1 minute ago, faraday said:

And Calley is still alive!

He's a year younger than me, but he did serve 3 years of house arrest for being involved in the murder of hundreds of civilians.

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Jane Fonda made a stand against the atrocities of war, get over it.

Why you seem to hate her so much, i can't understand.

no you don't understand and never will. 

Just now, Pilotman said:

no you don't understand and never will. 

You'd be better of directing your hate towards the warmongers like LBJ, Nixon and more recently the Bush's.

Cat Ballou.  I was a tender age when that movie came out, man did she look good!

 

 

A bit misguided and some terrible choices, but her heart was always in the right place. My favorite film was her first. I'd do her in a heartbeat. ????

 

 

16 hours ago, khwaibah said:

Never liked her politics BUT yes I would.????

Not now I wouldn't!

 

The war was a huge disaster for millions of people. But many stood up against the war including the students who were shot by the National Guard. Jane Fonda stood up for what she believed, much like you Pilotman fought for what you believed....and if you didn’t believe in it, why did you fight? I remember being on my British warship and reading on the noticeboard about America’s involvement in Vietnam, and wondering, “What the hell are they doing there?” None of it made any sense to me, and I was in my early twenties and probably not the smartest guy. Later I lived in America and one of the first things I observed was how stupid a lot of Americans were....at first I gave them the benefit of doubt, but after two years I came to the conclusion that they are stupid....not all, but a lot. Why, I asked myself? Probably the educational system and a country where life is very easy for the majority of people. But I’m open to other suggestions. I don’t see this level of stupidity in most western countries.

I doubt she'd be willing to get arrested nowadays with covid-19 everywhere.

18 hours ago, khwaibah said:

Never liked her politics BUT yes I would.????

would've

18 hours ago, Pilotman said:

A traitor to her own country during the Vietnam War and a disgrace in the eyes of all who served there.  Her unforgivable actions in Hanoi at the height of the War deserve our utter condemnation.     

I don't think that is true.

 

If the US had not backed the corrupt S Vietnam government, then there would not have been a war and hundreds of thousands of people would have lived. There were many other people who agreed with her.

 

It was a badly planned and executed war and many of those who were drafted left the US for other countries. Many who were drafted came back as mental and physical wrecks and some are still suffering now.

 

The US also illegally invaded Laos and introduced carpet bombing and agent "Orange" with many people still suffering from that today.

 

Not to mention Laos and the unexploded bombs and mines that still claim lives every day/week/month even 50 years later.

 

Can you explain the cost in money and lives that it cost and what the USA gained from it?

Hanoi Jane. A lying, treacherous bitch. Pass the vomit bucket.

Obviously the differences of opinion still exist today .  Those taking sides on this thread will never

come to an agreement.   I am surprised that this topic is allowed to go on,  as when I criticize some things about a certain government it is usually deleted.   

Many people have traumatic experiences from war that will never go away. These experiences breed a hate that never goes away...on both sides.  I personally can not

accept any excuse for fighting and wars.  But for sure , that will only change when we all destroy ourselves.   

 

7 hours ago, Pilotman said:

tell that to the hundreds of F105 and F4 pilots incarcerated by the animals in the Hanoi Hilton and only doing their duty to the best of their ability. 

You don't lack air, man!
What was the USA doing in this mess?
Since 1945, everywhere where you wanted to defend your freedom which is not that of the others you took a beating.

Yes, you got the French out and refused them the help they asked for during the siege of Dien Bien by making them understand that you, the USA, were going to show them what to do and how to do it.
We saw the result ..

Low profile, please /

6 hours ago, Mansell said:

Later I lived in America and one of the first things I observed was how stupid a lot of Americans were....at first I gave them the benefit of doubt, but after two years I came to the conclusion that they are stupid....not all, but a lot.

Some of the smart ones...... left !  That is how Rumak became a stranger  alien in a strange land  ????   

Many veterans refer to the Vietnam War as the Second IndoChina War.  The politicians tell the French government to get out of their colony would possibly have led to North and South Vietnam sorting out their differences alone.  I worked 18 months in the Headquarters Company of the 1st Aviation Brigade 1971 to 1972.  Oddly enough in my Honors history class in high school in 1967 we analyzed the origins and course of the struggle in Vietnam.  Our small number of 13 students voted to either go all out in the fight or just get out.  This was in 1967.

17 hours ago, giddyup said:

Support what, an unnecessary war? You want to talk atrocities, try My Lai.

You want to point fingers-Tet 1968.

16 hours ago, giddyup said:

He's a year younger than me, but he did serve 3 years of house arrest for being involved in the murder of hundreds of civilians.

That was the greatest obscenity of that incident, IMO. I saw a doco about it and happy to say that some of the men that perpetrated it were in a bad way psychologically.

However, send young men into an untenable situation and such atrocities are to be expected. They happen in every war, which is not to excuse them.

16 hours ago, giddyup said:

You'd be better of directing your hate towards the warmongers like LBJ, Nixon and more recently the Bush's.

You missed the worst one, IMO- Kissinger.

 

I disagree about LBJ. He was led around by the nose by the military, IMO. Was Westmoreland the worst US commander ever?

16 hours ago, Mansell said:

The war was a huge disaster for millions of people. But many stood up against the war including the students who were shot by the National Guard. Jane Fonda stood up for what she believed, much like you Pilotman fought for what you believed....and if you didn’t believe in it, why did you fight? I remember being on my British warship and reading on the noticeboard about America’s involvement in Vietnam, and wondering, “What the hell are they doing there?” None of it made any sense to me, and I was in my early twenties and probably not the smartest guy. Later I lived in America and one of the first things I observed was how stupid a lot of Americans were....at first I gave them the benefit of doubt, but after two years I came to the conclusion that they are stupid....not all, but a lot. Why, I asked myself? Probably the educational system and a country where life is very easy for the majority of people. But I’m open to other suggestions. I don’t see this level of stupidity in most western countries.

Vietnam was no more "stupid" than WW1 and Britain was in that right up to it's neck.

 

I don’t see this level of stupidity in most western countries.

LOL. Must be walking around with eyes closed, IMO.