bull farm

[kingofthemountain]

16 minutes ago, Kallemann said:

later on, when gets more cattle, can buy more and more land, (in my WIFES name).

No need to specify

in most of the cases ''we'' buy land means the farang brings the money

and the wife brings her name on the chanote, there is not really legal

other choices anyway

Edited June 22, 2020 by kingofthemountain

[Grumpy one]

Just give the in laws an ATM card that has access to all your money, no need to worry about raising cattle

Stay in Norway and be happy 

[Kallemann]

2 minutes ago, farang51 said:

Besides all the practical stuff others have warned you about:

 

How much time do you spend in Thailand a year?

Are your inlaws open to new ideas and new ways of doing things?

 

I know nothing about farming or farmers but as I understand, Thais can be very stubborn when it comes to new ideas, especially farmers that have done things their way for generations. If you are not there all the time to "tell them what and how to do", you may find they do it their way when you are in Norway. So, next time you come to Thailand, you may see 20 thin cows instead of 4 thin cows.

when not COVID19, normaly i in thai 4-6 month a year.

well, last time when i was there, we talk and discussed this project over 3 weeks. i told them  clearly, that they have to do as i say, but they can offcourse come with input, and i will listen and we resonable discus if they not agree with my way to do this.

we have agreement of that everything shall be nice and clean, or else i will finnish the project.

 

and i know they will be happy if they can do better quality, less work, and easier maintenance. so yes, i think they will do their best for do this right. 

[Kallemann]

3 minutes ago, Grumpy one said:

Just give the in laws an ATM card that has access to all your money, no need to worry about raising cattle

Stay in Norway and be happy 

Hi GRUMPY one.
they are really not interested in my money...

[kingofthemountain]

2 minutes ago, Kallemann said:

we resonable discus if they not agree with my way to do this.

555 do you know the ''thai style'' about a ''discussion''?

3 minutes ago, Kallemann said:

we have agreement of that everything shall be nice and clean, or else i will finnish the project

do you mean including for your relation with your girlfriend?

[kingofthemountain]

4 minutes ago, Kallemann said:

Hi GRUMPY one.
they are really not interested in my money...

Of course they are not

on the other hand, if you ask them in a gentle and polite way

they should accept your generous funding project

Edited June 22, 2020 by kingofthemountain

[Kallemann]

@kingofthemountain funny man, huh?

Edited June 22, 2020 by Kallemann
needed a tag

[kingofthemountain]

6 minutes ago, Kallemann said:

@kingofthemountain funny man, huh?

Not really

just someone with a little ''experience''

17 rai also, growing rice. all was fine on the family project

untill everything go south for some reasons

i have lost more than 2 millions bahts in the ''dream'' and my girlfriend.

On the other hand i have always my name on a chanote somewhere in the north

unfortunately it's totally useless now.

You have already had all the advices here on the topic

now as usual in Thailand it's ''up to you''

good luck and please let us know how it's turn in the future

we rarely have up dates here, i wonder why...

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by kingofthemountain

[Kallemann]

i am sorry to hear that, king.

what "chanote" meens? i can not translate that. my english not too much good.

 

i will be thinking and concerning all the critical thoughts i have , and advice i get here before start doing anything.

 

i hope my dream i do-able, but i need to rely on my inlaws while i`m in Norway, and they drifting the farm.

so yes, have to be critical.

 

i will keep update how it will work out, if i go with the plan.

 

[kingofthemountain]

1 minute ago, Kallemann said:

i am sorry to hear that, king.

what "chanote" meens? i can not translate that. my english not too much good.

 

i will be thinking and concerning all the critical thoughts i have , and advice i get here before start doing anything.

 

i hope my dream i do-able, but i need to rely on my inlaws while i`m in Norway, and they drifting the farm.

so yes, have to be critical.

 

i will keep update how it will work out, if i go with the plan.

 

No problems, for me all is forgiven as it was also partialy my fault

and the failure was coming partialy from outside uncontrollable elements

(Drought, flood, end of the public subsidies and so on)

 

the chanote is the oficial title deed for a land

it's deliver by the land office and only a Thai can own a land in Thailand

but you can have beside the Thai name your foreign name on the title

it gives you very little ''guarantee'' but it's better than nothing.

 

Honestly i wish you the best of luck, but take your time and don't try to do the Thais

happy with a ''foreign'' point of view, most of the time in the rural areas they are already

happy with their life, they do the same things since hundreds of years and they seen

every change as a risk, and the farmers don't like the risks.

if you decide to try it, be sure to be successfull or you will be blamed and as i said you should

lost your money AND your girlfriend. 

Also particularly in Thailand don't do project for the 10 or 20 next years

Thai people have difficulties to see more than the next day, and there is 

good reasons for it, all can change suddenly in a good or a bad way

 

 

[Kallemann]

thank you.

 

i know many old people here in norway, is afraid of changes, because they done it "this way for all the time". but when they see the changes to more modern, effective +++ they agree the new and modern way actually is good. but offcourse, some of the old guys are stubbern and will not confess they like the new way...

 

we will see what i find out about this, at least i have many thinking and considering to do know....

 

and about my wife, i will always tell her and be open, and discuss what i am thinking, and why i am thinking how to do things at farm, and the intension about this project, so hopefully she will be on my side if things go south.

but blood is thicker than water...

[Silent Number]

1 hour ago, kingofthemountain said:

No need to specify

in most of the cases ''we'' buy land means the farang brings the money

and the wife brings her name on the chanote, there is not really legal

other choices anyway

Eggsactly forget the negative feedback give it a go without spending more you can afford to lose fence  the 17 rai into maybe 3 paddocks and shift your cattle from one to another before it’s all eaten out .....Try buffalo grass it’s hardy likes heat and is fairly drought resistant not everyone gets done by a scheming Thai lady there are good ones, yours may be one. Take the risk you only live once. Good luck.

[Kallemann]

1 minute ago, Silent Number said:

Eggsactly forget the negative feedback give it a go without spending more you can afford to lose fence  the 17 rai into maybe 3 paddocks and shift your cattle from one to another before it’s all eaten out .....Try buffalo grass it’s hardy likes heat and is fairly drought resistant not everyone gets done by a scheming Thai lady there are good ones, yours may be one. Take the risk you only live once. Good luck.

thanks.

i really not think my wife and inlaws are scheming people.

buffalo grass, i will read more about that.

you have any experience of mulato II grass?

i read that 2/3 mulato II and 1/3 Ubon Stylo will be a good mix.

how much cattle can have on 17Rai, if have luck with growing buffalo grass?

[Silent Number]

51 minutes ago, Kallemann said:

thanks.

i really not think my wife and inlaws are scheming people.

buffalo grass, i will read more about that.

you have any experience of mulato II grass?

i read that 2/3 mulato II and 1/3 Ubon Stylo will be a good mix.

how much cattle can have on 17Rai, if have luck with growing buffalo grass?

As a rule 1 head of Cattle to every 2 rai if you cultivate pasture and rotate paddocks maybe more under good conditions but best to not overstock in case of dry weather so under that scale and conditions 8 head good cultivation.

[Kallemann]

8 minutes ago, Silent Number said:

As a rule 1 head of Cattle to every 2 rai if you cultivate pasture and rotate paddocks maybe more under good conditions but best to not overstock in case of dry weather so under that scale and conditions 8 head good cultivation.

thank you ???? 

[IsaanAussie]

1 hour ago, Kallemann said:

we have agreement of that everything shall be nice and clean, or else i will finnish the project.

You need to rethink this statement and other "my Way Or the Highway" comments. How will you finish it? Stop supplying funding? So what? They will continue to farm as Thai farmers always have, they will use what they have. 

It would not stop (if they like doing it) it will continue under "new" management. 

[bwpage3]

5 hours ago, Kallemann said:

@Michael Hare , Thanks. Good tips.

 

not easy to grow grass in thai?

because of long time of dry and rain season?

Besides feeding the cattle, you need to have water.

 

Water is a big issue in the dry season, where the ground is so hot/dry it cracks in the heat.

 

Without a pond or lake or constant water supply from a well, this idea will not work.

 

My wife and I own a large rice field (19 rai). It is maintained by my father in law. Over the years, this rice farm has never earned us US $1. The cost of planting, plowing, maintaining, harvesting. Then the rice goes to feed an extended family of around 100 people. Few bags are sold so my father in law has some cash in his pocket. Every year I send back money to plant and get the new crop rolling.

 

You are thinking about your retirement plan already, never realizing everyone in your wife's family will be retiring with NOTHING. They will look to you for financial support in their elder years.

 

I have bought my brother in law a farm truck and large tractor so that he can earn a living working with those. I never expected to see a return on those either. However he is able to find jobs and earn a living and help support my father in law as well.

 

You have a grand theme in your head about retiring to Thailand, that is only a dream. If it was easy, everyone could do it. But it is almost impossible until you try it.

 

I lived in Thailand for 10 years. I thought the same, well a farm can bring in income. I was wrong. Back to working in corporate America.

 

A whole herd can be wiped out with a virus, flood, drought, etc. then you lost it all.

 

You need to review a few years of weather for that area. In the great floods of 2011, many livestock drowned in the fields due to the flood.

 

Also I left Thailand in 2014, moved back to US. When I visited Thailand again Dec 2019, the place had changed so much. Air pollution is taking over. Traffic even worse. Costs much higher.

 

Can anyone even predict what Thailand will be like in 20 years? Choking pollution like Shanghai China? Who can plan that far in advance in a third world country with a gov't famous for lining it's own pockets and NOT solving any of the countries problems?

 

 

[Kallemann]

51 minutes ago, IsaanAussie said:

You need to rethink this statement and other "my Way Or the Highway" comments. How will you finish it? Stop supplying funding? So what? They will continue to farm as Thai farmers always have, they will use what they have. 

It would not stop (if they like doing it) it will continue under "new" management. 

It is not my way or the highway.

I just say like that here on forum so you guys understand i will be strict about how thing is done...

I have very good dialog with my inlaws, and we speak softly. 

[Kallemann]

16 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Besides feeding the cattle, you need to have water.

 

Water is a big issue in the dry season, where the ground is so hot/dry it cracks in the heat.

 

Without a pond or lake or constant water supply from a well, this idea will not work.

 

My wife and I own a large rice field (19 rai). It is maintained by my father in law. Over the years, this rice farm has never earned us US $1. The cost of planting, plowing, maintaining, harvesting. Then the rice goes to feed an extended family of around 100 people. Few bags are sold so my father in law has some cash in his pocket. Every year I send back money to plant and get the new crop rolling.

 

You are thinking about your retirement plan already, never realizing everyone in your wife's family will be retiring with NOTHING. They will look to you for financial support in their elder years.

 

I have bought my brother in law a farm truck and large tractor so that he can earn a living working with those. I never expected to see a return on those either. However he is able to find jobs and earn a living and help support my father in law as well.

 

You have a grand theme in your head about retiring to Thailand, that is only a dream. If it was easy, everyone could do it. But it is almost impossible until you try it.

 

I lived in Thailand for 10 years. I thought the same, well a farm can bring in income. I was wrong. Back to working in corporate America.

 

A whole herd can be wiped out with a virus, flood, drought, etc. then you lost it all.

 

You need to review a few years of weather for that area. In the great floods of 2011, many livestock drowned in the fields due to the flood.

 

Also I left Thailand in 2014, moved back to US. When I visited Thailand again Dec 2019, the place had changed so much. Air pollution is taking over. Traffic even worse. Costs much higher.

 

Can anyone even predict what Thailand will be like in 20 years? Choking pollution like Shanghai China? Who can plan that far in advance in a third world country with a gov't famous for lining it's own pockets and NOT solving any of the countries problems?

 

 

They already drill for water with their shed for cow. And there is also a pond very close to shed. 15 meters. Offcourse no one can predict what will happen next  year. Not even tmrw. 

What shall i do, just sit home looking tv and be happy every day i wake up? 

No, i am not like that.

 

Even if my plan about retiring there goes  wrong, at least i can be happy with my self, that i tried to help inlaws to get better life. Or worklife...

And my wife will see too i really tried to do the best i can.

[mikemi]

I think this all depends on how serious you want to be, and how much money you are going to invest.

 

More like a hobby, small money, then it doesnt matter. I know a guy in Buriram, his family make a bit of money on the side with cows. Buy 2 or 3 cows, keep them for a month or a few months, then sell them on sightly fatter, for a bit of profit. Its a small operation, and easy life.

 

If you want to make a big operation, first step I would be getting that land in my wife's name, as well as finding out what kind of title deed they have. Depending on how much money you plan to put, I would want all or part of the land in the wife's name.

 

If the land is not held in a decent title chanote/nor sor 3, or whatever, then I wouldnt get involved, unless its for a hobby.

 

You dont want to be in a situation where a problem arises in the future, and you are stuck with no way out, and with a ton of money in land in someone else's name.

 

You have 3 cows there already, why dont you start with those, fatten them up and sell them for a profit. Then buy more, get 5 cows, then next time 10. something like that. If time is on your side then start small.

 

 

 

 

[bwpage3]

7 minutes ago, Kallemann said:

They already drill for water with their shed for cow. And there is also a pond very close to shed. 15 meters. Offcourse no one can predict what will happen next  year. Not even tmrw. 

What shall i do, just sit home looking tv and be happy every day i wake up? 

No, i am not like that.

 

Even if my plan about retiring there goes  wrong, at least i can be happy with my self, that i tried to help inlaws to get better life. Or worklife...

And my wife will see too i really tried to do the best i can.

What you are doing is admirable.

 

I financially support my wife's family every single year. That is what you must be prepared to do, because her family is now YOUR family.

 

I did help get my brother in law get a better life.

 

It is machinery. A farm truck and tractor enables him to earn good money. Farming is not good money.

 

You have so many years until retirement. Until then if you love being in Thailand, you can go stay there every year for 2 months or more.

 

Or you could use that money to invest in machinery or other things that can help them get ahead.

 

Or do the research what crops, fruit, etc. might have a better chance than Bulls.

 

You are the brains that need to have a solid plan for them. Do the research, prove your plan works financially.

 

Sometimes we sit around and dream the life is greener on the other side of the world, when it fact it may not be true.

 

I don't know about life in Norway, maybe it sucks. 

 

However, I do know it is takes money once you decide to move to Thailand. 

 

And in the future it will take even more money. How much no one knows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IsaanAussie]

Just now, bwpage3 said:

Sometimes we sit around and dream the life is greener on the other side of the world, when it fact it may not be true.

This is the issue we face. Reality in my part of Isaan is 6 months without a drop of rain. That has happened for the 20yrs I have been here. More recently the annual rainfall has reduced, drainage against flood improved and the resultant ground water table gone down 10 metres. These are the things that should drive us

[kickstart]

The op has 3 cows ?, first off ,what breed are they ,if they have long ears ,get rid of them ,they are Indo Brazil X's ,and take a lot of looking after ,the almost need feeding like dairy cows, a good ration, not rice straw and cut hedge bottom cut grass , and they will never get fat ,look for some Thai Native X Brahman ,good cows ,grow well and any beef breed they are put to will also grow well .

When did they calve they last calf , or are they already in calf,  if they calved  more than 10-12 months ago, and are not in calf , chances of getting them back in calf is slim, I would sell them and buy in a few heifers ,and start again, word on the street is beef cattle prices are going up, so make your mind up soon.   

[Kallemann]

I am too busy to answer now, but where to buy cattle in thai? Mostly on auction?

I will answer more later when i not busy.

[bwpage3]

1 hour ago, IsaanAussie said:

This is the issue we face. Reality in my part of Isaan is 6 months without a drop of rain. That has happened for the 20yrs I have been here. More recently the annual rainfall has reduced, drainage against flood improved and the resultant ground water table gone down 10 metres. These are the things that should drive us

My father in law saw this coming, so we went over 12/2019 and installed a well at his house.

 

The whole neighborhood is able to get water.

 

 

[Kallemann]

2 hours ago, mikemi said:

I think this all depends on how serious you want to be, and how much money you are going to invest.

 

More like a hobby, small money, then it doesnt matter. I know a guy in Buriram, his family make a bit of money on the side with cows. Buy 2 or 3 cows, keep them for a month or a few months, then sell them on sightly fatter, for a bit of profit. Its a small operation, and easy life.

 

If you want to make a big operation, first step I would be getting that land in my wife's name, as well as finding out what kind of title deed they have. Depending on how much money you plan to put, I would want all or part of the land in the wife's name.

 

If the land is not held in a decent title chanote/nor sor 3, or whatever, then I wouldnt get involved, unless its for a hobby.

 

You dont want to be in a situation where a problem arises in the future, and you are stuck with no way out, and with a ton of money in land in someone else's name.

 

You have 3 cows there already, why dont you start with those, fatten them up and sell them for a profit. Then buy more, get 5 cows, then next time 10. something like that. If time is on your side then start small.

 

 

 

 

At first this will be like a hobby, for me, but inlaws already do this for living, so for them it will be more than hobby. i will just try to make it more easy for them to do, what they already do. and if we see it makes profit, then we can make more and more out of it. so maybe in 5 or 10 yrs, it is more than a hobby. who knows?
 

i already talk to wife about put her name on the land, and she thinks thats a good idea too. (offcourse ???? ) 

 

i am a little bit stuck now, for two reason,

stuck in norway, because covid19.

and stuck in that way i have to wait rice finnish ( November?) before i can start make grass on the field.

 

i think if i tell them to plow now, while rice growing, they will not belive anything more i tell them to do.

 

 

[Kallemann]

1 hour ago, kickstart said:

The op has 3 cows ?, first off ,what breed are they ,if they have long ears ,get rid of them ,they are Indo Brazil X's ,and take a lot of looking after ,the almost need feeding like dairy cows, a good ration, not rice straw and cut hedge bottom cut grass , and they will never get fat ,look for some Thai Native X Brahman ,good cows ,grow well and any beef breed they are put to will also grow well .

When did they calve they last calf , or are they already in calf,  if they calved  more than 10-12 months ago, and are not in calf , chances of getting them back in calf is slim, I would sell them and buy in a few heifers ,and start again, word on the street is beef cattle prices are going up, so make your mind up soon.   

i am not sure what breed they are. my guess, they are the most cheap or common to get there..

what you say about selling them and buy new heifers, sounds like an good idea. but as i said in last post, i can not plant real grass until rice is harvested.

hopefully i can put seed in november, and what i read, is most seed need about aprox 3 months before can start grazing them.

i think 1/3 of ubon stylo, and 2/3 of mulato II grass..?

 

[Kallemann]

8 hours ago, kickstart said:

The op has 3 cows ?, first off ,what breed are they ,if they have long ears ,get rid of them ,they are Indo Brazil X's ,and take a lot of looking after ,the almost need feeding like dairy cows, a good ration, not rice straw and cut hedge bottom cut grass , and they will never get fat ,look for some Thai Native X Brahman ,good cows ,grow well and any beef breed they are put to will also grow well .

When did they calve they last calf , or are they already in calf,  if they calved  more than 10-12 months ago, and are not in calf , chances of getting them back in calf is slim, I would sell them and buy in a few heifers ,and start again, word on the street is beef cattle prices are going up, so make your mind up soon.   

I can not find any information abourt Thai Native X Brahman. I look everywhere on internet... can they have a different name?

[Michael Hare]

9 hours ago, Kallemann said:

i am not sure what breed they are. my guess, they are the most cheap or common to get there..

what you say about selling them and buy new heifers, sounds like an good idea. but as i said in last post, i can not plant real grass until rice is harvested.

hopefully i can put seed in november, and what i read, is most seed need about aprox 3 months before can start grazing them.

i think 1/3 of ubon stylo, and 2/3 of mulato II grass..?

 

If you are going to plant Mulato II and Ubon stylo after rice harvest in November then you need to consider the following:

 

1 Will the rice land flood every year from July to September-October? If it does, the Mulato II and Ubon stylo will die. if this land is the only land available, then you will either have to raise the land up or find out a way to drain the land.

 

2 Planting in November will mean you have to water the fields constantly until the next wet season in May. Will you have a supply of six months water?

 

3 Planting in November means the young seedlings will be growing in the cool season. At this time, even with a constant supply of water, growth will be very slow.

 

4 Where will you buy the seed from? My company, Ubon Forage Seeds, is the only producer of these seeds in Thailand (and Asia). Either you will buy from me or through a middleman. By November, we will be sold out of Ubon Stylo seed, but there will be still Mulato II seed in stock. New season Ubon stylo will come in March next year. 

 

5 if I was you, I would plan and prepare the areas to be planted in pasture over the dry season and then sow the seeds in May next year. 

 

Lots to think about. Don't rush in. By the way, I named this stylo Ubon stylo about 25 years ago. Someone above mentioned buffalo grass. It does not grow in Thailand. 

[kickstart]

5 hours ago, Kallemann said:

I can not find any information abourt Thai Native X Brahman. I look everywhere on internet... can they have a different name?

 

Your fields being mono culture rice  for a lot of years that land will be short of everything to  do with nutrients.

After the rice harvest sow a crop of Mung Beans, get a local guy in with a 5 or 7 disc plough with a seeder  and sow them ,Mung Beans do not need a lot of water ,let them grow  60-70 days ,then plough them in ,at no more than 6-10 inches (ca. 25 cm) deep, mung beans being a legume will put some  much-needed organic matter  back in the soil,

As for finding  information about Thai Native X Brahman cattle ,not easy  they are not a recognized breed ,something Thai farmers have bred themselves over the years   ,Thai Google and Thai FB will have some.

The photo ,of the cow on her own is on a friend's  farm, they are a dairy farm with a pet beef cow, she eats the surrounding grass ,and has about 2 kg /day of concentrate ,keeps her going ,she is Thai Native X Brahman about 40/60%,had 3 calves the owner thinks she is 2-3 months in calf .

The heifer is one of ours a 50-50% Thai Native x Brahman ,2 years old calves in September ,the cow and calf ,the cow is the mother of the heifer a Thai Native ,that is last years' calf with her ,takes after Mum .small in suture mum has 5 calve now and will calve again end of next month .

So,if you are going to buy some heifers look for short ears,a lot of Thai's do not like small cattle ,big cattle are OK ,but take some feeding ,to keep them going and more importantly keep them fertile ,it is them breeding that will make you money .

And something Michael said a long time ago ,and I have heard before ,with small cattle you get a lot of beef to the acre , and they are easier to rear.