Building A House? Chiangmai

[stevehaigh]

I just bought 5 rai of land in Pai, 100km north of Chiang Mai, (ok, I paid for it, my girlfriend owns it!) and will start building in 2 months.

I'm interested to find people with building stories to share to perhaps help me and others in the process.

Maybe this subject deserves its own forum?

I am also thinking about documenting the building process which will eventually become a book “Thai for builders”.

Land owners/home builders, let me know your thoughts?

Thanks Steve

[ajahnlau]

Make a plan! There are 2 ways of doing your const. Get a general contractor and he will give you a price for everything incl. materials and labour or just for the labour and you buy the materials. If he is buying materials make sure to let him know what grade you want especialy for water fixtures,elec.,and flooring. Best bet is get a price for labour and you pick what you want for materials. When deciding on contractor have alook at other houses he has done.

[Up2U]

And be careful that, when the house is half-complete, there are no 'problems' that require another 200,000 to sort out.

Make sure your electrics are properly earthed.

Make sure your site is not at the bottom of a shallow depression - even a few centimetres of water in the rainy season can ruin your furniture.

Keep out of the way a lot of the time, let your Thai partner represent you. Even if it seems that she is getting ripped off, it is only a fraction of what you would pay.

[penzman]

Electrical, check everything, properly earthed, wiring gauge, etc.

Plumbing...P Traps!!! They are not so common here...

For example, roaches sometimes come in through the squatter in the washroom at our temporary appartment, the water level drops and they crawl in upside down...

Also gases from the septic tank may come in from the drains...

[dutch]

look at the Isaan local forum .There is an interesting thread about building costs.

Also look at the photoalbum(i believe page 9 or 10) about a house in Surin.Many pics

[KevinN]

Most will do a half-assed job,and no real craftsmanship will be evident.

Almost no Thai understands plumbing and electrical instillation. make sure that the pipe and wire runs are incorporated in the building and not all an addon later.

The EGAT has a poster at most offices for the instillation of 3 wire grounded circuits,but the contractor will pobly know nothing of this.

There will be cost overruns and a lot of things will be thought of at the last moment,And they will try to drive you crazy,but you will eventually end up with something.

They will tell you that the regular floor flanges are not available in Thailand and that they are not needed as that is the wrong way to install a toilet,the Thai way is to cement it to the floor, but American standard sells a toilet set with the flange and beeswax seal included,but the Thai throw them away,as they do not know how to install them.altho the instructions are in the box.and they will try to tell you that the 2 holes in the base of the toilet are a mistake in the mfg. of the toilet.

Good luck.

[Kringle]

Get the builder to show you some jobs he has done before. I haven't seen a house yet that is square (doors, windows and even floors or walls. My place is just over a year old and has cracks in the walls all over the place. Just put in cabinets and had to modify because the floor wasn't level and the walls not square. Had a guy to do some electrical and didn't think a ground was necessary. Says: " Ground?, Oh two wire common."

If you know anything about building, be there when they build and I do mean from ground up. Even the plumbing in my place is not right, flush the upstairs toilet and the bottom one gurgles. If you are going to put in a holding tank, make sure they run the plumbing so that you don't have to set the unsightly thing in the front of your house. Had to get some guys to get my supply line run to the back after the house was finished. You have to tell them everything or else they just put up a house and that's it. Watch them,watch them,watch them, you cannot be too careful.

My next house will be a lot better!

Oh yes, unless your "partner" is a builder, do not let her have any kind of control on things. The builder can tell her "anything" and she will believe it.

[ProThaiExpat]

I built my house 8km north of Chiang Mai and am happy to share what I learned. If you want "horor stories", I have many, but PM me for those.

Having remodeled many homes, some on spec, from the foundation up, I am fairly sophisticated in the building trades.

Thus, I felt the safest way for me to proceed was to find a develpment where a number of houses had already been built by the developer and a "building standard" would be available from which to start as a "bench mark" for price and quality.

It helped to have English speaking developers. I gave them a basic floor plan as a starting point and they obtained an architect or sophisticated plan drawer who made revisions until we had a set of building plans that I liked.

I required of them to produce all four exterior elevations. I paid particular attention to ceiling height, foundations and footings on the plans.

I then typed out many pages of "specifications" in English in which I detailed what I wanted in every conceivable area I could think of, including penalty for late completion of their time schedule.

I agreed to pay for any "extras" over and above their "standard" cookie cutter house in the development.

I paid particular attention to selection of the lot and the house orientation for view and privacy.

The signed contract price was determined by the sq. wah of the land, their standard published price, and my calculation of their advertised standard house price per sq. meter.

They loved to point out many of my requirements were "extras", which I said no problem. I alwasy had their standard house to determine what I was entitled to for the "standard" price. I also, during the building process, had them advise me of their cost of many of the fixtures they provided as "standard" so I could get "credit" if I provided them.

What I didn't know was they sub-contracted out the bricks and mortar work to independent "crew bosses", who varied in their ability and quality of construction and I ended up with a bad one.

Example, specs translated into Thai never given to on site boss by "crew boss", on site boss always working with out of date plan, etc.

I was on site twice a day and still many mistakes were made. They were happy to correct them, but the construction crew boss lost money and had to be re-inbursed by the developer to keep him going because of the "mistakes". He eventually abandoned the project, but the developer had his own "finish" crew to complete the project.

I bought all fixtures and provided them for installation as the time came. However, bad initial plumber and bad initial tile layer were responsible for mistakes I am still correcting.

When my custom home was complete, and it is unique, the finish detail I would rate as average or below average by Thai standards, but the design was executed from the plan so the house really works for me. I am working to improve the finish detail to an acceptable level for me but the house is "just right for me" and my "eye for detail" fades with time. They actually built the house larger by a half meter on one side, thus I eneed up with 20 square meters more than I paid for.

If you are building a Thai house, you should have littel trouble, design wise. Western style house takes a lot of effort to teach the workers and the builder what that style is.

Example, Thais like floor height changes between rooms, ie. kitchen and bathrooms, laundry and the like. If you want your floors all the same level, keep and eye out. etc.

The developer came up with 250k in extras, such as extra large sliding glass doors, three phase electrical, etc. However, since my house was 1.89% larger than the standard, by muliplying his costs for "electrical points" etc. times1.89% we ended up at a wash. Evidently the costs of extra high ceilings and long ceiling beams were likewise absorbed by the calculations. They put a lot of windows and a lot of small rooms in Thai houses so multiplying those costs out covered my extras. I have two bedrooms, 1.89% of their standard involves doors for 5 and a half bedrooms, electrical likewise. Thus my laundry room closet doors ( an extra) were covered.

I obtained the kitchen cabinets and the sliding mirror bedroom closet doors from outside contractors, the only high quality items seen in my house. The cotto fixtures are excellent however.

With Home Pro now open in Chiang Mai now, if you want a western style house, you will be doing a lot of shopping there. They are a little expensive, but guarantee their products and do have guaranteed installers.

PM for more detailed suggestions regarding coordinating the installation of western style toilets with your rough plumbing layout, etc., only one area of danger that will haunt you.

Keep in mind that Thai builders do not operate with any "standard" to go by in building a western house, so they don't know how far from the finished wall, (and what is that thickness), to place a toilet drain. Thai toilets are cemented into place, while western toilets use wax rings and bolts to mount the toilet. Which to go by?

I have one of each.

Good luck, you are approaching the process far better informed than I was.

[chokrai]

"Watch them all the time" Good advice. We hired some guys in my wifes village to put up a post and barb wire fence around some land my wife owns. At the end of the day we went to have a look, one third of the poles had NO cement in the hole! I guess they though the farang was a complete idiot,,my wife was NOT happy.How they thought that we would not notice i dont know you only had to push the poles a little and they leaned over! Amazing!

[ProThaiExpat]

Chokrai: I have only seen pictures of my Thai's fence job in Issan, but the hired hands used different size cement poles, different height poles, and who knows regarding the concrete, if any. TIT, even for Thais.

[chokrai]

Off thread but anyway-found a really nice BIG piece of driftwood stump in a creek where we take the dogs for a walk in Maerim.Paid some Thai guys around there to bring it to my house to put in my garden.This is a very nice piece of wood carved by water and big ,needed a crane to get it off the truck! When it gets here there is 2 or 3 gouges on top where some idiot chopped it with his machete to see what kind of wood it was! What can you say?

[john b good]

Most will do a half-assed job,and no real craftsmanship will be evident.

Almost no Thai understands plumbing and electrical instillation. make sure that the pipe and wire runs are incorporated in the building and not all an addon later.

The EGAT has a poster at most offices for the instillation of 3 wire grounded circuits,but the contractor will pobly know nothing of this.

There will be cost overruns and a lot of things will be thought of at the last moment,And they will try to drive you crazy,but you will eventually end up with something.

They will tell you that the regular floor flanges are not available in Thailand and that they are not needed as that is the wrong way to install a toilet,the Thai way is to cement it to the floor, but American standard sells a toilet set with the flange and beeswax seal included,but the Thai throw them away,as they do not know how to install them.altho the instructions are in the box.and they will try to tell you that the 2 holes in the base of the toilet are a mistake in the mfg. of the toilet.

Good luck.

Steve,

Good luck as you're gonna need a little.

Anything/everytime, that I have had something to do with a Thai tradesman ( and that is a joke in itself) has been something of a nightmare.

I appreciate that from looking at some of the better class hotels etc., that you can get good work carried out here, but in the main Thai tradesmen are one step removed from the primates.

They know close to zilch about plumbing and electrical installation. Often the plumber/electrician are the same person and I have yet to find someone who has served an apprenticeship/sat an exam/or is registered as the vast majority (read for electricians and plumbers) have to be in "developed" countries.

I agree that you have the GF do the regular inspections but you need to ensure that you let her know what to look for. Have her take the digital camera along and take some close ups which you can review at your leisure.

If you are not happy about something don't let it go for too long, as you will find it impossibe to correct/redress at a later date.

KevinN,

You hit the nail square on the head in writing "most will do a half-assed job,and no real craftsmanship will be evident"

Again "good luck"

[penzman]

Our small 2 bedroom house (with crooked doorframes and shaved doors) should have been ready and transfered to us by last March 14th 2004. The contractor started building in January 2003.

So, we're are stuck in this appartment we are still renting and the owner has it for sale.

Is there a law or some standard penalty for late completion of their time schedule?

Gf asked at the project office, the person looked at us with a strange look on her face and said "No".

[Tornado]

There are many pitfalls in building in Thailand, be very diligent!

You can actually mould your Thai builder into being a great builder, lots of patience, smiles, pats on the back and give him a bonus (whisky, food or money) every month. This will keep him working for you, he will feel appreciated and do a better job.

To start with: A cheaper alternative is to get your Orbator's office to design your house plan (after you have designed it and given it to them) as the Orabtor will also give you the relevant planning permissions/ building permissions and will help you a lot more. You will save money this way as you will pay one fee for the whole job.

When you have selected your builder, make sure you have a contract with payment terms. I usually pay 30% on start up, 30% when roof is on and the balance on turn key. This way you cannot be cheated, unless of course he runs away with the initial 30% .

I would also suggest that you go through with your builder, the type of sanitary ware you are after. I personally would get a "shell' price, meaning that you want a build price without sanitary ware or floor tiles as there are so many types, quality and prices. Buy the tiles and sanitary ware yourself and then give them to him for installation.

Electric - make sure your power points are not halfway up the wall (do this while designing your plan and when you speak to your builder) and make sure your wiring is inside the wall (make a special request for this as this is not the norm in remote area builders minds). Also make sure there is "enough" power points and they are placed where your electrical items will be!

timber - in the planning stage, ask your builder to be precise in the timber that is used. here are some examples: mai jumphur - hardish timber that cracks (not just due to be being unseasoned), mai keng - hard wood that I prefer on a "mid range" build, mai sak - teak wood, expensive but beautiful grain and lasts a long time/for ever. There are a lot more different types, just make sure that you choose the "right timber" and also make sure that there is some type of termite protection.

If you are having timber "eves" (timber under the verandah/ all around your house), make sure the builder places the timber length ways (from your wall out to the gutter (if you have any?), do not place timbers running parallel to your house under your eves as they will warp and bend. Keep your timber in shorter lengths to minimize this.

Floor tiles – in my experience tilers will start where ever they are standing at the time, make sure they start at your front door or an area that will always be more visible than others. You want full tiles, not half tiles visible in the main areas.

Paint – The reason a lot of houses look like crap is because of the paint. Thai paint will blacken in a very short time – spend the extra and make sure they undercoat and prepare.

In summary be very diligent from day one and when you foresee a problem, speak!, as lots of little problems can create an ugly house.

You will never get the standard that you will in your country of origin, be diligent and you can get very close. Good Luck and let us all know how you get along!

[chanchao]

Haven't attempted to build a house myself, but some fairly close friends have. Prepare yourself for a full-time job this coming year. But at the end of it you will have a seriously nice house!

Cheers,

Chanchao

[astral]

Most will do a half-assed job,and no real craftsmanship will be evident.

Almost no Thai understands plumbing and electrical instillation. make sure that the pipe and wire runs are incorporated in the building and not all an addon later.

You will need to understand exactly what you want in the house

and how it should be done.

Do not pay all the money up front.

Successful completion of each stage before you release the next payment.

Keep last 10% back for 6 months until you are satisfied.

It is surprising how little problems come up after you move in.

You will have to watch every step of the way.

Measure and check that they are following the plan.

If you are not satisfied, tell them immediately.

Stop work until they get it right.

If necessary sack the guy and get a new one.

(I had an electrician who was coming to give a detailed quote.

He arrived 2 days late, so I told him not to bother.)

Make sure they understand you are the boss.

Difficult but can be done!!

Edited June 17, 2004 by astral

[Up2U]

Tornado

Sorry to be difficult, but floor tiles should always be laid from the centre of the room, going out towards the walls. this will leave half-tiles at the walls, rough / cut edges covered by skirting.

Thresholds seem unknown here, but a piece of stone cut to size is not expensive.

[ProThaiExpat]

When I built my house, I specified that it was to contain NO WOOD, except for teak door jams.

I just dread the tropics and termites.

I even caught them trying to use wood attic vents.

Anyway, I prevaled.

About a year later, I decided to put molding around my doors and not liking the quote, did it myself.

This last week, I tore out two of my molding jobs, infested with termites.

Anyone building with wood successfully needs to post how to do it. What with dry rot and termites, I just don't see houses stay standing in the tropics made of wood, unless it is teak or iron wood.

Please enlighten me, you who live in wood houses. Do you pay more to build a wood house over brick and plaster. Can you get fire insurance at the same rate.

Builders to be need this information badly.

[ProThaiExpat]

Up2U and Tornado: Having laid some tile myself, your both right to an extent. The conventional wisdom is to divide the room into quarters and work from the four middle tiles outward in each quadrant.

However, in many rooms, I was faced with cut tiles on all walls, and on important exposed walls, where I didn't want to see cut tiles, ie. the entry, etc. So, I dry layed tiles from the wall where no cuts should appear and determined where my "adjusted" center of the room should be. Rarely does the center vary more than a half tile by this method.

For the uninitiated, the purpose of creating quadrants is that you reduce the cumulative error substantially. Each tile, even when spacers are used, tend to multiply the space between the tiles slightly, such that at the end of a run, you can be off by inches.

When I walked into my house under construction in Chiang Mai and saw the 18 inch sq. tiles being layed along one wall, the work was stopped, tile layer banished and the developer brought in his top tile man.

Since I wanted my floors to slope slightly toward the sliding glass doors occupying the entire side of my house, the good tile layer, determined his grade first with string lines, then layed the tiles down the middle of the rooms in a continuous fashion inorder to avoid cuts at the doorways, since my tiles are all the same color.

My tile layer, actually layed the tile like marble layers do in the west, tile by cemented tile.

In the west, thinset is spread over three or four square feet at a time and then the tiles are just placed a dozen at a time on the pre-layed thinset. The marble laying approach is hard to keep the look even and error free, but the more skilled can do it this way well. My floors are beautiful, probably the best thing about the house the developer did. Large rooms with large tiles are more important to be right than a small room with smaller tiles, like a bathroom. Error is less likely to creep in when the "run" of each tile row is relatively short.

There are two grades of tiles in Thailand, so be sure you get grade A tile and buy plenty of extra boxes of tile for repairs later on. Tiles do not match, batch to batch, so make sure your order comes from the same batch and you have a minimum of 20% extra on the first calculation.

[KevinN]

Tornado

Sorry to be difficult, but floor tiles should always be laid from the centre of the room, going out towards the walls. this will leave half-tiles at the walls, rough / cut edges covered by skirting.

Thresholds seem unknown here, but a piece of stone cut to size is not expensive.

I have done some flooring when I was young,both tile and hardwood in the states, and I like to start with the 4 tiles in the middle of the room and work out,specially here in Thailand where nothing is plumb, that way the tile lines at least run square til you get to the cut tiles all the way around.

And has been stated in this thread,watch them as they will have the floors in every room on a different grade,maybe only an inch and maybe 3 feet above or below the room next to it.And I had teak thresholds made and sealed to the floor with acrylic and screws.

TORNADO; I want my electric service coming in at the ceiling lever on the first floor and then down to about mid-wall,say 4 feet above the floor,unless you are building on high ground with never a chance of flooding, on the upstairs I run it just above the dado. 6 years ago we had about 1 m in the house,and 2 years ago it got right to the floor level before it stopped rising and my father in law,next door had over 1m in his house. never had a flood in this area in history and our fill is almost 1 m high,so thought we would be really safe.and now,if we raise everything up and the water does come in,then all we have to do is hose it out and set the electric appliances and the furniture back on the floor til next yr.

[richb2004]

Now I'm worried.

I have been having a house built by contractors for the past six months. It is now 95% finished. My wife has been there for the past two months overseeing things. Aesthetically I have no worry’s, but as for the build and the electrics etc, I am now concerned after all I have heard.

I am going over there next week to see how it looks. The problem is I know nothing about electrics or house building generally. We chose what seemed like a reputable company and the photo's I have look great, but who knows.

I have limited faith in the Thai's. Everything they seem to do is haphazard, or so it seems.

Anyway the building work is guaranteed for ten years apparently, so that’s something.

When I see it I will report back.

[Martin]

Here in Esarn we find there is all the difference in the world between builders who have only done 'local' jobs and those who have worked abroad for several years on 'prestige' jobs.

I recently visited a friend who has had a really nice 'farang-style' house built, and it has some originality about it too.

To start with, he went to the trouble of having the ground level raised, so he is above any possible flood level. And he had the house walls built up so that he has a crawl space below so that all his utilities are accessible. If ever we build from scratch, that is an idea that I will copy.

Then he was lucky enough to have a family connection to a young man who had recently graduated as an architect in one of the Bangkok Universities. For a mere 10,000 bahts he got a well thought out concept and set of drawings to guide his builder. An architect in England or USA would want that just to do a preliminary site visit, never mind put pencil to paper!

His builder had done several years in the Middle East on big jobs. And it is worth paying a bit more for a good top man, and probably having to wait till he can fit you in, in his order book; for good top men won't/can't tolerate poor craftsmen working for them.

Building a house, or re-building one, or even doing major changes and extensions to one, is one of the most experience-full events of your life. For better, for worse, you'll be different after!.

The more you can get to know by going around and talking with others the better (though do remember that "When Peter tells me about Paul, I have the chance to learn much about Peter, but possibly naught about Paul"!).

I won't wish you 'Good luck'. If you need that, you shouldn't be doing it. But I do wish you 'Good self-management, and no sheer bad luck'.

P.S. One thing that we farangs tend to overlook is that, when it rains in Thailand, it really chucks it down, and often with a squall that drives it substantially sideways. So one thing to consider, when looking at drawings of what you might build, is whether you could get from your car into the house without getting drenched, if you came home in a thunderstorm.

[Spee]

Most will do a half-assed job,and no real craftsmanship will be evident.

Almost no Thai understands plumbing and electrical instillation. make sure that the pipe and wire runs are incorporated in the building and not all an addon later.

You will need to understand exactly what you want in the house

and how it should be done.

Do not pay all the money up front.

Successful completion of each stage before you release the next payment.

Keep last 10% back for 6 months until you are satisfied.

You will have to watch every step of the way.

Measure and check that they are following the plan.

If you are not satisfied, tell them immediately.

Stop work until they get it right.

If necessary sack the guy and get a new one.

We are building about 60-clicks from KevinN, and I'm grateful for the insight and advice that he gave me when we visited. I also saw some of the workmanship flaws that he warned about, and tried to talk with the builder about them and preventing more.

Most of the things that I've seen in the responses are valid in my case.

- Our first builder was sacked because of problems, though the second has seemed more reliable so far. Having to sack the first builder also cost us some money that we will probably never see again.

- Couldn't agree more about watching every step of the way. My fiance' and I can't be there, but koon-mae is just down the road, so we get our status reports through her.

- Couldn't agree more about paying in stages. That is what we are doing. We basically pay for labor a few weeks in advance and for materials at the time the builder is ready to be purchased. Though I hadn't thought of it, I like the idea of holding back the last 10% for a bit, to make sure everything works according to plan.

- Also the only other thing I haven't seen in replies, but I know we will have done, is to put in a decent sized water-farm. I had never heard of such a thing before my visit. But after talking about it with KevinN, I understand the rationale and the value.

- KevinN also mentioned something to me about stairs, if you will have a multi-story home. Apparently thai builders tend to make the rise too high and the run too narrow. As our builder will be starting on the stairs in a few weeks, I am in the process of drawing up some pictures to send, to try and make sure the stairs are done properly.

Chok dee ....

[Martin]

The difference between a Thai's idea of a set of stairs and a farang's needs shouting from the rooftops.

Thai stairs assume little feet on muscular legs and a good sense of balance.

That is not surprising here in Esarn. A childhood spent riding Dad's buffalo down to the wallow generates balance and poise. Playing up and down the trees and swimming 'tag' generates muscularity and surface feel.

Look at a Thai bamboo ladder. The rungs are slim and slippery and spaced far apart. (A Brit HSE Inspector would have apoplexy).

We have very good hardwood stairs in our house, which my wife had had built to standard Thai plans long before she met me. But they are steeper than I am used to, the treads are narrower, and the rises are higher.

She got so worried that, last year, she extended the ground floor so we could make a big bedroom downstairs and live totally on the ground floor.

And she is right. One of the biggest dangers to old folk is falls.

The Thai standard 'stair specification'may alter as more and more Thais are born in the cities and miss out on village life (and even there many kids slump in front of telly after school, because Dad now has a tractor).

But, in the meantime, FARANGS BEWARE!!

[stevehaigh]

- Also the only other thing I haven't seen in replies, but I know we will have done, is to put in a decent sized water-farm. I had never heard of such a thing before my visit. But after talking about it with KevinN, I understand the rationale and the value.

What is a "water-farm" that you are refering to?

thanks

[Spee]

What is a "water-farm" that you are refering to?

It is a group of large covered urns to capture rain water run-off from the roof. This water can be used for a variety of things, like washing, showering, emergencies, etc.

If you do some searches for other threads on home building, KevinN provides a link to some pix he has online. A couple of the pix are of his huge water farm. Sorry I can't remember the link or I would post it for you. Possibly you can PM Kevin and he will set you up.

Hope this helps.

[J-Mac]

Here's a page from Ajarn.com chronicling BangkokPhil's house building adventure.

http://www.ajarn.com/house/one.htm

[Nam Kao]

>>>>Anyway the building work is guaranteed for ten years apparently, so that’s something

Guarantees in Thialand

[Martin]

BangkokPhil's pictures remind me of when my wife was building our guest bungalow here.

At the time I was doing 'Supply Teaching' at a Pupil Referral Unit in UK (that is PCspeak for a 'sin bin').

My pupils resolutely refused to learn anything that 'They' said had to be taught, but they were always asking if I had had any more photos from my wife.

They learnt a lot by asking "Why do they do it that way?". (No "sir"; but, if Life had shat on me like it had shat on those kids, no member of the downtreading Establishment would have got a "sir" out of me, either)

[GuestHouse]

I'd advise the OP to go see a lawyer and get some advice about title to the land, leases and house ownership.

I've seen some excellent advice from Sunbelt Asia regarding obtaining 30 year leases to protect foreigners against the land they paid for being stolen by the girl who's name it is in, or by her family.

We have just bought a piece of land and we discussed the need for this contractual approach before we made the investment. I don't believe that my wife would rip me off, if I did I would not have married her, but who knows what happens down the line.

I have a friend who's wife died in a car crash, he had to go to court to get the land title sorted out. The court up held his wife's will that stated their son should get the house and that her husband should have the right to live their for the rest of his natural life. The court made the foreign father the 'estate manager' and gave him a thirty year lease renewable for 30 years.

The reason he had to go to court, his wife's sister tried to take control of the property (for the benefit of my friend's son!).

The court's decision could not have been fairer, but it could have been a lot worse if their had been no will and no correct and legal registration of my friends rights.

I'm not a lawyer but I am lead to understand that in setting up these leases it has to be clear that you are not merely trying to circumvent the law, but are trying to protect both parties. If the court believe you are trying to circumvent the law they may decide against you.

Go see a lawyer - today - you will in anycase have to see a lawyer at some time in the future, for your own good and that of your family.