The Thai Economy Is In Crisis

[PeaceBlondie]

I've removed at least 4 personal insults, and am not finished. If your post included petty bickering, it's gone, even if it included a most profound economic point. And for the irrelevant record, Bush graduated from both Harvard and Yale. Now, back to the topic....

What is the relevance of Thai public education to the future of the Thai economy? Ask any ten farang who have taught in Thai public schools, and eight or nine of them will honestly say that based on our direct observation and involvement, the system is rotten to the core. Rote learning, improperly trained educators (who were not the best students themselves, generally), appearance over substance, herd mentalities, lack of critical thinking skills, almost universal cheating, stupid tests that don't test competence....and that's in general, not just English language education. These problems with education are throughout Thailand, an inseparable part of a culture that cannot enter the 21st century competition for global capitalism. No, Thailand is not doomed to be forever poor like some wartorn African dictatorship; neither is it destined for greatness as some kind of Asian Tiger. Lovely place to live, and to make money with rubbers, but not a nation that's likely to be competitive in high technology or higher education.

[j_cheung]

What is the relevance of Thai public education to the future of the Thai economy? Ask any ten farang who have taught in Thai public schools, and eight or nine of them will honestly say that based on our direct observation and involvement, the system is rotten to the core. Rote learning, improperly trained educators (who were not the best students themselves, generally), appearance over substance, herd mentalities, lack of critical thinking skills, almost universal cheating, stupid tests that don't test competence....and that's in general, not just English language education. These problems with education are throughout Thailand, an ineseparable part of the culture that cannot enter the 21st century competition for global capitalism. No, Thailand is not doomed to be forever poor like some wartorn African dictatorship; neither is it destined for greatness as some kind of Asian Tiger. Lovely place to live, and to make money with rubbers, but not a nation that's likely to be competitive in high technology or higher education.

The Dems placed education as one of their election platforms recently. Did they have something concrete to say on how they propose to changes most (if not all) the chronic problems facing the present "rotting" core?

[midas]

I've removed at least 4 personal insults, and am not finished. If your post included petty bickering, it's gone, even if it included a most profound economic point. And for the irrelevant record, Bush graduated from both Harvard and Yale. Now, back to the topic....

What is the relevance of Thai public education to the future of the Thai economy? Ask any ten farang who have taught in Thai public schools, and eight or nine of them will honestly say that based on our direct observation and involvement, the system is rotten to the core. Rote learning, improperly trained educators (who were not the best students themselves, generally), appearance over substance, herd mentalities, lack of critical thinking skills, almost universal cheating, stupid tests that don't test competence....and that's in general, not just English language education. These problems with education are throughout Thailand, an inseparable part of a culture that cannot enter the 21st century competition for global capitalism. No, Thailand is not doomed to be forever poor like some wartorn African dictatorship; neither is it destined for greatness as some kind of Asian Tiger. Lovely place to live, and to make money with rubbers, but not a nation that's likely to be competitive in high technology or higher education.

PeaceBlondie - Spot on !

[midas]

As for the issue at hand . as the discussion is about the Thai economy and your presistant posts of thailand needing to compete with the less developed countries. which I as a resident of thailand dont agree to your views.

you still did not answer the questions I asked about the fact that thailand should aim to compete with higer developed countries,but rather seeked to slander me personaly. or are your posts just a way to "show off" taht you can have a view. I'm not being rude, you're views about me are just insignificant..

But equally highdiver, you have failed to respond to the question as to whether

the education system in Thailand is ready yet to provide a high-caliber working population

to meet those sorts of needs ? 79,000 Thai students considered to be illiterate ???

I don't think you will find such a problem in Singapore,China etc ?

I have answered it. but you seem to have missed my point of debate as i totaly agree with you..

Thailand needs to attempt and compete with higer industires and not compete with Vietnam or cambodia for cheap labour low level production. as Parakong is continuously posting.

I think thailand has come a long way in improving high caliber education and that the progress has and is been made.

Thailand has good students and good education.. example from yesterday.. the thai studen who won the phisics price..

there are some excelant universities in thailand that can produce qulified people to compete on higer levels. however more should be done to allow more an more people to benefit from education.

In order for thailand to compete in higher markets more investment and attention is needed to prepare the future generations by providing them with education to prepare them.

my point is for thialnd to compete with higer it must invest in education and not waist time on investing measures to compete with leass developed countries.

my point is that thailand should aim higer and not lower. sugesting that thailand needs to continue competing with cambodia and vietnam is to the suggest that thailand moves back.

And so highdiver the fact that Thailand seems light-years away from having a good education system

because of some of the reasons so clearly cited by PeaceBlondie - then perhaps you would care to

abandon the " lollipops and roses " brigade and admit that there is a crisis in Thailand after all !

[LaoPo]

These problems with education are throughout Thailand, an inseparable part of a culture that cannot enter the 21st century competition for global capitalism. No, Thailand is not doomed to be forever poor like some wartorn African dictatorship; neither is it destined for greatness as some kind of Asian Tiger. Lovely place to live, and to make money with rubbers, but not a nation that's likely to be competitive in high technology or higher education.

Well spoken and unfortunately true.

It is not in the genes of the vast majority of Thai and the Upper Class wish to leave it that way.

LaoPo

[highdiver]

As for the issue at hand . as the discussion is about the Thai economy and your presistant posts of thailand needing to compete with the less developed countries. which I as a resident of thailand dont agree to your views.

you still did not answer the questions I asked about the fact that thailand should aim to compete with higer developed countries,but rather seeked to slander me personaly. or are your posts just a way to "show off" taht you can have a view. I'm not being rude, you're views about me are just insignificant..

But equally highdiver, you have failed to respond to the question as to whether

the education system in Thailand is ready yet to provide a high-caliber working population

to meet those sorts of needs ? 79,000 Thai students considered to be illiterate ???

I don't think you will find such a problem in Singapore,China etc ?

I have answered it. but you seem to have missed my point of debate as i totaly agree with you..

Thailand needs to attempt and compete with higer industires and not compete with Vietnam or cambodia for cheap labour low level production. as Parakong is continuously posting.

I think thailand has come a long way in improving high caliber education and that the progress has and is been made.

Thailand has good students and good education.. example from yesterday.. the thai studen who won the phisics price..

there are some excelant universities in thailand that can produce qulified people to compete on higer levels. however more should be done to allow more an more people to benefit from education.

In order for thailand to compete in higher markets more investment and attention is needed to prepare the future generations by providing them with education to prepare them.

my point is for thialnd to compete with higer it must invest in education and not waist time on investing measures to compete with leass developed countries.

my point is that thailand should aim higer and not lower. sugesting that thailand needs to continue competing with cambodia and vietnam is to the suggest that thailand moves back.

And so highdiver the fact that Thailand seems light-years away from having a good education system

because of some of the reasons so clearly cited by PeaceBlondie - then perhaps you would care to

abandon the " lollipops and roses " brigade and admit that there is a crisis in Thailand after all !

I never said that I agree with everything peace bondie had to say.

there are very good education facilities. in thailand and there should be more of them.

As this disucussion is about economy lets do reflect on the the subject.

thailand is moving from cheap labour to more advanced tech industries.and the only way for thailand to grow is through investment in educaton. one can argue if this education is good or not up to the standrads of some of the members on this forum but the result stays the same. thailand is moving forward.

[highdiver]

I've removed at least 4 personal insults, and am not finished. If your post included petty bickering, it's gone, even if it included a most profound economic point. And for the irrelevant record, Bush graduated from both Harvard and Yale. Now, back to the topic....

What is the relevance of Thai public education to the future of the Thai economy? Ask any ten farang who have taught in Thai public schools, and eight or nine of them will honestly say that based on our direct observation and involvement, the system is rotten to the core. Rote learning, improperly trained educators (who were not the best students themselves, generally), appearance over substance, herd mentalities, lack of critical thinking skills, almost universal cheating, stupid tests that don't test competence....and that's in general, not just English language education. These problems with education are throughout Thailand, an inseparable part of a culture that cannot enter the 21st century competition for global capitalism. No, Thailand is not doomed to be forever poor like some wartorn African dictatorship; neither is it destined for greatness as some kind of Asian Tiger. Lovely place to live, and to make money with rubbers, but not a nation that's likely to be competitive in high technology or higher education.

a friend who is now in samui lives in a western country which is known for having a very good level of education.

he said the same things about the educational system there. and that the only way to get a good education is done in private schools.

he also added some other factors that do nopt exist in thailand....there is no respect for teachers by parents and by students. high doses of violence and neglegnece.

he claims that public education in the west is deteriating every year that goes by.

he said that teachers salaries in the west shows how much importance people reflect on educaton and that is why so many good teachers seek private schools and even go to thailand for it.

he is now in thailand looking for a position as a university teacher.

I dont agree with you about thailand not being able to compete or develop. it is moving forwartd and it does relate great importnace to education. just look at how people here in thailand respect teachers on a social scale.

I do belive that this country is more then just a "nice place to live" for farrngs with a false sense of superiority that would rather have thailand remain the same as to continue serving them.

As for the future... lets meet in a few years and see who was right

[jasreeve17]

I leave the forum for a few weeks and George "copies" my big hit thread and gets 81 pages of credit...

... life is not fair.

[bingobongo]

so why form the "Confederation of Thais Opposing Foreign Retailers" if everything is going swimmingly.....could it becasue it is not?

they want the wealth associated with capitalism, but not the competition.......oh the hypocrisy......how will little somchai ever get the new BMW now?

Thai retailers demand limit to foreign superstore expansion

http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=30671

[midas]

a friend who is now in samui lives in a western country which is known for having a very good level of education.

he also added some other factors that do nopt exist in thailand....there is no respect for teachers by parents and by students. high doses of violence and neglegnece.

highdiver your argument is fundamentally flawed ! We are discussing whether

the Thai economy is in crisis and possible threat's and competition to Thailand

from within the immediate region !

What happens in the West is inconsequential to Thailand's economy.

But I would regard China, Vietnam,Singapore and possibly even India as being

robust economic competitors to Thailand -particularly regarding a highly educated workforce.

Can you imagine some of the shenanigans you hear about in Thailand's schools

happening in China, Vietnam,Singapore ?

India is now outsourcing teaching of mathematics over the Internet to students in California.

will we ever see this in LOS - ah yes ... lets meet in a few years and see who was right

[Mid]

EMERGING MARKETS REPORT

Thailand relaxes currency rules to curb baht

By Polya Lesova, MarketWatch

Last Update: 12:23 PM ET Jul 24, 2007

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Thailand relaxed regulations on foreign-currency deposits and transfers Tuesday in an effort to curb the rapid rise of the Thai currency, which has climbed to a 10-year peak against the dollar.

The new measures follow five consecutive interest-rate cuts by Thailand's central bank this year, aimed at boosting economic growth and curbing the appreciation of the baht. Last week, the bank cut its benchmark interest rate by a quarter of a percentage point, to 3.25%, bringing the cumulative decreases to 175 basis points.

worth a read IMHO

edited appoligies for the misquoted links prior

Edited July 24, 2007 by Mid

[highdiver]

a friend who is now in samui lives in a western country which is known for having a very good level of education.

he also added some other factors that do nopt exist in thailand....there is no respect for teachers by parents and by students. high doses of violence and neglegnece.

highdiver your argument is fundamentally flawed ! We are discussing whether

the Thai economy is in crisis and possible threat's and competition to Thailand

from within the immediate region !

What happens in the West is inconsequential to Thailand's economy.

But I would regard China, Vietnam,Singapore and possibly even India as being

robust economic competitors to Thailand -particularly regarding a highly educated workforce.

Can you imagine some of the shenanigans you hear about in Thailand's schools

happening in China, Vietnam,Singapore ?

India is now outsourcing teaching of mathematics over the Internet to students in California.

will we ever see this in LOS - ah yes ... lets meet in a few years and see who was right

so you are repeating what i said 2 days ago. that thailand needs to compete with higer economies.

i was contridicting prakong about thailand competing and with vietnam and cambodia or other less developed countries.

[midas]

so you are repeating what i said 2 days ago. that thailand needs to compete with higer economies.

i was contridicting prakong about thailand competing and with vietnam and cambodia or other less developed countries.

Maybe Thailand does need to compete with more neighbouring economies but

the problem is it doesnt seem to have the human resources to do so

[keda]

...And so highdiver the fact that Thailand seems light-years away from having a good education system because of some of the reasons so clearly cited by PeaceBlondie - then perhaps you would care to abandon the " lollipops and roses " brigade and admit that there is a crisis in Thailand after all !

Sure there's a crisis, but by whose standards and expectations? Yours, mine?

The Thais see it different and far from a crisis, that their system could do with some improvement, which perception could be equally applied to anyplace in the west.

Much like saying Thais should adapt to western standards of safety or hygiene, or why not go the whole hog and ask them politely to come out of the 3rd world...simply ain't gonna happen, not you asking and not them complying.

[wintermute]

...And so highdiver the fact that Thailand seems light-years away from having a good education system because of some of the reasons so clearly cited by PeaceBlondie - then perhaps you would care to abandon the " lollipops and roses " brigade and admit that there is a crisis in Thailand after all !

Sure there's a crisis, but by whose standards and expectations? Yours, mine?

The Thais see it different and far from a crisis, that their system could do with some improvement, which perception could be equally applied to anyplace in the west.

Much like saying Thais should adapt to western standards of safety or hygiene, or why not go the whole hog and ask them politely to come out of the 3rd world...simply ain't gonna happen, not you asking and not them complying.

Aw how cute.. a cultural relativist!

The fact of the matter is noone outside of Thailand cares why Thailand is behind either. Matter of fact there are dozens of major hedge fund investors, businessmen, and cross border competitors who would love to see Thailand lag behind. If Thais don't see a problem then they are just setting themselves up for exploitation because they will eventually lack a competitive advantage in anything.

IMO, the writing is already on the wall when it comes to Thailand's future. Vietnam is the closest in similarity to Thailand when it comes to resources and quality of labor. The difference is the Vietnamese have a culture more similar to the Chinese work ethic and they are avoiding some of the same educational pitfalls. I'm not even going to get into the massive labor pool of India and China just nearby or the high tech technical industries dominated by the already established asian tiger economies. This means Thailand won't be able to compete with low skill labor intensive business or high skill/high tech business in the region. Thailand is a small small fish in an ever expanding big pond with big fish and sharks.

Edited July 25, 2007 by wintermute

[Heng]

It is not in the genes of the vast majority of Thai and the Upper Class wish to leave it that way.

LaoPo

Just because it's not being handed to the masses on a platter doesn't mean it's not available to them. Most of the well to do (in the general population, not the old school elites; like in a lot of places in the world) were living hand to mouth themselves just X-X generations ago.

[midas]

Just because it's not being handed to the masses on a platter doesn't mean it's not available to them. Most of the well to do (in the general population, not the old school elites; like in a lot of places in the world) were living hand to mouth themselves just X-X generations ago.

If the " system " is not geared up to providing a decent standard of education

to the masses to prepare for an extremely competitive Southeast Asia how can the average

Thai climb the ladder ? Many members of the " well to do" as you refer to them were educated

abroad. Take the daughter of our former leader for example

[Heng]

Just because it's not being handed to the masses on a platter doesn't mean it's not available to them. Most of the well to do (in the general population, not the old school elites; like in a lot of places in the world) were living hand to mouth themselves just X-X generations ago.

If the " system " is not geared up to providing a decent standard of education

to the masses to prepare for an extremely competitive Southeast Asia how can the average

Thai climb the ladder ? Many members of the " well to do" as you refer to them were educated

abroad. Take the daughter of our former leader for example

Actually the progression was more often generation 1 was uneducated and worked hard and saved so that generation 2 could move to wherever the best education was (and that was often relative... moving over to just the next town, into the city, or into Bangkok). The numbers that were educated abroad were and still are relatively few if you're talking about those who own most of the country. If you take the roughly 20% here who control 80% of the country's wealth for example, I think you'll agree that "most" of those 13,000,000 were NOT educated abroad. Often, IMO you'll find that the family matriarchs and patriarchs are the most poorly educated (in country, often incomplete) in these families as well.

What the well to do did was: got by with whatever system was available (and the education system now is certainly better than what was available to them then) and built their lives from there.

*naturally, if your definition of "well to do" is having a publicly listed company, then yes.... you're probably right.

[LaoPo]

It is not in the genes of the vast majority of Thai and the Upper Class wish to leave it that way.

LaoPo

Just because it's not being handed to the masses on a platter doesn't mean it's not available to them. Most of the well to do (in the general population, not the old school elites; like in a lot of places in the world) were living hand to mouth themselves just X-X generations ago.

You misunderstood the meaning of my quote, above.

One of the most respected scientists in Anthropogenic/Genetics, Prof.Dr. Hans Galjaard was asked once by President Fidel Castro of Cuba WHY his people were so lazy and dumb (...) contrary to the intelligent and hard working Chinese.

The answer was complicated and I would have to look it up but the basics were that it had to do with the Genetics of a certain population or group of people.

I do not wish to degenerate any country population/group with my answer, including Thailand, just explaining the complexity of WHY certain countries and their populations are more intelligent and hard working than others.

It's not -just- better education and/or the availability of the same. It's a lot more complex than that.

LaoPo

[Robski]

Blah-de-blah-de-blah-de-blah. ZzZzZzZzZz

[LaoPo]

Blah-de-blah-de-blah-de-blah. ZzZzZzZzZz

If you're not interested you better sleep indeed and hope you'll wake up again

LaoPo

[Heng]

It is not in the genes of the vast majority of Thai and the Upper Class wish to leave it that way.

LaoPo

Just because it's not being handed to the masses on a platter doesn't mean it's not available to them. Most of the well to do (in the general population, not the old school elites; like in a lot of places in the world) were living hand to mouth themselves just X-X generations ago.

You misunderstood the meaning of my quote, above.

One of the most respected scientists in Anthropogenic/Genetics, Prof.Dr. Hans Galjaard was asked once by President Fidel Castro of Cuba WHY his people were so lazy and dumb (...) contrary to the intelligent and hard working Chinese.

The answer was complicated and I would have to look it up but the basics were that it had to do with the Genetics of a certain population or group of people.

I do not wish to degenerate any country population/group with my answer, including Thailand, just explaining the complexity of WHY certain countries and their populations are more intelligent and hard working than others.

It's not -just- better education and/or the availability of the same. It's a lot more complex than that.

LaoPo

I hear you and I'm certainly not disagreeing with what you're saying.

[chownah]

It is not in the genes of the vast majority of Thai and the Upper Class wish to leave it that way.

LaoPo

Just because it's not being handed to the masses on a platter doesn't mean it's not available to them. Most of the well to do (in the general population, not the old school elites; like in a lot of places in the world) were living hand to mouth themselves just X-X generations ago.

You misunderstood the meaning of my quote, above.

One of the most respected scientists in Anthropogenic/Genetics, Prof.Dr. Hans Galjaard was asked once by President Fidel Castro of Cuba WHY his people were so lazy and dumb (...) contrary to the intelligent and hard working Chinese.

The answer was complicated and I would have to look it up but the basics were that it had to do with the Genetics of a certain population or group of people.

I do not wish to degenerate any country population/group with my answer, including Thailand, just explaining the complexity of WHY certain countries and their populations are more intelligent and hard working than others.

It's not -just- better education and/or the availability of the same. It's a lot more complex than that.

LaoPo

I hear you and I'm certainly not disagreeing with what you're saying.

I disagree with what he's saying but won't take the time or expend the effort to try to show where he's wrong.

[Mid]

Market faces cooling measures

Wed, July 25, 2007 : Last updated 20:53 pm

Stock Exchange of Thailand's board of directors on Wednesday resolved to end the relaxation on trading deposit requirements, to boost the market's stability.

Since January 2005, individual investors trading on cash with maximum account value of less than Bt500,000 have been allowed not to place deposits worth 10 per cent of the investment value, in a measure to boost investment in the stock exchange. The requirement will be put back in place from October 1 onwards.

Suthichai Chitvanich, executive vice president of Stock Exchange of Thailand, said after the board's meeting that the deposit requirement will boost investment discipline among investors and reduce risks on brokerage companies.

"The end of this relaxation would reduce risks of both investors and brokerage companies and increase the market stability," Suthichai said.

The Nation

[highdiver]

The financial markets shrugged off the government's new measures to ease the upward pressure on the baht yesterday, with the currency gaining slightly against the US dollar on the release of strong June export figures and foreign inflows into the stock market.

The Stock Exchange of Thailand index rose 2.12% to a 10-year high as investors breathed a sigh of relief that the currency measures appeared to impose no restrictions on foreign inflows.

lets see...

after all the last month dooms day prediction exports are up in June.

i wil say it again just for the fun of saying it..

exports in June are up...

stock market index reaches a 10 year high

baht is growing stronger. mainly due to inflow of forign capital and investments that the dooms day brigade has been warning us that will not happen.. all those predictions about investors confidence and blah blah blah:cheesy:

Mid was generous enough to point out the last huge investments in the car industries.

and the price of rubber and rice went up agian so farmers are getting more mony in baht.

the strong baht allows thais to enjoy imported products cheaper then ever. we went today to homepro to buy a 50 inch LCD for the price of 55,000 baht.

definalty a crisis....

[LaoPo]

It is not in the genes of the vast majority of Thai and the Upper Class wish to leave it that way.

LaoPo

Just because it's not being handed to the masses on a platter doesn't mean it's not available to them. Most of the well to do (in the general population, not the old school elites; like in a lot of places in the world) were living hand to mouth themselves just X-X generations ago.

You misunderstood the meaning of my quote, above.

One of the most respected scientists in Anthropogenic/Genetics, Prof.Dr. Hans Galjaard was asked once by President Fidel Castro of Cuba WHY his people were so lazy and dumb (...) contrary to the intelligent and hard working Chinese.

The answer was complicated and I would have to look it up but the basics were that it had to do with the Genetics of a certain population or group of people.

I do not wish to degenerate any country population/group with my answer, including Thailand, just explaining the complexity of WHY certain countries and their populations are more intelligent and hard working than others.

It's not -just- better education and/or the availability of the same. It's a lot more complex than that.

LaoPo

I hear you and I'm certainly not disagreeing with what you're saying.

I disagree with what he's saying but won't take the time or expend the effort to try to show where he's wrong.

Enlighten us when you find the time.

Disagreeing is fine with me but just saying so without giving any fundamentals is not appropriate.

LaoPo

[Robski]

Blah-de-blah-de-blah-de-blah. ZzZzZzZzZz

If you're not interested you better sleep indeed and hope you'll wake up again

LaoPo

This thread has become less about economics and more about personalities, a pseudo intellectual version of The Last Word.

[LaoPo]

Blah-de-blah-de-blah-de-blah. ZzZzZzZzZz

If you're not interested you better sleep indeed and hope you'll wake up again

LaoPo

This thread has become less about economics and more about personalities, a pseudo intellectual version of The Last Word.

I'm always open to learn more from a real intellectual

LaoPo

[bingobongo]

folks cant pay their debt and banks are advised to control loans and NPLs up........no unicorns in fantasyland today.....

14 BILLION baht in 1 quarter? so i guess the economy is doing swimmingly.....Not

Commercial banks urged to lend with greater caution

The Bank of Thailand has urged commercial banks to extend loans with greater caution after a latest figure shows non-performing loans in the whole financial system rose by more than 14 billion baht in the second quarter of this year.

He projected NPLs would continue to increase this year because economic conditions are unfavourable.

http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=30689

[samran]

I disagree with what he's saying but won't take the time or expend the effort to try to show where he's wrong.

Enlighten us when you find the time.

Disagreeing is fine with me but just saying so without giving any fundamentals is not appropriate.

Oi!!!!

I'll say this once and once only. Theories of this genetic based claptrap can be posted far far far away from Thai visa. Far be it for me (a mix of maybe 6 different 'races') to be an 'expert' on this, but I think you'll find that the forum rules pretty clearly state that no racial slurs are allowed, no matter how much they are dressed up with scientific mumbo jumbo.

While it may be the 'weak' genetic code that I've inhereted from a genetically inferior ancestor has made me "feeble minded" on this issue so that I "no-understand", I'm sure another dicatorial genetic trait that I've probably inherted from my Thai side makes me take great pleasure arbritarily closing down this part of the discussion and warn people that ensuing discussion will result in a very long, perhaps permanent holiday.

Lets keep this discussion on topic (whatever that is now).....Bingoboingo needs a place to post all his "Thailand is going down the toilet" messages somewhere......