Different funeral ceremonies

[cooked]

I guess this isn't necessarily exclusively about Buddhist customs, but out of curiosity I should like to get a few things sorted.

A suicide.

An abortion. (?Soul not present so no cremation necessary?)

An unexpected death.

A 'normal' death, all of which I have attended at one time or another.

As far as I understand it, these all have different funeral ceremonies, can someone (briefly?) explain the reasons for different ceremonies and what is the difference in performing them?

I'm not morbidly obsessed by the subject but I don't like sitting there like an idiot not understanding what's going on.

[khaowong1]

On 11/4/2020 at 7:42 PM, cooked said:

I guess this isn't necessarily exclusively about Buddhist customs, but out of curiosity I should like to get a few things sorted.

A suicide.

An abortion. (?Soul not present so no cremation necessary?)

An unexpected death.

A 'normal' death, all of which I have attended at one time or another.

As far as I understand it, these all have different funeral ceremonies, can someone (briefly?) explain the reasons for different ceremonies and what is the difference in performing them?

I'm not morbidly obsessed by the subject but I don't like sitting there like an idiot not understanding what's going on.

Just a quick breakdown without going into specifics, depending on the death, certain chants and ceremonies are used.  Chants for forgiveness, chants for a happy rebirth, etc.  Some ceremonies are a sort of happy affair, some are very somber.  Depends on the death. 

[sandyf]

In the time i have been here I have been to more funerals than I care to remember, must be upwards of 50 and have seen more formats than the way one can die. There may be some variations within the service as posted but never been aware.

The number of days can vary, the venue can vary, they can conclude with cremation or interment. My father in law's was held at home and he was interred, his wife had been dead about 10 years and they removed the body. put it in a new coffin and she was interred again in the new family tomb.

About 2 weeks ago I went to one in the Naval Crematorium and that was very formal, also few years ago did one at sea at the navy base. Been to 2 that involved the King's Flame, they also tend to be a bit formal. Seen numbers from around a dozen up to the hundreds, the most easy going ones I found were at the home of the deceased. 

A real mixture of scenarios exist so best bet is to just ask someone at the funeral.

 

[khunPer]

On 11/5/2020 at 3:42 AM, cooked said:

A suicide.

...

An unexpected death.

Depending of local beliefs there might be some rituals to perform for the soul(s) – to my information, there are seven different souls – for example after a traffic accident a soul might not have followed the body, and need to be "catched" and brought back to the body.

 

I've experienced such a sad ceremony after a traffic accident...

 

The monk, with a big knife, is getting the lost soul to enter a bowl filled with yellow flower heads...

 

 

Thereafter I drove the monk to the temple, where the body was resting. The monk, sitte next to me on ta front seat, talked or chanted all the way, I was told he asked the spirits, or ghosts, on the way for permission to pass with the soul he was carrying in the flower-bowl.

 

At the temple the flowers, now carrying the soul, was placed on the dead body's head inside the coffin. The following ritual with the knife, nobody could explain for me...

 

This was a very important, individual part of the three days ceremonies before the cremation of the body.

[Lacessit]

What do I care? I won't know anything about it.

[SW Happy]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

What do I care? I won't know anything about it.

How do you know that ??

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, SW Happy said:

How do you know that ??

Because I've been to the other side, and there is nothing there.

[khaowong1]

In my experience as a monk at a temple.  I saw that a family would come to a certain temple and request the Abbot to have the service done.  Depending on how the individual died, the Abbot pretty much decided how the ceremony would go.  Keep in mind, these ceremonies are not free.  I've seen some Abbots go whole hog on a certain ceremony and others were quick and boom, over in 2 to 3 days.  Most all of them lasted 3 days, why, not sure unless because it was 3 days of money in envelopes.  

[khaowong1]

4 hours ago, khunPer said:

Depending of local beliefs there might be some rituals to perform for the soul(s) – to my information, there are seven different souls – for example after a traffic accident a soul might not have followed the body, and need to be "catched" and brought back to the body.

 

I've experienced such a sad ceremony after a traffic accident...

 

The monk, with a big knife, is getting the lost soul to enter a bowl filled with yellow flower heads...

 

 

Thereafter I drove the monk to the temple, where the body was resting. The monk, sitte next to me on ta front seat, talked or chanted all the way, I was told he asked the spirits, or ghosts, on the way for permission to pass with the soul he was carrying in the flower-bowl.

 

At the temple the flowers, now carrying the soul, was placed on the dead body's head inside the coffin. The following ritual with the knife, nobody could explain for me...

 

This was a very important, individual part of the three days ceremonies before the cremation of the body.

Supposedly, he's cutting the cord for the attachment to this world and allowing the soul to go on to his/her next incarnation.  

[teacherclaire]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Because I've been to the other side, and there is nothing there.

 

 I was there too, and I remember all. The doctors had already given up with electroshocks, but another doctor luckily started his shift.

 

 Three more highest voltage shocks made my body jump high up into the air; two family members had to witness it, sadly one was a five-year-old boy, and they were told that my body would be brought to CM.

 

 Then my heart started beating, and I woke up but didn't want to. It was weird to see my mom, who'd passed away a couple of years before telling me that I couldn't come now.

 

My heart stood still for a while, and I can be happy that this doctor didn't give up on me.

I think such a near-death experience is something you'll never forget. 
And I'm not afraid of dying and see things from a different perspective now..... 

 

But to get back on topic, it seems that all monks have their own view on what to do to make a real show before the cremation of a dead body.

 

That doesn't man that they know what they are exactly doing. I've seen too many monks at such events who just invented some hard to understand rituals, perhaps to satisfy the paying folks.

 

Not even death is free. So wealthier the deceased person was, so longer will the "party" be. And these monks know that they receive more cash and presents when they do some extraordinary practices that seem to be from a Hollywood movie. 

 

  

 

 

 

     

 

  

[thaipara]

I am afraid this is a bit tangential, but I have a Thai friend who returned from Europe about three weeks ago and was found to be covid-positive upon arrival. She was discharged from a 15-day stay in a hospital to return to her family's home in Udon. There she continues to suffer various  serious symptoms and is self-quarantined, being checked in on by a doctor every day.

 

Her biggest fear now, she says, is that when (as she puts it) she dies, no one will come to attend her funeral ceremonies. The thought is making her feel quite depressed.

[hotchilli]

On 11/5/2020 at 9:42 AM, cooked said:

I'm not morbidly obsessed by the subject but I don't like sitting there like an idiot not understanding what's going on.

Sometimes it depends on the type of death, natural or otherwise, mostly it's about what the family want to pay...

basically more bang for more baht.

[cooked]

I'm afraid your answer has nothing to do with my question. Obviously you can extend and glamourise any ceremony but I am talking about the fact that the ceremony for an aborted fetus for example is VERY different from that for an old person that dies of natural causes. 

[jomtienisgood]

On 11/6/2020 at 10:51 PM, khaowong1 said:

Just a quick breakdown without going into specifics, depending on the death, certain chants and ceremonies are used.  Chants for forgiveness, chants for a happy rebirth, etc.  Some ceremonies are a sort of happy affair, some are very somber.  Depends on the death. 

Did you find this on Google????? 

[khunPer]

13 hours ago, khaowong1 said:

Supposedly, he's cutting the cord for the attachment to this world and allowing the soul to go on to his/her next incarnation.  

Many thanks for the explanation, which makes sense, both at the location for the fatal accident – it was a minor child that was killed – and later in the temple with mother, and cutting "the cord for the attachment" to her.

[khaowong1]

22 hours ago, teacherclaire said:

 

 I was there too, and I remember all. The doctors had already given up with electroshocks, but another doctor luckily started his shift.

 

 Three more highest voltage shocks made my body jump high up into the air; two family members had to witness it, sadly one was a five-year-old boy, and they were told that my body would be brought to CM.

 

 Then my heart started beating, and I woke up but didn't want to. It was weird to see my mom, who'd passed away a couple of years before telling me that I couldn't come now.

 

My heart stood still for a while, and I can be happy that this doctor didn't give up on me.

I think such a near-death experience is something you'll never forget. 
And I'm not afraid of dying and see things from a different perspective now..... 

 

But to get back on topic, it seems that all monks have their own view on what to do to make a real show before the cremation of a dead body.

 

That doesn't man that they know what they are exactly doing. I've seen too many monks at such events who just invented some hard to understand rituals, perhaps to satisfy the paying folks.

 

Not even death is free. So wealthier the deceased person was, so longer will the "party" be. And these monks know that they receive more cash and presents when they do some extraordinary practices that seem to be from a Hollywood movie. 

 

  

 

 

 

     

 

  

Yep.  The more cash, the bigger and more elaborate the ceremony.  

[khaowong1]

10 hours ago, jomtienisgood said:

Did you find this on Google????? 

No, I was a monk for 7 years in Lopburi Province.  Haven't seen it all, but have seen a bunch including a lot of funerals.  

[teacherclaire]

17 minutes ago, khaowong1 said:

Yep.  The more cash, the bigger and more elaborate the ceremony.  

One wealthier uncle passed away and after one year, they threw a party in the middle of the temple with almost naked girls, "Morlam dancers". 

 

Well, half naked. No monks were visible they must have watched the girls from their huts.....They wore the tiniest bikinis I've ever seen. And you could see everything.

 

 The ashes were of course very happy about these sexy gurls. And the monks, well they must have had their handy fun. 

 

And these Morlam dancers were very young. A typical Buddhist ceremony? 

 

And that wasn't the first of its kind.  

 

 

 

    

Edited November 9, 2020 by teacherclaire

[khaowong1]

On 11/9/2020 at 8:02 AM, teacherclaire said:

One wealthier uncle passed away and after one year, they threw a party in the middle of the temple with almost naked girls, "Morlam dancers". 

 

Well, half naked. No monks were visible they must have watched the girls from their huts.....They wore the tiniest bikinis I've ever seen. And you could see everything.

 

 The ashes were of course very happy about these sexy gurls. And the monks, well they must have had their handy fun. 

 

And these Morlam dancers were very young. A typical Buddhist ceremony? 

 

And that wasn't the first of its kind.  

 

 

 

    

I've seen dancers at temple gatherings, but not at funerals.  But not surprised.  Like I said, money can buy anything.  

[jomtienisgood]

On 11/9/2020 at 9:45 PM, khaowong1 said:

Yep.  The more cash, the bigger and more elaborate the ceremony.  

Isn't that the same everywhere ????

[jomtienisgood]

On 11/9/2020 at 10:02 PM, teacherclaire said:

One wealthier uncle passed away and after one year, they threw a party in the middle of the temple with almost naked girls, "Morlam dancers". 

 

Well, half naked. No monks were visible they must have watched the girls from their huts.....They wore the tiniest bikinis I've ever seen. And you could see everything.

 

 The ashes were of course very happy about these sexy gurls. And the monks, well they must have had their handy fun. 

 

And these Morlam dancers were very young. A typical Buddhist ceremony? 

 

And that wasn't the first of its kind.  

 

 

 

    

So?????

[jomtienisgood]

On 11/9/2020 at 9:49 PM, khaowong1 said:

No, I was a monk for 7 years in Lopburi Province.  Haven't seen it all, but have seen a bunch including a lot of funerals.  

You surely saw a lot of monkeys....

[teacherclaire]

4 hours ago, jomtienisgood said:

So?????

 So? Most were so drunk that they couldn't stand straight, then they wanted to touch the girls. A few were on Jaba and of course do these people then also sell a few pills.

 

The girls wore almost nothing and a few other things that shouldn't happen inside a temple. And I'm an atheist. 

 

  And that all happened in the middle of a Thai Buddhist Temple. 

 

     And you ask so? 

 

 

 

[teacherclaire]

On 11/10/2020 at 10:34 PM, khaowong1 said:

I've seen dancers at temple gatherings, but not at funerals.  But not surprised.  Like I said, money can buy anything.  

Not at the direct funeral. That's ( the Morlam sing and dance) is exactly one year after the guy's death.

 

    They move the bones and do some other magical wonders.  

 

Sex and Drugs And Morlam Roll. 

 

    

[khaowong1]

5 hours ago, jomtienisgood said:

You surely saw a lot of monkeys....

And the Monkey temple.  LOL. 

[khaowong1]

1 hour ago, teacherclaire said:

Not at the direct funeral. That's ( the Morlam sing and dance) is exactly one year after the guy's death.

 

    They move the bones and do some other magical wonders.  

 

Sex and Drugs And Morlam Roll. 

 

    

The family must have been throwing some serious money around for the Abbot to let them dance inside the temple.  

[jomtienisgood]

On 11/12/2020 at 8:43 PM, teacherclaire said:

Not at the direct funeral. That's ( the Morlam sing and dance) is exactly one year after the guy's death.

 

    They move the bones and do some other magical wonders.  

 

Sex and Drugs And Morlam Roll. 

 

    

555555555, again so??? Why get so upset?? I'm atheist aswel, but to me : I also adhere to the point of view live and let live.  If you don't like don't look.....

[jomtienisgood]

On 11/12/2020 at 10:24 PM, khaowong1 said:

And the Monkey temple.  LOL. 

Obviously. 555555

[VocalNeal]

On 11/8/2020 at 7:32 PM, Lacessit said:

Because I've been to the other side, and there is nothing there.

 

La petite mort?

[cooked]

On 11/14/2020 at 1:52 PM, jomtienisgood said:

555555555, again so??? Why get so upset?? I'm atheist aswel, but to me : I also adhere to the point of view live and let live.  If you don't like don't look.....

.. or die and let die?