Cost Of Living

[swain]

I found my dream and moved to Chiang Mai, one of the less expensive places to live in Thailand. I am not poor but if I was I would much rather be poor and live in Thailand than be poor and live in the USA. Here life can be an adventure, there its survival. As alot of us know you can be in the chips one moment... and then after ... lets say the tech bubble burst .. be somewhat lacking. Fates change.... I am not saying Thailand is for everyone.. in fact I would say it is not for most. I have invited 5 friends here and only one could get by the culture shock, the others hated it and couldn't wait to get back to the USA. This surprised the hel_l out of me... 3 were women and hands down they were the first to go.. they couldn't go to a quality bikini wax joint, or in Chiang Rai they couldnt find a place that would die their hair the right color. The biggie for them was that men were not falling at their feet as they do in the USA...

but either way... have enough money to come and stay 30-90 days with out burning your bridges at home.

[pattayadave]

I found my dream and moved to Chiang Mai, one of the less expensive places to live in Thailand. I am not poor but if I was I would much rather be poor and live in Thailand than be poor and live in the USA. Here life can be an adventure, there its survival. As alot of us know you can be in the chips one moment... and then after ... lets say the tech bubble burst .. be somewhat lacking. Fates change.... I am not saying Thailand is for everyone.. in fact I would say it is not for most. I have invited 5 friends here and only one could get by the culture shock, the others hated it and couldn't wait to get back to the USA. This surprised the hel_l out of me... 3 were women and hands down they were the first to go.. they couldn't go to a quality bikini wax joint, or in Chiang Rai they couldnt find a place that would die their hair the right color. The biggie for them was that men were not falling at their feet as they do in the USA...

but either way... have enough money to come and stay 30-90 days with out burning your bridges at home.

coulnt agree with you more

[Jingthing]

As far as being poor in Thailand versus being poor in your home country, well that depends on your flexibility and your support system in your home country. And whether you mean Thai poor or farang poor. It seems the hardest thing here would be staying legal, especially if you were the kind who can live local style.

I can say with conviction being a middle wealth level person (you richies might think I am poor, but I don't agree) it is MUCH better here materially than in the US. If assuming I paid rent for where I live (I don't though) my spending would be at about 55K per month. I do a mix, local style and farang style, and feel no deprivation whatsoever. My material enjoyment is about five times as much as the same money would buy in any livable place in the US, and thats even with our impotent dollars.

I really don't like the judgemental attitudes against poorer people. Maybe they are happy meditating their navel and find happiness other ways.

[bendix]

I really don't like the judgemental attitudes against poorer people. Maybe they are happy meditating their navel and find happiness other ways.

It's not an attack on poorer people. It's a suggestion to those that can't afford to live here properly, don't feel inclined to contribute through paying taxes or creating wealth, and who just see Thailand as a cheap alternative to living in a west in which they have patently failed to think again.

Cos if you can't succeed in the nanny societies of western europe, australiasia and to a lesser extent, the USA, Thailand will chew you up and spit you out. And those balconies are not getting any safer.

Hard? Perhaps, but I'm getting tired of seeing half-witted and penniless losers coming over and destroying the reputation of all farang at the same time.

[qualtrough]

It's much better to be poor in your own country.

I think that very much depends on your home country. If mine (USA) it definitely would be better to be a 'poor' farang here rather than back home. Poor people back home generally have to live in crappy crime-infested neighborhoods. Poor people back home either have to have a car, probably a crappy one, or endure lousy public transport options (1 hour bus waits, exorbitant taxi fees, etc.). Poor people back home don't have health insurance and have to endure long waits in emergency rooms at public hospitals to get treatment. Poor people back home don't go to the beach unless their homeless shelter or campsite happens to be located near a beach, which outside of Santa Cruz and a few other locations is unlikely.

Now compare and contrast. A 'poor' farang can get a clean, basic apartment with aircon for less than $250 bucks in areas outside the main business districts here. They will live in a safe area and not worry about being murdered or mugged either inside or outside their dwelling. They have almost unlimited cheap transportation options here (train, boat, bus, taxi, motorcycle, skytrain, subway...). If they get sick they can walk into a hospital to get a consultation for less than 1000 Baht. BTW, Bumrungrad and Samitvej are not the only good hospitals here, far from it. And finally, even poor farangs here can afford to visit the beach or travel up country, where they can find very reasonable accomodations.

Anyone who thinks it is better to be poor back home than here has either never been poor, or just hasn't been paying any attention to how the other half lives back home.

[wolfmanjack]

It's much better to be poor in your own country.

I think that very much depends on your home country. If mine (USA) it definitely would be better to be a 'poor' farang here rather than back home. Poor people back home generally have to live in crappy crime-infested neighborhoods. Poor people back home either have to have a car, probably a crappy one, or endure lousy public transport options (1 hour bus waits, exorbitant taxi fees, etc.). Poor people back home don't have health insurance and have to endure long waits in emergency rooms at public hospitals to get treatment. Poor people back home don't go to the beach unless their homeless shelter or campsite happens to be located near a beach, which outside of Santa Cruz and a few other locations is unlikely.

Now compare and contrast. A 'poor' farang can get a clean, basic apartment with aircon for less than $250 bucks in areas outside the main business districts here. They will live in a safe area and not worry about being murdered or mugged either inside or outside their dwelling. They have almost unlimited cheap transportation options here (train, boat, bus, taxi, motorcycle, skytrain, subway...). If they get sick they can walk into a hospital to get a consultation for less than 1000 Baht. BTW, Bumrungrad and Samitvej are not the only good hospitals here, far from it. And finally, even poor farangs here can afford to visit the beach or travel up country, where they can find very reasonable accomodations.

Anyone who thinks it is better to be poor back home than here has either never been poor, or just hasn't been paying any attention to how the other half lives back home.

I agree. A studio apartment back home $400 minimum. Here in Chiang Mai 2,000 baht. electric back home $200 per month here w/o AC 300 baht phone back home no long distance $40 here 200 baht. Boneless chicken breast on sale back home $2 per pound here 55 baht per kilo. I didn't go to the bar back home and do not here. black and white filet mignon at mr chan and Miss Paulines 220 baht back home ????????

Back home you need $1,000 per month to scratch out a living for 1 person. Here you can live quite well on that even at todays exchange rate.

[nick2k]

is it just me, or does it sound like we have a number of snobs on this string?

according to the bangkok post, 80% of the people living in thailand make between 4 to 6 thousand baht a month. these people put in 8 to 12 hours a day 6 days a week to make what they make.

and then, you get a few foreigners telling people they cannot live on less than 10,000 baht a month?

people, imagine how you would feel if some rich people in the states who spend 25,000+ dollars a month went on an open forum, and complain about all the riff raff in the world? their 300 dollar haircuts. the trips to paris. a cruise on their yacht.

hey. it's all relative. yes.

but that is the way you come off to many thais. ..to many people in the world.

maybe that is why guys like chavez hate our guts. to them, we are spoiled, irresponsible, and selfish.

and then, you wonder why there are so many people anti-american, anti-west?

[jeebusjones]

It's much better to be poor in your own country.

I think that very much depends on your home country. If mine (USA) it definitely would be better to be a 'poor' farang here rather than back home. Poor people back home generally have to live in crappy crime-infested neighborhoods. Poor people back home either have to have a car, probably a crappy one, or endure lousy public transport options (1 hour bus waits, exorbitant taxi fees, etc.). Poor people back home don't have health insurance and have to endure long waits in emergency rooms at public hospitals to get treatment. Poor people back home don't go to the beach unless their homeless shelter or campsite happens to be located near a beach, which outside of Santa Cruz and a few other locations is unlikely.

Now compare and contrast. A 'poor' farang can get a clean, basic apartment with aircon for less than $250 bucks in areas outside the main business districts here. They will live in a safe area and not worry about being murdered or mugged either inside or outside their dwelling. They have almost unlimited cheap transportation options here (train, boat, bus, taxi, motorcycle, skytrain, subway...). If they get sick they can walk into a hospital to get a consultation for less than 1000 Baht. BTW, Bumrungrad and Samitvej are not the only good hospitals here, far from it. And finally, even poor farangs here can afford to visit the beach or travel up country, where they can find very reasonable accomodations.

Anyone who thinks it is better to be poor back home than here has either never been poor, or just hasn't been paying any attention to how the other half lives back home.

Very well said, Qualtrough. The US is hardly a "nanny" society, as Bendix implied.

[wolfmanjack]

is it just me, or does it sound like we have a number of snobs on this string?

according to the bangkok post, 80% of the people living in thailand make between 4 to 6 thousand baht a month. these people put in 8 to 12 hours a day 6 days a week to make what they make.

and then, you get a few foreigners telling people they cannot live on less than 10,000 baht a month?

people, imagine how you would feel if some rich people in the states who spend 25,000+ dollars a month went on an open forum, and complain about all the riff raff in the world? their 300 dollar haircuts. the trips to paris. a cruise on their yacht.

hey. it's all relative. yes.

but that is the way you come off to many thais. ..to many people in the world.

maybe that is why guys like chavez hate our guts. to them, we are spoiled, irresponsible, and selfish.

and then, you wonder why there are so many people anti-american, anti-west?

I agree with everything except the presumption that we can live as cheapely as the thais. we have fees that we have to pay to the gov that the thais making 6-8k per month do not have to pay. also we can not get 30 baht health care. I have a family of 4 and i live on 35,000 per month. That includes 11,000 per month for car payment but we own our own home so it balances out.

[qualtrough]

I agree with everything except the presumption that we can live as cheapely as the thais. we have fees that we have to pay to the gov that the thais making 6-8k per month do not have to pay. also we can not get 30 baht health care. I have a family of 4 and i live on 35,000 per month. That includes 11,000 per month for car payment but we own our own home so it balances out.

I certainly agree that it is next to impossible for a farang to live as cheaply as a Thai for the reasons you point out. Farangs also don't have the extended family connections that can provide a boost, etc. & etc. My point is that dollar for dollar it would be far more preferable to be a 'poor' farang here rather than back home.

[keepwalking]

lots of responses to this and has taken on a life of its own. Thanks, will take a while to digest it all.

Can I add that I was originally meaning for a Thai person to live in Bangkok, not living the high life, not going out much but not living hand to mouth either.

Cheers.

[bendix]

Very well said, Qualtrough. The US is hardly a "nanny" society, as Bendix implied.

In fairness, that's why I qualified the US. However, compared to Thailand, the US is a Nanny state. When you add that to the fact that you would be poor and destitute in your own country, surrounded by your own people, which has to be better than being a farang beggar on the streets of Pattaya, i stand by my assertion.

Of course, I could be wrong. I have that charming habit.

[jeebusjones]

Very well said, Qualtrough. The US is hardly a "nanny" society, as Bendix implied.

In fairness, that's why I qualified the US. However, compared to Thailand, the US is a Nanny state. When you add that to the fact that you would be poor and destitute in your own country, surrounded by your own people, which has to be better than being a farang beggar on the streets of Pattaya, i stand by my assertion.

Of course, I could be wrong. I have that charming habit.

You did qualify it, but I would still disagree with you.

But I think there is an important distinction to be made here about exactly what kind of "poverty" we're discussing. Let's define two types:

1 - A person has some money, but only enough to have a cheap apartment, simple food and no luxuries

2 - A person has NO money, and lives on the street begging

I thought we were talking about the first. In my opinion, for "Class 1" poverty it would be much better to be in Thailand, for many of the reasons Qualtrough mentioned. A person in the US with some income is eligible for virtually no government aid, whether it's medical care, food etc...

However, under "Class 2" poverty, than certainly it would be better to be in the US, as there would be homeless shelters and soup kitchens etc...

Although some farang beggars do pretty well here. Remember the youtube video of the Dutch (?) beggar earning 30k a month?

[swain]

Very well said, Qualtrough. The US is hardly a "nanny" society, as Bendix implied.

In fairness, that's why I qualified the US. However, compared to Thailand, the US is a Nanny state. When you add that to the fact that you would be poor and destitute in your own country, surrounded by your own people, which has to be better than being a farang beggar on the streets of Pattaya, i stand by my assertion.

Of course, I could be wrong. I have that charming habit.

Some of my best friends are poor... they are not begging in the streets and live quietly with out taking the good name of the "farang" ( ) and dragging it through the mud. I have two friends that live off their social security checks.. and were doing ok until the baht rose in value. 42k now down to 34k but even then figured it out and though they are hoping that the dollar pulls a rabbit out its hat.. they are not counting on it. Not sure what would happen if it went to 25k but thats another post.

[Furbie]

In my mind, there is no such thing as being in poverty and living in an apartment (unless its in an abandoned building). You can be poor and live in an apartment, but you are certainly not in poverty. I realize this is not the true definition, but too many "poor" in the Western world just don't know what poor really is.

On poorer Westerners moving to Thailand, I think it is important to remember that even an English teacher making 28,000 Baht per month is actually generating more wealth for the economy than 4-5 average Thai people (this is not an argument about rights and who was born here, is Thai, etc., I am making a purely economic argument). A retiree on 50,000 Baht per month is nearly double that: 8-12 average Thai's economic power. So, all these "weird retirees" in the bush are actually contributing mightily to the Thai economy, and actually do not absorb the same amount of State resources (such as 30 baht medical care) that a 4-6,000 Baht a month Thai does. Add to it the fact that in more developed areas (Korat, Surin, Udon) businesses open to cater to their Western needs, further creating jobs and economic opportunities. Once you start adding up the numbers, you can see how important these "poor" Westerners are to Thailand's economy - even the 28k English teachers.

However, to live in BKK, as I said before, 60k minimum for a "decent" life is where I would put the line.

[dumspero]

Bendix- Where I respectfully think you are wrong is when you put down the poorer farangs as being bad for the farangs' reputation. I agree with other posters.

And to add to it, the farangs who give us a bad reputation are those with an attitude toward Thais and Thailand, and that has nothing to do with the amount of money they make.

I make a great example of the bad type: coming over on holiday for nearly two decades, getting drunk and throwing money around. And then later in the evening I translate from English into Thai by just repeating whatever in English very loudly!

[dumspero]

Oh, and I forgot another favorite. Saying that you just don't understand "all these Chinese." Thais seem to love that. (Kaw tod na krab, poot len tao nan khrab. And sorry I don't know how to write Thai in English, or have one of those ###### fancy Thai script thingies on my computer, too, like the guys I'm jealous of...)

With that said, I do believe that many of us who are lucky enough to make a handsome living elsewhere as expats will have a hard time ratcheting too far down once we get to Thailand permanently, both becuse of our current lifestyles and the fact that we've always been in Thailand for relatively short periods of time on a spending binger.

[uptou]

Frankly, I can't understand why anyone would come to live here if they're worrying about budget. If you're asking how much is enough to live, you probably don't have enough.

Thailand generally and Bangkok in particularly is NOT the place for a foreigner to merely exist or eke out a living. There are enough 'walking dead' farang wandering aimlessly, making their 500 baht a day allowance stretch, already thank you very much.

It's much better to be poor in your own country.

not sure i understand.surely some people dont need to drink in expensive restaurants,or live in a flash apartment to be content.ive never seen monks with air con or satalite tv.

you could also say the opposite,that farang watching how much he spends is not spending it on bar girls,& not giving farung a bad name with the thais.

so if you spend over 500 baht a day,would you be out of the "walking dead" section?

[wolfmanjack]

I agree with everything except the presumption that we can live as cheapely as the thais. we have fees that we have to pay to the gov that the thais making 6-8k per month do not have to pay. also we can not get 30 baht health care. I have a family of 4 and i live on 35,000 per month. That includes 11,000 per month for car payment but we own our own home so it balances out.

I certainly agree that it is next to impossible for a farang to live as cheaply as a Thai for the reasons you point out. Farangs also don't have the extended family connections that can provide a boost, etc. & etc. My point is that dollar for dollar it would be far more preferable to be a 'poor' farang here rather than back home.

I already said I agree. see post # 36. Most things are less expensive here in Chiang Mai than even the cheapest places in the USA. Even those that are on the border of what is considered poverty level in the USA can have a relatively nice living here compared to the USA. The 2006 USA poverty line for a family of 2 is $13,200 per year. At 34 to the $ that means 37,400 baht per month. My family has been living on 61% of the USA poverty level for a family of 4. At 40 to the $ we have been living on half of the poverty level. Granted i can not send my kids to the so called international schools here in Chiang Mai but i don't think they need that yet.

[farang prince]

It always helps if your partner still has the first satang she ever made. Mine has cobwebs on her purse. Love her to death.

[dumspero]

farang prince- Christ, does your wife give classes to other women on being thrifty?

[Firefan]

We had lots of threads on this (foreigners) and nos. have ranged from about Baht 20k/mth - 200k/mth in spending, with the single person/studio type being in the lower end (say 20-50k).

People that make their first budget seems to forget all costs but food and rent. And they estimate food buy Thai food costs only. That works fine in the sun-shiney beginning, but trust me, that craving for your homelands (what ever country that may be) food WILL come and blow that 3000 Baht/mth food budget out of the water.

Bigger costs often forgotten are health insurance (10-60k/year for younger single depending on cover), visa run/visa costs (6k-40k/year depending on situation), travel and hotel(trips to beach here or yearly trips to home country), electricity(if aircon groupie easily 2k/mth), UBC (2k/mth), Internet/tel: 400/mth and up - not to mention transportation costs (even with public transport/taxis easily 100 Baht/day = 3k/mth).

Other stuff forgotten; clothes, shoes, sports gear, gym or other memberships, magazine or newspaper subscriptions, gadgets, new mobile(they seem to die in this humidity after 1-2 years), computer purchases and addons/repairs, skype fill-ups, music, dvds, vitamins/ non-prescription medicines, sunglasses(and lotion), tolietries, bedsheets, towels..... You get the point....

Above does not even mention owning a car or other transport(service, insurance, spares, gasoline Etc.).

Cheers!

[Bjorn]

I actually did a cost follow up during 3 months. I noted down absolutely every baht spent by myself and my thai wife. On average (monthly), we spent 38,000 baht. We got a car and 2 motorcycles. We lived a normal life, sometimes western food. Most of the time we ate outside in restaurangs. This includes everything, but not rental costs (we have a house already, fully paid).

Should be noted that we live in NorthEast where it is a lot cheaper than the rest of thailand. Before moving to NE. I lived 5 years in Bangkok. The cost of living in Bangkok compared to NE is about 50% higher.

[The Professor]

I know my Singapore Dollars $300 can stretch for a month, living in what we call a kampung, rustic village place.

And I still had aircon if I wanted it. Which I dont want. So I sleep with a mosquito netting over me and a fan blowing at me.

Bathing from a big pail of water, with a water heater nearby dripping the hot water to mix with the cold and providing just the right temperature relief from the heat, and not so chilling that I could develop a cold.

Eating the local EAT ALL YOU CAN SEAFOOD BBQ STEAMBOAT BUFFET for 100 baht. Thats about Singapore Dollars $4/- and USD$3.

And shopping at the local nite market/flea market/open air bazaar as you call it. Any pairs of classy expensive looking high heels for 99 Baht.....which is still USD3/-

Yup, I enjoyed life there in Phuket Kon Sire Village.

And ermmm....tourist rentals is possible too. At 3300baht per month for a run down air con apartment if you know where to look.

And you rent a Honda Wave small motorcycles to commute everywhere. To buy one, its USD1000/- brand new. Life cant be sweeter then that.

omg, lol, looks and sounds like heaven. btw, I dont know anyone who thinks in terms of sing dollars. feel free to use baht

[The Dude]

We had lots of threads on this (foreigners) and nos. have ranged from about Baht 20k/mth - 200k/mth in spending, with the single person/studio type being in the lower end (say 20-50k).

People that make their first budget seems to forget all costs but food and rent. And they estimate food buy Thai food costs only. That works fine in the sun-shiney beginning, but trust me, that craving for your homelands (what ever country that may be) food WILL come and blow that 3000 Baht/mth food budget out of the water.

Bigger costs often forgotten are health insurance (10-60k/year for younger single depending on cover), visa run/visa costs (6k-40k/year depending on situation), travel and hotel(trips to beach here or yearly trips to home country), electricity(if aircon groupie easily 2k/mth), UBC (2k/mth), Internet/tel: 400/mth and up - not to mention transportation costs (even with public transport/taxis easily 100 Baht/day = 3k/mth).

Other stuff forgotten; clothes, shoes, sports gear, gym or other memberships, magazine or newspaper subscriptions, gadgets, new mobile(they seem to die in this humidity after 1-2 years), computer purchases and addons/repairs, skype fill-ups, music, dvds, vitamins/ non-prescription medicines, sunglasses(and lotion), tolietries, bedsheets, towels..... You get the point....

Above does not even mention owning a car or other transport(service, insurance, spares, gasoline Etc.).

Cheers!

The Dude can dig with a shovel what firefan is saying. So many dudes don't take so many other expenses into account when they rattle of outrageously low figures for living expenses. The Dude lives in Bangkok and burns 100K per month minimum with ease; and he does not do nightlife or have a car. This is for a basic existence with a nice Apt (not studio room) that takes into account all expenses and factors. Been burning this amount monthly easy for 5 years of BKK living. No eating out, no transport costs, no nightlife costs, just 2 persons: The Dude and The Dude's hot gf. that's all The Dude wrote, dudes. Can you dig it?

[lannarebirth]

If one can afford the monetary thresholds imposed by the visa regulations for living here long stay. they can afford to live well here. Your money just goes much further here. If you must live with western luxuries, products, food, then you will pay more than you did in the west.

[farang prince]

When we are in Bangkok, my partner and I live comfortably on about 75,000 baht a month. But we also live six months out of the year in Santa Fe, New Mexico, in the USA, and our expenses there are more than 150,000 baht (a little less than $5,000 USD). Pretty much the same lifestyle (3-4 dinners out a week, a movie or concert once a week, satellite tv, high speed computer access, occasional weekend trip to a nearby location). No wonder more farangs are moving to Thailand.

[uptou]

A single person renting an apartment, paying the bills, buying food for one month in a suburb of Bangkok - nothing fancy, just one room - how much would you say the cost of living is a month?

Thanks.

seing as the op seems to be looking at it as costs from a thai veiw,maybe lowest possible figures is helpful.(without having to live in a mud hut)

monthly room rent,3000 baht (room with small attached bathroom,& possibly a balcony for cooking),maybe if you pay for a 3 month period up front,2000 baht per month,but you aint going to get that in areas like silom etc.i was living in an a large apartment up north for 2200 baht total.

daily expenses;

noodles,bowl of or fried at a street stall,20 baht

fruit from a street seller 10 baht a portion.

bus ride inside central bangkok,generally up to 7 baht for non air con,up to 19 baht for ac.

cinema,100-130 baht

large singha beer,50-90 baht depending on the decor.

food dishes at a place frequented by the average income thai 35-50 baht.

dvd rental 60 baht for 5 movies/1 week at showtime.

i have to finish there as i have an urgent buisiness meeting to attend.

[viciouskitty74]

omg, lol, looks and sounds like heaven. btw, I dont know anyone who thinks in terms of sing dollars. feel free to use baht

S$300/- x 20 baht = 6000 baht. The exchange rate may be more, but I figure to calculate conservatively. Best rate I got was S$1 to 23 baht in Phuket.

[blizzard]

the dude is full of it. the dude dont do anything yet goes thru what he goes thru.

the dude girl must not be so hot........methinks..............lol.

THE DUDE MUST SPEND ALL DAY SMOKING WEED. KHAO JAI MAI............LOL.

SAME SAME FOR new nex and his partner. if you live basic in new mexico , no way you need 5,000 american dolla. new mex just like bkk wo the nightlife........lol.