12 hours ago, transam said:

18 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

You realise that you're saying you're happy for the UK government's taxation policy to be dictated by someone else?

 

And you call that freedom ????.

Yet again you twist a post.......Do you not realise you're doing it.....?.....????

 Ok, so what did you mean by 

 

On 11/7/2020 at 6:30 AM, transam said:

On 11/7/2020 at 6:05 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

Like the US dictating UK taxation policies?!

Sorry, that's not my field, freedom, land and water is.

(7by7 emphasis)

 

12 hours ago, transam said:

<snip>

But Belgium is not the Island UK, our Brexit is being hampered by your lot wanting use of our waters, and because of that refusal uses threats, but, that is your EU, your club, your currency.

 Correct, Belgium is not an island; but it does have a North Sea coast and a sea fishing industry! As do all other EU members with a coast. Including Ireland, which is an island.

 

Under the CFP the power to issue licences to fish in a member state's waters belongs to the government of that member state.

 

Having issued licences to British owned fleets, the UK government then allowed the owners to sell those licences. As far as I am aware, no other government allowed this.

 

At the time quotas on the more popular fish, such as cod, were low because stocks were near extinction levels at the time. So those British owners went for the quick bucks made by selling their licences to foreign owners, who had the foresight to look at the long term, and throwing their employees onto the dole.

 

It is little wonder that those owners are now peeved, to say the least, that the UK government now wants to stop those foreign owners from using the licences they paid for.

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 Correct, Belgium is not an island; but it does have a North Sea coast and a sea fishing industry! As do all other EU members with a coast. Including Ireland, which is an island.

 

Under the CFP the power to issue licences to fish in a member state's waters belongs to the government of that member state.

 

Having issued licences to British owned fleets, the UK government then allowed the owners to sell those licences. As far as I am aware, no other government allowed this.

 

At the time quotas on the more popular fish, such as cod, were low because stocks were near extinction levels at the time. So those British owners went for the quick bucks made by selling their licences to foreign owners, who had the foresight to look at the long term, and throwing their employees onto the dole.

 

It is little wonder that those owners are now peeved, to say the least, that the UK government now wants to stop those foreign owners from using the licences they paid for.

That’s a sensible argument.

 

Sensible arguments don’t work.

3 hours ago, david555 said:

Any way a leaver has never big influance one the one to become left .Compare it with a worker - boss relation or any other one  as there is no reason to win something out for the one become left...as the leaver leave anyway ...

 

Punisment ....? The leaver punish himself ....as it is / was own free choice.

,if feeling it as so is also own choice!

 

The E.U. had no choise in that , they only had to accept it against their wish but now start crying "punishment ".

 

As they are not obliged  a sudden to accept and change whatever that unsatisfied member like to become is a ridicolous stance .

 

A leaving party has never a strong negotiation power ...as  left anyway with no return option .

Once more " leave means leaving  " & "out means out " ....how many times it is not full blown out of HOC in our E.U. direction ..?

So final thing is none of both can / will not give in on their red lines ...both have decided that is their right and ultimate wish ...

 

One word ...a stalemate situation .

 

Where an employee leaves and joins a company that does business with his original employer to the mutual benefit of both, the parting is usually amicable.

Unless of course his original employer is petty rather than smart and would undermine his own business in an attempt to see his ex employee fail ????

The intelligent employer would encourage both parties to be successful and grow through co-operation

5 hours ago, david555 said:

<snip>

In a way you say same thing as if they should  give U.K, "that now out of the club thirth party " , same benefits as before for free no obligations...

 

That is basically what the Leave campaigners promised us in 2016. Effectively saying "We can have all the benefits of membership without any of the responsibilities."

 

The EU, naturally, was never going to do that. Remain said as much, but Leave called such warnings 'Project Fear.'

 

Over the last four years that fact has become obvious to even the most hardened Brexiteer. Hence all their cries of EU intransience and vindictiveness and more and more attempts to convince themselves they did the right thing!

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

That is basically what the Leave campaigners promised us in 2016. Effectively saying "We can have all the benefits of membership without any of the responsibilities."

 

The EU, naturally, was never going to do that. Remain said as much, but Leave called such warnings 'Project Fear.'

 

Over the last four years that fact has become obvious to even the most hardened Brexiteer. Hence all their cries of EU intransience and vindictiveness and more and more attempts to convince themselves they did the right thing!

 

No need to convince themselves of anything, UK has left.  ????  UK  are now negotiating, this they have every right to do, and to work to accomplish a beneficial agreement, if not obtainable, then no agreement it is.

22 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Where an employee leaves and joins a company that does business with his original employer to the mutual benefit of both, the parting is usually amicable.

Unless of course his original employer is petty rather than smart and would undermine his own business in an attempt to see his ex employee fail ????

The intelligent employer would encourage both parties to be successful and grow through co-operation

The ex-employee doesn't retain or usually demand access to the company's facilities - other than on an occasional guest basis - once he's left.

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

The ex-employee doesn't retain or usually demand access to the company's facilities - other than on an occasional guest basis - once he's left.

If he is putting enough business in their direction an 'open door' invitation may well be in place.

23 minutes ago, 473geo said:

 

No need to convince themselves of anything, UK has left.  ????  UK  are now negotiating, this they have every right to do, and to work to accomplish a beneficial agreement, if not obtainable, then no agreement it is.

 

Yes, the UK has left; without the promises made by the Leave campaigners have been shown to be worthless.

 

That is why so many Brexiteers are desperately trying to convince themselves they made the right decision!

 

The best option for this country would have been to remain in the EU; but we have left. We chose to leave, they don't actually owe us any sort of deal at all. 

 

However, a fair trade deal will be of benefit to both of us; but remember we have far more to lose if there is no deal than the EU does.

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 

Yes, the UK has left; without the promises made by the Leave campaigners have been shown to be worthless.

 

That is why so many Brexiteers are desperately trying to convince themselves they made the right decision!

 

The best option for this country would have been to remain in the EU; but we have left. We chose to leave, they don't actually owe us any sort of deal at all. 

 

However, a fair trade deal will be of benefit to both of us; but remember we have far more to lose if there is no deal than the EU does.

 

Time to look at here and now, UK will survive, there is no other option, so I guess you are either a bend over and take it person, or a stand up to the 'You have more to lose than us' EU - personally I go for the second option as I think the EU are no longer the safe bet they once were, when they had the participation of the UK.

29 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Yes, the UK has left; without the promises made by the Leave campaigners have been shown to be worthless.

 

That is why so many Brexiteers are desperately trying to convince themselves they made the right decision!

 

The best option for this country would have been to remain in the EU; but we have left. We chose to leave, they don't actually owe us any sort of deal at all. 

 

However, a fair trade deal will be of benefit to both of us; but remember we have far more to lose if there is no deal than the EU does.

As previously posted majority of both remainers and leavers made their decisions long before both the leave and the remain referendum campaign was launched.

I am sure most of them would have listened to both the leave and remain sides campaigns but I doubt many of them would have changed their position before June 2016 based on what they heard during the campaign.

I don't see many Brexiteers on this forum desperately trying to convince themselves they made the right decision and I suspect that most of them haven't changed their minds

We know from your own viewpoint that to remain was the preferred option, but that option wasn't  shared by the majority of people in the UK that actually voted in the referendum

Out of interest do you know how many posts you make each month on Brexit between 3,000-5,000

 

7 minutes ago, 473geo said:

 

Time to look at here and now, UK will survive, there is no other option, so I guess you are either a bend over and take it person, or a stand up to the 'You have more to lose than us' EU - personally I go for the second option as I think the EU are no longer the safe bet they once were, when they had the participation of the UK.

 

I  believe that this country's future is better with the EU than without it. As we are no longer a member that means an equitable trade deal.

 

That does not mean bending over and taking it!

 

It also does not mean the UK saying to the EU "this is what we want; take it or leave it!' 

 

Will we survive without a EU trade deal? Maybe; eventually. But how long will it take to find markets to replace the 43% of our exports which currently go to the EU?

 

What will happen to the British economy and British jobs until we do replace that market; or, worst of all, if we never do?

BJ has lost an ally in the US because of the election. Trump wanted to help BJ with deals as he did not like the EU. Biden likes the EU. The problems for the UK are only getting worse.

 

Anyway EU should just stop and take the hit and let the Brits take the bigger hit. They should never ever compromise on the level playing field (and I am sure they wont). If the UK wont want to confirm just cut them off. 

 

The UK has a point about fishing, let them be strong on that, but thinking they can get out from the level playing field and not accept the EU's its wishes is just unrealistic.

5 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

I  believe that this country's future is better with the EU than without it. As we are no longer a member that means an equitable trade deal.

 

That does not mean bending over and taking it!

 

It also does not mean the UK saying to the EU "this is what we want; take it or leave it!' 

 

Will we survive without a EU trade deal? Maybe; eventually. But how long will it take to find markets to replace the 43% of our exports which currently go to the EU?

 

What will happen to the British economy and British jobs until we do replace that market; or, worst of all, if we never do?

The leavers rather see the economy go to tatters then to admit they were wrong. Just wait and see if they cant access the EU the Brits will suffer a lot more then the EU. For the EU the pain is spread over many countries for the Brits its 43% that could be lost. (though they probably don't lose it all). 

 

Lots of people will suffer all because of nationalism. 

8 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

I  believe that this country's future is better with the EU than without it. As we are no longer a member that means an equitable trade deal.

 

That does not mean bending over and taking it!

 

It also does not mean the UK saying to the EU "this is what we want; take it or leave it!' 

 

Will we survive without a EU trade deal? Maybe; eventually. But how long will it take to find markets to replace the 43% of our exports which currently go to the EU?

 

What will happen to the British economy and British jobs until we do replace that market; or, worst of all, if we never do?

 

Surely the job market will be of less concern when the European migrants flee to the economic safety of their affluent EU birth countries based on your negative predictions ????

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

BJ has lost an ally in the US because of the election. Trump wanted to help BJ with deals as he did not like the EU. Biden likes the EU. The problems for the UK are only getting worse.

 

Anyway EU should just stop and take the hit and let the Brits take the bigger hit. They should never ever compromise on the level playing field (and I am sure they wont). If the UK wont want to confirm just cut them off. 

 

The UK has a point about fishing, let them be strong on that, but thinking they can get out from the level playing field and not accept the EU's its wishes is just unrealistic.

 

Biden should be smart enough to stand back and let the negotiations take place. There is only one reason the EU are still at the table  - they have looked at the numbers ????

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

As previously majority of both remainers and leavers made their decisions long before both the leave and the remain referendum campaign was launched.

I am sure most of them would have listened to both the leave and remain sides campaigns but I doubt many of them would have changed their position before June 2016 based on what they heard during the campaign.

 

As previously, neither Leave nor Remain aimed their campaign at the already committed; they aimed them at the undecided. It was the effect each campaign had upon those undecided which swung the result.

8 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I don't see many Brexiteers on this forum desperately trying to convince themselves they made the right decision 

Then you've not been looking.

12 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

and I suspect that most of them haven't changed their minds

I, too, doubt that many of them have changed their minds; but  polls and even the vote share last December show that many here in the UK have; or at least want an opportunity to accept or reject any UK/EU deal.

14 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

We know from your own viewpoint that to remain was the preferred option, but that option wasn't  shared by the majority of people in the UK that actually voted in the referendum

True; but as already said, many have since changed their minds as the true effects of Brexit, deal or no deal, have become apparent.

15 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Out of interest do you know how many posts you make each month on Brexit between 3,000-5,000

Really? I'll take your word on that. Do you also know how many posts  Brexiteers like @nauseus, @transam, @kingdong etc. make each month?

 

Not that I see how it's relevant; unless you're trying to say that people with whom you disagree should be limited on how many posts they can make!

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

BJ has lost an ally in the US because of the election. Trump wanted to help BJ with deals as he did not like the EU. Biden likes the EU. The problems for the UK are only getting worse.

 

Anyway EU should just stop and take the hit and let the Brits take the bigger hit. They should never ever compromise on the level playing field (and I am sure they wont). If the UK wont want to confirm just cut them off. 

 

The UK has a point about fishing, let them be strong on that, but thinking they can get out from the level playing field and not accept the EU's its wishes is just unrealistic.

Biden will be too busy trying to prevent civil war breaking out in america.

 

9 minutes ago, 473geo said:

 

Surely the job market will be of less concern when the European migrants flee to the economic safety of their affluent EU birth countries based on your negative predictions ????

 

Even if every EU worker currently in the UK were to leave, and many already have, that would not release enough jobs to replace those lost were we to lose access to our largest export market.

16 minutes ago, robblok said:

The leavers rather see the economy go to tatters then to admit they were wrong. Just wait and see if they cant access the EU the Brits will suffer a lot more then the EU. For the EU the pain is spread over many countries for the Brits its 43% that could be lost. (though they probably don't lose it all). 

 

Lots of people will suffer all because of nationalism. 

They need us more than we need them.

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

Even if every EU worker currently in the UK were to leave, and many already have, that would not release enough jobs to replace those lost were we to lose access to our largest export market.

Our present largest export market,just watch the uk pull finger when we leave.the world is rapidly changing,and the uk throwing off its eu shackles will once again be a country the rest of the world will emulate and aspire to copy.

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

Even if every EU worker currently in the UK were to leave, and many already have, that would not release enough jobs to replace those lost were we to lose access to our largest export market.

You seriously think no goods will cross the channel and UK will be isolated?  There will just be a 'border' you seriously think the EU will cease all trade with the UK on 1st of jan 2021 ???? The negotiations are not about movement of goods but about who controls it!!!

21 minutes ago, 473geo said:

 

Biden should be smart enough to stand back and let the negotiations take place. There is only one reason the EU are still at the table  - they have looked at the numbers ????

No the reason they are negotiating is because they are smarter then BJ. They want to prevent income loss but not at all cost. Its better for both sides if there is an agreement. Only BJ is dumb if he thinks that he can have access to the market without agreeing to the level playing field. That is the basis of the EU free market. Just idiotic to think he could change that. So unless he really wants no deal he changes. Because that is one thing the Eu wont change as its a basic principle.

8 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

As previously, neither Leave nor Remain aimed their campaign at the already committed; they aimed them at the undecided. It was the effect each campaign had upon those undecided which swung the result.

Then you've not been looking.

I, too, doubt that many of them have changed their minds; but  polls and even the vote share last December show that many here in the UK have; or at least want an opportunity to accept or reject any UK/EU deal.

True; but as already said, many have since changed their minds as the true effects of Brexit, deal or no deal, have become apparent.

Really? I'll take your word on that. Do you also know how many posts  Brexiteers like @nauseus, @transam, @kingdong etc. make each month?

 

Not that I see how it's relevant; unless you're trying to say that people with whom you disagree should be limited on how many posts they can make!

If the UK voters want a vote on the deal or wanted to cancel Brexit they should have requested through their local political parties that

they wanted their party not to field any candidates in their  constituencies and just leave the field open for an open contest between lib dems and the conservatives. It would mean that Non Conservative MP's that were elected before the election was announced with have to say goodbye to the gravy train of being a MP

Labour policy on Brexit was unclear as Labour wanted to renationizing a number of industries that outside the EU was a possibility inside the EU unlikely that would have taken place.

Carry on Posting I sure you will,

I have no issue just if your trying to  persuade the forum Brexiteers through your posts to change their position you have as much chance as Trump has in getting relected next January

3 minutes ago, 473geo said:

You seriously think no goods will cross the channel and UK will be isolated?  There will just be a 'border' you seriously think the EU will cease all trade with the UK on 1st of jan 2021 ???? The negotiations are not about movement of goods but about who controls it!!!

I have clients who will stop with UK business soon many actually because of the new rules. These are small companies that just don't want the hassle. There are many like that the UK will lose a lot even if there is an agreement as things will become harder then they were. Anyone with an ounce of business sense knows that.

 

And no they won't lose all their exports that is unrealistic but its equally unrealistic to think they will keep all of it. They probably lose half of it deal or no deal as things are harder then before. Especially smaller companies will opt out. 

 

I have genuine experience with cross border trade and taxes with the UK as I have many clients and of those there are those that do business with the UK. Most will stop buying from the UK because of the new taxes and rules. Now they can just not pay VAT by giving their vat NR to their UK clients. That is something that will stop and vat will have to be reclaimed in a harder way. These are things that small companies dont like. 

 

You might think there wont be a change but the UK will feel it and so will the EU. The UK will just be harder hit as the EU is bigger and its spread out more.  Its just stupidity of the UK to have left the EU (from an economic and trade perspective)

1 minute ago, robblok said:

No the reason they are negotiating is because they are smarter then BJ. They want to prevent income loss but not at all cost. Its better for both sides if there is an agreement. Only BJ is dumb if he thinks that he can have access to the market without agreeing to the level playing field. That is the basis of the EU free market. Just idiotic to think he could change that. So unless he really wants no deal he changes. Because that is one thing the Eu wont change as its a basic principle.

 

EU can't change, the bureaucracy and veto set up is too rigid, so they must try and force the UK to agree.

One thing a border will interrupt Rob is the consolidation of goods into Schiphol then across the channel as it becomes more economical to ship direct. Be careful what you wish for ????

Here is another thought for you guys, covid has highlighted the ability of a workforce to work from home.

Part of the cheaper outsourced 'overseas services' was the comparable cost of office space, also salaries.

I predict a review of these outsourced overseas corporate services with the possibility to bring them back 'in house', with more part time homeworking roles created.

23 minutes ago, 473geo said:

 

Surely the job market will be of less concern when the European migrants flee to the economic safety of their affluent EU birth countries based on your negative predictions ????

Especially if we get tough on all the benefits they,re currently claiming,

On 11/7/2020 at 6:30 AM, transam said:

Sorry, that's not my field, freedom, land and water is....????

 

You had that before Brexit.

 

13 hours ago, luckyluke said:

You seems to be confused by this quote transam.

 

I am aware my English is not always perfectly understandable for Britons.

 

I will try to do better :

You claimed that the UK can't do what it wants due to the E.U..

I claim that this is not the case in Belgium, and so far I know neither in other European countries member of the E.U..

That we, men in the street, don't feel any concrete influence from the E.U. in our daily life.

And if it is the case in the U.K., to let us know here, what they may be.

 

Hope it helps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're over-paying on some imported food for a start.