What Percent Of Farang Speak Thai?

[sunshine13]

I am just seriously trying to learn thai and many thais seem very surprised to see a farang being to semi understand them. this seems unusal to me. i expect that with so many long term farang that itd be common for farang to speak thai. yes? no?

What is the best way to learn thai? Everyone says to learn to read thai... My girl friend tried to teach me and it didnt seem like she was the best teacher in the world and I had alot of trouble, whereas just learning to speak and learning grammar structure seems less painful.

[kriswillems]

I guess you need a bit of everything. If you're serious about Thai you should also learn to read (besides speaking, listening and grammar). I know it's hard, meaning that you need perseverance and you've to practise of lot, but it's not complicated. In fact, I think the Thai reading system is much more logical than English.

Learning to read you can do by yourself. You just have to remember the tone rules and the consonant and vowel sounds. You only need a Thai person to correct your pronounciation.

Learning to read first is like taking a shortcut on rough road. It's hard but, you'll reach your destination faster.

Thai people will compliment you when you can speak a bit Thai (even if it's not good). That's their culture and their way to be polite. If your Thai is getting better you'll see that you'll get less compliments and they will try to help you by telling they don't understand or if possible they will correct you (only if they feel you don't loose face).

[sutnyod]

Learning to read you can do by yourself. You just have to remember the tone rules and the consonant and vowel sounds. You only need a Thai person to correct your pronounciation.

Objection: I am completely self-taught in Thai (can do simultaneous translations), including reading, which I picked up from bilingual road signs. I would describe my reading skills like 50% guess work and 50% knowledge of letters. Main problems:

1. "Leela": there are a lot of unnecessary characters in many words (just think of how "Surin" is written! When I ask a Thai person why this is, I just get the answer "because" and it's "leela" anyway, so disregard it.

2. cannot read correctly, because I never learned the rules. How is a self-made person supposed that what is written poomee is pronounced poom? (or a T together with an R as an S?)

I still can read, but if I were a beginner without a big vocabulary (because that helps a lot with the 50% guess work) I would be lost. However, this forum helps a lot, so one day I will just know all the rules just from reading here. Thanks to all posters.

[realthaideal]

Well... yes, I second that, you gots to learn to read Thai. It's the only way. And as for all the odd rules for spelling involving consonant cluster rules and the way sounds change with some letters, it gets easier the more you see/read it. Most learning books have sections on this. I'd sadly say only 55 of long term Farang can speak Thai outside of ordering fried rice and a beer. The number who can do business, answer a phone and hold a conversation is very very tiny. That given, I feel pretty cool to count myself in that top 5%. Next is that there are actually a few highly conversant folks that still can't read. They have no idea what the signs all around them say eg: 'Parking' 'No Parking' 'Air' 'Insurance' 'Patch a Tire' 'Special Seating for Monks Only'

This kind of stuff is very helpful when going around. I'd say readers are in the top 2-3% of Farang here. Of course I'm in that top 2-3% but I always see well beyond my abilities. There are those who can really read serious books, newspapers, and write with good spelling. I'm not there yet, but the reading's pretty solid. This kind of stuff takes years and dedication, methinks. Ye must be dedicated.

Out of respect for people like my old magazine editor wh is married to a Thai, but speaks relatively no Thai I must speak of another class of understanding Thai language. He is in his late 50's, and speaks with a horrible Brit accent when he speaks Thai. However, he understands quite alot. He cannot speak it, but his comprehension is very high. It's interesting that he can hear his wife ont he phone and then advise her if she's missing a point she needs to tell the person on the other end. I think this is down to the willingness to make mistakes when you speak. If you are willing to make lots of mistakes, but get a little better every time, bit by bit, you will learn to speak. Otherwise you will always be sort of on the sideliines, but with high comprehension, and low speaking abilities. But even in this respect I still have to give him props for learning to understand, and also have to admit that I think this is a fairly commom phenomenon where the men learn to listen but not speak.

And it sure beats the pants off the Farangs who insist they don't need to learn it, won't learn it, 'And why would I ? If I do than the Missus will never learn to speak English ?' That's an easy place to hide your own fears that you'll never learn Thai.

[Richard W]

1. "Leela": there are a lot of unnecessary characters in many words (just think of how "Surin" is written! When I ask a Thai person why this is, I just get the answer "because" and it's "leela" anyway, so disregard it.

I can't say that thoughts of 'mediaeval' or 'tmesis' keep me awake at night.

2. cannot read correctly, because I never learned the rules. How is a self-made person supposed that what is written poomee is pronounced poom?

Sounded word-final short vowels in polysyllabic words of Indic origin are unusual. You know that ภูมิ is considered to be of Indic origin because of the ภ. (The purely Indic letters do sometimes occur unetymologically.)

[BigSnake]

First about 1 per cent or less farang speak Thai, the reason most Thais can speak and understand English(common Language). Second find a quailfy teacher to learn to speak and write the Thai language. Girlfriends, and wives just don't fit the bill here(some maybe). May I suggest AUA, checkit out at, www.auathai.com

[ColPyat]

First about 1 per cent or less farang speak Thai, the reason most Thais can speak and understand English(common Language). Second find a quailfy teacher to learn to speak and write the Thai language. Girlfriends, and wives just don't fit the bill here(some maybe). May I suggest AUA, checkit out at, www.auathai.com

Not exactly. Most Thais do not speak English. In most villages you will be hard pressed to find anyone who speaks any English other than former bar girls, and a few officials such as the rare Nai Ampur and one or the other doctor.

[Tod Daniels]

I second the poster who said most thais DO NOT speak english. You would be very hard pressed to find someone who can converse beyond their day to day interactions even on Sukhumvit in Krung Thep. In the villages it's far worse, other than the children parroting, "How are you? I'm fine thank you and you?"

On to the original topic; in the nearly three years I've been here, I'd say it’s less than 1% of farangs who can converse intelligently in thai to thais. I mostly hear only the bar-gurl/street thai or what I call "two word thai". Of course any educated thai will pick right up on the class of people you learned from and that automatically stacks the deck against you in dealing with them. So again I second the don't learn from g/f's or bar-gurls, but use a language school.

I’d concentrate on initially speaking, skip transliteration asmuch as you can. While thai has 5 tones, I'd suggest focusing on just the two important ones at first; high-falling & low-rising. The low middle and high constant tones can be blurred in a sentence to no detriment. I’ve found that thais will understand you perfectly, in fact even educated thais often blur their speech with the constant tones. It's the other two that will lead you astray as far as word meanings suddenly shifting.

Teach yourself the consonants, the vowels, tone marks, and then you can see how bad transliteration really is when you see thai and engrish side by side. It takes time, a LOT of time, but it pays off in spades. It is well worth it.

As an aside; I'd say AUA's thai classes for a beginner are a complete waste of time. It is next to worthless if you have little or no thai vocabulary. If it wasn't for the miming out of the conversation the instructors do, most students who aren't already asleep would be. That said, it is an excellent adjunct to someone who has functional thai down and wants contextually correct thai. It is interesting to note; while AUA touts their Automatic Language Growth, or ALG method of teaching thai to non-thais they have a very regimented, multi-level, text book heavy english system for thais learning engrish. When I asked them if ALG is so great why not teach english that way? They replied with the catch all engrish phrase here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", "Cannot." Go figure. .. ..

สวัสดีปีใหม่

[mangkorn]

Must agree that less than 1 percent of farangs speak Thai, beyond what was brilliantly referred two as "two-word Thai." I've heard some admit that they are very limited, but then say "I can hold my own in a conversation." Pure nonsense. That would be an encounter that starts off with Thai greetings, and then quickly switches to English. A real conversation requires a very large vocabulary, a well-developed sense of grammar to be able to form complex sentences, and the ability to understand what the other person is saying. And as stated before, the fact is that a huge majority of Thais do not speak English, outside of bars and tourist towns. As for reading, it is essential for knowing the tones. I waited a year before learning to read, and became a good speaker, but it wasn't until I learned the script and the rules that the vast world of the language opened up to me. One suggestion for learning the tone rules is to write them down on a very large sheet of paper and tape it to your wall, so that you see it every day until it finally sinks in. The same would hold true for the consonant classes, although there are some catchy phrases for quickly memorizing the high- and middle-class consonants, which is all you need on that score. Then, you should read everything you see: signs, menus, labels, newspapers, etc. That helps to learn the many and varied stylized scripts.

[mangkorn]

1. "Leela": there are a lot of unnecessary characters in many words (just think of how "Surin" is written! When I ask a Thai person why this is, I just get the answer "because" and it's "leela" anyway, so disregard it.

2. cannot read correctly, because I never learned the rules. How is a self-made person supposed that what is written poomee is pronounced poom? (or a T together with an R as an S?)

There are many difficult examples like that, but once you learn them, you don't forget. I've never found a full and clear explanation of those exceptions, and probably because Thai evolved from so many different root languages. But then again, so did English, which has no clear explanation of all the exceptions contained therein. Spanish is the only language I know of where every letter is pronounced and every sound has a corresponding letter. With lots of practice, one does learn to recognize the words with Indic, Khmer or other roots.

[samran]

It would be a very small miniority.

I know one lady of Austrian/Swiss heritige, married a Thai man and moved here 40+ years ago and has raised a family here. One of her sons married my cousin.

She is the only 'farang' I can/will 'wai' and not feel like an idiot when doing so!

[sunshine13]

Can I teach myself to read thai w/ the help of a thai gf/friend or will i need to enroll in a school?

[stonybonytony]

Mangkorn said > "One suggestion for learning the tone rules is to write them down on a very large sheet of paper and tape it to your wall, so that you see it every day until it finally sinks in."

This is an excellent idea - I have a sheet with the high, low and middle consonants all nicely written up, with the tone rules for long vowels. But I think there are more tone rules than this (dead consonants on the ends of things, whatever they are, short vowels etc)? Where can I get a complete list of tone rules from?

[mangkorn]

>This is an excellent idea - I have a sheet with the high, low and middle consonants all nicely written up, with the tone rules for long vowels. But I think there are more tone rules than this (dead consonants on the ends of things, whatever they are, short vowels etc)? Where can I get a complete list of tone rules from?

If you have Benjawan Poomsan Becker's Thai-English dictionary, all the rules are there. If you don't yet have it, you should buy it. (You can also find the rules many other places, but that is an excellent pocket dictionary - I've worn through three of them in just three years.)

Tone rules come in two main categories: with tone marks, and without tone marks.

From there, the three consonant classes are divided into live and dead syllables, with the further delineation among the low-class consonants, with long/dead and short/dead, in addition to live syllables (when no tone marks are present).

In all, there are 15 tone rules: 8 rules for tone marks; and 7 when no tone marks are used.

I made a comprehensive chart and pasted it on the wall, and memorized it completely within a week.

[Richard W]

In all, there are 15 tone rules: 8 rules for tone marks; and 7 when no tone marks are used.

It's a lot simpler with a well drawn table that exploits the following features:

1) The rules for mai ek and dead syllables are very similar.

2) Mid means sometimes as high, sometimes as low, though in some other dialects it can go its own way. In Siamese, mid and high are only different for live syllables with no tone mark.

[jaithai]

One resource that has been invaluable to me for memorizing consonant classes. vowel sounds, and tone rules has been: http://www.1steasythaialphabet.com/

They use a visual memorization method that seem much easier and quicker than just a large chart. It has greatly improved my reading skills.

[SWW]

Can I teach myself to read thai w/ the help of a thai gf/friend or will i need to enroll in a school?

One thing that amazed me (and really, continues to amaze me) is that in my experience Thais know their own language (of course) but they don't seem to know any of the 'rules'. And I do mean that they don't seem to know them *at all*.

For example, my ex-girlfriend could not explain to me why นม is pronounced with a 'middle' tone, but in ขนม the second syllable is pronounced with a rising tone. "Because it is" was her reply. Of course now I know about this particular case (and others like it), and everything is fine - but it was simply baffling to me at the time - and what surprised me was that she did not know why either. (She is masters-degree educated, and one of her degrees is in English, so she knows a bit about languages.)

I have since found two words that have an irregular tone-pronunciation, and would love to know why those are! One is เพชร (diamond), which dictionaries (and the tone rules) say should be pronounced with a 'falling' tone, and every Thai person I have asked says is a 'high' tone (as if the vowel were short, instead of long). The other is สำเร็จ, and I have no idea why the second syllable has a 'low' tone. Putting a ห in front of the ร would fix that nicely, so it baffles me to this day.

Scott

[ArtfulD]

Ive only been in Thailand for 4 months total but have tried to study Thai over the past year....So far I have a vocab of about 600 words and can read about 75% of Thai (slowly), my biggest problem with reading Thai is not so much the actual letters/vowels but my vocab just isnt big enough so I dont know what it is im reading lots of the time! My biggest problem when listening to Thais talk is the speed in which they talk, or if they talk in a very long sentence and my mind just cant translate it all as they speak...now im living here a lot of the common every day words are getting more and more routine to me now tho which is making it alot easier.

It does suprise a lot of Thais when I speak Thai to them, and it does give me a sense of self satisfaction that Im learning and developing something which I consider important but so many farangs never attempt.

[luckyfarang]

<<<If you have Benjawan Poomsan Becker's Thai-English dictionary, all the rules are there. If you don't yet have it, you should buy it. (You can also find the rules many other places, but that is an excellent pocket dictionary - I've worn through three of them in just three years.)>>>

I must disagree with you. Yes, the Becker dictionary has an excellent summary of the tone rules in the introduction, and yes it is generally quite good with regard to pronounciation. It is pocket size and adequate for tourists.

But for accuracy of definitons, it is one of the worst I have seen.

[oevna]

I have since found two words that have an irregular tone-pronunciation, and would love to know why those are! One is เพชร (diamond), which dictionaries (and the tone rules) say should be pronounced with a 'falling' tone, and every Thai person I have asked says is a 'high' tone (as if the vowel were short, instead of long).

This word is just an exception, like the word สามารถ, that must be memorized. You are right that it is pronounced as if it had a short vowel, and with a high tone (as it would be if it were spelled [เพ็ด]). I have a dictionary that shows this pronunciation (Thai -English Student's Dictionary, by Mary R. Haas). It also provides two alternate spellings (เพ็ชร and เพ็ชร์).

The other is สำเร็จ, and I have no idea why the second syllable has a 'low' tone. Putting a ห in front of the ร would fix that nicely, so it baffles me to this day.

Scott

This is an interesting one, also somewhat of an exception, but there is some consistency in that there are other words that have similar deviations from the basic tone rules. Another example is ประโยชน์ [ประ-โหยด], and some other words that start with "ประ". The "ประ" emparts mid-class consonant rules to the initial low class consonant of the next syllable, and that is what is happening with สำเร็จ also (another example more similar to สำเร็จ is กำเนิด, which is pronounced [กำ-เหนิด]). The explanation is that there are some syllables which empart the tone of their initial consonant to that of the next syllable. This is similar to the example that you gave with นม and ขนม in that only high and mid class consonants can empart their tone rules to an initial low class consonant of the next syllable (in the case of "ประ" words, the tone rules of ป are used because it is the initial consonant in the cluster). Unfortunately, these are not universal rules, just patterns that show up occasionally in the language, and there are many exceptions to them. They do follow some rules though; for example the initial syllable must not have a final consonant in order to empart its tone rules to the next syllable.

-oev

[BkkAnimalover]

I am just seriously trying to learn thai and many thais seem very surprised to see a farang being to semi understand them. this seems unusal to me. i expect that with so many long term farang that itd be common for farang to speak thai. yes? no?

What is the best way to learn thai? Everyone says to learn to read thai... My girl friend tried to teach me and it didnt seem like she was the best teacher in the world and I had alot of trouble, whereas just learning to speak and learning grammar structure seems less painful.

My 3 suggestions ( coming from my personal experience ) are 1) don't care about people that they laugh about your error and speak , speak and speak . Today they laugh , one day , once u will be able to understand all what they are talking about around U and SURPRISE THEM ANSWERING IN PERFECT THAI .....U will laugh louder !!! Listen thai music , look the tv news even if u can't recognise a word this will help U to get the correct sound , for foreigner this is the most difficult step , the correct sound it's basic to speak thai , the grammar or the number of words to learn are not a big issue , the sound yes . Finally find a simple , basic and easy dictionary Thai - Your lenguage and try to get the help of some person outside the home or work area ....Your girl and Your staff they don't want u speak and expecially u understand anything , this thingh make them feel very unconfortable , even if there is not any reason and they do not have anythingh to hide ! So believe me they will always do their best to NOT HELP YOU and probably they will also find the way to convince You that it's too difficult , that will take to long , that U have a terrible accent , that is better to give away ! I repeat this suggestion came from my experience trough the way of learning Thai so may be are not the best suggestion also bcoz I'm not a teacher , but this is the way that bring me to speak Thai fluently even better than english ( only speak not write or read ) , get compliments from many many Thais and feel good , manage any situation anytime and anywhere, understand better the people , their feeling , their ideas and their culture and finally have so much fun with the locals that when sometimes I back to my homeland I feel a stranger and I really miss " Bangkok , Thailand and Thai people " Hoping to be helpfull in somehow I send U my Best Regards.

[SPALAX]

I am just seriously trying to learn thai and many thais seem very surprised to see a farang being to semi understand them. this seems unusal to me. i expect that with so many long term farang that itd be common for farang to speak thai. yes? no?

What is the best way to learn thai? Everyone says to learn to read thai... My girl friend tried to teach me and it didnt seem like she was the best teacher in the world and I had alot of trouble, whereas just learning to speak and learning grammar structure seems less painful.

My advices would be the following ones :

1- Never try to learn to speak thai without learning to read and write thai language.

2- To begin learning to write thai buy very basic exercise books (like a kindergarten level one) . You can find there almost anywhere. Asiabook shops for instance. Draw the letters some minutes each day.

3- To begin reading thai buy several farang books about this subject and try to learn the basic rules of reading.

4- To begin to speak thai buy two or three methods and concentrate as long as you can to pronounce phonems or syllabs with the five different tones. This step is crucial. Do not care so much about understanding what you pronounce but try to pronounce it well.

5- Hire a thai teacher and subscribe to individual courses only. At the beginning learn intensively 2/3 times each week during let say 6 weeks; Then have a rest and start again learning by yoursselves. And so on.

6-"look TV" sometimes. Just try to distingish the different sounds. For instance concentrate on trying to lsiten to "dai, mai, hai...)

7- Buy one thai daily newpaper some times and circle thai letters. For example take an article and circle all the letters wich bear the sound "T".

8- From time to time try to speak. Tell only what you almost perfectly pronounce.

9- From this basis continue what you started to do and never stop. At this step learn the numerous thai patterns of the thai language. And never speak thai with farangs!

Then you will be part of the 5% farangs who can tell something about the economic situation in a remote village, read any road sign in thai and have the pleasure some times to write some thai sentences to your girl friend (buy a poetry book before).

[kriswillems]

The tone rules look complicated, but they are not that complicated if you look at what different intial consonant classes have in common and think about the differences between the classes as exceptions.

This is how I remember the tone rules (only 10 lines):

with tone mark:

- follow the mark

- exception: low class consonants -> take the next tone mark.

no tone mark:

- Live syllables

mid tone

exception: high class consonants -> rising tone

- Dead syllables

low tone

exception: low class consonants -> short vowel = high tone, long vowel = falling tone

(If left out details as: the use of "hoh hiep" and "ooh aang" as initial consonant, the defintion of life and dead syllables, intial and final consonant sounds, inheritance of tones between syllables).

I agree with the remark of some people that there are exceptions in Thai language. The exceptions have to be remembered. Thai people also need to remember them. Besides the exceptions the Thai writing system is very logical. Learning to pronounce English correctly is much more complicated because you've to remember much more exceptions. German and Spanish are also phonetic languages, but in German or Spanish you don't know which tone you need to use when pronouncing the words, so Thai writing system is even more logical about this.

[sutnyod]

How did you, the posters that gave a percentage, come up with that? Are there any statistics or is it a guestimate (yours)? I am caught in between two conflicting scenarios: almost all of my farang friends are fluent in Thai, but when I meet Farang strangers, even though they work and/or live here, they seem to not know the language at all.

Hm. You mean there are reallyreallyreally no rules about this Leela-stuff? Then it's not so much reading that will be a problem for me, but writing.

[mangkorn]

<<<If you have Benjawan Poomsan Becker's Thai-English dictionary, all the rules are there. If you don't yet have it, you should buy it. (You can also find the rules many other places, but that is an excellent pocket dictionary - I've worn through three of them in just three years.)>>>

I must disagree with you. Yes, the Becker dictionary has an excellent summary of the tone rules in the introduction, and yes it is generally quite good with regard to pronounciation. It is pocket size and adequate for tourists.

But for accuracy of definitons, it is one of the worst I have seen.

People can argue the relative value of dictionaries all day. Obviously, there are excellent comprehensive desktop dictionaries, and I have a couple - which I spend a lot of time perusing. But I also spend a lot of time away from home, and so it is hugely important to have a pocket dictionary at all times; I read it every spare minute of the day - on the subway, at lunch, in the elevator, waiting in line for something, and walking down the street reading sings, etc. Carrying a large dictionary is impractical, and anyone who doesn't carry a pocket dictionary is cheating him or herself of opportunities to learn. Your crack about tourists using Becker's dictionary is nonsense, but we can let that be. I also suspect that most beginners do not start off with a large dictionary, or would spend much time in it. (Obviously, there are exceptions, including some among the posters here, no doubt.) My main point is: learn to love dictionaries, and use them often. For an online reference, I've found thai-language.com to be an invaluable tool, especially for its variety of definitions and usages. A large vocabulary is important; one poster referred to himself as an intermediate student with a proven vocabulary of 194 words. It would seem hard to imagine anyone actually having a conversation with so few words.

[garro]

I have no idea what the exact percentage of Farangs who speak Thai but less than 5% sounds about right. In my five years in Thailand I have only met about 6 Farang who's Thai I was impressed with. I think the problem is that a lot of long-term ex-pats give up learning Thai after a few years. They probably were very eager at first but reached a level that they were happy with and stopped learning. The problem is though, in my opinion, as soon as you stop learning a language you start to forget it.

I have needed to put a lot of effort into continuious learning. I read every day and have got rid of the English speaking channels on my UBC a few months back (they were all repeats anyway!).

I personally think being able to read and write Thai is important but know some people manage to speak well without it. The problem is though that if your not willing to put the effort into reading and writing it is less likely that you will put the effort into other aspects of language acquisition.

[Tim207]

A large vocabulary is important; one poster referred to himself as an intermediate student with a proven vocabulary of 194 words. It would seem hard to imagine anyone actually having a conversation with so few words.

I still feel the need to correct people when they tell someone I can speak Thai. I always complain and insist I only speak a little. Although it may sound like polite modesty to Thai's it is how I actually feel. I consider myself a begginer (unless compared to the average farang's vocabulary) and I would estimate I know about 1000 words. 194 words, I would describe that as speaking a few Thai words. No offence to who ever said they are intermediate with that vocabulary but you are deluding yourself.

[garro]

I think that one of the reasons why a lot of Farang ovestimate their level of proficiency in Thai is that many native English speakers haven't learnt another language to any significant level. The fact that they have made an effort to learn even a few words of Thai is a big achievement in itself and they are rightly proud. The Thais a more than willing to complement any effort to learn their language. I can't see a Geman, for example , being impressed by someone who could only speak 194 words in German.

I can't remember the exact numbers but I think the ability to speak up to 1000 words means a beginner, 1,000-2,000 is intermediate and 2,000 + words is advanced

[stonybonytony]

kriswillems - I like the look of your 10 lines to get the tones right, but can someone give me some idea of how to tell a live from a dead syllable - the rules for no tone mark seem to depend on this somewhat.

[meadish_sweetball]

I think that one of the reasons why a lot of Farang ovestimate their level of proficiency in Thai is that many native English speakers haven't learnt another language to any significant level. The fact that they have made an effort to learn even a few words of Thai is a big achievement in itself and they are rightly proud. The Thais a more than willing to compliment any effort to learn their language. I can't see a Geman, for example , being impressed by someone who could only speak 194 words in German.

This is very true. Thais have a tendency to flatter (are we all really that 'law' - 'keng' etc.? ). It's nice as encouragement at the early stages but usually does not mean as much as one would like to believe.

Languages are more than words alone so it is rather pointless to discuss how many one knows. Further, people's lexicons contain both active and passive vocabulary, which means that while you understand some words, you would never recall them and use them yourself. The passive vocabulary you possess in your native language is often huge. The more you expose yourself to a language, the more your passive vocabulary will increase. Some people have nothing but passive vocabulary because they refuse to speak - i.e. they understand most of what they hear, but answer back another language. Some couples do this - both understand the other person's language, but do not speak it. Children of parents with different native languages often do this as well - with an English father in a Thai speaking majority culture and surrounded by mostly Thais, they will understand what their father says in English, but may choose to talk back to him in Thai because it feels more natural to them, and possibly also as an identity marker.

Using your better half as a teacher is not very useful in the early learning stages, the same as most people anywhere will not be very good teachers of their native languages unless they have studied it in-depth and/or have experience of teaching. There are some exceptions of course. And naturally almost everyone can teach fixed phrases by repetition. It is the inner workings of a language that we cannot teach automatically unless we have devoted time to understand them.

Most questions foreigners come up with, Thais have never had to ask themselves, and consequently, they will not have answers for them. And sometimes when Thais cannot answer a question, they feel they lose face - which causes annoyance. They have heard the language in its natural setting since they were foetuses. Things we don't understand are self-evident and natural to them.