Insurgents Burn Female Villager Alive

[ColPyat]

Well as a Muslim , i for one find there actions sick sad and disgusting ,And everything that has been done down south in the name of Islam.It has nothing to do with islam, and goes totaly against everything a Muslim should belive in.

I am not a pefect Muslim far from it ,But as i have said all the actions of a few so called Muslim, do not represent Islam ,or its teachings at all far from .And if those people really did know there Islam then they would know that the acts they are doing is totaly wrong and forbidden .InshAllah they will taste the fires of hel_l for what they have done to that poor girl.

And so do many Musims down South think as well, even many who do support the idea of separation/independence.

But that will not bring us any further to a solution, won't it?

[ourmanflint]

Where does Sharia and democracy stand in opposition?

Malaysia has some sort of democracy, which does work better than what we have as democracy in Thailand, and it still has Sharia law for its majority Muslim population.

I think you'll find that the imposition of Sharia law in Malaysia on non muslims is causing immense problems, problems that will only get worse in the coming years, the gradual erosion of secular law for the non muslim population can only cause more strife. While I respect that you know much more about the actual situation on the ground in Pattani, I wish you could see beyond that and look long term as to the outcome of your solution. I am not anti muslim, many of my friends are muslim, I almost married an Indonesian muslim girl, I am though, deeply against Islam as it is post Khomeini. I wish you would familiarise yourself with the changes it brought about, islam pre khomeini was much more tolerant.

Any chance of a separate state within Thailand that includes Islamic law as its guiding principle should be vociferously fought against by all Thais including Thai muslims, but unfortunately for them, Islam sometimes works in a similar way to the inquisition did. I am sure you would agree that many ordinary muslims in the south disagree with the so called insurgents, but even if they wanted, they could not speak out because it is un-islamic to do so. For them silence is the only option.

But silence is not the same as condoning the situation especially so in this case.

And I'm sorry that you think this is not about Islam, but about a separate state, it is most certainly not. It is about a separate Islamic state. You cannot keep the two apart.

[ColPyat]

And I'm sorry that you think this is not about Islam, but about a separate state, it is most certainly not. It is about a separate Islamic state. You cannot keep the two apart.

I do not claim any expertise on Islam.

I wonder though if anyone can. The bits i have read by experts are contradicting and often make very little sense. So far, i fail to see any Islamic scholar being involved in this debate, apart from self proclaimed experts mostly spreading primitive islamophobia.

Now, i do not say that there are many problems with present day Islam, but the biggest mistake is to simply generalize that Islam is now more intolerant, without taking in consideration that Christianity/The West is also not getting increasingly intolerant, and dominated by leaders that start wars based on fake evidence, and wars that make things worse.

Don't forget that initially the target of present day "terrorists" were not "infidels" but their own corrupt to the core leaderships. The west only came into the game by having supported those leaderships, after having used the Mujaheddin for the west's own goals.

And now, it is pretty clear to everyone, that failed wars in Iraq and Afghanistan do play into the hands of the most radical fundamentalists in many ways - as breeding grounds for recruits of the Islamic world who do see rightfully the terrible injustice that is happening there.

By the way, i am interested in how Sharia is imposed increasingly on non-Muslims in Malaysia, any links from reputable sources?

Anyhow, back to Thailand.

Down south, most Muslims i have met, actually all, have no sympathy for the insurgents action's, and some i have met were very clear in their support for independence/autonomy. Some of them have said that they would have no problems i the insurgents only would attack security forces, and leave schools/civilians alone. Most have said that the actions of the insurgents are clearly against Islam, because the conditions of the South so not warrant Jihad. A good friend of mine, who is strict Wahabi Muslim, said that clearly the conditions for jihad are not given as the Thai state does not hinder Muslims in the religious practice. He also said that he does not believe that Wahabis are involved in the insurgency, but old style Sunnies. He calls the insurgents as against Islam, uneducated people who are misled into doing terrible atrocities.

But then, of course, nobody who sympathizes with the insurgents would openly say so, and i doubt that i would meet them that easily.

But yes, most Muslims i have been in contact with have clearly spoken out against the atrocities. The problem though is, that this is a propaganda war. Insurgents dress up as security forced when staging attacks, and villagers will not know the difference between insurgents and security forces. he big problem is that in the past definitely members of security forces have committed atrocities, this is documented. And now there are suspicions that this still might be happening. Whatever, the problem is that it is often impossible to get proof either way. And the insurgents are still leading the propaganda war as well, are much faster than the security forces with distributing information. This should also show that we are not dealing here with "primitive cowards", but very well organized and highly capable forces.

This is not a war that can possibly be won by brute force by either side. Other, similar insurgencies have shown that. And even when highly modern armies are involved, such as in Iraq, they still cannot win. You may shout for how long you want that they have to fought against, but when there is no solution in sight how to win other than by compromising than logically it has to be done by negotiations and a compromise. Especially when there is a precedent of a very recent similar, and on many fronts related insurgency that was solved by a compromise.

Who knows, maybe autonomy might cause problems in the future, but we have a huge problem we have to deal with now, and here. So far, not one single similar insurgency has been suppressed by brute force - the nearly two decade old Kashmir conflict is still going on, Afghanistan is going on, Iraq is. Only one such insurgency i know has ended in peace - and that is Aceh.

And as long as there is no other solved insurgency - a similar solution to Aceh is the only option we have. Or do you want decades of "vociferous" fighting, atrocities, escalation? I don't.

[Mai Krap]

The latest from some of the characters that wear uniforms in the deep south. It is common knowledge that anyone considered scum in uniform was dumped on the south for years as a form of punishment. I for one would like to hear the full story on this latest drama but I doubt if anyone will ever know what the real deal is.

Army anti-narcotics agent held after deadly shootout

The major wounded during a police drug bust in Bangkok is an Army anti-narcotics agent running an illicit drug syndicate in the strife-torn South, Metropolitan Police chief Lt-General Adisorn Nonsee said yesterday.

Major Chanont Chinnawong and his alleged accomplices, Sukhum Juajaemjan and Withoon Niyakij, have been charged with possessing drugs with intent to sell, murder of an officer on duty, attempted murder of officers on duty and possession of firearms without a permit. This combination of offences carries the death penalty.

A gunfight on Wednesday night in the Living Room Apartments in Din Daeng district saw two detectives killed - Lance Corporal Sawai Arjnongwa, who died at the scene, and Sgt-Major Manoj Srilakhorn, who was pronounced dead after undergoing brain surgery.

Phanom La-orthae, a fourth suspect, was shot dead and found lying on the balcony of room 305 of the building. Lieutenant Sarit Aksorn, who took part in the bust, was wounded during the gunfight but is now out of intensive care.

The four police are part of an anti-narcotics team attached to the investigation subdivision under Metropolitan Police Division 1. The raid was carried out with the help of Din Daeng police.

Adisorn said Chanont had long trafficked drugs in Pattani and neighbouring Yala and Narathiwat provinces, capitalising on his expertise and status as a military narcotics suppression officer.

Chanont was familiar with the three provinces and always talked himself out of vehicle searches at police checkpoints every time he was pulled over, Adisorn said.

Supreme Commander General Bunsrang Niampradit said a military investigation had been ordered into Chanont's dealings and he would face both disciplinary and criminal punishment if found guilty.

Chanont is now under heavy police guard in Police General Hospital.

[PhilHarries]

I do agree with your addition of "lack of knowledge" (education) into the equation which is why the insurgents target schools and teachers. Keep the people uneducated and they'll follow your every word blindly. Also the insurgents, like the IRA, have a preference for soft targets.

Yes, "soft targets" are an integral part of an insurgency against a superior opponent.

And no, the problem with burning of schools is a bit more complex. Thai schools teach nationalism and edited history from a very early age on, and in the views of the insurgents that resulted in a loss of cultural identity of the Muslim population.

Read the paper i have recommended a few pages ago, please.

Apologies for missing that reference, it kinda got obscured by the jihadic smokescreen. I saw nothing about the nationalistic curriculum of Thai schools in the south but may have missed it as it was late when I got round to reading the paper. However it did make reference to abuse of Islamic teachers and the dismemberment of Islamic education.

State killings of ustaz and Islamic teachers continued

documentations of alledged drug dealers continued with the criminalisation of Islamic teachers

The recent efforts of politicians of the ruling Thai-Rak-Thai party (paper written in 2005) to close all pondoks (Islamic schools) indicates growing chauvinism within parts of the government

So it would appear that the targetting of Thai Bhuddist schools is more revenge than anything else. Typical fanatical response ignoring the "two wrongs do not make a right" principle.

But the most telling statement is the last sentence.

Only if the government is prepared to change sides, peace is to come back to Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat.

Which brings us back to my earlier reference to the northern Ireland peace process.

But the whole crux of the matter is that the insurgents are increasingly desperate to create widespread civil unrest in the south which is why they stoop to such despicable acts as mudering an innocent woman. The same mindset lies behind the 9/11 attacks, to provoke a major reaction and convince muslims that western civilisation is waging a 21st century crusade against Islam.

[mikethevigoman]

Insurgents burn female villager alive

(BangkokPost.com) - Unrest in the deep South continues as a female Buddhist was burnt alive while a few others were injured from a bomb used against a passenger van in two separate incidents on Wednesday morning.

Police said insurgents shot Patcharaporn Boonsamas, 25, off her motorcycle as she was riding to her office in Yala town around 8 a.m. Then, although she was apparently still alive but badly wounded, they set fire to her body, completely burning it.

When police arrived they could not even identify the gender of the remains because it was so badly burnt. However, the victim's relatives appeared at the scene and claimed her body.

The attack took place in the populated municipal district, but villagers living nearby saw nothing at all, and were unable to help police with their investigation.

In Pattani's Yarang district, separatists blasted a van belonging to the Revenue Department, injuring at least two of the five passengers.

The explosion took place at around 8.10 a.m. while the van carrying state officials was heading from Yala to the Revenue Department office in Pattani.

Scary to be in the same counry with these people, what with these extremists and bus drivers the population must be on the decline !.

[mikethevigoman]

I am going to go down there like I said; I will get my own info. I know you have been around the block a bit ColPyat so don't seem so shocked that you are rattling some cages here.

You chose a thread about the unthinkable violent and senseless death of an innocent office girl, to begin a diatribe about the potential merits of Sharia law in Southern Thailand; a concept that in itself is heinous and despicable. And you top it up with indifference (nearly approval) of the suffering of others who are now being marginalized beyond anything any Thai Muslim had to face.

Why don't you just wear a big kick me sign. You are poking a salty finger in some pretty raw wounds. If you are going to be the self appointed man on the street for Yala, at least find a diplomatic tack.

I am tired of the idiotic tit for tat.

One friendly advice though - when you go down there, i would hide some of your bigoted opinions on Islam and Muslims you voiced here, because at the present climate - this can get you killed in the wrong place easily. And that counts also when you meet ordinary Buddhist villagers, Military and Police - because the last thing they need is some know-all trying to incense an anyhow explosive situation.

YES ITS A SHAME THE NON VIOLENT CANT VOICE THEIR OPINIONS LIKE THESE PEOPLE !

[mikethevigoman]

And there are "religious leaders" that condone this.

What kind of person could even think of such a thing.

My personal opinion of muslims can't be posted here.

I realize that it's a small percentage that are radicals.....but why does the majority remain silent?

There are big protests when an "insurgent" or sympathizer gets arrested or killed, Where is the uproar from "good" muslims when something like this happens?

Why aren't the clerics uniting against this sort of behavior?

Seems to me that their silence reflects their views.

Do these people get home at night and tell their family what a marvellous day murdering people they had,.... NOi dont undrstand it !

[mikethevigoman]

These people are not human.

They are animals.

They should be hunted to extinction.

buddhists are a peace loving people with a wonderful religion that they follow, and these muslims down there are killing them. in the most horrific way.

where's this going. ?

you having a laugh right thai buddist peace loving. not the ones in Samui. Muslim relegion is also a peacefull religion. good and bad in all religions

Muslim is a peaceful religion ? from what weve seen lets hope no one pisses them off then !

[ColPyat]

Apologies for missing that reference, it kinda got obscured by the jihadic smokescreen. I saw nothing about the nationalistic curriculum of Thai schools in the south but may have missed it as it was late when I got round to reading the paper.

I can recommend you another paper that goes into detail of the nationalistic education in the whole of Thailand, and why being a dusty historian is one of the most dangerous professions in Thailand:

'Problems in Contemporary Thai Nationalist Historiography', by Patrick Jory

This paper is not about the South, but a bit of lateral thinking should help to explain why especially in the South education poses particular problems.

But the whole crux of the matter is that the insurgents are increasingly desperate to create widespread civil unrest in the south which is why they stoop to such despicable acts as mudering an innocent woman. The same mindset lies behind the 9/11 attacks, to provoke a major reaction and convince muslims that western civilisation is waging a 21st century crusade against Islam.

Yes. And i find it amazing that some of our governments in the west have fallen into that trap and have therefore actually helped the cause of those extremists.

And it seems also that the insurgents in South Thailand will be successful in this.

This could all have been avoided...

[canuckamuck]

In the last fifty years most wars have denigrated into guerilla campaigns; big armies fighting little ones. Those without weapons have become expert in using unconventional techniques and the indiscriminate use of the non combatants (innocent people).

There was a day when a country would fight a country, troops would fight troops, and in the end a winner could be discerned.

It has since been made obvious that massive force is easily weakened by forces too small to be effectively fought. It’s like big ants and little ants, the little ants always win. Today if you can’t be a big ant you have to be a small one, being a small one means you have to put your humanity on a shelf and become a psychological weapon. There are no forbidden targets, no decorum, no honor, destroy everything until the enemy has lost the taste for battle. Become so odious that no one will attack you again. Become the most wretched of men, and you will defeat those who still cling to humanity. Those with actual legitimate governing authority are unable and unwilling to engage the tactics of the barbarians who have painted their souls black.

It is only those who are in contempt of everything valued by the outside world (Liberty, creativity, human rights, the world of the infidel), that can proceed to debase themselves in such a manner. No honor, no ethics, no moral compass. Eliminate the infidels, set up a religious fundamental government, and rule by the sword. No more creativity, no more critical discussions, women must be treated like sex offenders on parole. Democracy if allowed must be a pawn of the self-appointed; citizens must not be allowed to choose their destiny.

The regime that is attacking Thailand through its own people is not Islam. It is a faction that is double-crossing Islam, and it has a global objective; it is at war with civilization. Thailand is a very soft target. Whatever Islam was before; it does not seem to be in actual opposition to its radical components. This makes many people see Muslims as enablers of crimes against humanity. The onus is on them to distance themselves from obvious evil. If they won’t then they must carry that weight. If they opposed terrorism, we would see it in action, not just token comments. The radical wing appears to most to be the true heart of the masses.

The obvious solution to the crisis in the south would be the peaceful Muslims rising up and resisting the violent. Since this is unlikely, the next choices are either surrender a piece of Thailand to the war criminals, or engage them with the military. Neither solutions are appealing, but only a military solution will keep Thailand in a position to resist the next uprising.

It is possible that the time for military success has already passed. The only battle field left is Spiritual. Guard your hearts, seek the truth, stand for truth, and resist hate.

[taxexile]

a spot on and wonderfully written essay , i , for one , agree with every word of it.

[seagull]

a spot on and wonderfully written essay , i , for one , agree with every word of it.

And I, second you too. Well done, canuckamuck, no hush hush, but headlong into it.

[ColPyat]

The obvious solution to the crisis in the south would be the peaceful Muslims rising up and resisting the violent. Since this is unlikely, the next choices are either surrender a piece of Thailand to the war criminals, or engage them with the military. Neither solutions are appealing, but only a military solution will keep Thailand in a position to resist the next uprising.

It is possible that the time for military success has already passed. The only battle field left is Spiritual. Guard your hearts, seek the truth, stand for truth, and resist hate.

I try to ignore your diatribe about "honor in war", only i would suggest you read about wars such the 30 year war, and try to find me where there was any honor in. Raping and pillaging was also one of the spoils of war during the Roman times. Much honor in that. Atrocities are an integral part of war.

So, if i read you correctly - your solution to the southern crises is spiritual. Well, that is very helpful. Good luck in spreading your spirituality there. But take my previous advice, be very careful when you open your mouth - many opinions you voiced here in this thread will not be liked by anybody there, including many Buddhist villagers, Military, Police, and local Muslims. A soon as you bring "Islam" into your arguments you will be on very thin ground down there, and might be lucky to just be arrested by the authorities and thrown out for agitation, worst case scenario is that you will get killed.

As to "war criminals" you are in dire need to read up on Thai history, and the history of the region. Crimes and atrocities have not just been committed by the insurgents, but by the Thai state as well. This is one of the main reasons why the situation down there is so complex, and any solution so difficult.

The ironic part here is that the Thai government and military at least accepts those indisputable facts while you still refuse to.

May i point you to the article that Mai Krap has posted on the involvement of security forces in crime there. This behavior, still ongoing, is a large part why the local Muslim population, even though being equally disgusted by the insurgent's atrocities, the largest part has difficulties to believe in the government's sincerity of solving the problems, and would prefer independence/autonomy. Another major reason is this government's inactivity to bring the responsible officers for Tak Bai to trial. This was an atrocity committed by the Thai state on the local Muslim population.

I have posted the name of a paper dealing directly with the southern situation. Have you taken the time to read it, or do you just prefer to argue from the position of mistaken righteous outrage, while ignoring facts that may force you to adapt a more multi layered position?

You said "but only a military solution will keep Thailand in a position to resist the next uprising". Can you explain to us how that military solution will look like. Strategies, aims, tactics, time frame, etc.?

Edited April 13, 2007 by ColPyat

[ColPyat]

a spot on and wonderfully written essay , i , for one , agree with every word of it.

Very telling that you agree with an "essay" of an author who has neither been in the region, nor has spent any time to read research or much news on it.

Why allow the truth to spoil a good story?

[taxexile]

Why allow the truth to spoil a good story?

canucks post addresses the wider issue of radical islam getting embroiled in local politics.

many people see the southern issue as part of that issue.

his post rings very true.

solving the local problem ( if its possible , and i dont think it is. ... it may calm down , but the problem will resurface , just as yugoslavia was torn apart 50 years down the line) will do nothing to address the wider issues of the aggressive aims of radical islam and until those issues are sorted out , then there will be continual smaller flashpoints wherever there is an islam population in a non-muslim country.

europe is next.

[Flysiam]

a spot on and wonderfully written essay , i , for one , agree with every word of it.

Very telling that you agree with an "essay" of an author who has neither been in the region, nor has spent any time to read research or much news on it.

Why allow the truth to spoil a good story?

I usually think Colpyat is aware of things in the Kingdom - but this goes beyond the borders of just Thailand. It is a world wide phenomenon that has raised its ugly head IN Thailand. One doesn't have to go to the South to be knowledgable of what is going on there. The 'essay' was indeed spot on. Forms and methodology of warfare have changed numerous times in history. This is not the conventional warfare the west , or many in Thailand, seems to think they can enjoy. If the people don't stand up against the vocal minority it will never end. If Muslims do not stand up against radical Islamists the world over then they will be thought to be as much a part of the problem and the crime and the horrors as those actually doing the inhuman acts. If they do not agree with the radicals then the war is waged upon them as well in a different sense - but they are cowards not to stand up against the evildoers and will have to take what is handed to them as a result. Part of that will be the hate and prejudice of the world.

If the majority of the population in the South do not like what is going on in their neighborhood , as you say. then they need to take a stand. If not then the south will be a war zone for a very long time I fear.

[ThaiGoon]

a spot on and wonderfully written essay , i , for one , agree with every word of it.

And I, second you too. Well done, canuckamuck, no hush hush, but headlong into it.

I agree. Well written, Canuckamuck.

[ColPyat]

Why allow the truth to spoil a good story?

canucks post addresses the wider issue of radical islam getting embroiled in local politics.

many people see the southern issue as part of that issue.

his post rings very true.

solving the local problem ( if its possible , and i dont think it is. ... it may calm down , but the problem will resurface , just as yugoslavia was torn apart 50 years down the line) will do nothing to address the wider issues of the aggressive aims of radical islam and until those issues are sorted out , then there will be continual smaller flashpoints wherever there is an islam population in a non-muslim country.

europe is next.

Rather interesting how you or cannuk claim to understand the "wider issue", while the real experts are churning out one contradicting paper after the other, and yet, the details of the southern insurgency, which is the topic of this thread, are completely ignored by ones such as you, because you have never bothered with the details.

The devil though lies in the detail. And if you have never bothered with the details of a single or better, several such situations, your "wider issue" will stay a nebulous and entirely faulty.

It "rings true", and "most people" - have we already reached already the point of last defense? Because we lack facts, knowledge and personal experience we have to employ the assistance of an imaginary majority which has as little clue of the details of the different insurgencies but believes things might be so because..., well, because why? Reason, research, evidence, proof?

His posts might ring true, because you share the same lack of knowledge, and the same ideology regrading those insurgencies. Not though because any of you have ever bothered to educate yourselves about this, the same way you definitely must have done in your professions. And unfortunately most people on both sides of the fence share these characteristics.

[Flysiam]

Rather interesting how you or cannuk claim to understand the "wider issue", while the real experts are churning out one contradicting paper after the other, and yet, the details of the southern insurgency, which is the topic of this thread, are completely ignored by ones such as you, because you have never bothered with the details.

The devil though lies in the detail. And if you have never bothered with the details of a single or better, several such situations, your "wider issue" will stay a nebulous and entirely faulty.

It "rings true", and "most people" - have we already reached already the point of last defense? Because we lack facts, knowledge and personal experience we have to employ the assistance of an imaginary majority which has as little clue of the details of the different insurgencies but believes things might be so because..., well, because why? Reason, research, evidence, proof?

His posts might ring true, because you share the same lack of knowledge, and the same ideology regrading those insurgencies. Not though because any of you have ever bothered to educate yourselves about this, the same way you definitely must have done in your professions. And unfortunately most people on both sides of the fence share these characteristics.

One may think as they choose. The post by canukamuck rings true because it is true. It cuts thtough all the Politically Correct BS that perpetuates conflicts. "Real experts' churn out contradicting papers but have anyof these so called experts done any good? Are we any closer to a resolution anywhere? I defy you to find many that have tried one of these alternate views - probably less popular because it might make someone stand up against 'one of their own.' If they showed some intestinal fortitude they may be surprised.

It appears to me that canukamuck does not have his head buried in the sand nor accepts things as they are but sees the forest in spite of the trees.

[taxexile]

and if i may be so bold as to ask , where does your understanding and knowledge come from , you reference various tracts , and say you have visited the area.

visited in what capacity ? , are you a soldier ,a military advisor , an ngo worker , a tourist who thinks he's an expert or an insurgent.

it seems that all those who dispute the word of the self claimed "fount of knowledge and keeper of the truth of all things southern" are just talking nonsense.

so please tell us exactly why your views are any more valid than the others.

[ColPyat]

I usually think Colpyat is aware of things in the Kingdom - but this goes beyond the borders of just Thailand. It is a world wide phenomenon that has raised its ugly head IN Thailand. One doesn't have to go to the South to be knowledgable of what is going on there.

Yes, it does go beyond the borders of the Kingdom. But not just in the way you suggest. Radical Islam was fueled and supported by the ones who now fight against it for their own reasons. Radical Islam popped up in areas in which previous dire injustices have been committed on the local population, and a few saw the only refuge and solution in Radical Islam.

But, as this is a board on Thailand, we should stay with Thailand. Analyzing the rise of radical Islam world wide is beyond the scope of this board, and only will end up in futility. Even the details of this particular insurgency here are difficult enough. Lets just try to stay with this, please. We can't be all over the place.

And even here the issue goes over the borders. Such as, that the Thai military has initially sold weapons to the GAM in Aceh when they were not used anymore in the Cambodian theater. Such as that there is beginning evidence that those weapons now make it back to the South here in Thailand. Such as both insurgents and corrupt elements of the Thai authorities are deeply involved in smuggling and other illicit business.

Strong words such as "cowards" (which they aren't - they are very well led insurgents who strategically commit atrocities against innocents, while at the same time ambush well armed security forces such as in one village in Narathivat where they have killed several Rangers in a daredevil attack) will not lead us any further.

Demanding that the Muslim population should stand up is easier said than done. Many do, and many get killed for this. More Muslims than Buddhists have been killed there. Another difficulty is that most may not agree with the atrocities of the insurgents, but do agree with the aims of separation. To convince them to now trust the government is a very difficult undertaking for the authorities. As you can see with the paper i have supplied - there is a well documented history of abuse by the authorities (which the government accepts, see the apology of Surayud).

From the distance things always sound so easy, but once you get closer you will understand that they are highly complex. Unfortunately i have not succeeded in this discussion to communicate this to many here.

[ColPyat]

visited in what capacity ?

No, you may not.

This is an issue of privacy, and unfortunately in this cyber world of slander against almost anybody who gives up his identity on the web i would prefer you do not ask me this question again, please.

[taxexile]

oh i see , its a case of "if i tell you i'll have to kill you" is it ?

[ColPyat]

oh i see , its a case of "if i tell you i'll have to kill you" is it ?

No, it's a case of my personal right to keep my identity and privacy to myself, which is also given to me clearly in the board rules. Please accept that.

[Flysiam]

visited in what capacity ?

No, you may not.

This is an issue of privacy, and unfortunately in this cyber world of slander against almost anybody who gives up his identity on the web i would prefer you do not ask me this question again, please.

If your capacities must remain so secretive - it would probably have behooved you to npt have ever posted on this or anyother site in relation to the topic. Credibility suffers otherwise .... maybe better to sit back and watch people make fools of themselves. But we thank you ( I do anyways) for making things much clearer

[taxexile]

i also thank him for his well thought out posts and comments , i dont dispute his knowledge , but i'm not in full agreement with his views.

[ColPyat]

visited in what capacity ?

No, you may not.

This is an issue of privacy, and unfortunately in this cyber world of slander against almost anybody who gives up his identity on the web i would prefer you do not ask me this question again, please.

If your capacities must remain so secretive - it would probably have behooved you to npt have ever posted on this or anyother site in relation to the topic. Credibility suffers otherwise .... maybe better to sit back and watch people make fools of themselves. But we thank you ( I do anyways) for making things much clearer

Again, they are not "secretive" - they are simply my personal affairs.

But yes, i may have made a mistake by trying to communicate some of my personal experiences and ideas based on reading on the situation in this place, so that people might get a clearer picture of what happens down there, especially because this now goes into personal matters that have nothing whatsoever to do anymore with the thread topic.

Debate the subject, please, but not the person behind the opinions voiced. You are free to disagree with me, but please stop this ill-mannered personal attacks that are going beyond the topic at hand. I have a right to my privacy. I divulge as much as i am willing to, but no more.

I believe you would demand the same respect here.

Edited April 13, 2007 by ColPyat

[ColPyat]

i also thank him for his well thought out posts and comments , i dont dispute his knowledge , but i'm not in full agreement with his views.

Thank you very much.

If we would all agree it would be a boring world.

[sbk]

Let me reiterate Colypat's statement, he has the right to refuse to give private details and if you will re read the forum rules will find this:

2) Posting another members personal details, photos or web site details is forbidden and will result in being banned.

Please refrain from pursuing this matter and return to the topic at hand, thank you