Rhodes Must Fall - Oxford protesters target statue of colonialist

[vogie]

There is a very easy remedy to stop the toppling of statues, just threaten the perps with, every statue that is toppled to be replaced with one of these, it would stop overnight.

 

[transam]

There are many statues of William the Conqueror in GB, does this mean this GB invader statues are doomed.....?

[JensenZ]

20 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Pity you don't know what you are talking about.

 

Hillary in his book refused to say who was first on top, saying the credit should be shared equally.

Hillary did a great deal for the benefit of the Sherpas.

 

NZ Maoris indulged in slavery and other unsavoury activities, which were stopped under British rule.

 

Don't let the facts get in the way of a rant though.

It's a pity you think you know everything. Tenzing did say who was first. He said he let Hillary take the first step to the summit.

 

In the general media he was the ONE who first climbed Everest and the one who got all the fame. Years later this was corrected by the PC brigade.  

 

As far as Maoris waring amongst themselves before Cook discovered them, which I'm well aware of... Are you suggesting that the British had to go to war with them and dispossess them of their land in order to make them civilized. That's a typical rant, or excuse from the colonial era. Save all the natives from themselves. They are all savages that need saving.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, JensenZ said:

Are you suggesting that the British had to go to war with them and dispossess them of their land 

Strange then that Maoris still own loads of NZ land.

[mistral53]

It is encouraging to see the new generation taking an interest in history, and change it to reflect the reality, not the glorification of the atrocities committed in the past. It is rapidly becoming the world of a new generation, it is just natural and healthy they take charge - it is their future, not ours (knowing most posters on here are way into expiration age)

[Logosone]

One curious thing.

 

At their inception Rhodes insisted that the Rhodes scholarship be open to people of all races. So despite his pronouncements on race, he was actually not a die-hard racist, in that he made sure blacks were eligible for his scholarship.

 

Rather unusually, for Germany was one of the main opponents for his scheme of a major railway in Africa, he also insisted that his scholarship be open to all who lived in British territories, but also to all Germans. 

 

A major compliment for Germans.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Logosone

[JensenZ]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Strange then that Maoris still own loads of NZ land.

Yes, just as the American Indians, South African Blacks, Australian Aboriginals and most dispossessed original inhabitants around the world now own "loads" of land... but it took decades and centuries of suffering to undo the injustices.

 

[Orton Rd]

1 minute ago, JensenZ said:

Yes, just as the American Indians, South African Blacks, Australian Aboriginals and most dispossessed original inhabitants around the world now own "loads" of land... but it took decades and centuries of suffering to undo the injustices.

 

They all took land off previous inhabitants, with the exception of the Australian Aboriginals, and many waged ruthless wars against their fellow tribes people, some like the Maori resorting to canibalism. They were not innocent nobel savages and victims of injustice, what they did was just as bad.

[Rimmer]

Some off topic and baiting posts have been removed

[JensenZ]

8 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

They all took land off previous inhabitants, with the exception of the Australian Aboriginals, and many waged ruthless wars against their fellow tribes people, some like the Maori resorting to canibalism. They were not innocent nobel savages and victims of injustice, what they did was just as bad.

It's irrelevant how the original inhabitants chose to live their lives. They were not Christians, so they didn't need to adhere to Christian laws such as "thou shall not eat another human being". "Innocence" is an irrelevant concept. What you're talking about is interference and imposing British morality on native inhabitants.

 

 

[grumpy 4680]

      Oxford students are supposed to be the intelligent and brightest students in the UK, Just goes to prove what a waste of money their education is, if they think changing history is the answer.

      just adding to the pathetic loonies in the world today.

[gunderhill]

17 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Probably Robert and Grace Mugabe and Winnie Mandela.

 

The honest upstanding totally not corrupt black politicians.

Who'm were doubtless  just about to turn their  lives around.

[gunderhill]

6 minutes ago, grumpy 4680 said:

      Oxford students are supposed to be the intelligent and brightest students in the UK, Just goes to prove what a waste of money their education is, if they think changing history is the answer.

      just adding to the pathetic loonies in the world today.

After  working at a University for sometime the one thing I can tell you is they may have the brains of Britain but they certainly  have no  common sense, I'm surprised many can even cross a  road.

[giddyup]

This craziness is very reminiscent of the Taliban blowing up Buddha staues in Afghanistan.

[gunderhill]

50 minutes ago, transam said:

There are many statues of William the Conqueror in GB, does this mean this GB invader statues are doomed.....?

I'm  sorry I'm deeply  offended by your'e  use of the word  "G" in *B  this is  deeply  offensive I'm almost sickened to the core, why If  I was half the  none specific  gender I used to be I'd  give you a  damn good thrashing with my feather  duster.

I want this "G" removed it's  colonialism and a disgrace.

????

[gunderhill]

4 minutes ago, giddyup said:

This craziness is very reminiscent of the Taliban blowing up Buddha staues in Afghanistan.

That REALLY was disgusting! Meanwhile I see ISIL is  happy  to sell women as  slaves.

[transam]

15 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

I'm  sorry I'm deeply  offended by your'e  use of the word  "G" in *B  this is  deeply  offensive I'm almost sickened to the core, why If  I was half the  none specific  gender I used to be I'd  give you a  damn good thrashing with my feather  duster.

I want this "G" removed it's  colonialism and a disgrace.

????

I don't quote UK any more cos there are a few Scots on here that don't want to be part of the UK, so for me, Great Britain is more apt....Even if to just wind up those shield thumpers...????

[gunderhill]

56 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

It is encouraging to see the new generation taking an interest in history, and change it to reflect the reality, not the glorification of the atrocities committed in the past. It is rapidly becoming the world of a new generation, it is just natural and healthy they take charge - it is their future, not ours (knowing most posters on here are way into expiration age)

Let's  see that take  place in Thailand whose  whole history is a mass fabrication.

When  will they be evicting the Australians from Australia, The Americans including the blacks  and giving it  all back to the Native Americans, The Spanish invaders giving back the Amazons and finally giving most of Europe  back to the  Neanderthals and Lucy in Africa.

 

[giddyup]

29 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

It's irrelevant how the original inhabitants chose to live their lives. They were not Christians, so they didn't need to adhere to Christian laws such as "thou shall not eat another human being". "Innocence" is an irrelevant concept. What you're talking about is interference and imposing British morality on native inhabitants.

 

 

It was a different world with different values. The Spanish pillaged Central and South America and converted the natives to Christianity under threat of torture. We can't be held responsible for the sins of the fathers.

[jayboy]

10 minutes ago, grumpy 4680 said:

      Oxford students are supposed to be the intelligent and brightest students in the UK, Just goes to prove what a waste of money their education is, if they think changing history is the answer.

      just adding to the pathetic loonies in the world today.

Some misconceptions here.The protestors were generally not Oxford students, most of whom are doing their studies outside the city because of the pandemic.Though I'm sure some Oxford students were there, the protestors were mainly outsiders.4 years ago when the Rhodes Must Fall movement began, polls showed only a minority of Oxford students supported the removal of the Rhodes statue.

 

Furthermore contrary to what you might think, history is not static.It's always changing and being reinterpreted.Take the First World War as an example: while the resources for study generally stay the same, historians are constantly changing their judgement.Facts in history really don't speak for themselves.It's all about perception and inevitably these reflect the prejudices and perhaps the enlightenment (ha ha) of our own age.

 

I don't have a particular issue with Rhodes statue being removed.Take it to a museum and there provide context and background for it.I can understand why the Oxford authorities don't like having their hand forced - but in these febrile times, is it really a ditch to die in?

 

There is certainly a hysteria in the air at the moment.The picture of Keir Starmer bending his knee will come back to haunt him and not in a goodway.There is also more than a little hypocrisy on the Left who I believe are feeding opportunistically on the understandable outrage of the Afro-Caribbean community.Once the hysteria starts it's difficult to know where it stops in a way the woke won't be comfortable with..For example -

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/14/racist-gandhi-statue-removed-from-university-of-ghana

 

 

To be frank I'm worried about the pushback which is inevitably coming.The Tory government is deeply flawed and the Labour Party still unelectable.There's an empty political space which throw up something very nasty, especially with the economy going down the tube.And the forces that emerge will not have "bending the knee" to racial justice on their list of priorities.

[gunderhill]

1 minute ago, transam said:

I don't quote UK any more cos there are a few Scots on here that don't want to be part of the UK, so for me, Great Britain is more apt....Even if to just wind up those shield thumpers...????

Once  again I refuse to read that "U"  part, being 13.5% Scottish I'm appalled by your vile language and want no  part even of  my own 86.4% K part and then again I resent the K part too  it should be a Queendom or a Transdom (surely  that would suit  you), I'm so offended, oh  lordy, I'm  not going to make it through the day today.

[JensenZ]

10 minutes ago, giddyup said:

It was a different world with different values. The Spanish pillaged Central and South America and converted the natives to Christianity under threat of torture. We can't be held responsible for the sins of the fathers.

My reply was in reference to comments that the British went there and saved them from their savagery, so they did a good thing. Yes, eventually they did become Westernized, but the British went there to grab their land. In all cases the natives were collateral damage. The missionaries did think they were doing good.

 

 

[gunderhill]

17 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Hardly a bottom feeder. Tommy Robinson uneducated, Ndjodi Ndeunyema educated.

 

At present, Ndjodi is Research Director for the Oxford Human Rights Hub and serves as a founding Editor of the University of Oxford Human Rights Hub Journal. He is an Editor of the Oxford University Commonwealth Law Journal and was previously a Research Officer with Oxford Pro Bono Publico. https://www.law.ox.ac.uk/people/ndjodi-ndeunyema

An educated bottom feeder then, although they do say the scum layer  floats to the top.

Edited June 11, 2020 by gunderhill

[Rookiescot]

I suppose if we are not allowed to remove statues because "Its part of history" we better dig out Jimmy Savile's old sculpture and stick it back on the plinth.

[Hanaguma]

We all have to start from a common point. That common point should be that when someone claims to be offended by something they see, the only proper response is, "go <deleted> yourself". Unless i am mistaken, we are all at least 6 generations removed from Rhodes and his activities.  Nobody's grandparents' grandparents were alive at that time.  In short, get over yourselves, people!  The endless nitpicking and desperation to maintain social status by Olympic level competitive grievance-mongering has to stop. 

 

I wouldn't care if the Germans decided to put up a 100 metre Hitler statue in the middle of Auschwitz.  If you don't like it, don't look at it. Don't go there. Boycott the country.  Just don't be precious, and even worst, don't be boring.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I suppose if we are not allowed to remove statues because "Its part of history" we better dig out Jimmy Savile's old sculpture and stick it back on the plinth.

Jimmy Saville has nothing to do with a country's history, only his own. ????

 

 

[VocalNeal]

59 minutes ago, grumpy 4680 said:

Oxford students are supposed to be the intelligent and brightest students in the UK, Just goes to prove what a waste of money their education is, if they think changing history is the answer.

There are two Universities in Oxford. Oxford proper and Brookes University which is an ex-polytechnic and actually in Headington, a suburb.  

If students from Brookes go to downtown Oxford and try to pull down an Oxford statue there might be an inter university scuffle. 

Do we know from which "Oxford" university the said statue defacer are ?

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Jimmy Saville has nothing to do with a country's history, only his own. ????

 

 

Of course he was. His existence and indeed his philanthropy are well documented. 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Of course he was. His existence and indeed his philanthropy are well documented. 

Yeh, like a couple of dodgy SNP blokes.....Is there a "bust" of them too..?  ????

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Yeh, like a couple of dodgy SNP blokes.....Is there a "bust" of them too..?  ????

I'm unaware of whom you are referring to.

Perhaps you could enlighten us.