Is China Really Responsible For The Virus?

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Only if they stop Chinese food home deliveries......????

In Oz, Thai restaurants are more popular than Chinese, and that was happening before COVID-19.

I took my Thai GF to Hong Kong a few years ago, and we both found the Chinese food there quite bland in comparison.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I think in many western countries there will be hate, disdain, and discrimination against Chinese like one has never seen.

 

It is foolish to conflate the "CCP" and "The Chinese People."  Ordinary citizens have little if any control over what govt-leaders do. 

 

I hope this distinction remains clear, as appropriate measures are taken to isolate, contain, and ultimately remove the CCP-menanace from the world.

 

 

[seajae]

considering the fact that chinese officials had all samples taken destroyed to stop anyone from getting to the truth, made people that tried to expose it dissapear or declare they were wrong, the answer is a resounding yes, the ccp do not want to be blamed as it will cause a huge loss of face plus the people may well start to oppose them and want them removed. The truth is being denied to the rest of the world as well as the chinese people purely for these reasons, china was aware of it before christmas yet did not declare it or stop people from flying overseas so there is a good chance that they wanted it to go around the world to decimate economies to help them to get where they wanted to be, on top of the world. Hopefully the rest of the world will not accept this and hold china responsible, whether it came from their lab or their wet market  they are the only ones that can be held accountable, xi needs to be removed before he causes even bigger problems

Edited April 18, 2020 by seajae

[Odysseus123]

24 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

 

Clinton opened up the world to the evils of China

Oh..I thought it was Nixon and Kissinger looking for a way out of an interminable war.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Since it appears very likely the the "Spanish" flu originated in Kansas then to be on the safe side we should also boycott the USA, plus the Congo for Ebola, the Middle East for MERS. Now would be a good time to demand reparations from all countries involved in the bubonic plague, or maybe we can charge the rats. The Mexicans will have a big bill to give the Spanish for the c. 10 million plus  they wiped out with European viruses. Likewise the reparations for the genocide of the First Nation Americans. The Mongolians are going to be in a really tough spot when the bill for Ghengis's adventures comes in.

 

Alternatively we could grow up of course, though that is probably too much to ask. Nationalism, racism and xenophobia are making hay in the shrunken minds of our self destructive species.  

Clever, but the issue is not "Place of Origin" - or even "not regulating wet-markets".  What makes the CCP liable, is their Lies / Coverup.  

 

As but one example: Restricting travel from Wuhan to the rest of China, while allowing travel from Wuhan to the rest of the world, while simultaneously telling the world the virus does not spread "person to person." 

[JackThompson]

8 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Oh..I thought it was Nixon and Kissinger looking for a way out of an interminable war.

Any cold-war justification for cozying-up to the CCP was immediately invalidated with the fall of the USSR. 

 

What Bill Clinton did, was to take suitcases of CCP cash, to green-light the sale of satellite-telemetry-tech so the CCP could precisely target US cities, and to help send US good-paying careers offshore, so that transnational-corporations could "save money" on environmental-compliance and wage-costs.

 

Edit: (seeing other replies) and, yes, the GOP was in on the plan, too - even before the Democrat party sold out labor under Bill Clinton.

Edited April 18, 2020 by JackThompson

[fruitman]

3 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I think in many western countries there will be hate, disdain, and discrimination against Chinese like one has never seen.

 

ALL Africans in china are locked up in hotels now, not matter which color of skin they have...the Africans are not happy and are saying it loud and clear on the internet. Millions of chinese work in Africa these days and they better watch out there.

[lovesthespicy]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/costliest-government-coverup-time-growing-120056563.html

 

Sounds like US intelligence believes it was from their lab as well. 

[BeltAndRoad]

1 hour ago, Nigel Garvie said:

 

 

Since it appears very likely the the "Spanish" flu originated in Kansas then to be on the safe side we should also boycott the USA, plus the Congo for Ebola, the Middle East for MERS. Now would be a good time to demand reparations from all countries involved in the bubonic plague, or maybe we can charge the rats. The Mexicans will have a big bill to give the Spanish for the c. 10 million plus  they wiped out with European viruses. Likewise the reparations for the genocide of the First Nation Americans. The Mongolians are going to be in a really tough spot when the bill for Ghengis's adventures comes in.

 

Alternatively we could grow up of course, though that is probably too much to ask. Nationalism, racism and xenophobia are making hay in the shrunken minds of our self destructive species.  

History suggests the "ism's" you mention are essential in protecting ones tribe.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, finnsk said:

Nobody is responsible for a panepidemic, it seems to be a part of the worlds lifecyclus. Historical there has been a lot of them.

That is true under the following conditions:

• It is naturally occurring (jury out on this - but looking bad for the Wuhan labs)
• Govt officials do not lie and coverup the event/dangers, such that Their Actions imperil lives.

On the 2nd point, the CCP has been caught red-handed.

 

1 hour ago, finnsk said:

 

China is making research in epidemic, and a lot of other organisations, companies, countries is doing the same. 

"Gain of Function" virus-research - taking a non-human-to-human spreading virus, and making it so, is Insanely-Dangerous.  This research was banned in the USA for this reason.  Two Chinese scientists engaged in this research in the USA continued their work in the Wuhan Lab. 

 

China, the USA, and ALL Nations should ban this type of research, due to no level of containment short of a one-way-trip to the Moon for all involved, being sufficiently safe.

 

1 hour ago, finnsk said:

In Wuhan the chinese have 2 research centers in this area, maybe accidents has happends, sh.t happens, but in this moment nobody knows, it is time to work together in the world, not to make trenches.

 

I do not believe anybody have a wish to make this outbreak of covid.

There is an angle of analysis missing, here.  What if AFTER it "got loose" (irrespective of origin) in Wuhan, the CCP realized that if the DID contain it, then Only They would suffer the consequences, and this would cause their financial-position on the world-stage to be diminished - Much More So than if the Whole World was affected. 

 

This would explain blocking travel Within China and Wuhan, but NOT restricting travel from Wuhan to the rest of the world.

 

It is worth pointing out that recent revelations indicate that USA-funding went to the lab in Wuhan, so those involved in this funding should be held partially responsible, should a lab-release-origin be determined.  This risk-factor may provide reason for the US-Gov to push the "animal market" explanation of events, which complicates a search for the truth.

[BeltAndRoad]

21 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Oh..I thought it was Nixon and Kissinger looking for a way out of an interminable war.

I thought they were there to lay the ground work for the mass transfer of manufacturing from the US to China.

[BeltAndRoad]

5 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

It is worth pointing out that recent revelations indicate that USA-funding went to the lab in Wuhan

That's interesting, if possible i would like to view your source regarding this.  I believe China and the US are no more enemies than Hulk Hogan and Rody Piper.  Both are concerned with population control and the implementation of the NWO.

[AussieBob18]

28 minutes ago, crobe said:

You are a bit wrong on your history

Nixon (republican) opened up to China in 1972

Carter (democrat) accepted the one-china policy

George W Bush (republican) was in office for almost a year when China became a member of WTO in December 2001 - he could have reversed this

Diplomatic contacts were started by Nixon - not trade.

Yes you are right - it was Carter that first agreed to the One China deal. But the USA later passed the Taiwan Relations Act, which guarantees US support for the island.  The Act means the US will help Taiwan defend itself (against China) and it has caused the 'stalemate'.

Clinton supported and smoothed the way for China to join the World Trade Agreement as a full and favoured member - that is how they have started to take over the SEAsia and they have used that wealth generated from trade to spread their influence and corruption. In his early years Clinton went hard in China especially about human rights abuses, but then later, especially in his second term, he become very much a supporter - I often wonder why ????

The Bushes were and are globalists - they both supported China for trade - but in GOP they never got enough support to take it much further.

Trump called the Taiwan leader early on (like Clinton did) - and he continues to upset the apple cart.

I expect that Trump will withdraw from the One China policy in his second term - I cannot see him doing a 180 like Clinton did and start to support them (maybe because he is already a billionaire and cannot be bought by them?). 

[JackThompson]

6 minutes ago, BeltAndRoad said:

That's interesting, if possible i would like to view your source regarding this.  I believe China and the US are no more enemies than Hulk Hogan and Rody Piper.  Both are concerned with population control and the implementation of the NWO.

The USA is somewhat split - and I am referring to leadership/power factions, not the general-populace, whose viewpoint is not even a consideration.  There are many interest groups involved, including "national security hawks," some of whom are not fans of further-empowering China.  But, then there are the Rockefeller-globalists - who started the whole thing rolling - who are heavily invested in China.

 

The Daily-Mail broke the funding-story - don't know if links to that source are permitted, but can be found with "The US National Institutes of Health, a government agency, awarded a $3.7million research grant to the Wuhan Institute of Virology."

 

No doubt this will be explained as "trying to get involved to prevent something like this."  But that lab was part of a global-network, tied into the WHO, etc - same as similar labs in the USA, Japan, and Europe.   While a "global effort" on this issue would be nice if "done right," when it is run by kleptocrat-govts and robber-barrons, it's hard to imagine anything good coming out of it.

[BeltAndRoad]

39 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

In his early years Clinton went hard in China

In America also right there in the oval office of all places.

Edited April 18, 2020 by BeltAndRoad

[AussieBob18]

25 minutes ago, BeltAndRoad said:

In America also right there in the oval office of all places.

Hillary didn't seem to mind - as long as he left her alone.

[AussieBob18]

44 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The USA is somewhat split - and I am referring to leadership/power factions, not the general-populace, whose viewpoint is not even a consideration.  There are many interest groups involved, including "national security hawks," some of whom are not fans of further-empowering China.  But, then there are the Rockefeller-globalists - who started the whole thing rolling - who are heavily invested in China.

 

The Daily-Mail broke the funding-story - don't know if links to that source are permitted, but can be found with "The US National Institutes of Health, a government agency, awarded a $3.7million research grant to the Wuhan Institute of Virology."

 

No doubt this will be explained as "trying to get involved to prevent something like this."  But that lab was part of a global-network, tied into the WHO, etc - same as similar labs in the USA, Japan, and Europe.   While a "global effort" on this issue would be nice if "done right," when it is run by kleptocrat-govts and robber-barrons, it's hard to imagine anything good coming out of it.

Yes you are right - the USA admin funded part of the lab setup - and many of the senior people who became the heads of the lab came from US - Chinese citizens working at level 4 labs in US.  This whole thing is yet another example of the CCP appeasing by saying all the right things, and influencing those with the power (money), to get what they want - with very different ulterior motives - and those under influence dont really care, even though they know what the CCP really are. 

 

There is a story somewhere about how the constructon of the lab was a worry - lost it - but found this:

"China built a lab to study SARS and Ebola in Wuhan - and US biosafety experts warned in 2017 that a virus could 'escape' the facility that's become key in fighting the outbreak"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7922379/Chinas-lab-studying-SARS-Ebola-Wuhan-outbreaks-center.html

 

 

[BeltAndRoad]

8 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

Hillary didn't seem to mind - as long as he left her alone.

True, she was busy bumping ugly's with Chelsea's father  

[AussieBob18]

12 minutes ago, BeltAndRoad said:

True, she was busy bumping ugly's with Chelsea's father  

???? She sure doesnt look anything like either Killary or Bill

[holy cow cm]

Well the cat is coming out of the bag and China better have sever repercussions from it. Sorry to say, if their Government and some private firms are behind it, and they are, unfortunately the people will have to suffer the consequences as well or over throw their sick controlling communist government. They better get wise as XI is going to stay at the iron fisted suppressive helm until he dies unless they do something. Dangerous guy who needs to be taken out and there is no way the world should let China get more strong owning everyone and all countries thro9ugh economics and loans.. Same way as Putin is going, gonna stay at the top unless stopped..

[Thongkorn]

If only America has excepted the hand of friendship from China,   America refused it not once, but twice after the second world War , Maybe the world would be a safer place today.

[DrTuner]

It most certainly is guilty of trying to cover it up. That alone calls for a worldwide effort to remove the CCP from the known universe.

[BeltAndRoad]

39 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Well the cat is coming out of the bag and China better have sever repercussions from it.

Well get it back in the bag it's almost dinner time.

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, AussieBob18 said:

There is a story somewhere about how the constructon of the lab was a worry - lost it

https://www.dailywire.com/news/u-s-officials-raised-alarm-about-wuhan-lab-researching-bat-coronaviruses-in-2018-military-investigating

 

It is conceivable the research in bats that was done their in the BSL-4 lab leaked out. The bats were not from the Hubei province at all, they brought there by Dr Shi.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3049397/bat-ladys-cave-exploits-offer-hope-beat-virus-sneakier-sars

 

If there was a leak, was it on purpose in an evil commie masterplan to get their own infected and recovered first, so that they could then gobble up the rest of the world for pennies? Would sound exactly what commies have done since the bolsheviks. People are just cannon fodder on their quest for party supremacy.  

 

It's strange people balk at fascist nazies, but their even more evil cousin, the commies, are just cuddly toy bears. Communism must be eradicated.

Edited April 18, 2020 by DrTuner

[BeltAndRoad]

9 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

It most certainly is guilty of trying to cover it up. That alone calls for a worldwide effort to remove the CCP from the known universe.

Are we talking the use of harsh words, regime change or mushroom clouds?

Edited April 18, 2020 by BeltAndRoad

[ivor bigun]

4 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

 

 

Since it appears very likely the the "Spanish" flu originated in Kansas then to be on the safe side we should also boycott the USA, plus the Congo for Ebola, the Middle East for MERS. Now would be a good time to demand reparations from all countries involved in the bubonic plague, or maybe we can charge the rats. The Mexicans will have a big bill to give the Spanish for the c. 10 million plus  they wiped out with European viruses. Likewise the reparations for the genocide of the First Nation Americans. The Mongolians are going to be in a really tough spot when the bill for Ghengis's adventures comes in.

 

Alternatively we could grow up of course, though that is probably too much to ask. Nationalism, racism and xenophobia are making hay in the shrunken minds of our self destructive species.  

nothing to do with xenophobia ,and i certainly do not blame or hate Chinese people ,but its their govt to blame for covering it up and letting the world find out to late .

[DrTuner]

3 minutes ago, BeltAndRoad said:

Are we talking the use of harsh words, regime change or mushroom clouds?

Regime change. That must be done by the people of China. They must topple CCP. This way they will also show to the world it is not the people, it's the commies. They must make this distinction or be branded as the enemy.

 

If that doesn't work, clone Reagan, time for a cold war. Worked with CCCP.

Edited April 18, 2020 by DrTuner

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Of course there will be no "kicking out" barring or any other kind of racist action..I would like to think people dont blame or take action against an entire nation and its people for the action (alledgedly or not,) of its Govt.

 

Who knows, it may have been a simple bio hazard accident, but thats a different topic.

Well that's a pity, the problem is the cover up. I expect official sanctions for decades to come. Remember, when it comes to international sanctions the US calls the shots.

 

Economic sanctions would be a way to avoid a war.

[ravip]

26 minutes ago, Thongkorn said:

If only America has excepted the hand of friendship from China,   America refused it not once, but twice after the second world War , Maybe the world would be a safer place today.

As of today, the US has proved over and over again that it is not fit or is capable of been of any significant influence for a better world. Time up for the US to take a back seat and clear up the Skeletons in its closet - and there are many...

[DrTuner]

2 minutes ago, ravip said:

As of today, the US has proved over and over again that it is not fit or is capable of been of any significant influence for a better world. 

Tell that to former Eastern European countries that got free when CCCP collapsed thanks to the cold war.