Pandanus Bistro On Sathorn Soi 1 Is Not Honest

[farangene]

Pandanus Bistro on Sathorn Soi 1 is not honest

My wife and I recently ate at Pandanus Bar Bistro which is 200 meters down the soi at Sathorn Soi 1 (also known as Nanta or Jusmag).

The main reason for selecting this restaurant was we read a positive review of it in the weekly BK Magazine paper and wanted to check it out as a potential site for a birthday dinner get-together the following weekend for 14 people.

The restaurant has a pleasant layout and was clean and comfortable. We ate at Pandanus about 5:30PM and were the only diners in the restaurant. For some reason, the service was slow (esp. considering the lack of diners) but we were not in a rush, so no problem there.

We tried a variety of entrees, appetizers and desserts. The entrees included Sweet snapper fish (B240 and Soft shell crab (B250). We also had 2 bowls steamed rice (B20 each) and a pandanus leaf-wrapped chicken appetizer (B120). Two bottles of Singha water (B30 each) and deep-fried banana with ice cream (B80) and Thai bananas in coconut milk (B70) completed our dinner. The food was okay with some portions on the small side (ie crab). On average, the prices were slightly higher than expected for a restaurant of this caliber but not at all outrageous.

The outrageous part came when we "checked bin'.

They gave us a machine printed receipt that was very legible. We always audit our bills based on numerous errors we have found over the years in Thai restaurants. The bill showed individual food items then a subtotal for the food amount and 10% services charges. We could not get the amount for food to agree with their sub-total printed before services charge. There was a difference of 60 baht. We thought that perhaps, the cashier had (inadvertently of course) not cleared the cash register.

When my wife asked him about it, the cashier reconfirmed that the subtotal amount of food was correct. There was a vat of 7% "hidden" in it (his words). Bingo..... no wonder we were confused looking for numbers to reconcile the bill because they were not there!!

She asked him why the vat was not presented on the bill. He said not every restaurant has the same procedure to show the amounts. During our seven+ years of living in Thailand, this is the only restaurant that charged vat but did not reflect it as an item in the bill. We eat at restaurants at least once a day.

To top it off, a 10% service charge was shown after the hidden VAT and menu priced items. I thought it was trickery to first hide the VAT and then disingenuous to charge 10% service on top of the VAT. I have no problem paying either VAT or service charge but strongly disagree with the way this restaurant hid the charges and then double dipped on the service charge. The amounts here were small (60-70 baht) as our total bill was slightly above 1000 baht.

We had seen the “hi- so” young female owner talking on her phone for the first 40 minutes while we ate at one of the nearby tables. When the cashier explained what they did to finagle the amounts on the bill, my wife asked to talk directly with the owner. My wife was obviously unhappy with the deceit and was going to tell the owner about her bistro's apparent lack of honesty and transparency in a nice Thai way. The cashier said she was busy in her office and could not be disturbed...

After collecting our change, we left the restaurant. Obviously, we will not be returning with our party of 14 diners for the birthday dinner. Short-sighted restaurant owners shoot themselves in the foot again.

I would be very surprised if the Pandanus bistro is still operating in 2008.

[sbk]

Forgive my confusion, but were you upset that the 10% service charge was on top of the VAT (ie the 10% was not on the food alone but VAT as well) or just that you didn't feel the need to pay a service charge (which is unrelated to VAT in anyway, but is, rather, a method of including the tip) and the VAT?

[Graphics]

Normal thing over here.

Triple-price foreigners.

Like I read few days ago in the Newspaper, Welcome to the "land of Fake Smiles".

[farangsay]

Forgive my confusion, but were you upset that the 10% service charge was on top of the VAT (ie the 10% was not on the food alone but VAT as well) or just that you didn't feel the need to pay a service charge (which is unrelated to VAT in anyway, but is, rather, a method of including the tip) and the VAT?

I know I am a simple minded soul , but I do not accept places that display prices

followed by a discreet and small ++. I think it it is not too difficult to display the

price the customer will actually pay. The establishment can do whatever accounting

they like behind that and they will have less customers leaving with that ripped-off

feeling. Also "service charge" does not equal "tip". Tips are cash , which in any half

decent place go into a jar and are shared by the employees at the end of the shift.

"Service charges" are not.

[sbk]

My understanding of service charges were that they were divided up amongst the employees. Any cash tip goes on top of that. Perhaps I am incorrect.

Regardless, I can understand the annoyance of the "hidden" VAT charge, not sure the point in keeping VAT hidden since, presumably, they must pay it anyway.

[mosquitoman]

My understanding of service charges were that they were divided up amongst the employees. Any cash tip goes on top of that. Perhaps I am incorrect.

When a service charge is added to my bill, I ask the staff if the money goes to them or the buisness, if they say it goes to the buisness, I do not pay it when I settle the bill, but then hand the money directly to the staff as a tip. If it goes to the staff I pay the service charge, I have only done this in the UK as I have never been anywhere in Thailand where they add a service charge. It might not go down to well here either.

MM

Edited April 30, 2007 by mosquitoman

[farangsay]

My understanding of service charges were that they were divided up amongst the employees. Any cash tip goes on top of that. Perhaps I am incorrect.

Regardless, I can understand the annoyance of the "hidden" VAT charge, not sure the point in keeping VAT hidden since, presumably, they must pay it anyway.

My understanding is not the same as yours but , whatever.

As to the point of the iniquitous ++ scam , it is simple.

You walk down a street where every bar has a price (70b) prominently displayed

for a popular beer and you walk into one (displaying the same price) but you did

not understand the ++ thing.

You get your bill and congratulations you've just paid 82b for your beer.

[farangene]

Forgive my confusion, but were you upset that the 10% service charge was on top of the VAT (ie the 10% was not on the food alone but VAT as well) or just that you didn't feel the need to pay a service charge (which is unrelated to VAT in anyway, but is, rather, a method of including the tip) and the VAT?

I don't mind paying service charge and/or vat. I think that restaurants should not be allowed to charge service charge on top of the vat amount. VAT should be calculated on the food or goods bought only. If I want to tip extra for good service, I will and do so.

My wife thinks that not showing the vat amount on the bill might have been a scam on the tax collector. I recall after '97 that vat was set aside for awhile and still today some restaurants still do not charge for vat.

[backflip]

"Normal thing over here. Triple-price foreigners."

Yeah, the extra 60THB he was charged is a real gravy train for the restaurant owner.

[kiakaha]

Pandanus Bistro on Sathorn Soi 1 is not honest

My wife and I recently ate at Pandanus Bar Bistro which is 200 meters down the soi at Sathorn Soi 1 (also known as Nanta or Jusmag).

The main reason for selecting this restaurant was we read a positive review of it in the weekly BK Magazine paper and wanted to check it out as a potential site for a birthday dinner get-together the following weekend for 14 people.

The restaurant has a pleasant layout and was clean and comfortable. We ate at Pandanus about 5:30PM and were the only diners in the restaurant. For some reason, the service was slow (esp. considering the lack of diners) but we were not in a rush, so no problem there.

We tried a variety of entrees, appetizers and desserts. The entrees included Sweet snapper fish (B240 and Soft shell crab (B250). We also had 2 bowls steamed rice (B20 each) and a pandanus leaf-wrapped chicken appetizer (B120). Two bottles of Singha water (B30 each) and deep-fried banana with ice cream (B80) and Thai bananas in coconut milk (B70) completed our dinner. The food was okay with some portions on the small side (ie crab). On average, the prices were slightly higher than expected for a restaurant of this caliber but not at all outrageous.

The outrageous part came when we "checked bin'.

They gave us a machine printed receipt that was very legible. We always audit our bills based on numerous errors we have found over the years in Thai restaurants. The bill showed individual food items then a subtotal for the food amount and 10% services charges. We could not get the amount for food to agree with their sub-total printed before services charge. There was a difference of 60 baht. We thought that perhaps, the cashier had (inadvertently of course) not cleared the cash register.

When my wife asked him about it, the cashier reconfirmed that the subtotal amount of food was correct. There was a vat of 7% "hidden" in it (his words). Bingo..... no wonder we were confused looking for numbers to reconcile the bill because they were not there!!

She asked him why the vat was not presented on the bill. He said not every restaurant has the same procedure to show the amounts. During our seven+ years of living in Thailand, this is the only restaurant that charged vat but did not reflect it as an item in the bill. We eat at restaurants at least once a day.

To top it off, a 10% service charge was shown after the hidden VAT and menu priced items. I thought it was trickery to first hide the VAT and then disingenuous to charge 10% service on top of the VAT. I have no problem paying either VAT or service charge but strongly disagree with the way this restaurant hid the charges and then double dipped on the service charge. The amounts here were small (60-70 baht) as our total bill was slightly above 1000 baht.

We had seen the “hi- so” young female owner talking on her phone for the first 40 minutes while we ate at one of the nearby tables. When the cashier explained what they did to finagle the amounts on the bill, my wife asked to talk directly with the owner. My wife was obviously unhappy with the deceit and was going to tell the owner about her bistro's apparent lack of honesty and transparency in a nice Thai way. The cashier said she was busy in her office and could not be disturbed...

After collecting our change, we left the restaurant. Obviously, we will not be returning with our party of 14 diners for the birthday dinner. Short-sighted restaurant owners shoot themselves in the foot again.

I would be very surprised if the Pandanus bistro is still operating in 2008.

For heaven's sake, please dont go and eat at Vertigo then, you'd need a team of accountants to audit your 10,000 baht + bill..haha.

[t.s]

Pandanus Bistro on Sathorn Soi 1 is not honest

My wife and I recently ate at Pandanus Bar Bistro which is 200 meters down the soi at Sathorn Soi 1 (also known as Nanta or Jusmag).

The main reason for selecting this restaurant was we read a positive review of it in the weekly BK Magazine paper and wanted to check it out as a potential site for a birthday dinner get-together the following weekend for 14 people.

The restaurant has a pleasant layout and was clean and comfortable. We ate at Pandanus about 5:30PM and were the only diners in the restaurant. For some reason, the service was slow (esp. considering the lack of diners) but we were not in a rush, so no problem there.

We tried a variety of entrees, appetizers and desserts. The entrees included Sweet snapper fish (B240 and Soft shell crab (B250). We also had 2 bowls steamed rice (B20 each) and a pandanus leaf-wrapped chicken appetizer (B120). Two bottles of Singha water (B30 each) and deep-fried banana with ice cream (B80) and Thai bananas in coconut milk (B70) completed our dinner. The food was okay with some portions on the small side (ie crab). On average, the prices were slightly higher than expected for a restaurant of this caliber but not at all outrageous.

The outrageous part came when we "checked bin'.

They gave us a machine printed receipt that was very legible. We always audit our bills based on numerous errors we have found over the years in Thai restaurants. The bill showed individual food items then a subtotal for the food amount and 10% services charges. We could not get the amount for food to agree with their sub-total printed before services charge. There was a difference of 60 baht. We thought that perhaps, the cashier had (inadvertently of course) not cleared the cash register.

When my wife asked him about it, the cashier reconfirmed that the subtotal amount of food was correct. There was a vat of 7% "hidden" in it (his words). Bingo..... no wonder we were confused looking for numbers to reconcile the bill because they were not there!!

She asked him why the vat was not presented on the bill. He said not every restaurant has the same procedure to show the amounts. During our seven+ years of living in Thailand, this is the only restaurant that charged vat but did not reflect it as an item in the bill. We eat at restaurants at least once a day.

To top it off, a 10% service charge was shown after the hidden VAT and menu priced items. I thought it was trickery to first hide the VAT and then disingenuous to charge 10% service on top of the VAT. I have no problem paying either VAT or service charge but strongly disagree with the way this restaurant hid the charges and then double dipped on the service charge. The amounts here were small (60-70 baht) as our total bill was slightly above 1000 baht.

We had seen the “hi- so” young female owner talking on her phone for the first 40 minutes while we ate at one of the nearby tables. When the cashier explained what they did to finagle the amounts on the bill, my wife asked to talk directly with the owner. My wife was obviously unhappy with the deceit and was going to tell the owner about her bistro's apparent lack of honesty and transparency in a nice Thai way. The cashier said she was busy in her office and could not be disturbed...

After collecting our change, we left the restaurant. Obviously, we will not be returning with our party of 14 diners for the birthday dinner. Short-sighted restaurant owners shoot themselves in the foot again.

I would be very surprised if the Pandanus bistro is still operating in 2008.

For heaven's sake, please dont go and eat at Vertigo then, you'd need a team of accountants to audit your 10,000 baht + bill..haha.

for heavens sake, please eat at home.

[hotgeekus]

how much was the taxi there and back?

[sitthbkk]

So, let me get this right ....

The complaint here is about the VAT in the bill .... and it totalled 60 baht?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

So, let me get this right ....

The complaint here is about the VAT in the bill .... and it totalled 60 baht?

[bangkapiboy]

VAT and SERVICE charges should and normally are announced in the menu. If it isn't, then houston we have a problem!

[triplegee]

Ate there last week - still going strong!! And the food was great...

[orchis]

went there once, amateurish set up and horrible food.

in nearby sri bumpen you can eat well for less at moon house, om yim and lido.

just one and cybele (vicky l'amour) on ngam duplee are more expensive but good (except for the desserts at cybele which are not daily fresh).

avoid mali as their service and food has gone down the drain.

Edited July 9, 2009 by orchis

[thaihome]

My understanding is not the same as yours but , whatever.

As to the point of the iniquitous ++ scam , it is simple.

You walk down a street where every bar has a price (70b) prominently displayed

for a popular beer and you walk into one (displaying the same price) but you did

not understand the ++ thing.

You get your bill and congratulations you've just paid 82b for your beer.

Don't ever go to Singapore. You will starve to death and get very thirsty. Everywhere is +++ (they have third plus )

You people crack me up.

TH

Edited July 10, 2009 by thaihome

[Ulysses G.]

My understanding of service charges were that they were divided up amongst the employees. Any cash tip goes on top of that. Perhaps I am incorrect.

You are correct in honest establishments, but many, many businesses in Thailand use the service charge for the employees salary. In other words, they rip them off!

[tb86]

Why would you have a problem paying vat and service charge? Where do you normaly eat that dosent have vat and srvc charge other than little thai restaurants? I hate to break it to you but its pretty much commonplace to expect to pay these charges.... why would anyone bother to print it on the menu, would it change what you ordered? I dont think they are being dishonest, i think maybe your just not used to eating at western style restaurants.... I would be embarrased to have made this much something about a normal practice. Im sure the staff had a hard time explaining it because its not something that is usualy challenged. That is unless I have totaly misunderstood your post you are complaining about the 10% service charge and 7% vat?

And especially for a party of 14, they just cant have you being cheap and not leaving a tip on a table of 14....

Edited July 11, 2009 by tb86

[robblok]

Why would you have a problem paying vat and service charge? Where do you normaly eat that dosent have vat and srvc charge other than little thai restaurants? I hate to break it to you but its pretty much commonplace to expect to pay these charges.... why would anyone bother to print it on the menu, would it change what you ordered? I dont think they are being dishonest, i think maybe your just not used to eating at western style restaurants.... I would be embarrased to have made this much something about a normal practice. Im sure the staff had a hard time explaining it because its not something that is usualy challenged. That is unless I have totaly misunderstood your post you are complaining about the 10% service charge and 7% vat?

And especially for a party of 14, they just cant have you being cheap and not leaving a tip on a table of 14....

I might not be used to it but i would find it real anoying that prices go up and there is no mention of it. If you sell a product then put the price that the customer has to pay somewhere.

I havent seen it in places like Sizler, Pizza company, Oishi, MK and so on and so on. Not saying that these are fancy restaurants but they are also not small thai shops. I like to know what im paying before i order and not get hit with extra charges later

If its mentioned somewhere that prices are exclusive service charge and VAT ok. If it isnt mentioned its a rip off.

[tb86]

Its no different than sales tax in the west, you would assume when you purchase a item in a store that there will be tax on said item. You wouldn't go online and complain about it, one would imagine, would you? And you were planning on leaving at least a 10% tip no? So your upset about paying vat that is attached to all items in this country, granted most products have the tax built in. Hotels, and most all other mid level and up restaurants / services will add it on to the total bill .

[tb86]

So, let me get this right ....

The complaint here is about the VAT in the bill .... and it totalled 60 baht?

well they can always get the restaurant to fill out the vat sheet, and collect their refund on the way back to the land of no taxes or hidden charges

[robblok]

Its no different than sales tax in the west, you would assume when you purchase a item in a store that there will be tax on said item. You wouldn't go online and complain about it, one would imagine, would you? And you were planning on leaving at least a 10% tip no? So your upset about paying vat that is attached to all items in this country, granted most products have the tax built in. Hotels, and most all other mid level and up restaurants / services will add it on to the total bill .

Maybe in your country but in mine everything is included in the price that shops display. No hidden charges. Its even forbidden to advertise with EX VAT. (unless you only target companies).

I think you should say sales tax in the USA .. doubt the whole west is USA only.

Anyway they should just mention it somewhere because its not something that is always done some do and some dont.

[sabaijai]

Its no different than sales tax in the west, you would assume when you purchase a item in a store that there will be tax on said item. You wouldn't go online and complain about it, one would imagine, would you? And you were planning on leaving at least a 10% tip no? So your upset about paying vat that is attached to all items in this country, granted most products have the tax built in. Hotels, and most all other mid level and up restaurants / services will add it on to the total bill .

Maybe in your country but in mine everything is included in the price that shops display. No hidden charges. Its even forbidden to advertise with EX VAT. (unless you only target companies).

I think you should say sales tax in the USA .. doubt the whole west is USA only.

Anyway they should just mention it somewhere because its not something that is always done some do and some dont.

It's common practice in Thailand not to mention VAT in advance (though some hotel restaurant menus do note it) because it's considered common knowledge.

[robblok]

Its no different than sales tax in the west, you would assume when you purchase a item in a store that there will be tax on said item. You wouldn't go online and complain about it, one would imagine, would you? And you were planning on leaving at least a 10% tip no? So your upset about paying vat that is attached to all items in this country, granted most products have the tax built in. Hotels, and most all other mid level and up restaurants / services will add it on to the total bill .

Maybe in your country but in mine everything is included in the price that shops display. No hidden charges. Its even forbidden to advertise with EX VAT. (unless you only target companies).

I think you should say sales tax in the USA .. doubt the whole west is USA only.

Anyway they should just mention it somewhere because its not something that is always done some do and some dont.

It's common practice in Thailand not to mention VAT in advance (though some hotel restaurant menus do note it) because it's considered common knowledge.

Then i learned something new today. I did not know this. Are we talking restaurants only ? (strange that large chains like pizza company, mk, mc donalds, sizzler, and others dont do it)

[zorro1]

I do my best to avoid establishments with ++ Im not tipping 10% on a 3000bht tab that may not provide good service. In any case 300bht is a days wages in Thailand. would you tip $150 for a feed in OZ, UK,USA? why on earth would you do it here?

[sabaijai]

Its no different than sales tax in the west, you would assume when you purchase a item in a store that there will be tax on said item. You wouldn't go online and complain about it, one would imagine, would you? And you were planning on leaving at least a 10% tip no? So your upset about paying vat that is attached to all items in this country, granted most products have the tax built in. Hotels, and most all other mid level and up restaurants / services will add it on to the total bill .

Maybe in your country but in mine everything is included in the price that shops display. No hidden charges. Its even forbidden to advertise with EX VAT. (unless you only target companies).

I think you should say sales tax in the USA .. doubt the whole west is USA only.

Anyway they should just mention it somewhere because its not something that is always done some do and some dont.

It's common practice in Thailand not to mention VAT in advance (though some hotel restaurant menus do note it) because it's considered common knowledge.

Then i learned something new today. I did not know this. Are we talking restaurants only ? (strange that large chains like pizza company, mk, mc donalds, sizzler, and others dont do it)

Now you know. Fast-food joints include VAT in the price to save time at the register. Streetside vendors and small restos don't charge VAT because they often aren't paying VAT to the government. Most upper-end places, like Pandanus, quote pre-VAT prices on the menu, and add VAT to the bill. Standard practice.

[tb86]

I do my best to avoid establishments with ++ Im not tipping 10% on a 3000bht tab that may not provide good service. In any case 300bht is a days wages in Thailand. would you tip $150 for a feed in OZ, UK,USA? why on earth would you do it here?

if 150 was 10-15% of the bill of course I would, When you have large parties in the us 10 or more people, or when ijn a fine dining situation it is often commonplace to tip that high.

[getgoin]

My understanding of service charges were that they were divided up amongst the employees. Any cash tip goes on top of that. Perhaps I am incorrect.

You are correct in honest establishments, but many, many businesses in Thailand use the service charge for the employees salary. In other words, they rip them off!

All businesses in Thailand use the service charge for employee salaries.

That employers rip off the employees by using service charge for salaries is a misinformed statement. While most like to perceive service charges as gratuities, myself included, they are used as salaries and as a salary add on to supplement low salaries.

Thai law does define service charges as gratuities and does not require that service charges be used as gratuities for staff.

While I have seen many service charges added to my bills I have yet to see a gratuity added to my bill in Thailand.

Employers have to pay VAT on the service charge.

Minimum wages paid to employees who receive salary additions or "perceived gratuities" actually help the employer by reducing their taxes and come back to hurt the employees when they try to collect severance, social security or unemployment pay and also leads to large seasonal swings in salaries for the employee.

While many in Thailand still subscribe to the old days before VAT, service charges and other taxes the day is coming when the built in pricing of many businesses will give way to the western system of adding it to the bill.

In the case of the Pandanus Bistro I would expect that one would be accustomed to ++ in Bangkok but it is also the law that it must be stated on the bill that the ++ will be added.