extention refused (Non-O Thai Spouse + Working permit holder)

[AHTOHuO]

Dear friends,
I'm a holder of the Non-O "Thai Spouse" (Marriage visa) for last 6 years.

From year to year I renewed my marriage visa on the basis of my working permit, official salary of 45,000 THB, monthly income tax declaration form (Form No. 1) and annual income tax declaration form (Por.Ngor.Dor.91) for the latest year.  This year, due to COVID lock-down my employer suspended operation of the company from the end of the March until June 2020. So I can show paid taxes for January, February, March and even for the June.
Immigration officer said that they will not accept documents because 3 months in a year are missed and taxes are not paid for this period. But at the same time they asked to print out a letter from Ministry of Finances which explain taxes regulation during the lock down period. 
An immigration officer refers to the fact that main Immigration in Bangkok probably will not accept my documents, but the officer really want to help us for a reward.

Has anyone encountered a similar situation? I will be grateful for any useful information.

Thank you
 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

Yours is not a normal situation to be in. You would think they could make an exception.

You could apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife and then apply for the one year extension after you have a couple of more months of income. But if you have gotten one since your last entry using a non-o visa you would not be able to apply for it.

[AHTOHuO]

21 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yours is not a normal situation to be in. You would think they could make an exception.

You could apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife and then apply for the one year extension after you have a couple of more months of income. But if you have gotten one since your last entry using a non-o visa you would not be able to apply for it.

Thank you, ubonjoe.
Unfortunately, I will loose my Working Permit if I will apply for 60 days visa to visit my wife.  

Edited June 24, 2020 by AHTOHuO

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, AHTOHuO said:

Thank you, ubonjoe.
Unfortunately, I will loose my Working Permit if I will apply for 60 days visa to visit my wife.  

Nor correct.

Your work permit will remain valid since you would be extending the same entry you have been extending for one year. People have even applied for work permits with a 60 day extension of stay to visit their wife.

[Puchaiyank]

"but the officer really want to help us for a reward."

 

Surprise!  Enough posts on TVF have confirmed that immigration opportunits have a ready made clientele...police must work to get clients...immigration just waits for the hapless foreigner who needs their cooperation...

 

 

[AHTOHuO]

Same officer last year asked for a reward when found mistake in the salary guarantee letter where my accounting made a mistake and wrote down my salary 35,000 THB  instead of 45,000 THB I showed my bank book where can clearly see how much my employer pays. Officer said "I will not accept your documents even if you will bring me a correct paper with salary 45,000 THB".

 

[RayHaas]

18 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Yours is not a normal situation to be in. You would think they could make an exception.

You could apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife and then apply for the one year extension after you have a couple of more months of income. But if you have gotten one since your last entry using a non-o visa you would not be able to apply for it.

I have a similar situation with Non-O / WP. However I just paid all through the months even if there was zero business. The offices were open as usual.

[JackThompson]

Yes.  If you were continuously employed, businesses can legally defer tax payments due to Covid.  Immigration don't "approve" of the Tax-Dept providing that assistance to business during this crisis, so are forcing their employees out of the country (except agent-applications with a fat-envelope).

 

I had the 3 mo of taxes when I applied, and an official bank-letter showing my income, which is multiples of the minimum.  Supposedly, you just need 40K income and be living with your wife - right?  Wrong! 

 

It's hard to provide "pics at the office"  when the office is closed.  Social distancing per govt-order by working-remote not "approved" by Immigration, evidently.

 

Add in DBD docs only from the DBD office, already provided to get my work-permit.  The work-permit is asumed fake? - was it issued for a non-existent business, or something?  

 

They Do Not Care if your "really meet the requirements," or about the fate of your family.  They want that Agent/Lawyer Money - with which you don't need any of this.  Rates start at 35K Baht - most passed to immigration - from what I can find.  If they are asking for money directly, maybe you can get a cheaper deal.

 

See this thread for a good list of what they want now:

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1157718-visa-extension-options-one-year-for-busines-or-60-days-or-one-year-for-marriage/?do=findComment&comment=15537410

Edited June 25, 2020 by JackThompson

[NightSky]

You are played with because you are a temporary Non o 'tourist' like most of us.

 

After 20 years in Thailand, married with kids and business you can be turned away if one month you earn less than 45k baht.

 

After 30 years with grandchildren you can be kicked out unless you keep on earning the same.

 

After 40 years at 70+ years old and most of life giving in Thailand, unless you have saved a lot of income over the years or you are still earning and not sick, you could be turned away for not meeting the income level at an old age with no where else to go because you thought you had built a life in Thailand.

 

It doesn't matter how much you give, how long you live here, you are still a temporary tourist unless you are one of the lucky few each year who can pass a residency test. Its not a home for a family unless you are a very wealthy family. (And a middle class western salary isn't enough to be sure - you need to be Wealthy). We should always plan that way when living under a regime like the one governing this present day.

 

Sorry you are having problems, hope it turns out good for you.

Edited June 25, 2020 by NightSky

[Max69xl]

On 6/24/2020 at 8:18 PM, AHTOHuO said:

Same officer last year asked for a reward when found mistake in the salary guarantee letter where my accounting made a mistake and wrote down my salary 35,000 THB  instead of 45,000 THB I showed my bank book where can clearly see how much my employer pays. Officer said "I will not accept your documents even if you will bring me a correct paper with salary 45,000 THB".

 

You do know that you can always ask to speak to a supervisor? 

[rosst]

14 hours ago, NightSky said:

You are played with because you are a temporary Non o 'tourist' like most of us.

 

After 20 years in Thailand, married with kids and business you can be turned away if one month you earn less than 45k baht.

 

After 30 years with grandchildren you can be kicked out unless you keep on earning the same.

 

After 40 years at 70+ years old and most of life giving in Thailand, unless you have saved a lot of income over the years or you are still earning and not sick, you could be turned away for not meeting the income level at an old age with no where else to go because you thought you had built a life in Thailand.

 

It doesn't matter how much you give, how long you live here, you are still a temporary tourist unless you are one of the lucky few each year who can pass a residency test. Its not a home for a family unless you are a very wealthy family. (And a middle class western salary isn't enough to be sure - you need to be Wealthy). We should always plan that way when living under a regime like the one governing this present day.

 

Sorry you are having problems, hope it turns out good for you.

Oh yes, it goes on and on. 

There is no relief in sight. 

[Kalasin Jo]

On 6/24/2020 at 8:05 PM, Puchaiyank said:

"but the officer really want to help us for a reward."

 

Surprise!  Enough posts on TVF have confirmed that immigration opportunits have a ready made clientele...police must work to get clients...immigration just waits for the hapless foreigner who needs their cooperation...

 

 

No hint from my IO on 2 visits to clarify requirements there for 1yrar marriage extension non O backed, or it was so subtle I missed it, simple being that I am. So no extension unless I can comply with all they ask for ( more than some IOs) at the moment. Should I just go again and ask boldly: is there a waiver of conditions procedure at an extra fee?

 

For my first long stay application I remember an agent, a legal firm it was, in Bangkok saying if I wished, for what I now know to be a shedload of money,   the whole process could be " expedited' and it was. 1 day, a trip to Chang Wattana with agents rep, and a lady in a very small room who stamped everything up, to go from visa exempt to 90 day non O, and first extension of stay. The real VIP route I suspect. I think they thought I was loaded. Gave me 15 worry free months here before I had to renew. Again at Jomtien, no visit to IO, the condo manager whose Mum worked in the IO she said, organised all, significantly smaller fee but I was paying alot for the condo! So I thought this was all totally normal for my first 2+ years in Thailand! All smiles and palm greasing! After that did it myself and always have done since. Much cheaper, but a real grind, I take offence if they won't give you the 100 baht change (my wife hisses and grabs my arm as I'm about to ask for it so I always let it ride) and the IOs still joke, laugh and smile...they have the power and you are the supplicant.... so not quite politely if you know what I mean.... as another hoop is proffered for the mouse to jump through.

 

Then I discovered Savanakhet. Oh dear, what do now as I can't get there?

 

Sadly our right to be here, save for the very wealthy few, must be sought every year as that's what is deemed a long stay, whether for work, for family or for retirement and the money, not so much but exchange rates have taken a heavy toll, just so in every respect whether you've lived here 4 years or 40 years, even if you have a Thai spouse of many years and a vast brood of children and grandchildren here and you call here home and have no other.

 

[rickudon]

I put up with the grief of annually changing visa policies for 4 years, and thought that would end when i changed to Marriage extensions/annual embassy letters ....

Then they scrapped the Embassy letter. Also fluctuating exchange rates and irregular cash flows were always a potential issue. The new monthly income options had no leniency for one small error ......

So i swapped to parking 400,000 baht in a Thai bank time deposit. Less issues now. But never plan on thinking you will never have immigration problems. All you can do is live day by day, like most Thais do. TIT.

[from the home of CC]

18 minutes ago, rickudon said:

I put up with the grief of annually changing visa policies for 4 years, and thought that would end when i changed to Marriage extensions/annual embassy letters ....

Then they scrapped the Embassy letter. Also fluctuating exchange rates and irregular cash flows were always a potential issue. The new monthly income options had no leniency for one small error ......

So i swapped to parking 400,000 baht in a Thai bank time deposit. Less issues now. But never plan on thinking you will never have immigration problems. All you can do is live day by day, like most Thais do. TIT.

If I was working here the first thing I would acquire would be the 400K in the bank but that's just me..   

[Puchaiyank]

"I take offence if they won't give you the 100 baht change (my wife hisses and grabs my arm as I'm about to ask for it so I always let it ride) and the IOs still joke, laugh and smile."

 

Asked for and received back my 100 baht when I went to pickup my passport...the lady IO then went down to the 90 day reporting desk...whisper something...and then the gentleman IO called me over to his desk...took my passport and ripped out the verification of residence...tore up the stamped form and threw it in the trash...

 

Told me he now required an additional doc from the landlord who lives in Europe..."for your own protection "  um hum!

 

Paid an agent 1100 baht...800 baht went to IO...to restore my doc...

 

That was final straw for me...

[AHTOHuO]

On 6/26/2020 at 5:04 PM, rickudon said:

I put up with the grief of annually changing visa policies for 4 years, and thought that would end when i changed to Marriage extensions/annual embassy letters ....

Then they scrapped the Embassy letter. Also fluctuating exchange rates and irregular cash flows were always a potential issue. The new monthly income options had no leniency for one small error ......

So i swapped to parking 400,000 baht in a Thai bank time deposit. Less issues now. But never plan on thinking you will never have immigration problems. All you can do is live day by day, like most Thais do. TIT.

Should I keep 400,000 THB for the 2 month before applying visa?
Will immigration believe that suddenly 400k was deposited just before visa extensions and they will not require to have not less than 70% of this amount within last year?

Will immigration accept deposited funds instead of paid taxes because I'm an employee and WP holder?

There are still questions when they can catch and extort money.

[ubonjoe]

39 minutes ago, AHTOHuO said:

Should I keep 400,000 THB for the 2 month before applying visa?
Will immigration believe that suddenly 400k was deposited just before visa extensions and they will not require to have not less than 70% of this amount within last year?

Having the 400k baht in the bank is the easiest way to apply for the extension based upon marriage if working here.

They don't care when you put the money in the bank as long it has been there for 2 months. 

 

39 minutes ago, AHTOHuO said:

Will immigration accept deposited funds instead of paid taxes because I'm an employee and WP holder?

Immigration does not even need to know you are working if you have 400k baht in the bank. No need to show them your work permit and etc.

[AHTOHuO]

Thank you, ubonjoe.

Gentlemen, the last questions. After my visit to the immigration office (IO), where my attempt to extend the visa was failed, on the way to home I got a phone call.
It was immigration officer, who wished to talk with my wife.  During the conversation, the officer dramatized my whole situation with the extension of my visa and said that this is a Special Case and that it will be better to pay for it.  Officer asked us to return to IO next day to talk about the amount.
My phone automatically records all conversations (Redmi Note).  So I have a recording of this conversation.

Can NCCC will help with this? Does anyone have experience with them?
I have no desire to pay to immigration every year.

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by AHTOHuO

[Maestro]

In some countries, recording phone conversations secretly, without the consent of the other party, is illegal. How is it in Thailand?