China's blame game doesn't solve anything.

[The Word]

1 hour ago, Liverpoolfan said:

I don't care who is responsible for when these kind of catastrophes take place.

But I do care when the blame is systematically shifted onto others

Who has China shifted the blame to for the Covid-19 pandemic, are there some specifics out there showing that?   I haven't seen any.

[WineOh]

2 minutes ago, The Word said:

Who has China shifted the blame to for the Covid-19 pandemic, are there some specifics out there showing that?   I haven't seen any.

The evidence is everywhere mate.

Just look for it.

And no, I'm not about to do the leg work for you...

[garrya]

Some of us, westerners, are just so bl..dy naive that it's hard to believe it.

You can blame China for this and that. Right.

Which countries have been bombing and killing civilians, fabricating reasons for attacks and imposing restrictions on nations causing serious issues for the local populations in the last few decades?

I am white, have lived in the UK, and I have  to say that I encountered more racism there than anywhere else in my life. (I haven't been to China yet.) I had never felt welcome even though I have been speaking impeccable English since my childhood with no funny accent. I have never felt this towards me in other countries in Europe. 

On another note, American and British politicians are the biggest liars and two-faced crooks the one may find on the planet. Of course, those rose-tinted glasses must be removed to see this.

 

And as for the origin of the virus? LOL.

I am yet to see the news that anybody has ever found the Covid anywhere in the wildlife of China. Don't you think they don't know where the animals that were sold at the Wuhan wet market originated from? Not a single virus was found. 

 

We, common Joes, will never be told the truth, so there is no point in making  conclusion on news that we get from western mainstream media LOL.

 

And the WHO? Well, another useless body with no power over any countries. 

[ThailandRyan]

7 minutes ago, garrya said:

Some of us, westerners, are just so bl..dy naive that it's hard to believe it.

You can blame China for this and that. Right.

Which countries have been bombing and killing civilians, fabricating reasons for attacks and imposing restrictions on nations causing serious issues for the local populations in the last few decades?

I am white, have lived in the UK, and I have  to say that I encountered more racism there than anywhere else in my life. (I haven't been to China yet.) I had never felt welcome even though I have been speaking impeccable English since my childhood with no funny accent. I have never felt this towards me in other countries in Europe. 

On another note, American and British politicians are the biggest liars and two-faced crooks the one may find on the planet. Of course, those rose-tinted glasses must be removed to see this.

 

And as for the origin of the virus? LOL.

I am yet to see the news that anybody has ever found the Covid anywhere in the wildlife of China. Don't you think they don't know where the animals that were sold at the Wuhan wet market originated from? Not a single virus was found. 

 

We, common Joes, will never be told the truth, so there is no point in making  conclusion on news that we get from western mainstream media LOL.

 

And the WHO? Well, another useless body with no power over any countries. 

Bats, it was the Bats man, not Batman...such a great cuisine, have you not heard, it was the first story out of China, that it came from a bat in the wet market in Wuhan....

 

https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/bat-virus-bioweapon-what-the-science-says-about-covid-19-origins/ar-BB12sMhR?li=BBr8Cnr

Edited April 12, 2020 by ThailandRyan

[Mrfox]

China is no means perfect on how it dealt with the outbreak initially, but that could local officials handling it badly, assuming everything we know, from western media are factuals. In any case, it worked closely with Who and provided warnings to the rest of the world. If you look at how Trump and its allies treated the situation as a "Chinese" problem (you can Google the time line of Trump and covid), then it is obvious the people you should be suing are its leaders and how it mishandled the whole thing. 

[The Word]

1 hour ago, Canuck1966 said:

Why???

3000 (allegedly died) out of 1.4 billion

That's a death rate of 0.000002142857

No country goes into crisis mode on those lies!

Never allowed any foreign assistance either , just lies and more lies

I agree that the apparent death rate is suspiciously low but you've slipped a couple of extra zeros into your percentage rate making your death rate 100 times lower based on your figures!

[WineOh]

6 minutes ago, garrya said:

Some of us, westerners, are just so bl..dy naive that it's hard to believe it.

You can blame China for this and that. Right.

Which countries have been bombing and killing civilians, fabricating reasons for attacks and imposing restrictions on nations causing serious issues for the local populations in the last few decades?

I am white, have lived in the UK, and I have  to say that I encountered more racism there than anywhere else in my life. (I haven't been to China yet.) I had never felt welcome even though I have been speaking impeccable English since my childhood with no funny accent. I have never felt this towards me in other countries in Europe. 

On another note, American and British politicians are the biggest liars and two-faced crooks the one may find on the planet. Of course, those rose-tinted glasses must be removed to see this.

 

And as for the origin of the virus? LOL.

I am yet to see the news that anybody has ever found the Covid anywhere in the wildlife of China. Don't you think they don't know where the animals that were sold at the Wuhan wet market originated from? Not a single virus was found. 

 

We, common Joes, will never be told the truth, so there is no point in making  conclusion on news that we get from western mainstream media LOL.

 

And the WHO? Well, another useless body with no power over any countries. 

Luckily for us there are those out there dissecting fake news stories and printing only hard facts.

It's just a shame that many of the public still don't know how/refuse to find them. 

Sad indeed.

[garrya]

5 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Bats, it was the Bats man, not Batman...such a great cuisine, have you not heard, it was the first story out of China, that it came from a bat in the wet market in Wuhan....

Bats, and pangolins, and snakes .... and.... still no Covid virus was found in a single animal in China. LOL

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by garrya

[gearbox]

2 hours ago, Mulambana said:

Why they will compensate Wetern countries who are repsonsible for this panedmic due to incompetacies of their leaders and arrogancies of their people as they mostly suffer from Dunning-Kruger syndrome. What about South Korea, Taiwan, and to some extent Signapore and Japan who could contain it but no Western countries now want compensation for their leaders incompetancies and their people like Tom (truck driver), Dick (plumber), and Harry (brick layer)'s arrogancies as Tom, Dick and Harry keep on flaunting restrictions like wearing masks, avoid gatherings, going to condo swiming pool, not obeying social distancing, drinking beer in groups and on and on and on it went all night.

 

It is pointless to blame specific countries for pandemics. In today's interconnected world, a deadly virus can come from anywhere. The Chinese and Asians are eating wildlife probably for centuries, long ago before CCP was even conceived.

 

I think the current corona pandemics is a good thing in a way. It is a wake up call for the world to rearrange some priorities. Look at the HIV pandemics which was spread to the world from the US. 40 years later, the result is many millions deaths, and no vaccine. Surely it can be managed now, but the infected need to take medicines for the rest of their lives. The number of dead could be much higher if we had the same level of international travel as today.

 

Now imagine a virus spreading like covid19 and doing the same damage as HIV.  How many deaths would be and what would be the impact on the world? We are getting away lightly one more time.

 

The governments around the world have gone populist in recent times, and the priorities now are that Tom,Dick and Harry can always buy booze and fly to far away countries to bang whores.  Tom, Dick and Harry are often paid more than a molecular biologist with PhD degree. Well, the boomerang is flying back now.

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/we-were-so-close-three-potential-covid-19-vaccines-had-funding-cut-20200407-p54hw9.html

 

Look at this article, the funds mentioned are less than 100 millions. Now in Australia we are spending 200+ billions so the lower class can maintain "decent quality of life".

 

The West has messed its priorities and surrendered its technology advantage in the name of Tom,Dick and Harry.

[garrya]

Just now, Liverpoolfan said:

Luckily for us there are those out there dissecting fake news stories and printing only hard facts.

It's just a shame that many of the public still don't know how/refuse to find them. 

Sad indeed.

Oh my ... 

Hard facts about Covid. Where is that mate?

You made my day. No need to watch standup comedy for a few days now. 

Many thanks

 

 

[Mama Noodle]

2 hours ago, Mulambana said:

Why they will compensate Wetern countries who are repsonsible for this panedmic due to incompetacies of their leaders and arrogancies of their people as they mostly suffer from Dunning-Kruger syndrome.

 

Boggles the mind that someone actually thinks this way^

 

Western Countries are responsible for this pandemic???

 

There is only ONE country responsible for this global crash and the corpses stacking up, China. 

 

They silenced doctors, reporters, lied to the WHO, blocked every one of their billion citizens from using anything other than state sponsored and monitored social media while their own officials are stirring <deleted> on Twitter and Facebook. 

 

Unbelievable people can defend this reprehensible regime. And that's JUST concerning this current pandemic. Nevermind all the theft, intellectual property theft, fraud, monetary manipulation, patent theft.... I could do on for days. 

[The Word]

1 hour ago, ravip said:

Did the people who started the WW 1 & 2 pay compensation, let alone the other wars that destroyed countries and their innocent people?

Yes, reparations were paid.

[Mama Noodle]

3 minutes ago, gearbox said:

The Chinese and Asians are eating wildlife probably for centuries, long ago before CCP was even conceived.

 

Yeah and most of the sicknesses in recent memory have originated in China. Not all, but most. 

Anyone who wants to defend this reprehensible country needs their noggin examined and is due to have all this happen AGAIN and probably even worse next time. 

[garrya]

9 minutes ago, Mrfox said:

China is no means perfect on how it dealt with the outbreak initially, but that could local officials handling it badly, assuming everything we know, from western media are factuals. In any case, it worked closely with Who and provided warnings to the rest of the world. If you look at how Trump and its allies treated the situation as a "Chinese" problem (you can Google the time line of Trump and covid), then it is obvious the people you should be suing are its leaders and how it mishandled the whole thing. 

Well said. However, I believe, the incompetency on behalf of western countries was deliberate.

They simply wanted to slow down the virus and keep it at bay until it reaches 50-60% of the population to reach the so-called herd immunity. There is an interesting study from Germany dated on Apr 10 and it shows that 15% of the population of an area carried the antibodies already, but only 2% of the population was reported to be infected before that.

Of course, there is no system that can handle a brutal first wave of infection, but with clever planning it can be done.

Edited April 12, 2020 by garrya
typing error

[chessman]

Genuine question.

 

I have heard that in China there have been crazy conspiracy theories just as there have been in other countries. One of these theories is that the virus started in the USA.

 

but is there any evidence that the main news sources  in China are systematically promoting such theories? I had a quick look at an English language Chinese online newspaper. It had  ‘finger pointing is not the answer’ type stories and some slightly smug stories detailing the lack of proper preparation in Western countries but it was stating clearly and simply that the virus started in Wuhan.

 

anybody have anything?

[marqus12]

Both sides spread the same many lies.
The American and Chinese oligarchs are fighting for power, money

and the souls of cattle. It's a perception management operation.
There are no angels here, they are all evil and they want to arouse

the worst feelings in cattle.

 

[crobe]

I would rather doubt that there will be any reparations for this outbreak, although some countries may call for this.

What can be done, however, is to mitigate against this happening again.

It will be difficult for China to close down all the "wet" (live animal) markets as these are prevalent across the country in more rural areas, and so while this was almost certainly the source of the infection, it was exacerbated by officials trying to clamp down on people raising the alarm. This was not a top-down edict, but more the middle-level local officials assuming that they were acting in the communist party interests, and abusing their own power. 

This is a systemic fault within the structure in China.

 

The only way to stop this happening again is to have a system which bypasses this power structure - such as a WHO office in Beijing which is allowed autonomy, and which health professionals around the country could contact directly if they had concerns. There would need to be a lot of safeguards to ensure the state did not interfere, monitor or try to retaliate against those raising the concerns.

 

And why would a country such as China agree to a change to their structure which would cut the legs out from the authority of the communist party? Because uniquely at this time other governments have leverage.

At the present time there are travel restrictions across the world, and so these could remain in place for all Chinese nationals until and unless this structure has been implemented.

 

It could be argued that this is an extraordinary measure to take, but the damage of this infection has been extraordinary and cannot be repeated, and to the argument that this should not be imposed on China when other countries are responsible for outbreaks such as Ebola in DRC - to which the answer is, the same system can apply in other cases in other countries.

[Mama Noodle]

5 minutes ago, chessman said:

One of these theories is that the virus started in the USA.

 

One example is Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian and his Twitter account hes using to promote conspiracy theories in the USA. 

[The Word]

4 minutes ago, chessman said:

Genuine question.

 

I have heard that in China there have been crazy conspiracy theories just as there have been in other countries. One of these theories is that the virus started in the USA.

 

but is there any evidence that the main news sources  in China are systematically promoting such theories? I had a quick look at an English language Chinese online newspaper. It had  ‘finger pointing is not the answer’ type stories and some slightly smug stories detailing the lack of proper preparation in Western countries but it was stating clearly and simply that the virus started in Wuhan.

 

anybody have anything?

Good question.  One person here says he does but he won't say what it is, he wants others to do the leg work to prove that what he's claiming is uncorroborated, i.e. "yes, I have evidence but I won't tell you what it is"!

[GroveHillWanderer]

2 minutes ago, garrya said:

Bats, and pangolins, and snakes .... and.... still no virus found any a single animal. LOL

 

Studies by Chinese scientists show that bats in China have been found to harbour a coronavirus that is 96% the same as SARS-CoV-2. That strongly suggests (even if it doesn't definitively prove) that it's where the virus originated.

 

A pneumonia outbreak associated with a new coronavirus of probable bat origin

[Mama Noodle]

Just now, crobe said:

It will be difficult for China to close down all the "wet" (live animal) markets as these are prevalent across the country in more rural areas

 

Dont see how it would be hard, I mean just a couple years ago they managed to enforce a 1 child policy on over a billion people with the threat of government sterilization. 

 

And they did a very good job of it. 

Seems a minuscule issue to get people to stop eating live rare animals and frying dogs and cats alive. 

[WineOh]

2 minutes ago, The Word said:

Good question.  One person here says he does but he won't say what it is, he wants others to do the leg work to prove that what he's claiming is uncorroborated, i.e. "yes, I have evidence but I won't tell you what it is"!

it is completely pointless for me to even attempt to produce to you an article as evidence.

All you will do is claim it's a conspiracy by the west to undermine china.

 

I refuse to waste my time finding solid evidence for people who wish not to be educated. 

[Mama Noodle]

4 minutes ago, The Word said:

Good question.  One person here says he does but he won't say what it is, he wants others to do the leg work to prove that what he's claiming is uncorroborated, i.e. "yes, I have evidence but I won't tell you what it is"!

 

 

[garrya]

7 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Studies by Chinese scientists show that bats in China have been found to harbour a coronavirus that is 96% the same as SARS-CoV-2. That strongly suggests (even if it doesn't definitively prove) that it's where the virus originated.

 

A pneumonia outbreak associated with a new coronavirus of probable bat origin

the difference between coronaviruses is a little. 

So yes, it definitely doesn't prove anything. I am only 1 kg lighter and 1 cm shorter than my brother. That's 96% different.

 

So let's do it again. Have they found Covid in any other bats? Nope, but something similar.

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by garrya

[crobe]

13 minutes ago, chessman said:

Genuine question.

 

I have heard that in China there have been crazy conspiracy theories just as there have been in other countries. One of these theories is that the virus started in the USA.

 

but is there any evidence that the main news sources  in China are systematically promoting such theories? I had a quick look at an English language Chinese online newspaper. It had  ‘finger pointing is not the answer’ type stories and some slightly smug stories detailing the lack of proper preparation in Western countries but it was stating clearly and simply that the virus started in Wuhan.

 

anybody have anything?

Yes, the evidence is there - just google it for yourself - the conspiracy theory came from a Chinese official - Zhao Lijian.

 

"A Chinese government spokesman has tried to blame the US army for the deadly coronavirus outbreak, which was declared a pandemic by the World Health Organization this week.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian claimed Thursday that the US military might have brought the COVID-19 virus to the Chinese city of Wuhan, where the outbreak emerged in December"

 

Courtesy NY Times.

[ThailandRyan]

11 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Studies by Chinese scientists show that bats in China have been found to harbour a coronavirus that is 96% the same as SARS-CoV-2. That strongly suggests (even if it doesn't definitively prove) that it's where the virus originated.

 

A pneumonia outbreak associated with a new coronavirus of probable bat origin

From the article that I linked to in my earlier post:

The wildlife trade – and the associated wet markets where live animals and their meat are sold – has been pointed to as a likely platform for the emergence of Sars-CoV-2. This was the case in the Sars outbreak, caused by a coronavirus in 2003, where a bat virus is thought to have infected a civet cat, which in turn infected humans at a wet market.

"Live wild animal markets, such as the huge ‘wet’ markets in China, are ideal places for zoonotic virus emergence to occur,” Andrew Cunningham, deputy director of science at the Zoological Society of London said, pointing to the high number of animals from different species being kept closely together in "overcrowded and unhygienic conditions”.

While the wildlife trade creates interaction between humans and animals, it also provides an opportunity for viruses to move through populations of animals, mutating as it transmits through that population, or for a virus to recombine in species unnaturally brought into contact with one another.

 

While the outbreak of COVID-19 was centred around a wet market in Wuhan, several early patients did not have known links to that market, according to research published in The Lancet by doctors from Wuhan and Beijing. This could indicate that the virus was circulating between humans earlier or that people were also infected in another location.

It is also possible that humans could have been infected directly from bats, as opposed to through an intermediary animal, experts say.

But there are other kinds of people living near or working with wildlife on a regular basis who could have been infected besides bat researchers, according to Racaniello.

"[A virus related to Sars-CoV-2] might have infected someone outside the city; perhaps there were several short chains of infections before the virus reached Wuhan. One scenario that I like is that a farmer harvesting bat guano for fertiliser might have become infected,” he said.

Edited April 12, 2020 by ThailandRyan

[marqus12]

10 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

Dont see how it would be hard, I mean just a couple years ago they managed to enforce a 1 child policy on over a billion people with the threat of government sterilization. 

 

And they did a very good job of it. 

From what I once read it is a Ford Foundation, a Rockefeller Foundation
who actively encouraged / lobbied / sponsored such a policy in China and India.

[sqwakvfr]

Africans in Guangzhou are on edge, after many are left homeless amid rising xenophobia as China fights a second wave of coronavirus.

 

This from a well known media outlet. 

 

1) I did not know Africans lived in Guangzhou.

2) Chines are Xenophoic?  No way.  Obviously a defamatory statement?

3) Chinese are helping the world to fight this Virus.  They have landed in Serbia, Italy and in Manila to bring their expertise to fight this Virus.  Just checkout the mainland media. The Serbian President even kissed the Chinese flag.  

 

This is not the time to play “The Blame Game”,  But this Virus(Wuhan or Chinese or US Army Transmitted it during the Military Games etc, etc) has made the World Virtual Prisoners.  The Economic Damage is and will have so many zeros a Trillion will seem like nothing.  In the end some accounting will have to be made.  If the Virus kills a million then how many millions will die as result of the damage caused by the response to the virus.  I expect the number of Suicides will rise in all corners of the globe.  

[ravip]

32 minutes ago, chessman said:

Genuine question.

 

I have heard that in China there have been crazy conspiracy theories just as there have been in other countries. One of these theories is that the virus started in the USA.

 

but is there any evidence that the main news sources  in China are systematically promoting such theories? I had a quick look at an English language Chinese online newspaper. It had  ‘finger pointing is not the answer’ type stories and some slightly smug stories detailing the lack of proper preparation in Western countries but it was stating clearly and simply that the virus started in Wuhan.

 

anybody have anything?

This type of stories have been going on for ages and it will never stop. The West was attacking China long before the COVID-19 jumped out from somewhere. The West finds it unbearable to see the rise of China and that they are loosing their 'supremacy' gained by not so honest methods.

The emerging of the virus and China's successful handling of the situation finally made some bite the dust!

So? Who is honest in this blame game? Today, China is the liar, yesterday who was the liar who destroyed a country finding WMD and many more?

Can anyone deny this? All this is a fight to save face, nothing else! Who really is honest?

 

[RJRS1301]

34 minutes ago, crobe said:

I would rather doubt that there will be any reparations for this outbreak, although some countries may call for this.

What can be done, however, is to mitigate against this happening again.

It will be difficult for China to close down all the "wet" (live animal) markets as these are prevalent across the country in more rural areas, and so while this was almost certainly the source of the infection, it was exacerbated by officials trying to clamp down on people raising the alarm. This was not a top-down edict, but more the middle-level local officials assuming that they were acting in the communist party interests, and abusing their own power. 

This is a systemic fault within the structure in China.

 

The only way to stop this happening again is to have a system which bypasses this power structure - such as a WHO office in Beijing which is allowed autonomy, and which health professionals around the country could contact directly if they had concerns. There would need to be a lot of safeguards to ensure the state did not interfere, monitor or try to retaliate against those raising the concerns.

 

And why would a country such as China agree to a change to their structure which would cut the legs out from the authority of the communist party? Because uniquely at this time other governments have leverage.

At the present time there are travel restrictions across the world, and so these could remain in place for all Chinese nationals until and unless this structure has been implemented.

 

It could be argued that this is an extraordinary measure to take, but the damage of this infection has been extraordinary and cannot be repeated, and to the argument that this should not be imposed on China when other countries are responsible for outbreaks such as Ebola in DRC - to which the answer is, the same system can apply in other cases in other countries.

Wet markets are also in Africa, (major source of food in may poverty stricken villages), Indonesia, PNG, rural Malaysia, and I have also seen some here in Thailand.

Those who rely on wet markets would need an alternative, one cannot just shut them down without providing a vaible alternative for financial reasons and food sources