Man arrested over toppling of statue English slave trader

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, PJPom said:

The Manchester Guardian was founded by the blunt talking, very rich Northern Mill Owners and Industrialists as an answer to the “ foppish” Southerners newspapers , It reported on the state of the nation and the world in an exemplary manner for years. Now it is based in the South and has become the woke persons bible, in other words it has become the very thing it’s founders would have abhorred.

The guardian was founded 200 years ago. I very much doubt that the founders would have been able to comprehend how the world was going to change in that time, so to suggest that they would be shocked by what it has become today is as laughable as it is meaningless. Of course, if consistency of message in your newspapers is important to you, best you stick to the Mail - they have never wavered from their explicit support of fascists and the far right. 

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The guardian was founded 200 years ago. I very much doubt that the founders would have been able to comprehend how the world was going to change in that time, so to suggest that they would be shocked by what it has become today is as laughable as it is meaningless. Of course, if consistency of message in your newspapers is important to you, best you stick to the Mail - they have never wavered from their explicit support of fascists and the far right. 

Colston lived nearly 400 years ago, I doubt at the time that he thought he was doing wrong, but it doesn't stop people talking about him today now does it. The left seem quite happy to live in the past but when something doesn't quite fit in with their agenda..........time to move the goal posts.

It is true when someone said that the Tories might be in office, but they are not in power, the left have moved into every conceivable office in the country, they represent the minority of the country but fear not Boris has a huge majority and has started to drain the swamp, we need police that police, we need judges that are impartial and not give one man 2 weeks in the clink for having a pee, yet a vandal that destroys public property is let off scot free. We need universities to educate our young and not pump ideologies into their sponge like brains.

I thought that the Daily Mail was the paper of the left these days, god knows they quote it enough when it suits them.

[Kadilo]

17 minutes ago, vogie said:

Colston lived nearly 400 years ago, I doubt at the time that he thought he was doing wrong, but it doesn't stop people talking about him today now does it. The left seem quite happy to live in the past but when something doesn't quite fit in with their agenda..........time to move the goal posts.

It is true when someone said that the Tories might be in office, but they are not in power, the left have moved into every conceivable office in the country, they represent the minority of the country but fear not Boris has a huge majority and has started to drain the swamp, we need police that police, we need judges that are impartial and not give one man 2 weeks in the clink for having a pee, yet a vandal that destroys public property is let off scot free. We need universities to educate our young and not pump ideologies into their sponge like brains.

I thought that the Daily Mail was the paper of the left these days, god knows they quote it enough when it suits them.

We we we need........no you mean you need. Speak for yourself. 

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Kadilo

[RuamRudy]

19 minutes ago, vogie said:

Colston lived nearly 400 years ago, I doubt at the time that he thought he was doing wrong, but it doesn't stop people talking about him today now does it. The left seem quite happy to live in the past but when something doesn't quite fit in with their agenda..........time to move the goal posts.

It is true when someone said that the Tories might be in office, but they are not in power, the left have moved into every conceivable office in the country, they represent the minority of the country but fear not Boris has a huge majority and has started to drain the swamp, we need police that police, we need judges that are impartial and not give one man 2 weeks in the clink for having a pee, yet a vandal that destroys public property is let off scot free. We need universities to educate our young and not pump ideologies into their sponge like brains.

I thought that the Daily Mail was the paper of the left these days, god knows they quote it enough when it suits them.

The Guardian has changed with the times, as has thinking towards Colston and his ilk. It is as simple as that. Some people prefer that we remain in forelock tugging subservience whereas others recognise that successive British governments have been gaslighting the population for generations. If some people want to call it woke, that is fair enough - I would much rather be thought of as woke than a sheep that prefers to live on its knees.

 

And you cannot even avoid falling into the gaslighting trap yourself. You are mixing up parliamentary majority with popular support. As with the Brexit vote, Johnson is in power with less than half the electorate behind him. Your talk of his 'huge majority' is simply a smokescreen to hide that fact that the actual huge majority does not support him or his party and its policies. The actual majority are being led down a path they don't want to take by a collection of over-privileged, dull-witted rich boys who believe they have a god given right to lord over us plebs - and the truly sad part is that there is enough of a minority of us plebs who actively help them, cheer them on, as they screw us daily. 

[bodga]

4 hours ago, bluesofa said:

Better to get in early:

 

I'm  deeply  offended  by  your cubism

[vogie]

37 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The Guardian has changed with the times, as has thinking towards Colston and his ilk. It is as simple as that. Some people prefer that we remain in forelock tugging subservience whereas others recognise that successive British governments have been gaslighting the population for generations. If some people want to call it woke, that is fair enough - I would much rather be thought of as woke than a sheep that prefers to live on its knees.

 

And you cannot even avoid falling into the gaslighting trap yourself. You are mixing up parliamentary majority with popular support. As with the Brexit vote, Johnson is in power with less than half the electorate behind him. Your talk of his 'huge majority' is simply a smokescreen to hide that fact that the actual huge majority does not support him or his party and its policies. The actual majority are being led down a path they don't want to take by a collection of over-privileged, dull-witted rich boys who believe they have a god given right to lord over us plebs - and the truly sad part is that there is enough of a minority of us plebs who actively help them, cheer them on, as they screw us daily. 

The Guardian is not fit for purpose, it only panders to the likes of the far left who will gladly believe every word that is printed in it, all the media should be held responsible for the lies they spew out.

Whatever we think of "Colston and his ilk" that doesn't give anyone the right to vandalise and remove anything that they find offensive. There are ways and means to sort out these things, we still live in a democracy, only just, and creating anarchy on our streets is not acceptable, surely you cannot argue with that? You cannot, or would it be better to say.....should not vandalise anything because probably your left wing tutors at uni says its ok.

You say Boris is in power with only half the electorate behind him, well it's a lot more than the other parties could muster. The only way we can take back our streets is to get some decent leadership of our police, this needs to happen very fast before we turn into a society being told by the minority what is best for us, let us decide what happens in our country and not by some ideologic nit wits who cannot see further than their noses, good grief if we're not careful we'll turn into George Orwells '1984'

I do think you have a tendacy to over exaggerate. "Lord over us plebs" ????????????

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by vogie

[CorpusChristie]

19 hours ago, Fancyzancy said:

Here ya go Brits who always laugh at USA.

It's going to get real nasty. Let's say Karma. 

I dont think so, the BLM movement has published some extreme statements recently and thus have lost lots of general support , middle ground people who once supported the cause , based on the George Floyd incident , have gotten off their knee and are now distancing themselves from the group .

   They've exposed themselves as being a far left , Marxist, Antifa revolutionary group with some anti Semitism thrown in for good measure . 

  The UK Gov have stated that anymore attacks on the Police and the perpetrators will feel the full force of the law , the lawless rioters are being rounded up and prosecuted .

   The tide has turned 

[RuamRudy]

22 minutes ago, vogie said:

The Guardian is not fit for purpose, it only panders to the likes of the far left who will gladly believe every word that is printed in it, all the media should be held responsible for the lies they spew out.

That is a subjective opinion. If you feel angered towards the Guardian, can I assume that you are incandescent with rage at the Mail and the Express?

 

23 minutes ago, vogie said:

Whatever we think of "Colston and his ilk" that doesn't give anyone the right to vandalise and remove anything that they find offensive. There are ways and means to sort out these things, we still live in a democracy, only just, and creating anarchy on our streets is not acceptable, surely you cannot argue with that? You cannot, or would it be better to say.....should not vandalise anything because probably your left wing tutors at uni says its ok.

Agreed - but nowhere have I suggested that vandalism or destruction was the answer. 

 

24 minutes ago, vogie said:

You say Boris is in power with only half the electorate behind him,

No, absolutely not what I said - it is gaslighting and a lie. The Tories are in power with much less than half the country behind them. 

 

25 minutes ago, vogie said:

The only way we can take back our streets is to get some decent leadership of our police, this needs to happen very fast before we turn into a society being told by the minority what is best for us,

Is this an attempt at weekend humour? The minority has led us to farce that is Brexit; the minority has imposed upon us the most incompetent government and the most incapable prime minister that most can think of. 

27 minutes ago, vogie said:

good grief if we're not careful we'll turn into George Orwells '1984'

Now I am convinced that you are just chuckling to yourself and seeing if you can rile me. Cambridge Analytica? Ring any bells? 

[transam]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

The guardian was founded 200 years ago. I very much doubt that the founders would have been able to comprehend how the world was going to change in that time, so to suggest that they would be shocked by what it has become today is as laughable as it is meaningless. Of course, if consistency of message in your newspapers is important to you, best you stick to the Mail - they have never wavered from their explicit support of fascists and the far right. 

Hey chap, have you not worked out yet that a newspaper name is just that, columns are written by a bloke, yes a bloke, and the stuff you like is written by a lefty bloke.

 

A couple of rags are manned by lefty blokes, and you/we expect to read the same ol' lefty stuff by the lefty blokes... ????

[vogie]

22 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

That is a subjective opinion. If you feel angered towards the Guardian, can I assume that you are incandescent with rage at the Mail and the Express?

 

Agreed - but nowhere have I suggested that vandalism or destruction was the answer. 

 

No, absolutely not what I said - it is gaslighting and a lie. The Tories are in power with much less than half the country behind them. 

 

Is this an attempt at weekend humour? The minority has led us to farce that is Brexit; the minority has imposed upon us the most incompetent government and the most incapable prime minister that most can think of. 

Now I am convinced that you are just chuckling to yourself and seeing if you can rile me. Cambridge Analytica? Ring any bells? 

But there again this topic has nothing what-so-ever to do with Boris, it is about fairness, I will try and keep it simple, one man urinates and gets 2 weeks in jail another man causes wanton destruction and vandalism and gets a caution with an invite to discuss they remaining statues and whatever else he might want to destroy, are you telling me that is impartial and indeed fair.

Do you agree if we don't like something that gives us the right to remove it without any consultation from anyone else, at the very least that is an arrogant attitude with a trace of 'it's all about me'

Finally do you agree that democracy is a better way to run our society than anarchy? Easy questions.

[vogie]

The crime in Bristol is escalating, it started with the toppling of a statue, now the police are investigating a crime where 5 posters with "it's ok to be white" on them have been discovered in an underpass, who could possibly do such a thing.

[Sujo]

On 7/3/2020 at 1:24 PM, CorpusChristie said:

The photo in question is evidence that they were at a crime scene and thus quite probably involved in  numerous crimes that had been committed that day , how about *obstructing the Police* ?

  Could be a case to answer that if they were not there , then the Police would have arrested the people committing crimes 

   Judge/Jury, whatever, not that important , as what I meant was them being found guilty of crimes in Court

I really wish you would stop. 

 

Obstructing police how.

What other probable crimes, arrest them because you think they may have done something.

 

Look, a man has a penis so probably he raped someone because other men have.

 

Police cannot arrest someone unless a crime has been committed. Taking pics is not a crime. Cheering is not a crime.

 

Start arresting people where you have no evidence then you better have deep pockets.

 

Sounds to me that you just dont like them so want them arrested.

 

[Sujo]

On 7/3/2020 at 1:33 PM, RuamRudy said:

I would suggest that 'quite probably' fails to meet the burden of proof required to bring about criminal charges and a trial. As for 'obstructing the police' you would have to show that either they had prior knowledge of the intention to topple the statue and that their presence was a deliberate attempt to thwart the police, or that they interfered directly with the police's attempts to apprehend the vandals. And as I mentioned previously, TV journalists were there in the middle too - should they also be charged?

 

As you were lamenting about having to 'explain the basics' to me, I thought that maybe you would be keen for some reciprocal knowledge sharing. 

I admire your patience.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Sujo said:

I really wish you would stop. 

 

Obstructing police how.

What other probable crimes, arrest them because you think they may have done something.

 

Look, a man has a penis so probably he raped someone because other men have.

 

Police cannot arrest someone unless a crime has been committed. Taking pics is not a crime. Cheering is not a crime.

 

Start arresting people where you have no evidence then you better have deep pockets.

 

Sounds to me that you just dont like them so want them arrested.

 

Well I do, aiding and abetting..........????

[CorpusChristie]

15 minutes ago, Sujo said:

 

 

Police cannot arrest someone unless a crime has been committed. Taking pics is not a crime. Cheering is not a crime.

 

 

 

Numerous serious crimes were committed that day and due to them being present at the crime scene and some/all would definitely have been involved in crimes committed that day .

  Bring them all in for questioning and find who who committed what crime and then charge them

[Kadilo]

32 minutes ago, Sujo said:

I really wish you would stop. 

 

Obstructing police how.

What other probable crimes, arrest them because you think they may have done something.

 

Look, a man has a penis so probably he raped someone because other men have.

 

Police cannot arrest someone unless a crime has been committed. Taking pics is not a crime. Cheering is not a crime.

 

Start arresting people where you have no evidence then you better have deep pockets.

 

Sounds to me that you just dont like them so want them arrested.

 

Don’t feed him. The more you bite the more he will keep coming back with his nonsense. 

[CorpusChristie]

28 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Obstructing police how.

If say just five people were involved in  pulling that statue down and dragging it to the river , the Police would have arrested them in the process .

   The only reason why the Police didnt arrest them is because of the Mob rule at the time .

Had the photograph  taking mob not been there , the Police would have arrested the vandals 

The photo taking mob obstructed the police in carry out their duty

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, CorpusChristie said:

If say just five people were involved in  pulling that statue down and dragging it to the river , the Police would have arrested them in the process .

   The only reason why the Police didnt arrest them is because of the Mob rule at the time .

Had the photograph  taking mob not been there , the Police would have arrested the vandals 

The photo taking mob obstructed the police in carry out their duty

The Rhubarb brigade seem oblivious to the fact that it's standard practice for plod to collate as much real time evidence as possible from multiple sources inc their own covert operators and to arrest the perpetrators at a time and place of their choosing in the days and weeks that follow.

Edited July 4, 2020 by evadgib

[RuamRudy]

6 hours ago, vogie said:

But there again this topic has nothing what-so-ever to do with Boris, it is about fairness, I will try and keep it simple, one man urinates and gets 2 weeks in jail another man causes wanton destruction and vandalism and gets a caution with an invite to discuss they remaining statues and whatever else he might want to destroy, are you telling me that is impartial and indeed fair.

I think that it is very dangerous to start to question the impartiality of the judiciary. I know nothing of the cases you mention, but I am confident that the English justice system is filled with mostly honest and impartial executors. 

 

6 hours ago, vogie said:

Do you agree if we don't like something that gives us the right to remove it without any consultation from anyone else, at the very least that is an arrogant attitude with a trace of 'it's all about me'

I do not agree with vandalism of any sort. But I believe in open and constructive dialogue. 

 

6 hours ago, vogie said:

Finally do you agree that democracy is a better way to run our society than anarchy? Easy questions.

Yes, I think democracy sounds like a nice idea. I hope we can move in that direction. 

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

The crime in Bristol is escalating, it started with the toppling of a statue, now the police are investigating a crime where 5 posters with "it's ok to be white" on them have been discovered in an underpass, who could possibly do such a thing.

A complete waste of time, I agree. They would be far better employed investigating why the government awarded a contract without tender for PPE worth £108 million to a chocolatier and a company that makes pigeon nets. 

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, Kadilo said:

Don’t feed him. The more you bite the more he will keep coming back with his nonsense. 

I am bored at work - this is the closest I get to entertainment...

[Orton Rd]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I am bored at work - this is the closest I get to entertainment...

Security gaurd?

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Security gaurd?

Security guard's assistant - currently studying for the big leap upwards. 

[bodga]

12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Security guard's assistant - currently studying for the big leap upwards. 

You'll  need  to sleep  more to upgrade.

[JensenZ]

On 7/2/2020 at 6:17 PM, from the home of CC said:

all the toppled statues in the world is not going to remove the deeply buried hate of racists..

The way these protestors, aka clowns, are behaving, any racist feelings will be amplified.

[Kadilo]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

I am bored at work - this is the closest I get to entertainment...

Fair enough, I’m sure Linford  will keep going as long as you do. 

[vogie]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

A complete waste of time, I agree. They would be far better employed investigating why the government awarded a contract without tender for PPE worth £108 million to a chocolatier and a company that makes pigeon nets. 

Nothing at all to do with this topic, but when stuck have a pop at Boris Johnsons government, pathetic.

[vogie]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

I am bored at work - this is the closest I get to entertainment...

Best listen to your mentor RR, he lost the right to a reply from me when he lost the debate and called me a racist. But I guess attacking other posters is the best we'll ever get from some posters on here.

[vogie]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I think that it is very dangerous to start to question the impartiality of the judiciary. I know nothing of the cases you mention, but I am confident that the English justice system is filled with mostly honest and impartial executors. 

 

I do not agree with vandalism of any sort. But I believe in open and constructive dialogue.  

 

Yes, I think democracy sounds like a nice idea. I hope we can move in that direction. 

I think that it is very dangerous to start to question the impartiality of the judiciary. I know nothing of the cases you mention, but I am confident that the English justice system is filled with mostly honest and impartial executors.  

And I think that when a man has a pee and gets a two week custodial sentence and another commits vandalism and removes public property gets basically let off, the judiciary system is in need of serious overall, there is no rhyme nor reason, let the punishment fit the crime and yes, it does need questioning.

 

I do not agree with vandalism of any sort. But I believe in open and constructive dialogue.  

Well we both agree on this then, so do you agree that this movement is going the wrong way and they need prosecuting if they commit vandalism or should this apply to only people that are desperate for a leak.

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I am bored at work - this is the closest I get to entertainment...

Can I just add that I am happy that I am keeping you entertained.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Best listen to your mentor RR, he lost the right to a reply from me when he lost the debate and called me a racist. But I guess attacking other posters is the best we'll ever get from some posters on here.

I don't believe I have attacked anyone here, and certainly have never been 'robust' with those who don't dish it out in the first instance, but I am sure that you will take the path you feel is most appropriate.