Majority of Scots support independence from UK - YouGov poll

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

I wouldn't trust the SNP to run a bath never mind their country, I just wonder if they realise that they will not be able to blame Westminster if they ever get separation. Incidentally Westminster is the SNP codeword for The English.????

No. It is not. And it never will be despite you claiming it in every thread.

It would mean I and most other Scots would have to blame family members and friends. 

When we say Westminster we mean Westminster or the UK government. That is all.

[Rookiescot]

17 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Correct.

 

Brexit is just an lame excuse to get a second bite of the cherry since their countrymen voted to Remain in the UK when they were asked in 2014. They simply can't accept the result of the Democratic vote. If it wasn't Brexit, they be citing the pandemic or some other 'material change' that warranted another vote.

 

They simply cannot accept that they are a very vocal minority trying to overturn the democratic mandate provided by the silent majority. 

Where is that silent majority in the polls?

Accept it. As a consequence of Brexit the majority of Scots now want independence.

[dunroaming]

27 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Correct.

 

Brexit is just an lame excuse to get a second bite of the cherry since their countrymen voted to Remain in the UK when they were asked in 2014. They simply can't accept the result of the Democratic vote. If it wasn't Brexit, they be citing the pandemic or some other 'material change' that warranted another vote.

 

They simply cannot accept that they are a very vocal minority trying to overturn the democratic mandate provided by the silent majority. 

Why is Brexit a lame excuse?  It is a very legitimate reason to want to separate themselves from the controlling powers of the dimwit Johnson. 

 

But this is for the people of Scotland and actually none of your (or my) business.  It is their country and therefore should be their decision. 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I disagree, the nats wanted separation from the English before the EU referendum and after the referendum they still wanted separation, infact they have wanted separation before you and myself were born, so it can be said without fear of contradiction that Brexit had Sweet Fanny Adams to do with separation.

How is that any less worthy than the people on here who tell us they wanted out of the EU since the 70s? You may not agree with their aspirations, but they are no less people of conviction. 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I wouldn't trust the SNP to run a bath never mind their country, I just wonder if they realise that they will not be able to blame Westminster if they ever get separation. 

Why, if they are so incompetent, are they on the cusp of an historic election victory in the next Holyrood election? Could it be that you are hindered by your irrational hatred of the idea of Scottish independence and your complete lack of understanding of Scottish politics and Scottish life?

 

 

[vogie]

16 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Why, if they are so incompetent, are they on the cusp of an historic election victory in the next Holyrood election? Could it be that you are hindered by your irrational hatred of the idea of Scottish independence and your complete lack of understanding of Scottish politics and Scottish life?

 

 

Nope.

[vogie]

20 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

How is that any less worthy than the people on here who tell us they wanted out of the EU since the 70s? You may not agree with their aspirations, but they are no less people of conviction. 

What has that got to do with my post, I stated you wanted out before and after the referendum and was a reply to a poster that stated that Scots Indy and Brexit are intertwined, so irrespective of Brexit you would have wanted out, am I right or am I correct?

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

What has that got to do with my post, I stated you wanted out before and after the referendum and was a reply to a poster that stated that Scots Indy and Brexit are intertwined, so irrespective of Brexit you would have wanted out, am I right or am I correct?

Have you ever tasted stovies? One of the finest dishes known to man, but the fact is that no two housewives follow the same recipe - there are as many variants as there are cooks in Scotland. Independence is a bit like that - ask 1000 supporters why, and you will get 1000 different answers. 

[RuamRudy]

The SNP have been in government in Scotland since 2007 and are about to be returned with a large majority under a parliamentary system specifically designed to prevent any party gaining a majority. Knocks any suggestion of SNP incompetence into a cocked hat, I am afraid. 

 

Poll shows SNP on course for huge Holyrood win as backing for independence also increases

 

"THE SNP is on course for a crushing victory at the next Holyrood election, according to a new poll. 

The snapshot found the Nationalists on 57% in first-past-the-post constituencies, which would help the SNP secure a sizeable majority. "

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Have you ever tasted stovies? One of the finest dishes known to man, but the fact is that no two housewives follow the same recipe - there are as many variants as there are cooks in Scotland. Independence is a bit like that - ask 1000 supporters why, and you will get 1000 different answers. 

I generally don't eat foreign food.????????

[tebee]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I disagree, the nats wanted separation from the English before the EU referendum and after the referendum they still wanted separation, infact they have wanted separation before you and myself were born, so it can be said without fear of contradiction that Brexit had Sweet Fanny Adams to do with separation.

Not so, Scotland is rightfully upset that in the independence referendum they were told if the voted for independence they  would lose their EU membership.

 

Now, after they voted to stay in the EU again they find themselves . being dragged out unwillingly by the UK.

 

And any argument about the UK losing it's sovereignty by being part of the EU is equally valid for Scotland being part of the UK.

Government by unelected bureaucrats in London is not what they want!

 

   

 

  

[Rookiescot]

19 minutes ago, vogie said:

What has that got to do with my post, I stated you wanted out before and after the referendum and was a reply to a poster that stated that Scots Indy and Brexit are intertwined, so irrespective of Brexit you would have wanted out, am I right or am I correct?

So why does support for independence keep growing and support for the union keep falling if its nothing to do with Brexit?

What other reason do you suspect may be behind it?

[vogie]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

Not so, Scotland is rightfully upset that in the independence referendum they were told if the voted for independence they  would lose their EU membership.

 

Now, after they voted to stay in the EU again they find themselves . being dragged out unwillingly by the UK.

 

And any argument about the UK losing it's sovereignty by being part of the EU is equally valid for Scotland being part of the UK.

Government by unelected bureaucrats in London is not what they want!

 

   

 

  

Now, after they voted to stay in the EU again they find themselves . being dragged out unwillingly by the UK.

 

tebee, Scotland are part of the UK, it was a United Kingdom vote. Stop trying to move the goal posts now, not everybody in Scotland voted to remain, that's how democracy works.

[dunroaming]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

I generally don't eat foreign food.????????

What not even a bit of Thai food?  Be interesting to know what food you do eat then ????

[vogie]

Just now, dunroaming said:

What not even a bit of Thai food?  Be interesting to know what food you do eat then ????

I eat everything DR, I was trying to be jocular.

[tebee]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Now, after they voted to stay in the EU again they find themselves . being dragged out unwillingly by the UK.

 

tebee, Scotland are part of the UK, it was a United Kingdom vote. Stop trying to move the goal posts now, not everybody in Scotland voted to remain, that's how democracy works.

But there you are exactly stating the problem - because it was applied on a UK basis, Scotland was denied it's democratic choice - hence the wish to be independent! 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

But there you are exactly stating the problem - because it was applied on a UK basis, Scotland was denied it's democratic choice - hence the wish to be independent! 

They don't want to be independant, the 2014 referendum proves this and unless there has been another referendum twixt 2014 and now, that is the only proof we have.

 

 

[Susco]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

They don't want to be independant, the 2014 referendum proves this and unless there has been another referendum twixt 2014 and now, that is the only proof we have.

 

 

In 2014 UK was in the EU, and brexit didn't exist yet.

 

In 2016, 62% of the Scots voted to remain in the EU.

[7by7]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

They don't want to be independant, the 2014 referendum proves this and unless there has been another referendum twixt 2014 and now, that is the only proof we have.

 

 

The UK voted to remain in the EEC in 1975.

 

One of the reasons given by anti EU campaigners ever since the EEC became the EU in the 1980s for holding a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU is that the EU now is different to the EEC we joined.

 

Same here; the UK now is different to the UK Scots voted to remain part of in 2014.

 

In 2014 the prospect of a referendum on EU membership was remote.

 

In 2016 62% of Scottish voters voted to remain in the EU.

 

The situation has changed.

 

I am a unionist, but I am also a democrat. I believe this dramatic change means Scotland should be given the choice of whether to remain part of the UK outside the EU, or leave the UK and seek whatever future it's population desire. Including, if that is their wish, joining the EU.

[hugh mckee]

I'm Scottish, lived here all my 55 years, I never hear anyone talking about independence, this is the press as usual but also brexit nonsense is now being thrown in to the mix, basically remainers from England hoping Scotland leave to spite the Brexiteers, it's quite pathetic.

 

as i said no one talks about independence, there's no debate going on, for instance what currency scotland would use, how they are going to get back into the EU when Spain have their big Catalonia problem and how Scotland can take on their share of the UK debt without it's economy collapsing?

 

in 2014 one week before the referendum Yes took the lead and then the supermarkets came out and said that shopping in Scotland would be more expensive if they were independent, that was enough to send the polls the opposite way.

 

Scotland would be more like Greece of 2 years ago if the became independent, we Scots don't want that and I am one of the silent majority who will vote to stay

just as before but the sex pest Alex Salmond said last time this was a "once in a generation vote" so BJ stick to your guns don't allow another vote, the SNP is full of

in-fighting and are about to implode, just give them another couple of years, some are already gunning for Sturgeon.

 

and by the way Scotland has one of the worst covid death rates in the world, thousands died because they empoted the hospitals of old folks they could send back to a home without testing any of them, it caused a massacre of our old folks!..............have no clue why they can say Sturgeon and her government have handled this well as the numbers of dead show they havent.

[7by7]

36 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

<snip>

I'm Scottish, lived here all my 55 years, I never hear anyone talking about independence, this is the press as usual.....

I am English, lived in England for all but 1 year of my 64 years.

 

Prior to 2016, never heard anyone talking about leaving the EU.

 

So, using your argument, we shouldn't have had a referendum in 2016!

[RuamRudy]

27 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

I'm Scottish, lived here all my 55 years,

Dear lord, that is like a cataclysmic explosion of Daily Express headlines all fighting for prominence. It is a bit challenging to peel them apart, but try I will.

 

30 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

I'm Scottish, lived here all my 55 years, I never hear anyone talking about independence

And this is indicative of what other than your perception of your surroundings?

 

30 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

this is the press as usual but also brexit nonsense is now being thrown in to the mix, basically remainers from England hoping Scotland leave to spite the Brexiteers, it's quite pathetic.

I must admit, I am confused here. Are you suggesting that 54% of the population of Scotland is made up of English remainers? 

 

33 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

as i said no one talks about independence, there's no debate going on,

Quite clearly that is not the case - really, maybe it is you?

 

34 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

what currency scotland would use,

My preference - start with the UK pound, transition to a Scottish pound then, depending upon whether we decide to join the EU, maybe the Euro. But I am no economist so I am happy to defer to the experts. 

 

35 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

how they are going to get back into the EU when Spain have their big Catalonia problem

This has been debunked so many times - I am not sure how much assurance you need to start to see how this is a non issue. 

 

36 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

how Scotland can take on their share of the UK debt without it's economy collapsing?

They will service any accepted debt as will rUK. As rUK is incapable of paying off its debt, it will not require to be paid off by Scotland either. Servicing of the debt will be sufficient. 

 

37 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

in 2014 one week before the referendum Yes took the lead and then the supermarkets came out and said that shopping in Scotland would be more expensive if they were independent, that was enough to send the polls the opposite way.

Big corporations have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo? Hardly a shocker. Thankfully, the stupidity of Brexit has woken many up to just how much our prices are going to rise once we are out of the EU. They want back in.

 

39 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

Scotland would be more like Greece of 2 years ago if the became independent, we Scots don't want that 

I appreciate that this is some internet meme, but can you explain, technically, why that would be? I would dearly love to see some sort of credible explanation. And if you could also explain how you know that 'Scots don't want that' when you are adamant that there is no ongoing discussion about independence, that would be just dandy.

 

41 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

I am one of the silent majority who will vote to stay

Again, how do you know if there is no debate at all? That said, every poll this year has independence in the lead so are you sure about that majority?

 

42 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

just as before but the sex pest Alex Salmond said last time this was a "once in a generation vote" so BJ stick to your guns don't allow another vote, 

That is a libelous statement which has been proven in a court of law to be false. Shame on you for smearing a man's reputation for political gain.

 

43 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

the SNP is full of

in-fighting and are about to implode, just give them another couple of years, some are already gunning for Sturgeon.

You miss the point of independence. It is not about getting the SNP into power in an independent Scotland. It is about independence itself. The vehicle to take us there becomes less important when we arrive.

 

44 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

and by the way Scotland has one of the worst covid death rates in the world, thousands died because they empoted the hospitals of old folks they could send back to a home without testing any of them, it caused a massacre of our old folks!..............have no clue why they can say Sturgeon and her government have handled this well as the numbers of dead show they havent.

They say it because it is true, I am afraid. Admittedly stymied by the intransigence and incompetence of Johnson and his corrupt cabinet at the outset, the Scottish Government has shown true leadership and capability throughout, while Johnson's approach has led to thousands of needless deaths. 

[puipuitom]

On 8/13/2020 at 1:51 PM, Rookiescot said:

You can if you want but given its nowhere near the Scottish border it might be a waste of time.

Just give the population of Northumberland a vote too. Maybe they join Scotland and Not England ( Anglia, Mercia, Kent and the Saxions)

[sungod]

6 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Maybe I should post on every topic I find on TV "I'm not interested/bored/whatever with this topic", or "Stop bleating about this topic". You know,  just to make my mark!!

Yes please go ahead, it would be a vast improvement on the regular <deleted> you post.

 

Good suggestion!

[puipuitom]

20 hours ago, nausea said:

Nationalism may be getting in the way of rational thinking. The Scots are always gonna have a bigger say being part of the UK, than being part of some conglomerate called the EU. Up to them. England will probably be wealthier, if less influential, without them. 

The Scots have now nothing to say, as all is done by Londoners. When EU member state nr 28, they will be heard.

[Nigel Garvie]

12 minutes ago, sungod said:

Yes please go ahead, it would be a vast improvement on the regular <deleted> you post.

 

Good suggestion!

Yawn,

teachers report............must try harder!

[sungod]

1 minute ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Yawn,

teachers report............must try harder!

Slight improvement, you are heading in the right direction......still boring as <deleted> though.

[puipuitom]

9 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Please read this slowly. If Scotland leaves the UK and joins the EU, do you think there will be no need for any form of customs border between Scotland and Wales/Northern Ireland? You think the EU will just let goods flow freely between Wales (which is part of the UK) and Scotland (which would be part of the EU)?  

 

I'm sure Barnier would love that!

Same regulation as between Northern Ireland and the rest op the UK: a customs border in between ( despite Boris the Liar likes to call it different).

2) What Barnier loves... I hope his wife is interested, but what counts is the mandate he got from the EU Council = heads of Government of the 27 remaining EU member states. An agreement has to pass them and after.. the 27 national parliaments of each EU member state... Just one, who wants to kill the UK car export into the EU, or the financial services of the City into the EU and we have a No Deal Brexit ( in 24 weeks )

Edited August 14, 2020 by puipuitom

[puipuitom]

9 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Clearly you didn't understand the physical geography or you wouldn't have written something as utterly nonsensical as:

But now I am intrigued. Where will this Wales/Scotland border checkpoints be physically located? 

At the same place as between Wales and the EU: after transport via sea or overland via England..... So difficult ? Will change, when S+N Ireland, Scotland and Wales form the "Gealic confederation" ( like Belgium is now: 4 entities) 

[Rookiescot]

9 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

I'm Scottish, lived here all my 55 years, I never hear anyone talking about independence, this is the press as usual but also brexit nonsense is now being thrown in to the mix, basically remainers from England hoping Scotland leave to spite the Brexiteers, it's quite pathetic.

 

as i said no one talks about independence, there's no debate going on, for instance what currency scotland would use, how they are going to get back into the EU when Spain have their big Catalonia problem and how Scotland can take on their share of the UK debt without it's economy collapsing?

 

in 2014 one week before the referendum Yes took the lead and then the supermarkets came out and said that shopping in Scotland would be more expensive if they were independent, that was enough to send the polls the opposite way.

 

Scotland would be more like Greece of 2 years ago if the became independent, we Scots don't want that and I am one of the silent majority who will vote to stay

just as before but the sex pest Alex Salmond said last time this was a "once in a generation vote" so BJ stick to your guns don't allow another vote, the SNP is full of

in-fighting and are about to implode, just give them another couple of years, some are already gunning for Sturgeon.

 

and by the way Scotland has one of the worst covid death rates in the world, thousands died because they empoted the hospitals of old folks they could send back to a home without testing any of them, it caused a massacre of our old folks!..............have no clue why they can say Sturgeon and her government have handled this well as the numbers of dead show they havent.

Wow thats unionist bingo and your cards full lol.

 

Remainers in England hoping to spite the Brexiteers? What about the majority in Scotland now in favour of independence? Might they have something to do with it?

 

No one in Scotland is talking about independence? Do you live in a cave or something? Ruth Davidson never stopped talking about independence. Nor did Mundell. Or Scotland in Union. Or the Scotsman. Or the Herald. Or the Record. Or the BBC. Basically Unionists never shut up about independence.

 

Currency. Ah the old chestnut which was answered so many times back in 2014 but unionists still cant hear the answer. Initially we will retain the pound. After that we will adopt our own currency or the Euro as the situation dictates. Every other country which left the Empire managed to do the same. Scotland will be no different. Might I suggest if we do adopt our own currency we call it the Johnson. 100 Boris's to a Johnson. After all we should celebrate and remember the one single man who has done more for Scottish independence than anyone else. 

Spains veto? Have you been in cryogenic suspension since 2014. Spain has said it has no issues with Scotland joining the EU. None. 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-spain-politics-scotland/spain-would-not-oppose-future-independent-scotland-rejoining-eu-minister-idUKKCN1NP25P

 

Debt? Scotland has no debt. We might take on some of the UK's debt after we leave but only if whats left of the UK plays nice. We went into the union with no debt and none of that debt is in Scotlands name.

 

You think people paid attention to the supermarkets? No what swung the vote to NO was the infamous vow delivered and organised by Brown during the period of purdah. A vow which was never delivered as there was never any intention to deliver it.

 

Greece eh? Always loved that analogy. So Scotland is such a basket case it cant stand on its own two feet. This is a situation which has come to pass while we are in the union. How is that a positive for staying in the union? The union has us so broken we are the same as Greece? Makes absolutely no sense. And if we are a total wreck why is Westminster so desperate to keep us? A conservative government which would sell its grandma just for the mineral rights to her kidney stones? Please.

 

Sex pest Alex Salmond? Who was found to be innocent  not once but twice in courts of law. I hope Salmond reads this and takes you to court for such an accusation. Always the smear with die hard unionists never the evidence. 

Show me anything which was signed by the Scottish and Westminster governments which stated the referendum was once in a generation. Oh you mean throw away lines in an interview should now be cast iron? OK Johnson said he would rather be "Dead in a ditch" rather than ask for an extension. Which ditch should we all be looking in for Johnsons corpse?

 

In fighting in the SNP? Dream on mate. 

 

Corona virus? Dear oh dear. You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel now. Scotlands performance versus Englands performance over corona is a non starter. I certainly would not want to make political points regarding such a thing. However I will point out that Nicolas Sturgeons approval rating in Scotland is +50. Johnsons is -54. Who do you think the Scottish people think handled the crisis better?

Which party is polling 57% of voting intention at the next Hollyrood election.

Which side is polling a majority with regards to independence. 

The union is over. Get used to it.

 

Keep shouting about how you are a silent majority though. I love that stuff.