RUSSIAN VACCINE WILL GET THERE FIRST

[Bkk Brian]

12 hours ago, kingdong said:

what happened to the uks wonder vaccine they were shouting from the rooftops a fortnight ago? seems every 3 weeks a cure or vaccine is found then you never hear any more.

Still on track, phase 3 trials the final hurdle are currently taking place in Brazil, India and of course the UK. In tandem with this they are also considering human challenge trials.

 

This potential vaccine is still the front runner.

 

Russia's one may work but with no scientific study published yet its just speculation.

[Sharp]

12 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

i would not count on them making it available to foreigners/foreign countries, at least not until everyone in Russia has had access which will likely take a year at least, maybe more. There is a reason why so many countries are wanting to develop their own vaccine.

 

There is also some safety concerns...the Russians appear ready to approve a vaccine based on only very small scale clinical trials.

 

Every country is struggling with how to juggle the urgent and time sensitive need on the one hand with normal safety precautions on the other. There is no clear answer to that but the Russians appear willing to take more risk than other countries are. Maybe it will pay off...or maybe it will come back to bite them badly.

Hi Sheryl why is it so 'urgent' to have a vaccine now the mortality numbers are nowhere near the predicted and most deaths had pre existing issues anyhow or older generations thats without the asymptomatic numbers that must be walking around seems more and more like MSM and BIg Pharma are fueling a fear narrative ..IMHO.   

[Dumbastheycome]

13 minutes ago, Sharp said:

Hi Sheryl why is it so 'urgent' to have a vaccine now the mortality numbers are nowhere near the predicted and most deaths had pre existing issues anyhow or older generations thats without the asymptomatic numbers that must be walking around seems more and more like MSM and BIg Pharma are fueling a fear narrative ..IMHO.   

I have no idea what Sheryl's response would  be  but regardless of opinion about C-19 the existence of proven effective  vaccines would enable the world to begin to function with some greater flexibility and a withdrawal from declared need for national isolation.

[Sharp]

17 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

I have no idea what Sheryl's response would  be  but regardless of opinion about C-19 the existence of proven effective  vaccines would enable the world to begin to function with some greater flexibility and a withdrawal from declared need for national isolation.

I agree with your view that 'greater flexibility ,isolation etc would be lifted so I suppose my point is it's probably not needed only being pushed, promoted ,just seems like scare tactics to me with recovery rates so high im really having a hard time believing thats there's not more to this than just a flu like virus ...Guess time will tell when it all comes out how they got it so wrong or right..I know what my ???? is on.

[Rancid]

I dislike all vaccines, but I would rather have a Russian one than one from the thieving sociopaths at Big Pharma. Ever wonder why its illegal to sue them for vaccine side effects? The Russians at least still steer their best and brightest into scientific fields.

[Why Me]

From CNN July 30:

Officials told CNN on Wednesday that they were working toward a date of August 10 or earlier for approval of the vaccine, which has been created by the Moscow-based Gamaleya Institute. It will be approved for public use, with frontline healthcare workers getting it first, they said.

 

Ignoring the grudging tone the Western press tends to have when reporting Russian achievements it looks like they are very close. And the safety concerns are overblown. The first to be given the vaccine will be Russian frontline medical personnel and then their most at-risk citizens. Which means they have it all to lose, not to mention the international PR disaster, if they don't get it right.

[geriatrickid]

Although the Russians have a vaccine capacity, much of the intellectual assets were obtained from  shared data bases or were STOLEN.

The Russians have been hacking and stealing data from western countries for years. Hopefully, one of the targeted labs gave them defective data such that the Russians are taught a lesson.

 

Russian cyber actors are targeting organizations involved in coronavirus vaccine development, according to a new warning by US, UK and Canadian security officials on Thursday that details activity by a Russian hacking group called APT29, which also goes by the name "the Dukes" or "Cozy Bear." An advisory published by the UK National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC) details activity by the Russian hacking group and explicitly calls out efforts to target US, UK and Canadian vaccine research and development organizations.  "APT29's campaign of malicious activity is ongoing, predominantly against government, diplomatic, think tank, healthcare and energy targets to steal valuable intellectual property," a press release on the advisory said.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/us/politics/vaccine-hacking-russia.html

 

The Russians, have been sabotaging other countries for years so that they can gain an advantage. Anyone thanking or praising their activity is showing  their true colours.

 

[geriatrickid]

14 hours ago, Sharp said:

Hi Sheryl why is it so 'urgent' to have a vaccine now the mortality numbers are nowhere near the predicted and most deaths had pre existing issues anyhow or older generations thats without the asymptomatic numbers that must be walking around seems more and more like MSM and BIg Pharma are fueling a fear narrative ..IMHO.   

It is not about mortality and  has never been about mortality although we now see a  creeping growth of mortality with those aged 60-65 seeing a 1% mortality rate and 45-55 increased to 0.3%. This is higher than expected. 

 

The issue has been the cost of the infection itself. When 20% of patients must seek  hospital care, it is expensive. When 10%-30% of hospitalized patients must  be cared for in an ICU it  is expensive.  When  economic activity must be curtailed because the infection is so contagious it knocks out operating units, it becomes catastrophic.  Covid19 is  dangerous because of its ability to lay waste to the working public for many weeks at a time. When people become ill they require  care, and  that means that resources  must be directed  to the ill. Consider what happens when a family  becomes ill. The parents must stop work to take care of family members.  Those who are  infected, can be  ill and fatigued for weeks if not months.  

 

Why mention Mains stream media or "big pharma"? They are not controlling the vaccine nor its pricing. Why promote nonsensical claims of a conspiracy when it has been stated  from day 1 that the Oxford vaccine would be distributed as non profit?  India, one of the largest manufacturers of  vaccines has already stated that it would do it as a non profit. Canada, France, Germany, UK  have all pledged to contribute at as low a cost as possible if not as general aid to the poorer countries. Even the US   manufacturers have agreed to  at cost arrangements. zThere is no fear narrative being "fueled" except by those who have politicized this crisis.

 

Ask Herman Cain  if he believes that  wearing a mask  and social distancing was unnecessary. Oh wait, never mind...............

 

 

[Scott]

A post to a link in a foreign language has been removed along with replies.   Foreign language posts are not allowed except for Thai in the Thai language forum.  

 

[geriatrickid]

5 hours ago, Rancid said:

I dislike all vaccines, but I would rather have a Russian one than one from the thieving sociopaths at Big Pharma. Ever wonder why its illegal to sue them for vaccine side effects? The Russians at least still steer their best and brightest into scientific fields.

Unfounded nonsense. Do you  want us to believe that anyone has recourse against the Russian government in the event of an adverse  drug reaction?   You want to promote Russian theft of intellectual assets. Good for you, but don't lie.  The   management of vaccine adverse reaction claims in the west is generous.  In many western jurisdictions it is a guaranteed no fault approach where  patients are guaranteed compensation. The US has  already provided $4 billion to claimants with a minimum burden of proof. You are  promoting another lie and falsehood.

 

Where were you the false claims in respect to autism and vaccines resulted in large awards for claimants? Those people who won based upon  false claims were not required to give back their ill gotten awards after it was shown that the basis of the claim was fraudulent.

 

[Credo]

I suspect that Russia is approving it without large scale trials, which is always a gamble.  The same thing happened with a polio vaccine and it resulted in the death of 25 and paralysis in 200 children out of 200,000 who were inoculated.  This is one of the reasons for the long-term and careful approach with vaccines.   Different types of vaccine are designed to work slightly different.

 

I hope that Russia actually studies the long term efficacy and any issues with the vaccine.   

Those who are interested in the Polio vaccine that caused problems, here's a link:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/

[Why Me]

3 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Although the Russians have a vaccine capacity, much of the intellectual assets were obtained from  shared data bases or were STOLEN.

The Russians have been hacking and stealing data from western countries for years. Hopefully, one of the targeted labs gave them defective data such that the Russians are taught a lesson.

Don't spout bs without evidence. No matter their lousy political system Russians are highly competent in science and tech. But the western media, not western scientists though who have enormous respect for their Russian counterparts, like to demonize them as the enemy.

 

Heck, if the Russian space program for example was stolen goods it would have been stuck on earth for 10 years like the American, who were paying the Russians 100 mil per ride to the space station till SpaceX came along.

 

Don't believe everything you read about Russians in the western press. A lot of it is made up or cherry picked to align with the "evil commies" agenda.  

 

 

[Why Me]

3 hours ago, Credo said:

I suspect that Russia is approving it with out large scale trials, which is always a gamble.  The same thing happened with a polio vaccine and it resulted in the death 25 and paralysis in 200 children out of 200,000 who were inoculated.  This is one of the reasons for the long-term and careful approach with vaccines.   Different types of vaccine are designed to work slightly different.

 

I hope that Russia actually studies the long term efficacy and any issues with the vaccine.   

Those who are interested in the Polio vaccine that caused problems, here's a link:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/

The Cutter incident you link was 65 years ago. Vaccines were new then and many modern regulations weren't in place. There has been no major problem with vaccines since then. Here is the CDC history of vaccine incidents. Vaccines today are as safe as any prescription drug.

 

If the Russians are cutting corners then a. it could blow up in their faces as the first to get their vaccine will be their own citizens b. they'll not get approval from other national FDAs who are going to scrutinize the Russian data very carefully before allowing it to be administered within their own jurisdiction c. not to mention the huge PR disaster from failure as the whole world will be watching as the first C-19 vaccine debuts.

 

Kind of same because of the PR angle will be the Boeing 737 Max when it flies again. It'll be the safest plane in the air you can bet.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Why Me

[simon43]

I've said time and time again Russia's contributions to culture, science and technology are among the best the world has to offer and here they prove me right yet again. It is so hard to be right all the time.

 

I have to agree with the OP.  Many of my online science students are Russian.  They amaze me with their scientific knowledge for such a young (10) age.  They are very serious about learning science and technology topics, (unlike my Chinese students...).

 

As a radio amateur, I have great respect for Russian 'hams', many who in my teen years, were building their radio transmitters out of whatever electronics they could find and scrounge.

 

Russia cosmonauts and satellites were the first in space, running rings around the USA ????

 

 

[sezze]

23 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Although the Russians have a vaccine capacity, much of the intellectual assets were obtained from  shared data bases or were STOLEN.

The Russians have been hacking and stealing data from western countries for years. Hopefully, one of the targeted labs gave them defective data such that the Russians are taught a lesson.

 

Russian cyber actors are targeting organizations involved in coronavirus vaccine development, according to a new warning by US, UK and Canadian security officials on Thursday that details activity by a Russian hacking group called APT29, which also goes by the name "the Dukes" or "Cozy Bear." An advisory published by the UK National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC) details activity by the Russian hacking group and explicitly calls out efforts to target US, UK and Canadian vaccine research and development organizations.  "APT29's campaign of malicious activity is ongoing, predominantly against government, diplomatic, think tank, healthcare and energy targets to steal valuable intellectual property," a press release on the advisory said.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/us/politics/vaccine-hacking-russia.html

 

The Russians, have been sabotaging other countries for years so that they can gain an advantage. Anyone thanking or praising their activity is showing  their true colours.

 

IMHO , all bigger countries in the world have extensive spy systems in place . The left hand blaming the right hand , and saying the others are bad is been happening long long time . There is plenty of proof of copying / stolen data for 100s of years , in all directions around the world .

What matters is , who does create a safe working vaccine , so all can so to normal again .

[shdmn]

It's one thing to say you are first.  It's quite another to have a properly tested vaccine ready for general use. That takes time.  Time to see if it's still effective after a few months.  Time to see if there are serious side effects that don't show up right away.  There is no way around it.  So Poots can make his announcements and pat himself on the back all he wants.  

Edited August 1, 2020 by shdmn

[Oliver Holzerfilled]

On 7/31/2020 at 6:21 AM, Why Me said:

From CNN July 30:

Officials told CNN on Wednesday that they were working toward a date of August 10 or earlier for approval of the vaccine, which has been created by the Moscow-based Gamaleya Institute. It will be approved for public use, with frontline healthcare workers getting it first, they said.

 

Ignoring the grudging tone the Western press tends to have when reporting Russian achievements it looks like they are very close. And the safety concerns are overblown. The first to be given the vaccine will be Russian frontline medical personnel and then their most at-risk citizens. Which means they have it all to lose, not to mention the international PR disaster, if they don't get it right.

The first to be given the vaccine will be Russian frontline medical personnel and then their most at-risk citizens political prisoners which means they have it all nothing to lose not to mention the international PR disaster, if they don't get it right.

[Why Me]

24 minutes ago, Oliver Holzerfilled said:

The first to be given the vaccine will be Russian frontline medical personnel and then their most at-risk citizens political prisoners which means they have it all nothing to lose not to mention the international PR disaster, if they don't get it right.

Channeling the Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male? Nah, the Russians have better ethics.

[JohnnyNJoy]

I sure hope a vaccine is close to being made. I don't care who produces it, as long as it works. 

[cormanr7]

Maybe some of you should read the following (nobody knows how accurate it is) article on the Gamaleya vaccin: https://time.com/5868980/coronavirus-vaccine-russian-elite/ (dated 20-07-2020). It does contain some interesting claims, for instance that a large scale (-phase 3) -trial will start on August 3rd (yes, today!). This will take place in Russia, UAE and Saudi Arabia. The vaccine might then be distributed within Russia as early as September (or October as mentioned in official news report from a few days ago). It is of course impossible to test effectiveness and safety over this short time span. There is some vague inference that the vaccin is 'safe' because it is 'based on proven vaccines for other diseases'.

All rather scary, seems to  be mainly driven by national prestige.

 

[Sharp]

6 hours ago, cormanr7 said:

Maybe some of you should read the following (nobody knows how accurate it is) article on the Gamaleya vaccin: https://time.com/5868980/coronavirus-vaccine-russian-elite/ (dated 20-07-2020). It does contain some interesting claims, for instance that a large scale (-phase 3) -trial will start on August 3rd (yes, today!). This will take place in Russia, UAE and Saudi Arabia. The vaccine might then be distributed within Russia as early as September (or October as mentioned in official news report from a few days ago). It is of course impossible to test effectiveness and safety over this short time span. There is some vague inference that the vaccin is 'safe' because it is 'based on proven vaccines for other diseases'.

All rather scary, seems to  be mainly driven by national prestige.

 

It's a good job 80% of us don't need it!!!!! 

[Matzzon]

Sure! I also heard that Putin is going to run Boston Marathon, and Trump is having tea together with Xi in London.

[Credo]

On 7/31/2020 at 12:05 PM, Why Me said:

The Cutter incident you link was 65 years ago. Vaccines were new then and many modern regulations weren't in place. There has been no major problem with vaccines since then. Here is the CDC history of vaccine incidents. Vaccines today are as safe as any prescription drug.

 

If the Russians are cutting corners then a. it could blow up in their faces as the first to get their vaccine will be their own citizens b. they'll not get approval from other national FDAs who are going to scrutinize the Russian data very carefully before allowing it to be administered within their own jurisdiction c. not to mention the huge PR disaster from failure as the whole world will be watching as the first C-19 vaccine debuts.

 

Kind of same because of the PR angle will be the Boeing 737 Max when it flies again. It'll be the safest plane in the air you can bet.

I was responding to the poster about the safety issue.   I am 100% in favor of vaccination for all the major diseases.   I think it's important to remember that bad stuff can happen and that not all vaccines work the same way, that's all.   The problems that can happen with vaccines are reasonably well known to scientist, so they generally know what to look for.  

I have no doubt that Russia will NOT go through the proper protocols.   Maybe they will get lucky and it will prove to be safe.   Maybe not.   

 

[sezze]

9 minutes ago, Credo said:

I was responding to the poster about the safety issue.   I am 100% in favor of vaccination for all the major diseases.   I think it's important to remember that bad stuff can happen and that not all vaccines work the same way, that's all.   The problems that can happen with vaccines are reasonably well known to scientist, so they generally know what to look for.  

I have no doubt that Russia will NOT go through the proper protocols.   Maybe they will get lucky and it will prove to be safe.   Maybe not.   

 

True , but then again .... if they start in September or October distributing , you will certainly not 1 of the 1st people getting it anyway . Lets say 4-5 months later , many high risk cases have been vaccinated so you get a real life safety test . Do not forget , all makers are rushing for results , so any vaccine coming out would be in risk of it . 

I am all for vaccination , but i rather wait a few months to let others get the highest chance of abnormalities . I know its not fair for those who get it 1st , and i 100% agree on it , but the ways they are rushing everywhere , getting 10 years of work done in 6-9 months , is incredible and leaves room for errors . The few months more waiting for it won't hurt me .

[Why Me]

2 hours ago, Credo said:

I have no doubt that Russia will NOT go through the proper protocols. 

Juvenile antagonism. Russians are pretty competent. Give them a chance, kid.