Thailand's stray dogs: Rabies alert as six primary school kids savaged at breaktime

[Airbagwill]

7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Interesting but not Pattaya news, Sri Racha news. 

 

Here's some Pattaya dog news, they've been sterilizing dogs, incl in Pratumnak, but just too many around so it will be half a job so next snipers required 

I would try to get hold of the figures for Phuket - it has a far smaller dog population and it is rabies-free. The main concern on Phuket is the re-introduction of rabies via puppies brought for sale from the mainland..

 

"With cooperation from the province’s local authorities, the Soi Dog Foundation has sterilised and vaccinated more than 15,000 dogs and 2,000-plus cats on the island during the two years of its mobile clinic programme, thus preventing them from reproducing and protecting them from rabies.

There has to be a continuous program to keep CNVR going but once the main task is completed, it is much easier to handle." - The Nation 2014.

 

One other problem that SDF have pointed out is the way that any Soi Dog charities work - they don't practice CNVR properly and just feed and care for the dogs which are then sent untreated back onto the streets.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Airbagwill

[Odisan]

19 minutes ago, Ks45672 said:

I poison the local ones whenever necessary and if I'm lucky I sometimes run them over when I'm driving

Where's karma when you need it...

[Airbagwill]

41 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Dogs cannot move in to take the dead ones place if they are dead as well.

Possibly the most facile comment on the thread - you cannot simultaneously eradicate 64000 dogs - how daft can you get!

 

as for capturing them just read up on what happened a couple of years back in BKK when they tried to do this.

You simply have no idea of the practicalities of capturing or kill this number of dogs - and that is in BKK alone.

 

PS - you might look into the cost too........

I have to say this thread is attracting a large number of people who think they have an opinion on a subject about which they don't know the first thing.

 

 

“The misconception that culling is the best way to reduce dog populations or stamp out threats to public health causes enormous suffering. It’s ineffective too, as evidence shows that culling doesn’t reduce numbers of dogs in the long term.

https://www.worldanimalprotection.org/our-work/protecting-animals-communities/better-lives-dogs “

 

It has been found, often through bitter experience of failed culls, that environmental controls are often the most effective way to deal with any large population of unwanted animals, whatever the species. Over population of an environment by one particular species skews the natural balance and leads to environmental, social and health problems.

 

Dogs roam the streets in many parts of the world. But sometimes they may cause concern in the communities where they live.

Roaming dogs may pose a threat to public health by spreading rabies or other diseases, they may cause damage to livestock and wildlife, or they may behave aggressively towards people.

While killing animals temporarily reduces the number, populations quickly bounce back, and culls can actually increase the population long-term. 

When there are fewer dogs living in the same habitat, there is more food for the remaining. So when dogs are culled without reducing their resources, the remaining dogs give birth more successfully and more pups are likely to survive, and the survival rate improves.

 

This is known as the  "compensatory rebound" effect and  is evolutionary in most mammals when there's a sudden decrease in the population, a species survival kicks in to induce a high reproductive rate

 

 

Steps then need to be taken to exclude dogs from sources of food such as “kind-hearted” people, rubbish dumps and abattoirs, by installing animal-proof rubbish containers and effective domestic waste disposal systems.

 

This can be linked with other methods, such as neutering - “catch, neuter, replace - to avoid animal welfare problems. And will achieve  a gradual reduction in the  targeted population.

Failure to “replace” will only allow the introduction of new animals from outside.

 

This principle. can be applies to animal populations in many circumstances and has been used by sports hunters to increase their prey.: - 

"The general theory of harvesting animals is based on the premise that when animals are not harvested at all, growth and recruitment are balanced by natural mortality and that the average growth rate of a population at its carrying capacity is zero. Harvesting reduces the population size, but the reduction results in an increase in the growth rate of the population. This increase in growth rate is brought about because of higher birth rates and lower death rates resulting from decreased competition for resources. This increased growth rate provides a surplus of individuals above the number required to replace the population, and this surplus can be harvested." - [ William Robinson, Wildlife Ecology and Management]

 

So - the killing never stops; culls must be repeated again and again

 

As cities who have done culls have shown, the killing

doesn't stop. It is never "one and done"; one of the nation's

largest culling contractors says culls should be done

"like mowing a lawn." Culling must be done year-after-year;

Jackson is on their 9th year of culling deer.

 After 17 years of deer culling, the city of Stevens Point, WI

determined the deer population was "roughly the same

as it was." Is this the kind of "solution" we want?

 

Killing creatures in a large population creates gaps - a “vacuum”...

Nature abhors a vacuum.  When a resource-rich area becomes vacant due to a reduced population following a cull, some animals will migrate in from adjacent lands to take advantage of those resources. 

 

The human built environment is perfect for dogs - shelter, food/garbage and water abound, culling often only improves the health of the population allowing them to breed faster and live longer producing an exponential number of pups.

 

 

 

It’s like painting the forth bridge or taking a sledgehammer to crack a rubber nut.

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by Airbagwill

[Airbagwill]

PS - Have any of the dogs or children actually tested positive for Rabies virus?

[Airbagwill]

18 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Interesting but not Pattaya news, Sri Racha news. 

 

Here's some Pattaya dog news, they've been sterilizing dogs, incl in Pratumnak, but just too many around so it will be half a job so next snipers required 

Not true....

[cardinalblue]

Poor choice or words in title - trying for sensationalism...

[Keyser Soze666]

How the <deleted> did I end up living in this utter sh!thole? 

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

We had a lot of cats at our farm a few years back. Are rabies in cats a problem? What are the symptoms? 

 

Our cat is not at her best. I worry for her and not the family; perhaps I should.

 

I'm gonna do some research on this.

 

Great post.

ANY mammal, domestic or wild can carry rabies - if they break the skin of another person or animal then the virus can be transmitted. 

Dogs are the main carrier of rabies in Thailand, followed by cows and cats. However it needs to be remembered that PETS ae more likely to infect you than a Soi Dog. Close contact with a "friendly" pet is enough. 

&0% to *0% vaccination creates a "herd immunity" but Thai owners of cats and dogs don't get them vaccinated so this can lead to the spread of the disease.

 

Rabies is relatively low in Thailand and their were plenty of drugs available to cope with both animals and humans. but recently this has been questioned due to poor quality. It is possibly present trough the country (even the islands) but only occasionally spikes and than gets into the news.

Deaths per annum are around 10 to 20.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pique Dard]

i like dogs, but i'm afraid of those stray dogs especially in pattaya

[Airbagwill]

9 minutes ago, cardinalblue said:

Poor choice or words in title - trying for sensationalism...

Yes - as you can see from some of the gibberish on this thread, it results in uniformed, knee-jerk reactions such as pointless culls. the last time it lead to a round up of dogs that achieved nothing apart from crating some gruesome dog ghettoes and increasing the chances of disease transmission.

[riclag]

round them up ,all those soi maa's and send them packin to Vietnam, they'll know what to do with them 

Edited October 7, 2020 by riclag

[Thingamabob]

8 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Buddhism does not stop them all eating meat and that cannot be done with killing masses of animals. There is another reason when it comes the the reluctance to deal with soi dogs, and I think we all know what that is.

I don't know what that is. Grateful you explain.

[Thingamabob]

3 minutes ago, riclag said:

round them up ,all those soi maa's and send them packin to Vietnam, they'll know what to do with them 

You're sick. See a doctor.

[Airbagwill]

13 minutes ago, riclag said:

round them up ,all those soi maa's and send them packin to Vietnam, they'll know what to do with them 

A facile and racist comment.

[riclag]

4 hours ago, vandeventer said:

Where I live it is mating season and the male dogs run in packs of around 20 dogs looking for female dogs. Now most of these dogs had owners at a early age but when the dogs grew older nobody wanted them. So they dump them in Temples or just let them go in the streets. This is a Thai problem and they need to do a better job taking care of their pets.

 Taking care, yup, my new neighbor must of heard you ! He's got 7 small yapper mongrels',  that bark anytime they hear a rooster crow a doodle!

My life was so peaceful and pleasant until puchai maa moved in! ????

Edited October 7, 2020 by riclag

[Airbagwill]

33 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Not true....

According to the SDF the neutering campaign is proceeding in Bangkok and ended on Koh Samui, with a maintenance programme in Phuket.

 

[Airbagwill]

9 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Buddhism does not stop them all eating meat and that cannot be done with killing masses of animals. There is another reason when it comes the the reluctance to deal with soi dogs, and I think we all know what that is.

Trying to paint all Thais with one brush saying that it is a Buddhist thing is just lazy racist stereotyping

[Airbagwill]

5 hours ago, vandeventer said:

Where I live it is mating season and the male dogs run in packs of around 20 dogs looking for female dogs. Now most of these dogs had owners at a early age but when the dogs grew older nobody wanted them. So they dump them in Temples or just let them go in the streets. This is a Thai problem and they need to do a better job taking care of their pets.

As far as I'm aware there is no mating season for dogs - where did you get that idea from?

 

you have a point about temples - Monks feel obliged to feed dogs - in a misplaced concept about life being sacred......and suffering is part of it.

...and people tend to place sick or unwanted animals in temples. However this overlooks the fact that an abundance of food leads to an abundance of animals and subsequently an abundance of puppies.

 

The root cause of the dog problem in Thailand is feeding - it needs to be discouraged and shown to be an anti-social act. In the long run it helps no-one, not even the dogs.

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by Airbagwill

[Prairieboy]

11 hours ago, mr mr said:

there is no compassion aiding the spread of these filthy animals. thai people need to be educated and the entire soi dog population needs to be put down. 

Along with the 'owners' who let them breed.

 

[Airbagwill]

3 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Heres a quick explanation of how dogs thrive in Thailand

 

 

Dogs in Thailand.ppsx 1.41 MB · 3 downloads

 

102006007_DogsinThailand.ppsx

[Airbagwill]

12 minutes ago, Prairieboy said:

Along with the 'owners' who let them breed.

 

That is impossible to prevent - the owners need to neuter their pets ...as SDF is doing in BKK.... owners can take their dogs along for vaccination and neutering

[Orton Rd]

33 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Trying to paint all Thais with one brush saying that it is a Buddhist thing is just lazy racist stereotyping

Thais are a nationality not a race and I am not saying the reluctance is due to Buddhism

[Truth Will Set You Free]

11 hours ago, mr mr said:

 

11 hours ago, 2long said:

Why should humans destroy the dogs for our own convenience of living with peace of mind?

because said humans caused the problem. 

 

Thai human cause this problem. This is the only country that allow stray dogs to do as they please. I am sorry for the kids but since the Thai believe they should live as strays, then they attack Thai people. 
 

The country has problem feeding it people and you dog lovers care about strays instead of your own people. It shows how sick this country is......

[Airbagwill]

17 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Thais are a nationality not a race and I am not saying the reluctance is due to Buddhism

Classic racist cliche! 

"They are not a race they are a nationality"

"It's not a race its a religion"

"some of my best friends are...."

Why is it that racists who always argue that what they say isn't racist?

 

the fact is that Thailand like any other country is full of people with different philosophies, beliefs and needs, trying to suggest there is just one reason for the dog problem is just ignoring the whole picture and taking the easy stereotyping way out.

 

I think one of the reasons that so many expats don't understand the Soi Dog problem is that they let their racist views cloud their perception of it.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Airbagwill

[Orton Rd]

24 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Classic racist cliche! 

"They are not a race they are a nationality"

"It's not a race its a religion"

"some of my best friends are...."

Why is it that racists who always argue that what they say isn't racist?

 

the fact is that Thailand like any other country is full of people with different philosophies, beliefs and needs, trying to suggest there is just one reason for the dog problem is just ignoring the whole picture and taking the easy stereotyping way out.

 

I think one of the reasons that so many expats don't understand the Soi Dog problem is that they let their racist views cloud their perception of it.

why bring race into it at all it's about dogs and idiots not wanting to solve the problem. I say again I did not claim Buddhism is the only or main problem, so I don't understand you bringing that up. One of the problems cannot be discussed. You don't seem to understand that sterilizing a dog will not stop it savaging children, which is what the thread is about. Do give the race baiting a rest.

[ttrd]

12 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Sadly, there is neither the money, but more importantly the will to deal with the problem. Thais because of the Buddhist attitude won't put them down, leaving mass sterilisation as the only real long term solution, but that only occurs in meaninglessly small numbers. This is a story set to repeat itself again and again.

Around Thailand there are invested in hundreds of thousands of posters saying "Safety First" and still it seems that no one has read them and far less understood the meaning ...

[Airbagwill]

23 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

why bring race into it at all it's about dogs and idiots not wanting to solve the problem. I say again I did not claim Buddhism is the only or main problem, so I don't understand you bringing that up. One of the problems cannot be discussed. You don't seem to understand that sterilizing a dog will not stop it savaging children, which is what the thread is about. Do give the race baiting a rest.

QED

[whaleboneman]

8 hours ago, twizzian said:

The only problem with registering these mutts, is when the owner of the dog bites someone, suddenly they are not the owner.

Can you provide a link?

[Elkski]

Great tourist attraction.   Offer soi dog hunting.   Air rifles  or dart guns.   Just get rid of them all!

[SilverBeast]

15 hours ago, 2long said:

As far as I know it's not possible to 'test for rabies' without cutting the mammal's head off. But I'm happy to be proven wrong.

This is very sad, and a difficult situation all over the country. Why should humans destroy the dogs for our own convenience of living with peace of mind? Sterilising the females to reduce reproduction and castrating the males to reduce aggression is the only solution.

Because there is no fixing a rabid dog anyways...