It's a little-known fact (because it was ignored by the mainstream media) that the status of virus was officially downgraded by the the nation's four public health authorities  a week BEFORE the the lock-down bill was approved by Parliament.

 

In a statement published on the NHS England website on March 19 they said COVID 19 was "no longer considered to be a High Consequence Infectious Disease (HCID)", and gave a variety of reasons for their opinion.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-DohJ16gO8&t=918s

 

With hindsight, should Boris he be commended or condemned for ignoring the advice of his public health "experts"? Either way, it's good news that he appears to be winning his personal battle against the virus.

Edited April 10, 20206 yr by Krataiboy

6 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Who the hell votes Tory? They are killing us. Austerity, universal credit, running down the NHS and now their response to covid19. STOP VOTING TORY.

and this is a party political broadcast for which party?

Do you have a better option in mind?

Corbin immediately refused to follow advice for the over 70s.

Farage bragged about leaving the house more often than the guidelines.

Sturgeons best mate the health minister was caught on holiday twice before being forced into resignation.

I could go on but it’s not fair to politicize this virus, just work above politics to defeat it.

Edited April 10, 20206 yr by twocatsmac

i sent emails to my MP in Uk in jan asking him to ban china hk flights and also sent to major newspapers .i asked they suspend flights for 2 mnths.no reply from govt.enough said.i was a long term hk and taiwan resident im trapped here at the moment but it could be worse.what we see is political ineptitude world wide,we are locked up here over 30 deaths in 3 mnths and millions are sacked with no support,health system thats not available to the majority of people and govt policies that actually herd people together instead of the opposite.govt worldwide is incompetent saving a few exceptions,taiwan is one and look at the WHO reaction to that??!we have little hope in govt and orgs helping us its sad.we must hope the virus dies off in the good weather as thats what seems to be the case here.hopefully theyll come to their senses and call off this hysterical nonsense. people are being threatened far more by poverty ,collapsing businesses ,unemployment etc than this virus which has killed less people in 3 mnths than die in one day on thai rds.how many have died of flu in thailand or UK over the same time period,i feel less than usual due to social distancing and masks.im getting tired of being told what to do by people that arnt qualified to mop out a toilet

6 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Who the hell votes Tory? They are killing us. Austerity, universal credit, running down the NHS and now their response to covid19. STOP VOTING TORY.

Is This not off topic?

33 minutes ago, twocatsmac said:

and this is a party political broadcast for which party?

Do you have a better option in mind?

Corbin immediately refused to follow advice for the over 70s.

Farage bragged about leaving the house more often than the guidelines.

Sturgeons best mate the health minister was caught on holiday twice before being forced into resignation.

I could go on but it’s not fair to politicize this virus, just work above politics to defeat it.

There is no Health Minister in Scotland (there is a Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport). However you are referring to the Chief Medical Officer, an apolitical position in the Civil Service which reports to the Chief Executive of the SNHS. 

7 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Who the hell votes Tory? They are killing us. Austerity, universal credit, running down the NHS and now their response to covid19. STOP VOTING TORY.

Bit late. 80 seat majority, and Boris Johnson's approval rating at a record 72%.

6 hours ago, andy72 said:

OF COURSE THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT GOING TO ADMIT MISTAKES

 

they never do no one does

yes, the uk was slow to act the whole world was slow to act and yes money was an overriding decision maker

 

what i cannot understand is why no one is trying any prophylactic on front line nhs 

yes we dont have a cure for covid

but we also do not have one for hiv but we do have a prophylactic that reduces risk

we have many anti viral agents that may or may not prohibit infection 

maybe thats what the anti malarial drug is all about

 

maybe they cannot publish because there would be an insane rush to try obtain it.

There are few anti viral drugs compared to anti bacterial (Anti biotic) drugs. There are reasons for this, viruses, present a more difficult target, there is no broad spectrum anti viral as there is for bacterial infections. Interferon, used in things like hep C was a go to medication for a long time, which worked by boosting the immune response.  I am sure that they are trying everything that they think might work, but as you will note with the common cold, and flu, we just let them work through the system, we have no ready cure, and these have been with us for untold centuries. Covid 19 is basically - as I read - just another sort of flu. 

 

What the anti malarial drug is all about certainly appears to be a twisted crook misusing his position to promote a totally unproven cure for his/his families financial benefit. Check the money the Trump family has invested in Sanofi. How did he getaway with keeping his tax returns hidden? The is a bigger smell of rats here than in the great plague.  

Edited April 10, 20206 yr by Nigel Garvie

Just took too long modeling it !!

9 hours ago, Dap said:

Always easy to say in hindsight   "We" equals you and the mouse in your pocket? And in that case, yes (we) could have done all of those things (stockpile PPE, food, extraneous supplies, etc). I might ask, why you didn't start (or ask those folks to start when you could obviously see it was necessary) all by yourself instead of waiting for someone else to do it? It's a rhetorical question (and by definition) no reply necessary.

I did.  Early on in the epidemic I stopped sitting close to anyone in the pub, stopped shaking hands in meetings, washing hands, tried to avoid touching my face. 

I am lucky that here in Malaysia the government imposed restrictions early, and we are currently suffering within our capabilities.  We could have done better, people may complain about the restrictions, but we have kept deaths to the several per day, not hundreds, and government is now looking at how to allow business to gradually resume without the virus running away.
 

I am doubly lucky that I have been able to work from home.  For the less technologically privileged, the restrictions are a dreadful hardship, and the sooner they were applied, the shorter they will be.

 

SC

The evidence of Johnson’s failed callous ‘herd immunity experiment’ is in plain sight, and nowhere summoned up better than his own words:

 

Boris Johnson appearing on This Morning on Thursday 5 March: “Well it’s a very, very important question, and that’s where a lot of the debate has been and one of the theories is, that perhaps you could take it on the chin, take it all in one go and allow the disease, as it were, to move through the population, without taking as many draconian measures.”

 

Those were is words and his actions/inaction followed that precisely until challenges by scientists outside the government’s circle were published and discussed in the nation’s media. Only then did Johnson U-Turn, the virus did not.

 

Tragically, the consequences of his stupidity are are being born by individuals and families across the nation.

 

Journalism that exposes Johnson’s failings in his response to the Pandemic is of course important and helpful to public understanding,  but what is required is a full, open and transparent public inquiry.

 

Unfortunately the Inquiries Act hands government the absolute authority to determine the scope and boundaries of public inquiries, the truth of the decisions behind Johnson’s failed callous ‘herd immunity experiment’ will almost certainly not surface while he remains in office.

On 4/10/2020 at 7:17 AM, Rookiescot said:

If the virus had started in the UK then I think the response of the government would have been explainable but when cases started to appear we already knew what was happening in countries like China and Italy.

The measures in place now could have and should have been brought in when the first cases were found. Johnson however decided that a policy of allowing the virus to spread so a "herd immunity" could be built up.

Johnson has handled this crisis very poorly.

You must let me know where you obtained your crystal ball seeing that we won't know which country had the best response to the crisis until after the virus has been eradicated. I have the feeling that it isn't even half-time yet. <SNIP>

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The evidence of Johnson’s failed callous ‘herd immunity experiment’ is in plain sight, and nowhere summoned up better than his own words:

 

Boris Johnson appearing on This Morning on Thursday 5 March: “Well it’s a very, very important question, and that’s where a lot of the debate has been and one of the theories is, that perhaps you could take it on the chin, take it all in one go and allow the disease, as it were, to move through the population, without taking as many draconian measures.”

 

Those were is words and his actions/inaction followed that precisely until challenges by scientists outside the government’s circle were published and discussed in the nation’s media. Only then did Johnson U-Turn, the virus did not.

 

Tragically, the consequences of his stupidity are are being born by individuals and families across the nation.

 

Journalism that exposes Johnson’s failings in his response to the Pandemic is of course important and helpful to public understanding,  but what is required is a full, open and transparent public inquiry.

 

Unfortunately the Inquiries Act hands government the absolute authority to determine the scope and boundaries of public inquiries, the truth of the decisions behind Johnson’s failed callous ‘herd immunity experiment’ will almost certainly not surface while he remains in office.

Do you not understand that Johnson was acting on the advice from his so called experts  Whitty & Vallance who are the guilty persons steering a bum deal , taking an arrogant stance and ignoring the methods of South Korea & China . Twas only the intervention of 250 fellow scientists , mathematicians and micro biologists that stopped the original strategy . In  hindsight the UK were slow out of the blocks and I suspect that somewhere in the mix lies the certain Dominic Cummings . Lives have been lost that may have been saved and there has to be an inquiry into the " Herd immunity "  theory because that sounds as if they were prepared to let many people die with only the fittest to survive , could say premeditated manslaughter . However do not shoot the messenger cos that was the badly advised BL and this topic should not have political overtones that I am sensing .

Edited April 11, 20206 yr by superal
spelling mistake

21 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Ill thought-out nonsense dressed up as condescending pap. 

 

We have a central government specifically to perform the functions you suggest. We pay them to do the very thing at which they have so spectacularly failed. 

 

Once this is over, there must be a thorough and transparent inquiry to understand why our government has failed us so badly. The individuals responsible must own their failure publicly. 

"The individuals responsible must own their failure publicly." 

As it should (always) be! ... but I wouldn't hold my breath. 

20 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

I did.

I was right.

In which case, I certainly tip my hat to ya  I did as well 

13 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

I did.  Early on in the epidemic I stopped sitting close to anyone in the pub, stopped shaking hands in meetings, washing hands, tried to avoid touching my face. 

I am lucky that here in Malaysia the government imposed restrictions early, and we are currently suffering within our capabilities.  We could have done better, people may complain about the restrictions, but we have kept deaths to the several per day, not hundreds, and government is now looking at how to allow business to gradually resume without the virus running away.
 

I am doubly lucky that I have been able to work from home.  For the less technologically privileged, the restrictions are a dreadful hardship, and the sooner they were applied, the shorter they will be.

 

SC

And after reading your input here on TVF for more than several years StreetCowboy I am not surprised at all and I tip my hat to ya'.

The folks that used their common sense and followed the simple directions are and will be ahead of the game in most cases. There is absolutely nothing easy about this situation but we can all make it a bit less lengthy if we all think of each other and apply the required effort. 

15 minutes ago, Dap said:

And after reading your input here on TVF for more than several years StreetCowboy I am not surprised at all and I tip my hat to ya'.

The folks that used their common sense and followed the simple directions are and will be ahead of the game in most cases. There is absolutely nothing easy about this situation but we can all make it a bit less lengthy if we all think of each other and apply the required effort. 

To be honest, we should probably all do that all the time - avoid close contact with strangers, avoid touching one another, because in this interconnected world, herd immunity no longer works - we are all exposed to disease threats from outside our own herd. -  Whether it be COVID-19, or the strain of flu or common cold from the other side of the world.

 

On 4/10/2020 at 11:34 AM, Surelynot said:

Who the hell votes Tory? They are killing us. Austerity, universal credit, running down the NHS and now their response to covid19. STOP VOTING TORY.

How odd that you should bring this up now, 4 months after the election.  I don't remember you shouting vote Labour before the last election.

 

I just did a quick Google search and came up with this.

 

I don't know who the other 13,966,453 people are but I voted Tory. Do you truly believe that if Labour had won everything would be sweetness and roses and Covid-19 would never have hit the UK?

 

Democracy is the art of accepting that your party lost and working on improving it in time for the next election.

 

I would assume that the voters looked at the political parties and their policies but a great number of previous Labour supporters voted Tory this time.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election#Full_results

 

Political party		Leader	Candidates	MPs[315]					Votes
				Total	Gained	Lost	Net	Of total (%)	Total	Of total (%)	Change (%)
	Conservative	Boris Johnson	635	365	58	10	48	56.2	13,966,454	43.6	+1.2
	Labour	Jeremy Corbyn	631	202	1	61	60	31.1	10,269,051	32.1	−7.9
	Liberal Democrats	Jo Swinson	611	11	3	4	1	1.7	3,696,419	11.5	+4.2
	SNP	Nicola Sturgeon	59	48	14	1	13	7.4	1,242,380	3.9	+0.8
	Green	Siân Berry and Jonathan Bartley	472	1	0	0	0	0.2	835,579	2.7	+1.1
	Brexit Party	Nigel Farage	275						644,257	2.0	New
	DUP	Arlene Foster	17	8	0	2	2	1.2	244,128	0.8	−0.1
	Sinn Féin	Mary Lou McDonald	15	7	1	1	0	1.1	181,853	0.6	−0.2
	Plaid Cymru	Adam Price	36	4	0	0	0	0.6	153,265	0.5	0.0
	Alliance	Naomi Long	18	1	1	0	1	0.2	134,115	0.4	+0.2
	SDLP	Colum Eastwood	15	2	2	0	2	0.3	118,737	0.4	+0.1
	UUP	Steve Aiken	16						93,123	0.3	0.0
	Yorkshire Party	Christopher Whitwood	28						29,201	0.1	0.0
	Scottish Green	Patrick Harvie & Lorna Slater	22						28,122	0.1
	Speaker	Lindsay Hoyle	1	1				0.2	26,831	0.1	0.0
	UKIP	Patricia Mountain (interim)	44						22,817	0.1	−1.8
	Ashfield Independents	Jason Zadrozny	1						13,498	0.0	0.0
	Liberal	Steve Radford	19						10,876	0.0	0.0
	The Independent Group for Change	Anna Soubry	3						10,006	0.0	New
	Aontú	Peadar Tóibín	7						9,814	0.0	New
	Monster Raving Loony	Howling Laud Hope	24						9,739	0.0	0.0
	People Before Profit	Collective	2						7,526	0.0
	Birkenhead Social Justice	Frank Field	1						7,285	0.0	New
	Christian Peoples Alliance	Sidney Cordle	27						6,486	0.0	0.0
	Heavy Woollen Independents	Aleksandar Lukic	1						6,423	0.0
	SDP	William Clouston	20						3,295	0.0	0.0
	Animal Welfare	Vanessa Hudson	6						3,086	0.0	0.0
	North East Party	Mark Burdon	2						2,637	0.0
	Lincolnshire Independent	Marianne Overton	1						1,999	0.0	N/A
	Green (NI)	Clare Bailey	3						1,996	0.0
	English Democrat	Robin Tilbrook	4						1,987	0.0	0.0
	Libertarian	Adam Brown	5						1,780	0.0	0.0
	Mebyon Kernow	Dick Cole	1						1,660	0.0	0.0
	Proud of Oldham and Saddleworth	Paul Errock	2						1,606	0.0	New
	Independent Network	Ian Stephens	1						1,542	0.0	New
	Gwlad Gwlad	Gwyn Wigley Evans	3						1,515	0.0	New
	Cynon Valley	Andrew Chainey	1						1,322	0.0
	Veterans and People's	Robin Horsfall	2						1,219	0.0
	Burnley and Padiham Party	Mark Payne	1						1,162	0.0
	Shropshire Party	Robert Jones	1						1,141	0.0
	Putting Cumbria First	Jonathan Davies	1						1,070	0.0
	Peace	John Morris	2						960	0.0
	Wycombe Independents	Matt Knight	1						926	0.0
	Justice & Anti-Corruption	Donald Jerrard	3						728	0.0
	Christian	Jeff Green	2						705	0.0	0.0
	Renew	Julie Girling	4						545	0.0	New
	Workers Revolutionary	Joshua Ogunleye	5						524	0.0	0.0
	BNP	Adam Walker	1						510	0.0	0.0

8 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

To be honest, we should probably all do that all the time - avoid close contact with strangers, avoid touching one another, because in this interconnected world, herd immunity no longer works - we are all exposed to disease threats from outside our own herd. -  Whether it be COVID-19, or the strain of flu or common cold from the other side of the world.

 

Agreed 100% 

Perhaps Reuters should take over running the national response to the Covid 19 epidemic, rather than the government (who quite disgracefully does not seem to include a single viral epidemiologist amongst it's senior ministers) and has had instead to rely upon the advice of experts?

Edited April 11, 20206 yr by JAG

1 hour ago, JAG said:

Perhaps Reuters should take over running the national response to the Covid 19 epidemic, rather than the government (who quite disgracefully does not seem to include a single viral epidemiologist amongst it's senior ministers) and has had instead to rely upon the advice of experts?

Perhaps the government should do their job and journalists should do their job and continue to report on what government are/are not doing.

34 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Perhaps the government should do their job and journalists should do their job and continue to report on what government are/are not doing.

On a day when number of UK deaths was a whisker away from four figures, our journalists show clearly what they believe their job to be - splashing the news that the chief proponent of this horribly failed strategy is watching Lord of the Rings and talking to people, while they carefully minimise the true extent of what every vote cast for the Nasty Party has generated. 

Edited April 11, 20206 yr by RuamRudy

On 4/10/2020 at 9:24 AM, RuamRudy said:

Ill thought-out nonsense dressed up as condescending pap. 

 

We have a central government specifically to perform the functions you suggest. We pay them to do the very thing at which they have so spectacularly failed. 

 

Once this is over, there must be a thorough and transparent inquiry to understand why our government has failed us so badly. The individuals responsible must own their failure publicly. 

As I understand it all 4 UK governments work together on the Covid 19 strategy - it's a 4 Nation Action Plan. The Scottish and Welsh governments, plus the NI assembly all work together with Westminster on this. 

So I hope you include Sturgeon in your list of those responsible. 

On 4/10/2020 at 9:54 AM, stevenl said:

Nonsense. WHO issued a pandemic warning in January, nothing was done by the western countries, some even still downplaying, till mid march.

A fair point, but I suspect this is because previous WHO predicted pandemics (SARS etc.) turned out to be pretty insignificant in those western countries. Western governments will no doubt take the next pandemic warning much more seriously. 

12 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

As I understand it all 4 UK governments work together on the Covid 19 strategy - it's a 4 Nation Action Plan. The Scottish and Welsh governments, plus the NI assembly all work together with Westminster on this. 

So I hope you include Sturgeon in your list of those responsible. 

Certainly the Scottish Government moved a little earlier than England in terms of imposing a lockdown, but I feel they waited much too long to recognise that there was no sign of sensible leadership from Westminster. It was obvious to all and sundry that the Tories were in a mix of denial and disarray long before they initiated the current measures. The SG should have declared a public health emergency long ago, and ripped up the devolution agreement that restricts their efforts.

 

It was only a few grim weeks ago we were collectively watching what was happening in Italy with a mix of confusion and horror - and we are now in a worse state than they ever were because Westminster failed totally, and our devolved governments also failed by waiteing too long to deal with that.

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Certainly the Scottish Government moved a little earlier than England in terms of imposing a lockdown, but I feel they waited much too long to recognise that there was no sign of sensible leadership from Westminster. It was obvious to all and sundry that the Tories were in a mix of denial and disarray long before they initiated the current measures. The SG should have declared a public health emergency long ago, and ripped up the devolution agreement that restricts their efforts.

 

It was only a few grim weeks ago we were collectively watching what was happening in Italy with a mix of confusion and horror - and we are now in a worse state than they ever were because Westminster failed totally, and our devolved governments also failed by waiteing too long to deal with that.

Ok, so you agree the SNP are pretty much fully aligned with the Westminster Covid 19 strategy, and so the SNP are just as culpable. 

 

And as terrible as the death toll is in the UK, we are certainly not in a worse position than Italy was 2 weeks ago (which is how far behind we are from Italy, apparently). Their hospitals were massively overwhelmed at that stage. 

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The evidence of Johnson’s failed callous ‘herd immunity experiment’ is in plain sight, and nowhere summoned up better than his own words:

 

Boris Johnson appearing on This Morning on Thursday 5 March: “Well it’s a very, very important question, and that’s where a lot of the debate has been and one of the theories is, that perhaps you could take it on the chin, take it all in one go and allow the disease, as it were, to move through the population, without taking as many draconian measures.”

You are a victim of fake news I'm afraid. Make sure you check your facts. 

 

Boris Johnson’s position on coronavirus has been misrepresented by an out of context clip – and it must stop

Fake news merchants on the cesspit that is Twitter are distributing a clip of the Prime Minister from ITV’s This Morning last week.

He is not for a second saying that the government’s plan is to take it on the chin, but simply it’s a theory that is being debated by others.

Boris was answering a question to him put by the presenter Phillip Schofield

Crucially after the fake news clip, he clarifies the government’s position further.

He says: “I think we need to strike a balance. I think it's very important, we've got a fantastic NHS. We'll give them all the support that they need. We'll make sure that they have all the preparations all the kit that they need for us to get through it but I think it would be better if we take all the measures that we can now just to stop the peak of the disease being as difficult for the NHS as it would. I think there are things that we may be able to do.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11142020/boris-johnsons-coronavirus-misrepresented-out-of-context-clip/

 

 

22 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Ok, so you agree the SNP are pretty much fully aligned with the Westminster Covid 19 strategy, and so the SNP are just as culpable. 

 

And as terrible as the death toll is in the UK, we are certainly not in a worse position than Italy was 2 weeks ago (which is how far behind we are from Italy, apparently). Their hospitals were massively overwhelmed at that stage. 

As I understand it, our hospitals are overwhelmed. Certainly the reports I read suggest this to be the case. Our daily death toll appears to be continuing to rise and has now overtaken the peak of Italy's deaths. This is from the BBC today:

 

There is no hiding from the fact that the latest announcement of 980 new UK deaths has surpassed Italy and Spain's worst days during this pandemic. ...While these two countries are now seeing daily death figures coming down, the UK's have been closing in on 1,000 for several days - and the true death toll is likely to be higher once deaths not yet reported have been added in.

 

I am not fully conversant with the devolution of the overriding strategy, but I believe there is a unified UK response defined at Westminster level, with strategic implementation in Wales, NI and Scotland devolved to their respective administrations. But if any leader in any location failed at any stage, I would expect that they would be challenged openly and critically. 

On 4/10/2020 at 4:19 AM, Enoon said:

Quite common for Britain to start off its wars with ineptitude, retreats and disasters.

Don't know about that.

 

Whatever, Britain will probably end up leading the world out of the mire and show the way as it has done countless times.

Coronavirus vaccine could be ready by September 

The TIMES 

Edited April 11, 20206 yr by daveAustin

21 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

As I understand it, our hospitals are overwhelmed. Certainly the reports I read suggest this to be the case. Our daily death toll appears to be continuing to rise and has now overtaken the peak of Italy's deaths. This is from the BBC today:

 

There is no hiding from the fact that the latest announcement of 980 new UK deaths has surpassed Italy and Spain's worst days during this pandemic. ...While these two countries are now seeing daily death figures coming down, the UK's have been closing in on 1,000 for several days - and the true death toll is likely to be higher once deaths not yet reported have been added in.

 

I am not fully conversant with the devolution of the overriding strategy, but I believe there is a unified UK response defined at Westminster level, with strategic implementation in Wales, NI and Scotland devolved to their respective administrations. But if any leader in any location failed at any stage, I would expect that they would be challenged openly and critically. 

I agree that the UK daily death toll is alarmingly high. There is always a lag in the numbers though, so let's hope the effects of our lockdown start to kick in over the next week or so. 

 

And the pictures we saw in Italy with ICU's turning away patients, and patients on trolleys in the streets haven't been seen in the UK yet. And yes, NHS staff are overwhelmed, but there is ICU capacity available in the UK with the Nightingale and the other temporary hospitals being constructed in anticipation. 

 

The COBRA meetings where strategy is discussed and devised include the 3 devolved governments. After each meeting representatives of those devolved governments make a statement to their respective nations. Those statements have so far supported the agreed strategy. This is something I've found quite refreshing, the unity across the 4 nations. 

 

11 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

Don't know about that.

 

Whatever, Britain will probably end up leading the world out of the mire and show the way as it has done countless times.

Coronavirus vaccine could be ready by September 

The TIMES 

That is the Times you are quoting, owned - like the Sun - by Rup the antichrist. 

 

Coronavirus vaccine could be ready by September - standard medical opinion is 18 month for a vaccine. Note the could, an elephant COULD drop out off the sky and crush your car, try that on the insurance company!