Immigration Bureau Clarifies 90-day Rule Change

[mads]

I don't know what parts of Malaysia you been too, but I visited Kuala lumpur for a holiday (app. 6 days) and at the same time get my tourist visa. I havent been to a cleaner city than Kuala lumpur in this part of Asia (im not counting S.Korea and Japan)

I was so surprised to see how clean and organized everything is compared to BKK but then again thats one of the things I love

about BKK that sometimes you get the feeling that you are in an uncivilized world (not meant in any bad way).

I admire KL for their clean city but I would never want to change it for BKK.

I dont understand why people are making so a big fuss about this visa stuff. Take a vacation every 3rd month, go to Singapore, Malaysia, Australia or where ever you feel like going and at the same time have some fun and a little time away from BKK. I understand the consulates in the neighbouring countries like Laos, Burma(myanmar) and Cambodia because they get over run by people everyday. Try out Air asia, you might not get super deluxe but its cheap and you have a lot of choices.

And by the way doing visa runs every month is a pain in the neck and by doing the tourist visas you get 2 months and you can extend it by a month for 1900 baht, sure beats to sit in a bus, minivan or worse every month to get your next 30 days.

Actually I think Thailand could make a lot of money by issuing 2 or 3 months visas in the countrgry and maybe chae like 10.000 baht. Just a thought.......

Cheers

I tire of this nonsense.

I moved to Phuket two years ago, and here's my new solution: apply in KL for an MM2H (Malaysia My Second Home) visa.

Mine came through after three months, delayed only because of the huge number of applications recently received.

A ten year renewable visa. Come and go as frequently as you wish. Any foreigner may purchase buildings and land freehold. Capital Gains Tax on disposals reduced from 30% to 5% for MM2H holders after five years. No tax on remitted offshore income. No inheritance tax.

Why is anyone still in Thailand?

The food.

The music.

The ladies.

The culture.

The nightlife.

The economy.

Malayasia is a dirty, unfriendly, polluted, arrogant, radical society where smoking is promoted but alcohol is discouraged.

Most people are looking for a place to live, not a place to invest.

[jii]

totally disagree. please provide your total experience in malaysia?

the food nope malaysian better

the music - what music?

the ladies - yes and no. actually ive seen many more beautiful ones in malaysia but unlike thai women they aint easy. if you want one youd better be serious and become an muslim. actually i have a very good fiend who went thru the whole conversion process as he had to if he wanted to marry a muslim. he said the islam religion was very hypocritical. well i never said it was perfect. but malaysia still is better.

the culture - every country has one. you just have to look

the nightlife - well 15 years ago was better and cheaper than now and stayed open all night. and funny enough i know more than a few people here so fed up with the boring nightlife here that they take all their holidays to the philipines.

the economy - the thai economy is very unsatble id never suggest anyone to invest in thailand now. there is no govement they are answerable to no one.

have you actually been to malaysia your comments dirty, unfreindly, polluted, arrogant are not the case at all,

Why is anyone still in Thailand?

The food.

The music.

The ladies.

The culture.

The nightlife.

The economy.

Malayasia is a dirty, unfriendly, polluted, arrogant, radical society where smoking is promoted but alcohol is discouraged.

Most people are looking for a place to live, not a place to invest.

[warriors]

I wounder why all you knockers of Thailand are still using thaivisacom.

If you do not like the place then don't bother with this forum. Join the KOL forum we really dont need you here.

[Pink Mist]

what was the topic again?

lets get back on it

[z9999]

[

If these guys can't speak English they need to keep their gobs shut! Instead of making things clearer he has just talked a hole lot of rubbish that does not make sense and is not true. He claims we don't understand and complain, but after statements like this, what does he expect.......

The simplest solution when you can't understand their English is to just ask them to state it in Thai. I've always found that the explanation is much clearer when made in the language of the country.

Forty years ago, I was having difficulty getting an agreeable fare prior to taking a taxi, mainly because my spoken Thai was difficult to understand. Finally I took out a pen and piece of paper and wrote the location I wished to travel to in Thai, and all bargaining ceased and I was told to get in. Cautiously I asked, "How much?", wanting to know if that meant he had accepted my price, and he simply said, "No charge." After I got in he spoke in broken but understandable English telling me that most foreigners come to Thailand thinking that all Thais should learn their languages, but the fact that I was attempting to learn his language had pleased him so the trip was free. Not only then, but many more times when he would see me looking for a taxi.

As for Thai immigration, I think they do a great job in dealing with people from many countries and a little politeness has always gotten me satisfactory results. Ideally, just get a visa prior to entering the country.

[distortedlink]

Yes, I agree it is all rather confusing.

The solution would be that all short stay visitors be allowed a 3 months visa starting from the date of entry into the Kingdom and expiring at the end of 3 months no matter how many days spent in Thailand. Only one 3 month visa given between January & December of each year. Terminate the visa runs and border visa purchases.

Increase the non Immigrant required money investment to 2000000 baht.

This arrangement would certainly deter all the scum away and make Thailand a safer place for the Thai's and long term residents.

Why does the Thai government have to be so accommodating, no need to be afraid of world opinion, because no one wants the backpacker nomads and iffy fly by night foreigners anyway.

Edited April 28, 2007 by distortedlink

[johnleepbs]

I'm still thick headed. I don't even know how to use the reply button.

Are you saying that the 180 begins on Oct. 1 and ends on March 30 for one 180 day period and then another begins on April 1 through Sept. 30?

Or does the 180 begin on your first arrival at any time during the year?

For example:

I arrive Dec. 24, 2006 and stay for 22 days. I come back on April 6, 2007 and stay for 14 days. A total of 36 days in a 4 month period. Does my 180 days run from Dec. 24 through June 24? And then begin a new cycle on June 25th through Dec. 23rd?

The period should begin on your first entry after Oct 1, 2006. So if your first entry was Dec 24, your period begins then. Your 6 month period should reset on or around June 24.

just get a proper visa dont be a sad border runner. Ahhhhhh

[Pui]

Personally I found KL to be the most boring place I've ever been in my life. Once you've seen the petroleum towers and tried some Muslim food (which was actually very good). There is not a lot else to do. Fun by western standards is illegal.

Getting back the original post.

It all seems pretty clear to me. Everything is as before except instead of being 3 entries within a 6 month period. It is calculated on days.

Quote

The number of consecutive visa exemptions allowed is no longer limited to three

Unquote

What does disturb me:

Quote

It is up to the discretion of the Immigration officer on duty how many days to grant the new arrival.

It would be nice to plan ones trip and not be worried about meeting (as I have on many occasions a nasty little Hitler. Always female and at the new airport). I would not like to plan any aspect of my life at the discretion of a Thai official.

There no sense at all in making people do all these visa runs. Other than Thai officials have there hands in travel agencies arranging these pointless trips. The UK for example give Thai nationals 6 months on Arrival NO LESS. So why do they make us run around like idiots.

Mini bus tours to the border…

Did you ever see a Chinese person on a Visa Run? Funny that isn’t it. Some of them are foreign surely.

Sorry, I digress.

Bottom line is still; get a visa in your own country as I have for the last 4 years.

[johnleepbs]

I'm still thick headed. I don't even know how to use the reply button.

Are you saying that the 180 begins on Oct. 1 and ends on March 30 for one 180 day period and then another begins on April 1 through Sept. 30?

Or does the 180 begin on your first arrival at any time during the year?

For example:

I arrive Dec. 24, 2006 and stay for 22 days. I come back on April 6, 2007 and stay for 14 days. A total of 36 days in a 4 month period. Does my 180 days run from Dec. 24 through June 24? And then begin a new cycle on June 25th through Dec. 23rd?

The period should begin on your first entry after Oct 1, 2006. So if your first entry was Dec 24, your period begins then. Your 6 month period should reset on or around June 24.

Yes but ugly as sin are Malaysians. Good luck. Travel north. By the way this is a Thai forum

[Jimjim]

"from April 1, we now count only the days the foreigner has stayed in Thailand"

<deleted>! It has always been like that.............

No, you're wrong, it hasn't always been like that. There were reports of people on this very forum who had entered Thailand in October and stayed for a time, anyway I believe they were under 60 days total. Then they try to enter near the end of March, and are given only 7 or so days to stay until the end of the 180-day period. There was more than one report of this happening and people were dumbfounded as they were way under 90 days. This is what the official was talking about and therefore it's not <deleted>. It maybe didn't happen to everyone, but it has happened to quite a few I believe.

[mespike]

More gobbledegook. Time for them to think before rushing out another set of "rules".

Why do people state that some consulates outside Thailand are stamping something like "one visa only" when people made applications for tourist visas ?

Why are entensions to 60 day tourist visas being counted as part of the 90 days in some instances ?

Why are 7 day extensions being counted ?

Why are extensions due to illness being counted ?

Why cannot you get a non immigrant visa in SE Asia ?

Why does Thailand "give" Cambodia $20 for each person who makes a visa run ? Why not let that person sign on at the immigration office for a similar fee ?

Why do people with multiple entry non immigrant visas have to leave the country every 90 days ?

Why not make some decent, sensible and comprehensible rules ?

Lots of good "why's" here and some good ideas. Let me know when you run for office you'll get my vote.

[cobra]

The one given you can count on is:

It's not how you interpret visa regs, but how the person sitting across from you interprets them.

With wide latitude and discretion it's always going to be a bit of a crap shoot.

[Maestro]

I have met people with stamps in their passports that effectively say "This person has had too many TOURIST VISAs, and might not get one next time", but never heard of anyone actually being denied.

Here is the report of a person who was denied a tourist visa at the Thai embassy in Phnom Penh, Cambodia.

--------------

Maestro

[aussiestyle1983]

"from April 1, we now count only the days the foreigner has stayed in Thailand"

<deleted>! It has always been like that.............

No, you're wrong, it hasn't always been like that. There were reports of people on this very forum who had entered Thailand in October and stayed for a time, anyway I believe they were under 60 days total. Then they try to enter near the end of March, and are given only 7 or so days to stay until the end of the 180-day period. There was more than one report of this happening and people were dumbfounded as they were way under 90 days. This is what the official was talking about and therefore it's not <deleted>. It maybe didn't happen to everyone, but it has happened to quite a few I believe.

No you're wrong , the law was that you could only spend a total of 90 days in Thailand during a 6 month or 180 day period, staying for a maximun of 30 days at a time using the vise exempt entry system. The law and officials never said they count days you spend out of Thaialnd. But, as you are aware, the border officers can reall do and have been doing what they want. The same goes for the maximum 3 entry comment, This was never known until some frequent visitors were being refused entry after their thrid visa exempt entry, even if they'd only been here less than 90 days. So yes, I was correct, the law has always been that only days spent IN THAILAND can be counted, but what immigration officers did out of confusion or out of their own will to make trouble for some people desn't really change the law or how the process should work, because they have the descression.........

I forgot to add this..................

"The number of consecutive visa exemptions allowed is no longer limited to three, he added."

Even if some people had less than 90 days but allready had 3 visa exempt entries, some if not most of these people were being refused entry as well. This is what many people posted on this forum. As he said, "Up to the descression of the officer" so that is why we have seen many different situations.

Anyway, I have a 1 year Non O so this doesn't affect me

I just feel sorry for the people who can't get a visa -the lazy one's are a different story, too bad for them..............

Edited April 29, 2007 by aussiestyle1983

[OlRedEyes]

The one given you can count on is:

It's not how you interpret visa regs, but how the person sitting across from you interprets them.

With wide latitude and discretion it's always going to be a bit of a crap shoot.

And that's exactly how the Thai like it. Lots of leeway for tea money.

[McFarang]

I live in Phuket have a 1 year Non Imm O-B Multi Entry & Exit Visa which is fine as I work in other parts of the world.

This was issued by Thai Consulate in Dubai after a lot of paperwork & sponsorship from Sunbelt Asia.

My wife came to join me after I had got a house moved the pets and furniture applied for the same visa but only got a 3 month single entry but was told that she could extend in Thailand.

We tried to extend at Phuket immigration only to be told NO you must go out of country the same from Bangkok so at great expense I had to fly her back to Dubai where hopefully she will get the same visa as me.

So even Thai Consulates abroad do not know what Immigration in Thailand are doing.

Very confusing ,very expensive, certainly now unless laws are clarified not looking at LOS as long term.

[phuketrichard]

“From October 1, 2006 to March 31, 2007, we counted all the days from the foreigner’s first day regardless whether the foreigner was actually in Thailand or not.

“Also, foreigners were not permitted to stay in Thailand after their 180-day period had expired [counted from the foreigner’s first day], regardless whether the foreigner had stayed a full 90 days in Thailand or not,” Capt Krissarat said.

“However, the rule has been changed. From April 1, we now count only the days the foreigner has stayed in Thailand – and foreigners are now allowed to stay past the 180-day period,” he said.

I don't understand these three paragraphs at all. Would somebody be so kind as to clarify this clarification for me?

I agree.

It sounds like (in English) he was saying that after your first day of entry, you would not be allowed back in after 90 days even if you hadn't stayed for a consectutive 90 dyas, that doesn't make sense. Example, Enter October 1 and leave October 2, you only stayed for 2 days. After Dec 31 or the 90 day mark, you can not come back untill March 31 or the end of the 180 days cycle even though you only spent 2 days here. That is BS and does not make sense because that was not how it worked.

If these guys can't speak English they need to keep their gobs shut! Instead of making things clearer he has just talked a hole lot of rubbish that does not make sense and is not true. He claims we don't understand and complain, but after statements like this, what does he expect.......

"from April 1, we now count only the days the foreigner has stayed in Thailand"

<deleted>! It has always been like that.............

Hey;what ######ing diference does it make what happened BEFORE APRIL first

you now are allowed to stay in Thailand 90 days out of 180 days on a FREE entry permit

whats the big deal

It seems you all just like to make things more confusing for everyone. His English is very easy to understand and since when does what the goverment do have to make sense?

so you get your free 90 days on as many entries as you like then go to Penang/KB or where ever and apply for a single toursist visa and extend that for 30 days and that adds up to 90

and then start the whole thing over

wake up and read the laws. To me it is very clear,,

Edited April 29, 2007 by phuketrichard

[Martin]

"Very confusing ,very expensive, certainly now unless laws are clarified not looking at LOS as long term. "

I can understand the frustration expressed by 'McFarang', but it is not a cultural trait of Thais to want, and to introduce, clarified laws in the way that westernised farangs were brought up/have come to expect.

Frustrating though it may be, from time to time, to us western-centrics, that is how it is and that is how it will remain.

Personally, I wouldn't want it to change, as, whilst changing, lots of other western-culture things would creep in. Those I can well do without.

Thailand has to be taken as a package, though there is some variety in the packages that can be taken (from living in Phuket etc at one extreme to living in a remote Isaan village at the other).

Sometimes it will be frustrating that "no laws chiselled in stone" works to our disadvantage, but every day (usually imperceptibly) it works often to our advantage.

[BlackJack]

its all same same but different

I hope that clarifies things

[aussiestyle1983]

His English is very easy to understand

wake up and read the laws. To e it is vert clear,,

Well then, what can I say?

His English my not be clear to some, including myself, or the translation was done poorly but it is still a lot clearer than your English!

[MarcHolt]

I am trying to logically understand these same paragraphs but cannot. When I think I understand what is being written the next sentence goes another way. Can you rewrite the same thing in a different order?

Thanks.

As I understand it:

They are no longer enforcing the 180 day rule.

They are no longer counting the days that you are not in the country.

The number of days you may receive on entry is entirely at the discretion of the Immigration officer, with an upper limit of 30 days each entry.

If you want to stay longer, you should apply for a visa at a Thai embassy or consulate.

Hope that clarifies things.

Edited April 29, 2007 by MarcHolt

[rexall]

I can understand the frustration expressed by 'McFarang', but it is not a cultural trait of Thais to want, and to introduce, clarified laws in the way that westernised farangs were brought up/have come to expect. Frustrating though it may be, from time to time, to us western-centrics, that is how it is and that is how it will remain.

Sun 29 Apr 07, 9:00 a.m.

What you say makes a lot of sense, Martin. But it begins to break down the more you consider that this is the 21st Century, the Age of Globalization. If any country takes the bait of globalization, certain obligatory "Western" things go along with the resulting increase in revenue, commerce, development, technology, "improved" standard of living, which should at least "trickle down" if nothing else. Replacing the Asian preference for ambiguity with clarity, critical thinking, and precision in communicating is expected, and is a skill that can be acquired, albeit not without some pain. Sure, there are powerful forces with would prefer Thailand to preserve the status quo as a "banana republic" because it enriches certain, small, elite elements in Thai society. However, taking a broader view; attempting to have ones cake and eat it too cannot, in my opinion, lead to anything but conflict and tepid success, if that.

Sure, one may hate the idea of globalization in principle, but without it, what future has Thailand got? If you want to globalize, you had better learn to say what you mean and mean what you say or you are going nowhere fast!

Aloha,

Rex

[wilko]

clarify - To make clear or easier to understand; elucidate: clarified her intentions.

To clear of confusion or uncertainty: clarify the mind.

can someone tell me how this applies to the statement by the officer in OP????

[BigSnake]

My Dear Captain, now I am really compfuse, oh well let me read it again. WOW!!

[ggwyn]

I can see from some of the postings that one thing is unclear to many people....

Embassy issued visas have got nothing to do with Visa exemptions, commonly referred to as “visas on arrival”

[wilko]

Erroneously referred to Visas on Arrival! - different animal!

Edited April 29, 2007 by wilko

[wilko]

I can understand the frustration expressed by 'McFarang', but it is not a cultural trait of Thais to want, and to introduce, clarified laws in the way that westernised farangs were brought up/have come to expect. Frustrating though it may be, from time to time, to us western-centrics, that is how it is and that is how it will remain.

Sun 29 Apr 07, 9:00 a.m.

What you say makes a lot of sense, Martin. But it begins to break down the more you consider that this is the 21st Century, the Age of Globalization. If any country takes the bait of globalization, certain obligatory "Western" things go along with the resulting increase in revenue, commerce, development, technology, "improved" standard of living, which should at least "trickle down" if nothing else. Replacing the Asian preference for ambiguity with clarity, critical thinking, and precision in communicating is expected, and is a skill that can be acquired, albeit not without some pain. Sure, there are powerful forces with would prefer Thailand to preserve the status quo as a "banana republic" because it enriches certain, small, elite elements in Thai society. However, taking a broader view; attempting to have ones cake and eat it too cannot, in my opinion, lead to anything but conflict and tepid success, if that.

Sure, one may hate the idea of globalization in principle, but without it, what future has Thailand got? If you want to globalize, you had better learn to say what you mean and mean what you say or you are going nowhere fast!

Aloha,

Rex

Hear! Hear!

[jii]

[ijust dont understand why few seem to get the message. the thai goverment does not want people to follow the rules. they want you to GET OUT. come hel_l or high water get out.

they will twist the apparent rules any which way they can until they have rid the country of every non thai. or at least as much as they can get away with.

if it was just a simple case of lets gets people following the rules then why did they change the work permit rules 5 times in 2 years? simple reason further ways to rid the country of non thais.

why at immigration points have the thai immigration screwed people without remorse? screaming?

further if it just case of following the rules right now for anyone to justify what they are doing? and why there has been zero help trying to get info out of bangkok immgration exactly what the rules are and how a person can stay on the right side of the law? i got one friend how tried to do everything 100 percent correct as he was told he got screwed over real bad.

why does no one seem to understand this?

[vermin on arrival]

I wounder why all you knockers of Thailand are still using thaivisacom.

If you do not like the place then don't bother with this forum. Join the KOL forum we really dont need you here.

Hey,

This is a forum on Thailand, and if people don't like things here, they should have the freedom to say so. It's not like this forum is supposed to be a love fest, and there are plenty of things that can be criticized here. I'm more than happy to here both good and bad things about the kingdom, and find out if there are better alternatives elsewhere when something is not going well.

Forewarned is forearmed

[vermin on arrival]

Yes, I agree it is all rather confusing.

The solution would be that all short stay visitors be allowed a 3 months visa starting from the date of entry into the Kingdom and expiring at the end of 3 months no matter how many days spent in Thailand. Only one 3 month visa given between January & December of each year. Terminate the visa runs and border visa purchases.

Increase the non Immigrant required money investment to 2000000 baht.

This arrangement would certainly deter all the scum away and make Thailand a safer place for the Thai's and long term residents.

Why does the Thai government have to be so accommodating, no need to be afraid of world opinion, because no one wants the backpacker nomads and iffy fly by night foreigners anyway.

So anyone with less than 2,000,00 baht in savings is scum and should be booted regardless of whether one has a wife and children here? Real nice.

I'm sure many of the mobsters who come to live in Thailand to pursue their lives of crime here or to launder their ill gotten gains have well more than that in the bank.

And tell me, are all the thais with less than 2,000,000 baht in the bank scum too, or just the foreigners?

Edited April 29, 2007 by vermin on arrival