Joe Rogan releases podcast with Trump, draws 300K views in 30 minutes

[Greenhill]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

 

The claim was Palestinians want a Islamic Sharia state. Not true.

You prove your own case!!!!!!!      By your quote above, Hamas does not recognise ANY form of the State of Israel!!    Did you read your own post??

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, Greenhill said:

You prove your own case!!!!!!!      By your quote above, Hamas does not recognise ANY form of the State of Israel!!    Did you read your own post??

You're not making sense.

[sanemax]

14 minutes ago, stevenl said:

 

The claim was Palestinians want a Islamic Sharia state. Not true.

From the 1988 Hamas Charter 

The last sentence renders the latest charter to be null and void 

 

This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement.

It happened like this: When the leaders of the Islamic armies conquered Syria and Iraq, they sent to the Caliph of the Moslems, Umar bin-el-Khatab, asking for his advice concerning the conquered land - whether they should divide it among the soldiers, or leave it for its owners, or what? After consultations and discussions between the Caliph of the Moslems, Omar bin-el-Khatab and companions of the Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, it was decided that the land should be left with its owners who could benefit by its fruit. As for the real ownership of the land and the land itself, it should be consecrated for Moslem generations till Judgement Day. Those who are on the land, are there only to benefit from its fruit. This Waqf remains as long as earth and heaven remain. Any procedure in contradiction to Islamic Sharia, where Palestine is concerned, is null and void.

 

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

[dexterm]

I notice so far no-one has addressed the huge elephant in the room with Israel's annexation: what to do with 2.8 million Palestinians who have been resident in the West Bank and Israel itself for generations.

What's it to be?

- Equal citizenship with a bicameral 50:50 Jewish:non Jewish parliament.
- Apartheid (Trumps plan) Palestinians completely surrounded in bantustans, lives 100% controlled by Israel but without equal voting rights.
- Ethnic cleansing v3.0, as in 48 and 67.

 

Israel wants 3 things: the West Bank, a democratic state, and a Jewish state. It can only have two of them.

 

This is another Trump covfefe but one which I am pleased will ultimately bring about a single state solution probably via a painful period of overt apartheid, as Zionism continues to dig a deeper hole for itself.

[dexterm]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full

 

"8. The following are considered null and void: the Balfour Declaration, the British Mandate Document, the UN Palestine Partition Resolution, and whatever resolutions and measures that derive from them or are similar to them. The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah"

 

 

9. There shall be no recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist entity. Whatever has befallen the land of Palestine in terms of occupation, settlement building, judaisation or changes to its features or falsification of facts is illegitimate. Rights never lapse

>>There shall be no recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist entity.

You misrepresent the Hamas 2017 charter.

 

..Hamas (and I too) want to see an end to the Zionist entity, with no animosity towards Israeli Jews. The present racist supremacist Zionist state of Israel can only exist by manufacturing a phony Jewish majority, by not allowing Palestinian refugees who were born there to return to their homes. In the 21st century you cannot have a country where one group of people dominate another based purely on race/religion.
 

Edited April 27, 2020 by dexterm

[dexterm]

2 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

mate - some posters here have literally know idea what they are talking about - clearly.

To claim that Hamas or Hezbollah or PLO or any bordering Arab Nation has formally accepted the existence of Isreal - is ridiculous and proof of their ignorance about what has been and is still happening. 

I dont blame them - that is what they are 'told' by the media - same about Trump - distortions and half-truths and outright lies.

 

>>mate - some posters here have literally know idea what they are talking about - clearly.
To claim that Hamas or Hezbollah or PLO or any bordering Arab Nation has formally accepted the existence of Isreal - is ridiculous and proof of their ignorance about what has been and is still happening. 

 

Wrong!

"How Many Times Must the Palestinians Recognize Israel?
Netanyahu’s new 'Jewish state' mantra negates the fact that Palestinians recognized Israel more than twenty years ago. They’re still waiting for Israel to recognize Palestine."
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.579701
 
Yasser Arafat recognized Israel's right to exist as far back as 1988, and repeated it in writing in 1993 at the Oslo Peace Accords. Read Arafat's letter of recognition to Israeli PM Rabin here.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/recogn.html

[simple1]

2 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

Completely false analogy. There never was a country called Palestine. <SNIP>

Completely false analogy - disagree relevant hypothesis.

 

Never claimed there was a country called Palestine, but definitely a Province of Palestine ruled for centuries by Muslims - with a Muslim majority population. Even at the time of the declaration of the State of Israel there was a majority Muslim population. The Partition of Palestine was a forgone conclusion for regional conflict, of which the various nations were well aware.

 

 

[dexterm]

2 hours ago, Greenhill said:

Have you heard of any credible Palestinian peace plan????   On what basis are you making your comment?

The Palestinian peace plan has been on the table for decades, and endorsed by all surrounding Arab countries plus Iran, with the Arab Peace Initiative (2002)  re-endorsed in 2007.

 

It spelled out a complete solution: borders based explicitly on the UN borders established before the 1967 Six-Day War (with some land swaps). It offered full normalization of relations with Israel (commerce, ambassadors, tourism), in exchange for the withdrawal of its forces from all the occupied territories, including the Golan Heights, to recognize "an independent Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital" in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, as well as a "just solution" for the Palestinian refugees.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_conflict#Arab_Peace_Initiative

The Israeli government under Ariel Sharon rejected the initiative as a "non-starter".

 

The Palestinian Authority led by Yasser Arafat immediately embraced the initiative.His successor Mahmoud Abbas also supported the plan and officially asked U.S. President Barack Obama to adopt it as part of his Middle East policy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

 

As Israel drifts into open apartheid via Trump and Netanyahu's annexation plan, there will perhaps come a day when Israel will be begging the Palestinians to restore this intiative for a two state solution. It is the only way that Israel can have a state with a predominantly Jewish population and still remain a democracy.

[dexterm]

7 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Completely false analogy - disagree relevant hypothesis.

 

Never claimed there was a country called Palestine, but definitely a Province of Palestine ruled for centuries by Muslims - with a Muslim majority population. Even at the time of the declaration of the State of Israel there was a majority Muslim population. The Partition of Palestine was a forgone conclusion for regional conflict, of which the various nations were well aware.

 

 

Despite all the ethnic cleansing, all the discriminatory Israeli immigration laws, all the waves of mainly European Jewish immigration over the last century, Palestinians still today are the majority population in historic Palestine from the Jordan to the Med. Time is on their side.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

Personally don't think the Jews had any 'right' to take over Arab land in 1948, but past is past, my opinion won't change anything. A fact check for you, Europeans first landed in Oz in 1606.

Do you think that Jews living on the land at the time ,over half a million Jews living on the land before the formation of Israel, had the right to live on the land 

[dexterm]

2 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

Completely false analogy. There never was a country called Palestine.  It was a part of Jordan who lost it in the war. The war that some Arab nations started to remove Israel by force.  They lost the war and some lands.  You are completely fooled by the media provided information - try doing more research.  Try reading this reasonably balanced website : quote-

 

"Did the Arab governments help from a humanitarian point of view? Not particularly. The Palestinians have remained unpopular in large parts of the Arab world. When Egypt was in control of Gaza, from 1949 into 1967, Gaza Arabs were rarely allowed to travel into Egypt. After the first Gulf war in 1991, Kuwait expelled 250,000 Palestinians. Only Jordan allows Palestinians to become citizens. Elsewhere in the Arab world they are not permitted to become citizens. Even in Jordan, war broke out, suppressed by the Jordanian government. The Palestinian-Israeli conflict has been a superbly effective scapegoat and distraction for the Arab masses, who rank very poorly in the UN’s human development index in relation to the rest of the world."

 

https://ethicalfocus.org/the-israel-palestinian-conflict-each-sides-contrasting-narratives/

Well, that's all very odd because 4 of Israel's Prime Ministers (Allon,Rabin,Sharon,Olmert) and the current President (Rivlin) all have Palestine written on their birth certificates.

The 6 others were born in Russia, Poland, or Ukraine.

And only one, Netanyahu, was born in Israel (after of course Zionists renamed Palestine). His father was Polish and his grandmother Lithuanian.

 

What's in a name? When Israel annexes the West Bank and it becomes a single state with one man one vote for Palestinians, they can call it what they like: Israelistine, Palisrael. Who cares as long as it brings peace.

[sanemax]

12 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Well, that's all very odd because 4 of Israel's Prime Ministers (Allon,Rabin,Sharon,Olmert) and the current President (Rivlin) all have Palestine written on their birth certificates.

Yes, they were all born on the land and as leaders of the Country, they can call the Country what they want to call it

[simple1]

21 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Do you think that Jews living on the land at the time ,over half a million Jews living on the land before the formation of Israel, had the right to live on the land 

I guess one can compare to a degree today's Chinese activities with acquiring land in foreign countries. Jewish Colonisation Fund Association speaks volumes doesn't it, but Partition really put the cat among the pigeons.

Edited April 27, 2020 by simple1

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

From the 1988 Hamas Charter 

The last sentence renders the latest charter to be null and void 

 

This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement.

It happened like this: When the leaders of the Islamic armies conquered Syria and Iraq, they sent to the Caliph of the Moslems, Umar bin-el-Khatab, asking for his advice concerning the conquered land - whether they should divide it among the soldiers, or leave it for its owners, or what? After consultations and discussions between the Caliph of the Moslems, Omar bin-el-Khatab and companions of the Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, it was decided that the land should be left with its owners who could benefit by its fruit. As for the real ownership of the land and the land itself, it should be consecrated for Moslem generations till Judgement Day. Those who are on the land, are there only to benefit from its fruit. This Waqf remains as long as earth and heaven remain. Any procedure in contradiction to Islamic Sharia, where Palestine is concerned, is null and void.

 

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Please, let's stick to the present situation and leave your dogma's out of this.

 

There is a 2017 charter, end of.

[Sujo]

The fact is thst it is not israels land to claim. What are israels borders.

 

To be a country you must have borders. What are they.

 

200 countries recognize palestine as a country.

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Please, let's stick to the present situation and leave your dogma's out of this.

 

There is a 2017 charter, end of.

The old Charter wasnt voided by the new one though and the old charter voided the newer one 

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, Sujo said:

The fact is thst it is not israels land to claim. What are israels borders.

 

To be a country you must have borders. What are they.

 

200 countries recognize palestine as a country.

Find a map to find Israels border .

200 Countries do not recognise Palestine as a Country , the figure is 138

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, sanemax said:

Lets not forget that its the Palestinians themselves who rejected statehood in 1948 and the Palestinians want the whole of Israel to be an Islamic state governed by Sharia law , although they will allow Jews to live there , which is kind of them 

Try getting it right. The "Palestinians" were ruled by Jordan. They had no say.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

Completely false analogy. There never was a country called Palestine

Oh, so the Romans DIDN'T call it Palestine after all then! 555555555555

A 30 second google search proves you wrong.

 

Seems like Netanyahu thinks he can sneak this through while most countries are having a few problems with their citizens dying of Corona virus. I expect nothing less of the man, and can't say what I think of him on here.

Edited April 27, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Try getting it right. The "Palestinians" were ruled by Jordan. They had no say.

 

Incorrect , the Palestinan Arabs rejected the offer and they were not ruled by Jordan 

[Mavideol]

Just now, sanemax said:

Incorrect , the Palestinan Arabs rejected the offer and they were not ruled by Jordan 

and I didn't see any facts yet, just a lot of blablabla

[Mavideol]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Oh, so the Romans DIDN'T call it Palestine after all then! 555555555555

A 30 second google search proves you wrong.

100% correct 

The province of Judaea was renamed Syria Palaestina (later simply called Palaestina)

 

https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/Roman-Palestine

 

Under the Ottoman Empire (1517-1917), the term Palestine was used as a general term to describe the land south of Syria;

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Mavideol

[candide]

2 hours ago, dexterm said:

I notice so far no-one has addressed the huge elephant in the room with Israel's annexation: what to do with 2.8 million Palestinians who have been resident in the West Bank and Israel itself for generations.

What's it to be?

- Equal citizenship with a bicameral 50:50 Jewish:non Jewish parliament.
- Apartheid (Trumps plan) Palestinians completely surrounded in bantustans, lives 100% controlled by Israel but without equal voting rights.
- Ethnic cleansing v3.0, as in 48 and 67.

 

Israel wants 3 things: the West Bank, a democratic state, and a Jewish state. It can only have two of them.

 

This is another Trump covfefe but one which I am pleased will ultimately bring about a single state solution probably via a painful period of overt apartheid, as Zionism continues to dig a deeper hole for itself.

You raise one of the key issues. In particular, if the Trump/Netanyahu plan is implemented, it will leave a Palestinian entity which is not economically viable. There is no way it can be sustainable as such a fragmented entity, deprived of the most affluent parts of Palestine, in particular the Jordan valley.

[dexterm]

17 minutes ago, candide said:

You raise one of the key issues. In particular, if the Trump/Netanyahu plan is implemented, it will leave a Palestinian entity which is not economically viable. There is no way it can be sustainable as such a fragmented entity, deprived of the most affluent parts of Palestine, in particular the Jordan valley.

I agree. The Trump/Netanyahu plan is the final nail in the coffin of the long moribund two state solution. So if no two state solution, ergo   a single democratic state with equal rights for all.

Edited April 27, 2020 by dexterm

[thaibeachlovers]

41 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Incorrect , the Palestinan Arabs rejected the offer and they were not ruled by Jordan 

Apologies, I believed it was part of Transjordan but that was not so. However, it was ruled by Britain which was pro Zionist and intended since before WW2 to create a Jewish state. In the end, they just gave up and let the UN decide. The Americans also desired a Jewish state in Palestine.

The Arab Palestinians were royally screwed by everyone involved, IMO. I very much doubt they had any sort of say in what happened to them, so IMO it is wrong to say that they had any power when it came to deciding on their future. Of course they opposed the theft of their land. Would you not also do that if a foreign power came and took YOUR land away from you.

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, dexterm said:

I agree. The Trump/Netanyahu plan is the final nail in the coffin of the long moribund two state solution. So if no two state solution, ergo   a single democratic state with equal rights for all.

Equal rights? Not going to happen.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, stevenl said:

Equal rights? Not going to happen.

Apartheid then? That might just be the one thing needed to rouse world opinion against Israel.

[dexterm]

17 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Equal rights? Not going to happen.

That's what was said in previous historical instances where a minority group has attempted to dominate the indigenous majority purely on the grounds of race or religion.

 

Trump's blundering and sycophancy has hastened Zionism's demise. I think we are headed for the next phase of the struggle which will be directed against Israel's overt apartheid formalized by the OP annexation.

 

At that point I expect the EU, Israel's main trading partner, will finally stop mouthing platitudes about "unacceptable behavior", and finally get off its butt and impose sanctions..the only thing that will bring Israel to its senses.

 

“The arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice.” (Martin Luther King, Jr.)

Edited April 27, 2020 by dexterm

[AussieBob18]

2 hours ago, dexterm said:

>>mate - some posters here have literally know idea what they are talking about - clearly.
To claim that Hamas or Hezbollah or PLO or any bordering Arab Nation has formally accepted the existence of Isreal - is ridiculous and proof of their ignorance about what has been and is still happening. 

Wrong!

"How Many Times Must the Palestinians Recognize Israel?
Netanyahu’s new 'Jewish state' mantra negates the fact that Palestinians recognized Israel more than twenty years ago. They’re still waiting for Israel to recognize Palestine."
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.579701
 Yasser Arafat recognized Israel's right to exist as far back as 1988, and repeated it in writing in 1993 at the Oslo Peace Accords. Read Arafat's letter of recognition to Israeli PM Rabin here.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/recogn.html

Yes you are wrong !

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization

Quote:  In 1993, the PLO recognized Israel's right to exist in peace, accepted UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, and rejected "violence and terrorism". In response, Israel officially recognized the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people.[17] However, the PLO has employed violence in the years since 1993, particularly during the 2000–2005 Second Intifada. On 29 October 2018, the Palestinian Central Council suspended the recognition of Israel and halted security and economic coordination in all its forms with it.[18]

 

 

There is fault on both sides, but it is hard to go past what the PLO did at the Munich Olympics in 1972. 

The PLO are terrorists - period:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_political_violence

Learn their history and you will know why most other Arab states do not recognise them, and Jordan was so easy to give up them and their land to Israel.

 

 

 

[JAG]

11 hours ago, TheDark said:

Netanyahu's plan to annex West Bank is similar to Putin's Annexation of Crimea and continuous war on East Ukraine. Horrific and illegal actions. 

 

It's time for the rest of the world to place very heavy sanctions against Israel. Ban their travel, stop trade with Israel and freeze Israel's and people of Israel assets around the world.

Rather like they have with Putin's Russia then?