October flight cancelled, what next?

[dbrenn]

4 hours ago, FlyingThai said:

I don't get their approach about this. 18,800 Australians are currently abroad and want to go back. Australia can currently handle 4000 a week (IF there are flights) per quota. The issue would regulate itself in 4-5 weeks.

 

And then there is the question: Why now? The pandemic has been going on for 6 months and now these remaining 19k people all of a sudden want to go home?

 

I'd also think twice about going back to Australia where the government is one of the most extreme when it comes to Covid measures and is planning to lock their citizens in for the foreseeable future. That would be my very last choice.

4000 flights per week needs to be spread around all of the locations in the world, which makes it uneconomical for the airlines to operate flights. This is why they always cancel scheduled passenger flights, and is why repat flights organised by embassies using cargo routes and taking only a few passengers, are the only ones operating. 

[Wongkitlo]

Australian embassy say they are not going to issue letters for extensions. The Australian repatriation flights are organized by Thailand to repatriate This from Australia. They are taking 120 people per month with 1000 people registered. Don't expect any help from Australian Embassy or Government. 

[Bluetongue]

Whoever said there were 18800 Australians overseas is probably wrong. Prior to the pandemic at any given time there are approximately 1 million Aussies overseas. 357000 have  returned. Don't forget there are large numbers of diaspora populations in Australia that maintain dual residency, such as India, Lebanon etc. In Thailand even the Ambassador doesn't know how many are here, he said at one stage it was between 3 and 12000. The repatriation flights to Sydney that occurred every Sunday in August at 30 per flight will continue in September at 32 per flight. You cannot use existing Thai Airways credit to purchase a seat. They are over subscribed at present but may not be fully booked at the end I don't know. Return from BKK via Singapore is now possible however this looks sold out already for September and maybe October, however is flying to all the majors except Melbourne. 

 

The noise about expats in Australia has been louder the last couple of days and I expect the caps to ease if Covid continues to ease in Victoria and other outbreaks are controlled. But not before the previously announced 24 October. The issue of being allowed to leave is sure to increase in prominence the longer this goes on. The country handled the initial response seemingly quite well, but ever since May it has gone pie eyed, with individual Premiers behaving like idiots and  it has become apparent many are incompetent dickheads and the PM unwilling to chastise them. Hence the current debacle in Victoria and over quarantine arrangements. 

[Thomas J]

Happyaussie

 

You "may" be able to contest the charge on your credit card if you charged the flight.  If you did, I would at least call the credit card company and start the process for contesting the charge. 

[sead]

A quick check shows many airlines going in October on 30000 bht. Are you saying none is flying?? 

I know to Europe Swiss, finnair etc are flying so should not some fly to Sydney such as Korean Airlines, nippon etc? 

[mtls2005]

23 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Happyaussie

 

You "may" be able to contest the charge on your credit card if you charged the flight.  If you did, I would at least call the credit card company and start the process for contesting the charge. 

 

Meh.

 

I haven't seen any credit card companies processing chargebacks for TG tickets. Chargeback is different from a refund --> credit.

 

Some refunds were processed back in March. Not sure any more ever will be, unless the bankruptcy overseer grants some refund based on satang on the baht. Or maybe RIP miles? Or a voucher.

 

THAI claims it owes Bt24 billion in unused tickets

 

However, due to its entry into the rehab procedure, THAI is forced by law to stop refunding tickets, the statement said, adding that the airline has every intention to take care of passengers who have sought refunds and will inform them of their rights under the rehab process.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/business/30388684?utm_source=category&utm_medium=internal_referral

 

 

Best to consider the money gone - and if some/all shows up in the future - enjoy. And the ticket to be worthless.

 

[bogozy]

Last friday, I went to the immigration office of Phetchabun. Ask them a beneficiary one year multiple entry family Non imm. O visa. In accordance with the government annunced, financial eases. (No ask the 400.000 THB) They dont' know, the government decree. ? They ask firmly the 400.000 THB deposit, in a thai bank. So at last, they give me a simple 60 days extension until 26th of November. Weird.

[Max69xl]

22 hours ago, dbrenn said:

The caps on arrivals are very onerous. Sydney at 350 arrivals a day is just one single plane load. The airlines are calling the shots, so repatriation flights might be your best option. 

Thai Airways are doing repatriation flights to Australia in August. 

[Max69xl]

18 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Can you get Thai Airways to write you a letter? Technically they're mostly owned by Thai government (Finance Ministry)!

Thai Airways is officially not a state owned airline anymore. Due to the bankruptcy they had to sell about 3,5-4 % of the shares. 

[CNXBKKMAN]

You have a TG business class ticket. Best thing would be to get that changed to the first TG repatriation flight that becomes available. Visit the office, phone them up, get a name, be a bit of nuisance and you might get a seat. I doubt you will get on any TG codeshare because TG are "bankrupt".  I wouldn't worry about thai immigration either, if you can't get back into Australia they will extend your visa until you can. It may involve visiting every month for another 30 day stamp but shouldn't be any worse than that. 

 

If you want to splash out on a new ticket (most probably business class prices) you could try Qatar. Very few seats available and you get to fly on an empty plane.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/aug/19/australians-stranded-overseas-as-airlines-fly-with-as-few-as-four-economy-passengers

[Letseng]

On 8/21/2020 at 9:34 AM, ourmanflint said:

Thai can give you a seat on alternative Star Alliance carriers, but you have to ask

Who would that be at present? Plus TG under the circumstances it might be diffict to get another carrier to accept it.

[mtls2005]

5 hours ago, Bluetongue said:

Return from BKK via Singapore is now possible

 

Yes, Thailand was recently approved as an origination point, so one can now transit SIN, but only if both flights are SQ (or Silk Air). So BKK-SIN-XXX.

 

No clue if SQ is flying to Australia, or if such a routing is allowed? SQ is flying BKK-SIN, with at least one daily.

 

More passengers allowed to transit at Changi Airport

 

The additional traffic will come in the form of transit passengers from Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand, who will now be able to transit at Changi Airport via Singapore Airlines (SIA) Group's flights.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/more-passengers-allowed-to-transit-at-changi-airport

[FlyingThai]

9 hours ago, Bluetongue said:

You cannot use existing Thai Airways credit to purchase a seat. They are over subscribed at present but may not be fully booked at the end I don't know. Return from BKK via Singapore is now possible however this looks sold out already for September and maybe October, however is flying to all the majors except Melbourne.

You can use existing credit / tickets to be rebooked on these flights. Thai Airways has even written so on their website for the previous flights to London and Frankfurt.

[Chongalulu]

16 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Consider the money paid for the TG ticket as lost. And the ticket, worthless.

 

TG won't fly this route until who knows when, if ever. (Yes, the may operate repat flights but your current ticket is not valid for those.)

 

If you want or need to return, the embassy repat flight is the only option.

 

You will spend more than 60,000 baht staying here, unless you are unusually frugal.

 

Thai Immigration may not look kindly on one who has avoided available repat flights?

 

The Australian Embassy may not issue a supporting letter if the had seats available and you chose not to take one.

 

 

 

 

The money is not lost. Under consumer law the credit card company is jointly and severally liable. Initiate a claim under that .

[FlyingThai]

11 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Meh.

 

I haven't seen any credit card companies processing chargebacks for TG tickets. Chargeback is different from a refund --> credit.

 

 

 

Amex refunded me all my TG tickets and that decision is now final. Took 60 days for everything to clear through various stages of the chargeback process. My Amex card is issued in the U.S.

[mtls2005]

8 hours ago, nchuckle said:

The money is not lost. Under consumer law the credit card company is jointly and severally liable. Initiate a claim under that .

Under "consumer law" where exactly? Can you share any details? Especially when the service provider has entered bankruptcy protection. Eventually the OP may get some money. That may take years. At this point I would cancel the booking and take a voucher.

 

6 hours ago, FlyingThai said:

Amex refunded me all my TG tickets and that decision is now final. Took 60 days for everything to clear through various stages of the chargeback process. My Amex card is issued in the U.S.

When was this? This sounds like a charge-back, but would need more details. AFAIK, no credit card companies have received credit authorization from TG to issue refunds since April. You ticketed directly with TG, or via a third-party? Charge-backs may not stick, edpends on the CC and one's 'status' with them.

 

9 hours ago, FlyingThai said:

You can use existing credit / tickets to be rebooked on these flights. Thai Airways has even written so on their website for the previous flights to London and Frankfurt.

Interesting. Can you provide a link, I'll look too. Assuming this works for the Australian flights it would be awesome for the OP.

 

 

 

TG FB 4 Aug: REFUNDS : If you wish to cancel your ticket and process a REFUND, THAI regrets to advise that since the Company has filed for a rehabilitation plan under the Central Bankruptcy Court of Thailand, REFUNDS ARE TEMPORARILY SUSPENDED.

 

 

There is a thread on Australia in Thailand Facebook page 24,000 THB sounds better than the quoted 60,000?

 

The Australian Embassy is calling for expressions of interest in a Thai Airways flight from Bangkok to Sydney on 30 August.

If you wish to express your interest, please complete the online form using the following link: at
https://forms.gle/MuxLd1VZXe15YomS8 by 6pm on Sunday 23 August, Bangkok time.

IMPORTANT – After registrations close you will be contacted to arrange ticketing and payment.

Please wait until you hear from Thai Airways and don’t contact the Embassy or Thai Airways about booking tickets before then.

Thai Airways is not using their usual booking system, so please follow their instructions carefully. See below list of Frequently Asked Questions about the flight.

 

 

Q: Is it possible to use credits with TG

 

A: No

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by mtls2005

[mtls2005]

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Charge-backs may not stick, depends on the CC and one's 'status' with them.

 

A bit dizzy reading about charge-backs but yes, it does seem like some, not all, charge-backs for TG cancelled flights are sticking (end up being approved).

 

THAI Airways (the merchant) has accounts with bank(s) operating credit card ops. Those banks, as part of a contract with MC/Visa/AMEX et al, are "funding" the chargebacks. They will end up trying to get to the front of the bankruptcy queue, but will get stuck with write-offs. Assume some of these are Thai banks? 

 

All that said, not sure the OP is in a position to request a chargeback, although he could try, gvien that he has accepted multiple re-schedules? A refund seems like a long-shot, yes, something might come through, eventually. He is a creditor, so keep the address up to date.

 

Maybe on the next cancellation try for a charge-back, rather than re-booking? Or take a voucher? And then queue for the repatriation flight.

[steven100]

On 8/21/2020 at 6:57 PM, tomazbodner said:

Can you get Thai Airways to write you a letter? Technically they're mostly owned by Thai government (Finance Ministry)!

Thai Airways is unlikely to write any letter .... they are kaput so they certainly aren't worried about Joe Blow.

[PatOngo]

On 8/21/2020 at 7:57 PM, tomazbodner said:

Can you get Thai Airways to write you a letter? Technically they're mostly owned by Thai government (Finance Ministry)!

I think they would be struggling to afford an envelope, writing paper and a stamp right now!

[Bluetongue]

12 hours ago, FlyingThai said:

You can use existing credit / tickets to be rebooked on these flights. Thai Airways has even written so on their website for the previous flights to London and Frankfurt.

Not so on the Australian flights

[Bluetongue]

15 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Yes, Thailand was recently approved as an origination point, so one can now transit SIN, but only if both flights are SQ (or Silk Air). So BKK-SIN-XXX.

 

No clue if SQ is flying to Australia, or if such a routing is allowed? SQ is flying BKK-SIN, with at least one daily.

 

More passengers allowed to transit at Changi Airport

 

The additional traffic will come in the form of transit passengers from Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand, who will now be able to transit at Changi Airport via Singapore Airlines (SIA) Group's flights.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/more-passengers-allowed-to-transit-at-changi-airport

Not sure seeing you quoted me why you didn't quote the full sentence in which I said SIA are flying to all major Australian cities except Melbourne. Just to be clear that is Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth

[mtls2005]

2 minutes ago, Bluetongue said:

Not sure seeing you quoted me why you didn't quote the full sentence in which I said SIA are flying to all major Australian cities except Melbourne. Just to be clear that is Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth

 

Apologies for any quoting etiquette violations.

 

I did check SQ flights SIN-OZ and couldn't find any for August, September.

 

And I have no clue if repatriation flights from Thailand to Australia can go via SQ/SIN? Looking at the (official?) Australia FB for Thailand, it looks like repatriation flights are limited to direct, non-stop...maybe on TG?

 

 

[happyaussie]

On 8/22/2020 at 6:10 AM, mtls2005 said:

 

Consider the money paid for the TG ticket as lost. And the ticket, worthless.

 

TG won't fly this route until who knows when, if ever. (Yes, the may operate repat flights but your current ticket is not valid for those.)

 

If you want or need to return, the embassy repat flight is the only option.

 

You will spend more than 60,000 baht staying here, unless you are unusually frugal.

 

Thai Immigration may not look kindly on one who has avoided available repat flights?

 

The Australian Embassy may not issue a supporting letter if the had seats available and you chose not to take one.

 

 

 

 

The Australian embassy has been supportive and issued me a letter. Which I'll need updated for my latest cancellation. To be honest TG have also been supportive and the credit is valid until Dec 2021. I'd say it is the ridiculous quotas the Australian government enacted that's caused the problems.

 

On another point, my ticket was originally booked through Expedia by Amex. When I inquired to rebook through Expedia they informed me it will cost almost double due to TG charges. After which I phoned TG and they told me this was untrue and rebooked over the phone at the original price. Which I've now rebooked for 01 November. Fingers crossed sanity prevails between now and then. 

[soi3eddie]

Thanks for heads up. Although I haven't received cancellation email from THAI yet, my 1st October flight date from BKK-LHR is no longer showing available (next is November). This will be my 7th cancellation. 

I've also been booked from LHR-BKK for 1st November since booking in January so I expect a fight to get a refund for that (even though it's full flex). These advance flight cancellations from THAI are probably best indication that the country will now not re-open until 1st November 2020 at earliest (though quite likely much later). 

[soi3eddie]

Regarding charge-backs;

I run two businesses in London and both accept Visa, Mastercard and American Express. We have a cancellation policy that is clear and agreed upon at time of booking but occasionally a "customer" will initiate an unfounded charge back request. We have to work hard to dispute any charge back and I can tell you that whilst we can allow the charge back, we cannot have it refused unless we can prove we have not broken our contract or we have actually supplied service. 

In the case of refunds for cancelled flights, you are unequivocally due a full refund and the credit card company is equally as liable as the airline. Next time your flight gets cancelled ask for confirmation in writing (email) then tell them you want a full refund within 14 days. When they give you the guff about backruptcy tell them to put that in writing too. With that evidence (and all your previous cancellations) the credit card company cannot refuse the charge back. Record all calls as they can be sent to credit company as evidence of refusal of refund. Always use a CREDIT CARD for anything possible and NEVER, EVER use a debit card as you have much less protection with a debit card. 

 

[Chongalulu]

5 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Under "consumer law" where exactly? Can you share any details? Especially when the service provider has entered bankruptcy protection. Eventually the OP may get some money. That may take years. At this point I would cancel the booking and take a voucher.

 

When was this? This sounds like a charge-back, but would need more details. AFAIK, no credit card companies have received credit authorization from TG to issue refunds since April. You ticketed directly with TG, or via a third-party? Charge-backs may not stick, edpends on the CC and one's 'status' with them.

 

Interesting. Can you provide a link, I'll look too. Assuming this works for the Australian flights it would be awesome for the OP.

 

 

 

TG FB 4 Aug: REFUNDS : If you wish to cancel your ticket and process a REFUND, THAI regrets to advise that since the Company has filed for a rehabilitation plan under the Central Bankruptcy Court of Thailand, REFUNDS ARE TEMPORARILY SUSPENDED.

 

 

There is a thread on Australia in Thailand Facebook page 24,000 THB sounds better than the quoted 60,000?

 

The Australian Embassy is calling for expressions of interest in a Thai Airways flight from Bangkok to Sydney on 30 August.

If you wish to express your interest, please complete the online form using the following link: at
https://forms.gle/MuxLd1VZXe15YomS8 by 6pm on Sunday 23 August, Bangkok time.

IMPORTANT – After registrations close you will be contacted to arrange ticketing and payment.

Please wait until you hear from Thai Airways and don’t contact the Embassy or Thai Airways about booking tickets before then.

Thai Airways is not using their usual booking system, so please follow their instructions carefully. See below list of Frequently Asked Questions about the flight.

 

 

Q: Is it possible to use credits with TG

 

A: No

 

In the UK it is section 75 of the consumer credit act and if you google it is exactly the same in Australia. Google is your friend ,not your unresearched opinion.

[chainarong]

On 8/21/2020 at 3:39 PM, dbrenn said:

Lots of Australians are stranded overseas due to caps on arrivals imposed by the Australian government, so as not to overload quarantine facilities. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/national/can-we-still-call-australia-home-the-refrain-of-expats-facing-shut-borders-and-20k-flights-20200819-p55n4i.html

 

Be prepared to pay if you want to go back - airlines are demanding business class, on the pretext that they can only carry a very limited number on economy. You'll also have to pay for quarantine when you land.

4 thousand still awaiting to get back to OZ , they've also restricted the amount of in comings , I know Perth is 750 per week, thats everybody. And they wont be happy, another Covid in the o/s arrivals this morning, everyone thats been found with the virus since June in West Oz have all been from over sea's arrivals.

[mtls2005]

47 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

In the UK it is section 75 of the consumer credit act and if you google it is exactly the same in Australia. Google is your friend ,not your unresearched opinion.

 

So the OP is covered because he is Australian, his AMEX card was issued in Australia and he purchased a service (ticket) from a merchant (Expedia) somewhere? Sounds simple. Get back to me when he gets his cash back.

 

That said, the OP doesn't appear to want a refund or chargeback.

 

FWIW, I can't see TG flying this route much before Q3 or Q4 2021 at the earliest. Semi-researched opinion.

 

 

 

 

[mtls2005]

3 hours ago, happyaussie said:

To be honest TG have also been supportive and the credit is valid until Dec 2021.

 

Yes, THAI Airways is being very supportive. /Not

 

They're stringing you along.

 

Maybe they can sell you a plane?

[Wongkitlo]

4 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

So the OP is covered because he is Australian, his AMEX card was issued in Australia and he purchased a service (ticket) from a merchant (Expedia) somewhere? Sounds simple. Get back to me when he gets his cash back.

 

That said, the OP doesn't appear to want a refund or chargeback.

 

FWIW, I can't see TG flying this route much before Q3 or Q4 2021 at the earliest. Semi-researched opinion.

 

 

 

 

I tried to get a flight refund from an Australian Visa card. They said they do not contest flight purchases during Covid.