Interesting take from Sweden

[steelepulse]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoGp9vgeGRc

 

Interesting numbers.

 

42% of deaths occur in nursing homes.

 

Average age of deaths across the country marked covid is 81 years old.

 

"Sweden isn't the experiment, the rest of the world is" is how JOhan Norberg describes this towards the very end of the video.

 

He does bring up a lot of interesting points to consider as to why Sweden has let society carry on with a few precautions put in place, vs a total lockdown.  One thing he thinks is that all countries on lockdown will see a second wave, while Sweden will not.

 

 

 

[Rookiescot]

How is Sweden doing in comparison with Norway? 

[Surelynot]

He might be wrong about no second wave. There are indications that contracting the virus does not confer immunity.........that being the case Sweden could be in big trouble, unless of course all the people likely to die from the virus all die in the first wave!

[TheDark]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

How is Sweden doing in comparison with Norway? 

Sweden is not doing well when compared to the neighboring countries.

 

Note these are numbers per million people, which is the correct way to show statistics when populations differ between countries. 

 

 

 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

He might be wrong about no second wave. There are indications that contracting the virus does not confer immunity.........that being the case Sweden could be in big trouble, unless of course all the people likely to die from the virus all die in the first wave!

I think virus mutations are supposed to be weaker than the original.

It would be indeed very puzzling if a second wave would be stronger, but i agree with you about the uncertainty about the immunity.

I don't think that Sweden will be in big trouble, well, i think they chose the best strategy imho.

[Phulublub]

14 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

He might be wrong about no second wave. There are indications that contracting the virus does not confer immunity.........that being the case Sweden could be in big trouble, unless of course all the people likely to die from the virus all die in the first wave!

If no immunity, we are ALL in big trouble.

 

PH 

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Phulublub said:

If no immunity, we are ALL in big trouble.

 

PH 

Quite so, although I understand if a vaccine is developed it will confer much greater immunity than simply having contracted the virus itself......some hope at least!

[Surelynot]

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I think virus mutations are supposed to be weaker than the original.

It would be indeed very puzzling if a second wave would be stronger, but i agree with you about the uncertainty about the immunity.

I don't think that Sweden will be in big trouble, well, i think they chose the best strategy imho.

As with all of this only time will tell. My worry is this 96% asymptomatic figure from the USA jails.....some hail it as good news, but for the over 70's it is a death sentence.

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

As with all of this only time will tell. My worry is this 96% asymptomatic figure from the USA jails.....some hail it as good news, but for the over 70's it is a death sentence.

Not necessarily, but surely elders will have to be careful, but that is normal for elders anyway, isn't it.

 

[TheDark]

21 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I think virus mutations are supposed to be weaker than the original.

It would be indeed very puzzling if a second wave would be stronger, but i agree with you about the uncertainty about the immunity.

I don't think that Sweden will be in big trouble, well, i think they chose the best strategy imho.

It's good that you write down what you think. It gives others to correct wrong believes.

 

That's false. Mutations happen all the time. It was the original mutation which allowed this coronavirus spread the virus from person to perso.

 

There are probably a large amount of different mutations, which has gone unnoticed as those don't make people more sick. But there are also some mutations / strains of the covid-19 virus, which are thought to be a lot more deadly than the original one.

 

When it comes to immunity, afaik, nobody really knows if there is immunity and if the immunity covers the dangerous traits of the virus or not.

[UbonThani]

34 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

He might be wrong about no second wave. There are indications that contracting the virus does not confer immunity.........that being the case Sweden could be in big trouble, unless of course all the people likely to die from the virus all die in the first wave!

what people?

[UbonThani]

2 minutes ago, TheDark said:

It's good that you write down what you think. It gives others to correct wrong believes.

 

That's false. Mutations happen all the time. It was the original mutation which allowed this coronavirus spread the virus from person to perso.

 

There are probably a large amount of different mutations, which has gone unnoticed as those don't make people more sick. But there are also some mutations / strains of the covid-19 virus, which are thought to be a lot more deadly than the original one.

 

When it comes to immunity, afaik, nobody really knows if there is immunity and if the immunity covers the dangerous traits of the virus or not.

old sick people die everyday from flus etc

 

[yuyiinthesky]

35 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

He might be wrong about no second wave.

 

He might be right and no second wave for Sweden.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, TheDark said:

It's good that you write down what you think. It gives others to correct wrong believes.

 

That's false. Mutations happen all the time. It was the original mutation which allowed this coronavirus spread the virus from person to perso.

 

There are probably a large amount of different mutations, which has gone unnoticed as those don't make people more sick. But there are also some mutations / strains of the covid-19 virus, which are thought to be a lot more deadly than the original one.

 

When it comes to immunity, afaik, nobody really knows if there is immunity and if the immunity covers the dangerous traits of the virus or not.

Your scaremongering is for me like water on a duck's back.

Feel free to live and die in fear, and ask yourself what are you gaining in spreading the fear.

[UbonThani]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

Your scaremongering is for me like water on a duck's back.

Feel free to live and die in fear, and ask yourself what are you gaining in spreading the fear.

These people never really live.

[mauGR1]

Just now, UbonThani said:

These people never really live.

Unbelievable isn't it, the funny thing is when they try to convince other people that they are right.

Mind boggling.

[UbonThani]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Unbelievable isn't it, the funny thing is when they try to convince other people that they are right.

Mind boggling.

Called socialism. They want control over people. Makes them feel better.

[Surelynot]

8 minutes ago, TheDark said:

It's good that you write down what you think. It gives others to correct wrong believes.

 

That's false. Mutations happen all the time. It was the original mutation which allowed this coronavirus spread the virus from person to perso.

 

There are probably a large amount of different mutations, which has gone unnoticed as those don't make people more sick. But there are also some mutations / strains of the covid-19 virus, which are thought to be a lot more deadly than the original one.

 

When it comes to immunity, afaik, nobody really knows if there is immunity and if the immunity covers the dangerous traits of the virus or not.

Apparently the coronaviruses aren't given to mutating (as often?) as the flu viruses and this why so much store is put in having a vaccine. Fingers crossed.

 

The thing about making some people becoming very ill seems to revolve around some receptor that is more prevalent in men, more prevalent as both sexes as they get older and more prevalent in people with hypertension and who take medicines such as amlodipine. 

[Surelynot]

11 minutes ago, UbonThani said:

what people?

Old, with hypertension and taking drugs such as amlodipine 

[nauseus]

SInce this VDO Swedish deaths have doubled.

[TheDark]

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Your scaremongering is for me like water on a duck's back.

Feel free to live and die in fear, and ask yourself what are you gaining in spreading the fear.

Science is now scaremongering? Right.. continue on the path you have selected for yourself. 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, UbonThani said:

Called socialism. They want control over people. Makes them feel better.

Well socialism as an ideal is not all wrong, but living with the constant fear of dying certainly is, imho.

[yuyiinthesky]

40 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I don't think that Sweden will be in big trouble, well, i think they chose the best strategy imho.

Fully agree ????

[Surelynot]

12 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

 

He might be right and no second wave for Sweden.

Hence the comment only time will tell

[yuyiinthesky]

56 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoGp9vgeGRc

Thanks for posting this.

It seems to be that the Swedes are the only reasonable people left on this planet.

[GroveHillWanderer]

51 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I think virus mutations are supposed to be weaker than the original.

There's no "supposed to" about it.  Some mutations are weaker, some are't.

 

44 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

If no immunity, we are ALL in big trouble.

I don't think anyone is saying there is no immunity.  The WHO put out a statement that there was no evidence that having the virus once, prevented a person from getting it again. Critics of this statement (including some eminent scientists) claim that the wording of the announcement is too extreme and should be amended to say that there is not "sufficient evidence" to show exactly what the risk of re-infection is. 

 

It is the case that various data seem to suggest that the immune response to SARS-Cov-2 may be weaker and less long-lived than many had hoped. People do develop antibodies, just not necessarily at a very high level nor in a long-lasting fashion. However, it's always been true that naturally-acquired immunity to many respiratory viruses is not total, nor does it last forever. It's true of colds, flu, MERS and SARS, for instance.

 

The fact that people do develop antibodies would seem to indicate they have some level of immunity, so even if people do contract the disease for a second time, there is a good chance that it may be less severe the second time around.  The downside (and this was what the WHO was stressing) is that the so-called "immunity passport" idea may not be feasible. This is because even if the person getting it a second time may not get seriously ill themselves, they could still pass it on to other people who, if they had not previously been exposed, would still be at risk of contracting a more serious (and possibly even fatal) case of the disease.

Edited April 27, 2020 by GroveHillWanderer

[papa al]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

How is Sweden doing in comparison with Norway? 

same same

[yuyiinthesky]

20 minutes ago, TheDark said:

But there are also some mutations / strains of the covid-19 virus, which are thought to be a lot more deadly than the original one.

I think this is nonsense. The impression of more deadly or not are simply created by the way deaths "from Covid-19" are mixed with deaths while also having a Corona infection, but not from Corona, are counted and put in statistics. Add to that lousy healthcare systems like in Italy and New York, killing Ventilators, and there you go.

 

 

[cornishcarlos]

21 minutes ago, nauseus said:

SInce this VDO Swedish deaths have doubled.

 

Really ?? This video first aired on 17th April when they had 1801

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105753/cumulative-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden/

 

Today they have 2194

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdUOA?Si

Edited April 27, 2020 by cornishcarlos

[brokenbone]

58 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I think virus mutations are supposed to be weaker than the original.

It would be indeed very puzzling if a second wave would be stronger, but i agree with you about the uncertainty about the immunity.

I don't think that Sweden will be in big trouble, well, i think they chose the best strategy imho.

nah, its a flip of the coin if a mutation is going to be worse or better,

actually from an evolution standpoint, the more survivable the mutation the better,

from ease of multiply to resilience

Edited April 27, 2020 by brokenbone