Scotland's Sturgeon puts UK on independence warning: We want a referendum soon

[Baerboxer]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

We have established this already, vogie. Since at least 2014, the majority of Scots want independence from the UK. Now, the majority of people hailing from all areas but living in Scotland wants independance. 

 

You can continue to live with your fingers in your ears, but facts are facts.

 

5555! Based on opinion polls.

 

I'd like no tax, 100% pension increases and a knighthood. Almost as realistic!

 

Dream on.

[NanLaew]

18 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

24 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Politicians no longer have ethics and regard hypocrisy and lying as tools of the trade, as we see time and time again.

So true.....how quickly standards have changed (fallen) since I was a kid.

Yes, I can just about remember the Liberal party and Jeremy Thorpe.

[Baerboxer]

On 11/27/2020 at 3:43 PM, robblok said:

Strange Brexiteers wanting freedom but not respecting the Scots to want the same. Double standards anyone ?

 

No it's not.

 

If you can't see the difference between the UK, a sovereign nation, whose people are British, and the EU, which isn't a nation, then you really need some education.

 

If you note, Brexit referendum was nation wide. 

[melvinmelvin]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

We have established this already, vogie. Since at least 2014, the majority of Scots want independence from the UK. Now, the majority of people hailing from all areas but living in Scotland wants independance. 

 

You can continue to live with your fingers in your ears, but facts are facts.

 

listen,

you and this other being not living in Soi RR,

 

facts re the fancies of the jocks are not established, thats the whole copulating reason for having another ref.

 

the size of leave/dont-leave fancies is currently in a dunno state

 

arrange a do, have a shout and brawl, have a raffle, find out --> act

 

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

We haven't established anything, all you have done is pinned your hopes on meaningless polls, the only true indication is the 2014 referendum, that is fact.

 

And research showed that we don't want to be in a union with you. Sorry; don't take it personally but you just make the worst political decisions possible and we are tired of having to put up with the consequences. 

[NanLaew]

8 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

listen,

you and this other being not living in Soi RR,

 

facts re the fancies of the jocks are not established, thats the whole copulating reason for having another ref.

 

the size of leave/dont-leave fancies is currently in a dunno state

 

arrange a do, have a shout and brawl, have a raffle, find out --> act

 

 

And a(nother) non-binding, advisory and consultative referendum establishes what exactly?

 

Based on the Brexit referendum of 2015, another referendum should be good for a least another five or six years of parliamentary debate interrupted by frequent confidence votes, leadership changes, legal challenges, appeals, horse-trades, snap elections, coalitions, etc., etc..

Edited November 30, 2020 by NanLaew

[CorpusChristie]

39 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

So you are claiming the statement "Once in a generation" is legally binding? Yes or no?

If its a yes does the statement "Dead in a ditch" also become legally binding?

 

   The former was an agreement , the latter was a figure of speech and wasnt meant to be taken literally ( He also didnt say he would be "dead in a ditch" , the first bit of the sentance was "I'd rather be dead in a ditch than blah blah blah................"

[Surelynot]

9 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Yes, I can just about remember the Liberal party and Jeremy Thorpe.

I can still remember the joke that went round .....

 

VOTE LIBERAL OR WE'LL SHOOT YOUR DOG........do you remember that?

[RuamRudy]

16 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Unfotunately, it's not about Scotland and England. And Wales and Northern Ireland which you seem to ignore.

 

It's about Scotland and the UK. Scotland is, like the others and integral part of the UK. Only the UK Parliament can change that. Whether they would wish to, take advice from the electorate in an advisory referendum or as part of an election manifesto is debatable.

 

The nationality of people in the UK is British. First and foremost.

 

I don't forget them at all. Remember, it is not me who is claiming that Scottish independence is an anti-English reaction. If one can say that without evidnce, why then is it not also an anti-Welsh or anti-NI reaction? Could it be that English exceptionalism, although a clearly futile obsession, still alive and kicking?

 

The UK is a political construct that has failed to establish popular supremacy despite it being in existence for 300 years (although its current form is barely 100 years old). Most people do not feel British but, rather, English, Irish, Northern Irish, Welsh or Scottish. There is no overwhelming love for the UK even within its borders.

 

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2011/10/16/Britishness.pdf

[JonnyF]

29 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

You do realise that your vastly misplaced exceptionalism is shining brightly, don't you? 

 

Scots want independence from the UK so it simply MUST be about England? It couldn't possibly be about Scots simply wanting Scots to be in charge of their affairs. No, because everything revolves round England, in your mind, it must be a reaction against England. 

 

Here's the thing. England, like the rest of the UK, stopped being relevant on the international stage 70 years ago. Now, we want independence to make Scotland better. It has nothing to do with England or our feelings towards the English. 

 

I am sorry that it hurts you to be so irrelevant but that's the facts of it. 

 

I don't believe you. You don't even want an Independent Scotland (you want to join the EU) so if you can't even be honest about that contradiction why should I believe the rest of it?

 

It doesn't hurt at all, Scotland is pretty much irrelevant to us in England. I only feel sorry for the 55% of Scots who voted to Remain in the UK and whose democratic decision is being disrespected by the SNP and their nationalist extremist supporters. They are the ones who will be hurt by this nationalist folly. Your false pride will lead to your downfall.

[wombat]

you keep on having a referendum until you get the result you want?

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

And research showed that we don't want to be in a union with you. Sorry; don't take it personally but you just make the worst political decisions possible and we are tired of having to put up with the consequences. 

I don't take it personally, I just don't want to see you getting let down again and making you say things that you wouldn't normally say. It is just typical of a Scottish Nationalist who in the minority doesn't give two monkeys as to what a Scottish Unionist in the majority thinks. The UK is not just about the SNP you know.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, wombat said:

you keep on having a referendum until you get the result you want?

 

Pretty much so, because to remain in the UK is to incur further damage to add to the colossal toll of being shackled to the union for centuries. 

[RuamRudy]

Just now, vogie said:

I don't take it personally, I just don't want to see you getting let down again and making you say things that you wouldn't normally say. It is just typical of a Scottish Nationalist who in the minority doesn't give two monkeys as to what a Scottish Unionist in the majority thinks. The UK is not just about the SNP you know.

 

The majority of UK voters did not vote Tory. Your statement applies equally to them, I assume?

[vogie]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

The majority of UK voters did not vote Tory. Your statement applies equally to them, I assume?

The majority of Scots did not vote for the SNP.

 

[Surelynot]

Why are the English (in the main) bothered about Scottish independence?

 

I am English, but look on Scotland as God's country and have no qualms about the Scots looking after themselves.....if it comes to it I hope they do and it works out well....why shouldn't they have independence (assuming that is what the majority want)......and the same goes for Wales and NI.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Why are the English (in the main) bothered about Scottish independence?

 

I am English, but look on Scotland as God's country and have no qualms about the Scots looking after themselves.....if it comes to it I hope they do and it works out well....why shouldn't they have independence (assuming that is what the majority want)......and the same goes for Wales and NI.

Because they don't want independence, hope this helps.

Edited November 30, 2020 by vogie

[Surelynot]

Just now, vogie said:

Because they don't want independence, hope this helps.

Who?...The Scots?

[2530Ubon]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

The majority of Scots did not vote for the SNP.

That's really interesting. Is that because the rest didn't vote?

 

The SNP will always win elections because the other choices are labour, liberal democrats or conservative. They need a new party to breath some life into Scottish politics.

 

I think there was a brexit party which surprisingly didn't win any seats...

Edited November 30, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[NanLaew]

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

The majority of UK voters did not vote Tory. Your statement applies equally to them, I assume?

 

Is the popular vote tally really relevant here? Parliaments and governments in England and the devolved assemblies aren't based on who didn't vote for them.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

That's really interesting. Is that because the rest didn't vote?

 

The SNP will always win elections because the other choices are labour or conservative. They need a new party to breath some life into Scottish politics.

I agree.

[melvinmelvin]

33 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

And a(nother) non-binding, advisory and consultative referendum establishes what exactly?

 

Based on the Brexit referendum of 2015, another referendum should be good for a least another five or six years of parliamentary debate interrupted by frequent confidence votes, leadership changes, legal challenges, appeals, horse-trades, snap elections, coalitions, etc., etc..

 

it establishes a sound and solid political substrate for carrying out what you list in your 2nd paragraph

ie, keep the wheels rolling . . . . .

 

[RuamRudy]

22 minutes ago, vogie said:

The majority of Scots did not vote for the SNP.

 

 

So what is your point? A greater percentage of Scots voted for the SNP than voted for the Nasty Party. The vast majority of Scots voted against Brexit. Your lack of consistency in thought and message is ringing loudly. 

[RuamRudy]

21 minutes ago, vogie said:

Because they don't want independence, hope this helps.

 

Yes, nothing like an Englishman telling us Scots what we think.

[vogie]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

 

So what is your point? A greater percentage of Scots voted for the SNP than voted for the Nasty Party. The vast majority of Scots voted against Brexit. Your lack of consistency in thought and message is ringing loudly. 

Starting up the insults RR. A greater percentage, remind me was it 2%. Why do you always have to revert to name calling, I do not call the SNP names, show some respect!

[NanLaew]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

4 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

That's really interesting. Is that because the rest didn't vote?

 

The SNP will always win elections because the other choices are labour or conservative. They need a new party to breath some life into Scottish politics.

I agree.

I disagree. Although the Tories and Labour have both ignored Scotland at their peril, a 'spleet new' Scottish party would have about the same half-life as a UKIP. Let the SNP pop their own balloon first and let's see who's quick enough on their feet to fill the vacuum.

[Rookiescot]

Just now, Baerboxer said:

 

I don't want to answer for another poster. But if this helps.

 

Once in a generation, in this case, clearly is not legally binding. Politicians no longer have ethics and regard hypocrisy and lying as tools of the trade, as we see time and time again. So nothing they say has any real meaning and can be reversed as soon as necessary to them.

 

Also worth remembering, the results of advisory referendums are not legally binding on governments and politicians either. They are an expression of the electorates wishes only. 

 

So when you guys won the Brexit referendum you would have been happy to see the government just ignore the result?

As for politicians no longer have ethics and regard hypocrisy and lying as tools of the trade? We you do support Johnson dont you.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Yes, nothing like an Englishman telling us Scots what we think.

Told you before, you are a Scottish Nationalist, the Scots unionists have told you and it makes not one iota worth of difference to you.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The UK is not an absolute democracy it's a constitutional monarchy with an elected lower house and appointed upper house. 

 

AFAIK, Switzerland is the only European country that regularly uses binding referendums to determine key issues.

 

Btw, I didn't vote for Brexit, so assume your sarcasm it meant for others.

 

8% of the UK's population live in Scotland. To allow those 8% to determine whether the country breaks up or not, based on a simple majority of 51% or just over 4% of the population, doesn't seem very democratic. 

 

 

 

I dont know the figures for the population of the EU but apparently 40 odd percent of the UK was able to remove us from it with the rest of the EU having no say. 

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Starting up the insults RR. A greater percentage, remind me was it 2%. Why do you always have to revert to name calling, I do not call the SNP names, show some respect!

 

So you have no leg to stand on so you cry faux tears of outrage for a political party. I admire your determination to get in a response, but that is pretty weak, don't you think?