Follow the science....

[Lacessit]

  On 4/25/2020 at 3:47 PM, CGW said:

Is that because you are superior - a "Scientist" wow - respect ????    

 

Waiting for tomorrows edition of "I am a scientist and know everything" sleep tight ???? 

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I'm a scientist, and doubt is part of every scientist's training. As is respect for data.

But have your shot, it's not as if your opinion is worth anything more to me than sheep pellets. At least they have some fertilizer value.

[jimmybcool]

  On 4/25/2020 at 12:04 PM, chessman said:

I agree with your general point, It's amazing how many people here dismiss the opinions of scientists and experts until they find one that has a similar view to them and then they are happy to put them forward to 'prove' they are correct.

 

However, I watched a good chunk of that video (not the whole thing) and they generally seem to be talking sense. The extreme measure were necessary initially so we could stop a sudden spike, organize testing, prepare our health care systems and do research on the virus. As we have done those things now (more or less) we are entering a new stage in which we will have to open things up step by step.

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Oh come on.  This is the internet.  You have to be emotional and irrational not logical and sensible - as you are being.  LOL

[CGW]

  On 4/25/2020 at 4:00 PM, Lacessit said:

I'm a scientist, and doubt is part of every scientist's training. As is respect for data.

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That doesn't count as tomorrow's! "I'm a scientist" post, you should have waited until after midnight! ???? 

Looking forward! ????

[Rhys]

Kern Country, close to XXXX. Anyway insightful talk adds to the file.

[teatime101]

  On 4/25/2020 at 4:00 PM, Lacessit said:

I'm a scientist, and doubt is part of every scientist's training.

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Consensus is the closest we have to a gold standard, when there is overwhelming agreement among scientists - based on the best available evidence. Doubt means nothing without evidence. It's a convenient cover when one doesn't like the consensus view.

[CGW]

  On 4/25/2020 at 3:53 PM, rumak said:

my personal opinion ( which some "experts" support).......  is that the western concern with sterile lifestyles does not allow the body to naturally build up resistance )

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I also agree, kids growing up now never get a chance for their immune system to develop either, they are filled full of "vaccines" with the 'disinfectants" added" Appears the "Cabal" wont's weak people, easier to control, better to give the few $ they have to "Big Pharma" who off course they own!

 

Making people stay inside during the lockdown is yet another criminal act towards humanity, sun and fresh air breed immunity, last thing they want, judging by their actions?

 

YouTube disallow any "news" or possible treatments for CV19 that hasn't been "approved" by "WHO" yes Bill Gates mob! another criminal act against humanity!

 

5G will be the icing on the cake for them! - coming soon as we have been given no choice in the matter. They just paid off a few "scientists" to say its harmless, the MSM (who they own) runs only the positive & profitable stories, rarely the truth!

[papa al]

  On 4/25/2020 at 1:08 PM, Logosone said:

 

  On 4/25/2020 at 2:05 PM, teatime101 said:

This is also how climate change denial has been rolling for years. The opinions of a small handful of contrarian scientists, many of whom are funded by fossil fuel interests, are all they need to challenge the consensus view of the other 99% of climate scientists.

Scientific consensus denial is motivated by money and political ideology, not counting the nutters - flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, etc. that jump on the bandwagon. If they are from the USA, I would guess more than 90% of these people are Trump supporters...

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Who says that 99% agree?

And what EXACTLY are they agreeing to?

Have you read the study that derived that figure?

I have.

Total BS,

yet

endlessly repeated by MSM.

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[torturedsole]

  On 4/25/2020 at 3:53 PM, rumak said:

exposed to all kinds

of  germs and I am sure not taught to wash her hands after getting the kwai in thru the mud.

... Now that is immunity !

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That's kwai herd immunity.  ????

[cornishcarlos]

  On 4/25/2020 at 3:30 PM, Lacessit said:

Please explain why I should post any more than I have. You have the data from Australia and the US, and Australia's Chief Medical Officer is diametrically opposed to the views expressed in the video.

Science always throws up different hypotheses. The real test is which one works, and the evidence is already there. If you don't understand that, I'm not going to waste my time anymore on a BS thread.

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Or don't post any of the half dozen up then.. Not even one to add to the discussion ?? Post a recent video of Australia's Chief Medical officers opposing views.. You claimed to have more than half a dozen !! 

[cornishcarlos]

  On 4/25/2020 at 3:33 PM, Lacessit said:

Thanks. I'll wear it as a badge of honor.

If I'm unpleasant, it's because I'm unable to suffer fools gladly.

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You said you were done with this BS thread but posted again !! Did you forget ?

[norfolkandchance]

  On 4/25/2020 at 3:46 PM, Logosone said:

It's basically the same thing.

 

Austrians voted twice to join Germany. Only through a gun to their head were they prevented from achieving this lucky fate.

 

 

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Can we have one of your latest cookery recipes. Post it on

‘ Western Food in Thailand ‘. Thanks in advance.

[BeltAndRoad]

  On 4/25/2020 at 2:17 PM, CGW said:

Human "fallacy" systematic error in reasoning, people only hear what they want to hear!

 

I was hoping one of the positive outcomes from this "event" is that people would realise how corrupted the MSM has become! Then I read a post quoting Sky news! there is no hope for some! ???? 

 

Next we will have someone stating that the 5 million $$ a year the BBC receives from Bill Gates does not influence their left wing beliefs! ????

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It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled. - Mark Twain

We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false. - William Casey, CIA

[cornishcarlos]

  On 4/25/2020 at 3:47 PM, CGW said:

Is that because you are superior - a "Scientist" wow - respect ????    

 

Waiting for tomorrows edition of "I am a scientist and know everything" sleep tight ???? 

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He got an ology

 

 

[BeltAndRoad]

  On 4/25/2020 at 3:22 PM, Lacessit said:

I wasted my time listening to these two doctors. How do you know they are working on the frontline? You only have their word for that.

The flu red herring keeps getting trotted out. I haven't had flu since my twenties, vaccination every year. Get back to me after they have found a vaccination for this pandemic, and stop wasting my time.

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How are vaccines preserved?  

[rvaviator]

Maybe the OP should edit the title of this thread to read : Follow the science that you agree with .... ???? .

[cornishcarlos]

  On 4/25/2020 at 11:35 PM, rvaviator said:

Maybe the OP should edit the title of this thread to read : Follow the science that you agree with .... ???? .

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It did say "take from it what you will"

Which meant I didn't expect everyone to agree with their findings !!

Amazing the abuse some give out though, just because they disagree with something ????

 

[BeltAndRoad]

  On 4/25/2020 at 11:35 PM, rvaviator said:

Maybe the OP should edit the title of this thread to read : Follow the science that you agree with .... ???? .

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Or follow the Yellow Brick Road.

[UbonThani]

Open up May 1. Keep int flights down and retirement homes. Others get back to life.

[UbonThani]

  On 4/25/2020 at 4:36 PM, teatime101 said:

Consensus is the closest we have to a gold standard,

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Nonsense. Science is about facts not opinions. It's about large chunks of data that say the same thing.

[sucit]

  On 4/25/2020 at 11:35 PM, rvaviator said:

Maybe the OP should edit the title of this thread to read : Follow the science that you agree with .... ???? .

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There is tremendous pressure from, what shall we call them, shutdown enthusiasts to harass those with dissenting views. 

 

In other words, reporting the actual science results in becoming very unpopular. Not a lot of people want to do that, so they get on tv and do not report the science.

 

I have no idea what "science" you think you are looking at. 

[Logosone]

  On 4/25/2020 at 4:00 PM, teatime101 said:

Yes. How else is it going to spread, other than through person to person contact? It's not in the water supply. It can't travel without a vector.

China (eventually) took social distancing to extremes and stopped the virus spreading in China. If they hadn't it could have been a disaster, given the density of some of their cities.

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First of all, at the very beginning, starting from zero, when there are no cases to the first increase in cases when no measures are taken at all, obviously the growth rates of cases are much bigger than towards the end of a pandemic when measures are taken.

 

This is the case with everything, early on growth rates are lager than towards the end.

 

The fact that extreme social distancing measures are taken later, not at the start, as in the UK, means that they are timed to occur when a lowering of the growth rate follows. This is not enough, you would have to show a direct causative role in social distancing actually causing lower numbers of transmission. The data does not support that.

 

When Chinese researchers tried to analyse the effectiveness of social distancing measures they were unable to determine the exact effect, if any, social distancing had specifically on reduction of transmission. That was partly because China also tested strongly and isolated the infected, used clinical management etc, so various measures were thrown at the virus simultaneously by China.

 

It is not enough to point to lower transmission and social distancing and say "see". Because testing and isolating the infected, and clinical management and other measures were also used at the same time or earlier.

 

 

[sucit]

  On 4/26/2020 at 2:47 AM, Logosone said:

 

First of all, at the very beginning, starting from zero, when there are no cases to the first increase in cases when no measures are taken at all, obviously the growth rates of cases are much bigger than towards the end of a pandemic when measures are taken.

 

This is the case with everything, early on growth rates are lager than towards the end.

 

The fact that extreme social distancing measures are taken later, not at the start, as in the UK, means that they are timed to occur when a lowering of the growth rate follows. This is not enough, you would have to show a direct causative role in social distancing actually causing lower numbers of transmission. The data does not support that.

 

When Chinese researchers tried to analyse the effectiveness of social distancing measures they were unable to determine the exact effect, if any, social distancing had specifically on reduction of transmission. That was partly because China also tested strongly and isolated the infected, used clinical management etc, so various measures were thrown at the virus simultaneously by China.

 

It is not enough to point to lower transmission and social distancing and say "see". Because testing and isolating the infected, and clinical management and other measures were also used at the same time or earlier.

 

 

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He says in the video lockdowns are not shown to be effective at a statistically significant level at this point.

 

In other words, if Alabama locked down they do not necessarily show better results than Florida which did not lock down (not a factual example). 

 

This is the biggest misunderstanding at this point: people think sitting in their homes is working. We don't know that is even true yet!! It could be counterproductive to sit inside, as the doctors argue it may. 

 

But, we do KNOW locking down economies kills people. 

[Skallywag]

The doctor claiming "constitutional right" to go outside is untrue.  The 14th amendment to the constitution: "the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand.”

 

This Erickson also mentioned abuse, alcoholism, and depression on the rise in one video, so the lockdown is hurting people with lifelong consequences he claims.  I do not see it that way  

If abuse and mental health issues are on the rise, those problems were already there before the "shelter in place" orders were given.  You don't suddenly become a spousal or child abuser because you cannot go to work for 40 days.  It was always there.  Depression has always been there, claiming you read "data" without links, citing of that data is wrong

 

It has not been 2 months or 3 months, it has been 40 days, and there have been over 50,000 deaths in 40 days from the virus. 

Asymptomatic people will infect thousands if testing is not done before re-opening, is something said in the video that I do agree on.

Again, these are doctors and have their own experiences to relate, yet as they admit also, they do not have all the answers either  

[steelepulse]

Did anyone see the part where Norway and Sweden were compared?  They said basically there was no statistical difference in deaths between the two countries, yet the two are following completely different paths.  Based on total populations, there really is not statistical difference.

 

I also noted that the study found 90% of the people dying had co morbidities.  Could this be a reason why Italy and Spain are getting hit so hard due to the older population having other health issues?

[Skallywag]

  On 4/26/2020 at 3:13 AM, sucit said:

But, we do KNOW locking down economies kills people. 

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Have any statistics on increased death from starvation/death from poverty during the 40 days of this shutdown?  Please provide a link

If not, how do you "KNOW"  

[UbonThani]

  On 4/26/2020 at 3:16 AM, steelepulse said:

Did anyone see the part where Norway and Sweden were compared?  They said basically there was no statistical difference in deaths between the two countries, yet the two are following completely different paths.  Based on total populations, there really is not statistical difference.

 

I also noted that the study found 90% of the people dying had co morbidities.  Could this be a reason why Italy and Spain are getting hit so hard due to the older population having other health issues?

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obviously

97% in Italy were sick already plus old

[steelepulse]

I've been watching "China in Focus" on youtube.  Pretty enlightening stuff about how China has been covering up a lot of things.

 

Anyway, in this particular report, they talk about a prison in the US where they tested 2300 prisoners.  2000 were found to be positive, yet 96% were symptom free.

 

 

[sucit]

  On 4/26/2020 at 3:18 AM, Skallywag said:

Have any statistics on increased death from starvation/death from poverty during the 40 days of this shutdown?  Please provide a link

If not, how do you "KNOW"  

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Go check the stats from the great depression. Did death numbers just flat line through that time? 

 

Again, we KNOW economies shutting down and people going jobless kills people. If you need stats simply look them up yourself. 

[Skallywag]

  On 4/26/2020 at 3:31 AM, sucit said:

Go check the stats from the great depression. Did death numbers just flat line through that time? 

 

Again, we KNOW economies shutting down and people going jobless kills people. If you need stats simply look them up yourself. 

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The great depression lasted 10 years, we are just 40 days of restriction so far, big difference

[cornishcarlos]

  On 4/26/2020 at 3:21 AM, UbonThani said:

obviously

97% in Italy were sick already plus old

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83% of the deaths in Italy were 70yrs old and up allegedly... 

Chances of the majority of them having an underlying health issue is quite high.