1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Well worth waiting for. I only hope they keep their word about this, but you never can be sure about that. They’re just untrustworthy foreigners. 

You are now getting what the EU is prepared to give you.

Hows that taking back control working out?

BJ is doing the right thing. Get out of the EU and stop taking their orders and demands. Start governing as an independent country and doing what's best for the UK. The UK will become envy of all Europeans. Go Boris!

11 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

BJ is doing the right thing. Get out of the EU and stop taking their orders and demands. Start governing as an independent country and doing what's best for the UK. The UK will become envy of all Europeans. Go Boris!

Yes, sovereignty goes hand in hand with responsibility for the no deal

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

You are now getting what the EU is prepared to give you.

Hows that taking back control working out?

It's working out just fine really. The EU even threatening to give us a No Deal exit now.

Not long to go now and we will finally be out of the transition period without giving anymore concessions, but actually taking back more control such as in the Internal Markets Bill.

9 hours ago, robblok said:

I for one would not mind paying a bit extra tax so the EU could start a trade war to retaliate and really drive Britain in the ground. I mean there are far more people in the EU we would be far lighter hit. They started the war let Europe finish it. 

 

If you are going to blow up international agreements like rogue countries then accept that there are consequences. This is not the EU's doing this is foul play by the Brits. Put them back in their place and for once break their illusion that they are still powerful. 

 

They might be a big Economy but compared to the EU they are peanuts. Its time to stop joking around. The Leavers don't want a deal and want to cheat. Then play rough like them. Its bad for all of us but worse for them. 

 

I always liked there to be a good deal but the way those cheat in the UK play no regard for international law should just not be accepted.

Don't know why the EU is suddenly getting all moralistic and honourable about sticking to and not altering agreements.
Didn't Ireland vote no to both the Nice (2001) and Lisbon Treaties (2008) before the EU made them vote again until they gave the correct result?
Pot, kettle and black springs to mind.

2 hours ago, katana said:

Don't know why the EU is suddenly getting all moralistic and honourable about sticking to and not altering agreements.
Didn't Ireland vote no to both the Nice (2001) and Lisbon Treaties (2008) before the EU made them vote again until they gave the correct result?
Pot, kettle and black springs to mind.

No, they didn't. In the case of Nice, the initial deal was poor and got rejected (46%/54%) on a 34% turn out. A much improved deal was negotiated by the Irish and was passed 63%/37%. In the case of Lisbon, the initial deal was poor and got rejected (47%/53%). A much improved deal was negotiated by the Irish and was passed 67%/33%. It wasn't a small shift in voting in either case.

 

Re-negotiation was the key in both events. Not putting your fingers in your ears and shouting "YOU WILL DO IT MY WAY".

11 hours ago, twocatsmac said:

@transam yes I love the guy, fast cars,likes decent music,he has a good Thai lady and family. 

 

Maybe he’s an American, remember America? the country that saved Europe from itself. 

 

We’ll never forget that war because good men came to our rescue from places you think only exist in the movies. 

Why would i forget WW2 its just not relevant in topics like this only old geezers bring it up.

The only relevance is that nationalism (Guess who Johnson is an example) brought war while Europe prevented it. Maybe you should learn more from WW2 the reasons for it and look at nationalists in your country. Dangerous thing. Its those people who start wars. Maybe this time around its the Brits.

Inflammatory, troll post removed.  

 

12 hours ago, twocatsmac said:

@transam yes I love the guy, fast cars,likes decent music,he has a good Thai lady and family. 

 

Maybe he’s an American, remember America? the country that saved Europe from itself. 

 

We’ll never forget that war because good men came to our rescue from places you think only exist in the movies. 

Nice post, I am not American, but I will never forget the price/sacrifices the USA paid to help us freedom believers out....

12 hours ago, robblok said:

You should talk with Transam. You both seem to be focused on the war. That was 75 years ago. 

Well, you want to forget the war for obvious reasons, that's OK, so would I......

10 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

What a stupid clown. On January 24th, 2020, BJ signed the separation agreement with the EU (after 4 years of negotiations). And now, 9 months later, he's complaining. Is the man really so stupid that he only understands the contracts he signs after 9 months?

 

Are you a worried German by any chance........????????????

8 minutes ago, transam said:

Nice post, I am not American, but I will never forget the price/sacrifices the USA paid to help us freedom believers out....

Maybe you should also not forget it was nationalism in Germany and other countries that started it. Europe was preventing this in the last years making an united front. Now its the UK with its nationalist causing trouble. Maybe you should learn more from history then just who fought who but what causes war and see that nationalism is NOT a good thing.

This seems an opportune time to remind ourselves of a particularly relevant passage from one of Churchill's great speeches, delivered on 4th June 1940....

"We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

 

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Maybe you should also not forget it was nationalism in Germany and other countries that started it. Europe was preventing this in the last years making an united front. Now its the UK with its nationalist causing trouble. Maybe you should learn more from history then just who fought who but what causes war and see that nationalism is NOT a good thing.

Let it go now, you’ve egg on your face 2 days running.

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Maybe you should also not forget it was nationalism in Germany and other countries that started it. Europe was preventing this in the last years making an united front. Now its the UK with its nationalist causing trouble. Maybe you should learn more from history then just who fought who but what causes war and see that nationalism is NOT a good thing.

You do know that the SNP are nationalists, or doesn't that count?

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

You do know that the SNP are nationalists, or doesn't that count?

Counts too, but why did they want to break free.. because you guys wanted to break free from the EU. Its a domino that YOU guys started.

6 minutes ago, Lormak said:

This seems an opportune time to remind ourselves of a particularly relevant passage from one of Churchill's great speeches, delivered on 4th June 1940....

"We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

 

You really think the Brits from then are the Brits from now. If there is a trade war and the UK is hit hard. The ones who were not ready to leave will only get more angry. The UK is not united. The front against the leavers will only get bigger if the UK hurts financially and it does not get all the rewards that were promised them.

 

If they find out they were lied to by Boris Johnson and it starts to hurt them in the pocket. Watch out then.

7 minutes ago, twocatsmac said:

Let it go now, you’ve egg on your face 2 days running.

That is your opinion not one that i care much about. An OAP bringing up WW2 totally  not relevant then denying that nationalism causes wars.

Just now, robblok said:

Counts too, but why did they want to break free.. because you guys wanted to break free from the EU. Its a domino that YOU guys started.

They have wanted to "break free" since before the start of WW2 so lets not pretend that Brexit started this, it didn't.

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

Maybe you should also not forget it was nationalism in Germany and other countries that started it. Europe was preventing this in the last years making an united front. Now its the UK with its nationalist causing trouble. Maybe you should learn more from history then just who fought who but what causes war and see that nationalism is NOT a good thing.

It was the German government of the day, plus help of thousands from your country and others, to try and become something they were not.

The UK is a union, England, Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland, we are now fighting to get back to where we were before getting involved with you lot, and it will happen, then you lot can stew in your own juice....Good luck with that....????

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

You really think the Brits from then are the Brits from now. If there is a trade war and the UK is hit hard. The ones who were not ready to leave will only get more angry. The UK is not united. The front against the leavers will only get bigger if the UK hurts financially and it does not get all the rewards that were promised them.

 

If they find out they were lied to by Boris Johnson and it starts to hurt them in the pocket. Watch out then.

Says a Dutchman....................????

10 minutes ago, robblok said:

You really think the Brits from then are the Brits from now. If there is a trade war and the UK is hit hard. The ones who were not ready to leave will only get more angry. The UK is not united. The front against the leavers will only get bigger if the UK hurts financially and it does not get all the rewards that were promised them.

 

If they find out they were lied to by Boris Johnson and it starts to hurt them in the pocket. Watch out then.

Yes, the British now are of the same stock as the British then. If there is a trade war, if you in the EU try to starve us into submission, it will only serve to make us more determined and steadfast.

The spineless Dutch cannot comprehend the steely determination of an Englishman under duress.  We never give up, never give in. That's how we saved your country from your 'friends' on your eastern border....

1 minute ago, Victornoir said:

You know Vogie, in all the countries including mine there are regional separatist groups. Fortunately, they are clearly in the minority.

But when the governing nation gets it wrong and makes inappropriate decisions, the mass of these people increases and can become the majority.

This is what happened in Catalonia for example and is now happening in Scotland and NI.

On this principle, the economic success or failure of the UK post-Brexit will be decisive.

You can't be telling me Victor that you think that nationalism in whatever form it takes is a good thing. 

Has Catalonia had a vote to remove itself, Scotland has, and they voted to remain, they call voters who don't vote for the SNP, traitors.

The problem is with Scotland and Ireland that children from a very early age are taught to hate the English, the Irish cannot get over Cromwell and that was 300 years ago, people need to forgive and forget and not eternally carry this great big chip on their shoulder.

Charles de Gaulle said:

Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

 

24 minutes ago, Lormak said:

Yes, the British now are of the same stock as the British then. If there is a trade war, if you in the EU try to starve us into submission, it will only serve to make us more determined and steadfast.

The spineless Dutch cannot comprehend the steely determination of an Englishman under duress.  We never give up, never give in. That's how we saved your country from your 'friends' on your eastern border....

Right you just keep believing that. 

22 minutes ago, Lormak said:

Yes, the British now are of the same stock as the British then. If there is a trade war, if you in the EU try to starve us into submission, it will only serve to make us more determined and steadfast.

The spineless Dutch cannot comprehend the steely determination of an Englishman under duress.  We never give up, never give in. That's how we saved your country from your 'friends' on your eastern border....

Oh dead oh dear. What drivel Any duress has been self inflicted by opting to leave the largest trading bloc in the world and believing the sweet lies peddled by the Leavers campaign.

The cost of stupidity as the Thais say.

I understand the resentment against the influx of many east Europeanss, middle class liberal friends of mine complain about the Romanians in particular being rude and demanding, but surely there was a better way to deal with this than standing alone economically.

 

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

You can't be telling me Victor that you think that nationalism in whatever form it takes is a good thing. 

Has Catalonia had a vote to remove itself, Scotland has, and they voted to remain, they call voters who don't vote for the SNP, traitors.

The problem is with Scotland and Ireland that children from a very early age are taught to hate the English, the Irish cannot get over Cromwell and that was 300 years ago, people need to forgive and forget and not eternally carry this great big chip on their shoulder.

Charles de Gaulle said:

Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

 

Scotland voted to remain BEFORE brexit. This is a major change give them their chance to leave too. Let lil Brittain go on alone.  Ultimate pie on the face for the Brit nationalists.

 

Quote

Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

 

Patriotism is equally stupid, even more so if it’s following the above definition. Who are “your own people” and how do you “love” them? It’s equally nonsense as being “proud” of “your country”. You typically find this in people who didn’t achieve much they can actually be proud of, and who don’t have many friends and loved ones to actually love. Thus escaping into loving and being proud of something abstract as “my country” and “our people”. 
 

(Not to mention that many people when they say “patriotism” are in fact practicing hate of other people while claiming that is the patriotic thing to do.) 

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 20205 yr by welovesundaysatspace

2 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

Patriotism is equally stupid, even more so if it’s following the above definition. Who are “your own people” and how do you “love” them? It’s equally nonsense as being “proud” of “your country”. You typically find this in people who didn’t achieve much they can actually be proud of, and who don’t have many friends and loved ones to actually love. Thus escaping into loving and being proud of something abstract as “my country” and “our people”. 
 

(Not to mention that many people when they say “patriotism” are in fact practicing hate of other people while claiming that is the patriotic thing to do.) 

 

 

 

I can't agree more, usually people who did not do much with their own life need to be proud of their country for soccer matches, wars whatever. Usually things they did not do anything for but steal glory from (in a way)

 

Normal people would be proud of things they did themselves and would care about stuff they themselves did like helping the poor or building up a business. Winning some sports trophies that kind of stuff. Those proud of their country usually havent done much themselves so its easier to be proud for their country.

 

I never get the soccer craze for instance. Sure I like it if the Dutch win. (not that that ever happens). But it certainly does not make me feel proud or feel better then others. Hell the only ones who should be proud should be the players and their trainers.

1 hour ago, transam said:

Says a Dutchman....................????

Relevance? Are you not allowing them to have a voice in the forum?

All this hypocrisy....no one cared too much about the UK breaking international law by invading Iraq; Syria; selling arms to Saudis to bomb Yemeni children and hospitals; training and funding beheader jihadis; the 400 million it owed Iran but refuses to pay; the refusal to return Venezuelan gold; the refusal despite many appeals to return Diego Garcia to the Chagossians......I'm sure there are many other examples, so I wouldn't get too hot under the collar about this...you want to have your eyes opened, look at the difference in response from western governments to the attempted killings of Navalny or the Skrypals (the Skrypals who have been 'disappeared' despite the daughter saying she wanted to return to Russia) and compare it to the killing of Kashoggi. Enough said. This stuff makes me want to vomit.