Scotland's Sturgeon puts UK on independence warning: We want a referendum soon

[Walter Travolta]

10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Problem is the devil we know.

If you think I want to be ruled by English nationalist Brexiteers then I got news for you.

Its that English exceptionalism that gets you guys every time aint it.

The majority of Scotland dont care what you think or want. 

Its no longer about you.

Thats the bit that really hurts aint it?

Suddenly England is diminished because Scotland left ???? 

I love it when angry commenters put a laughing emoji at the end of their angry rants haha, keep em coming 

No hurt here rookie, Im in the union and so are the scots, like it, lump it, read it and weep. Oh and the majority of Scotland do care what we think . . . the 55% majority - BOOM

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

You don't have any factual evidence then, knew it.

 

I have no factual evidence that the universe is 13.8 billion years old but I am prepared to accept the research of people who know better about these things than me. But you keep living in your denial and keep pretending that the UK is as united as can be.

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, Walter Travolta said:

I love it when angry commenters put a laughing emoji at the end of their angry rants haha, keep em coming 

No hurt here rookie, Im in the union and so are the scots, like it, lump it, read it and weep. Oh and the majority of Scotland do care what we think . . . the 55% majority - BOOM

Walter, mate - you would have been incorrect had you said that in 2014; you are SO wide of the mark now though. 

[Walter Travolta]

13 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

The majority of Scots voted for independence in 2014. The majority of Scots and Scottish residents support independence now. 

So why are you still attached to the Yoon then if that was the case? 

[kingdong]

10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Yeah like its misplaced. You and I both KNOW why you voted for Brexit. 

Man up and admit it.

If i had the powers you proffess you have,i wouldn,t be out on this forum,i,d be out skinting william hills,you cannot even counter a point regarding the race card without playing the race card again pathetic.

[Walter Travolta]

13 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You really need to read the rest of the thread before you turned up.

Just making yourself look silly now. 

Still nothing to debate on your independence? Just more petty insults? Come on please tell us how your whisky sales are gonna make your GDP soar

[vogie]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

 

I have no factual evidence that the universe is 13.8 billion years old but I am prepared to accept the research of people who know better about these things than me. But you keep living in your denial and keep pretending that the UK is as united as can be.

Obfuscation, showing dodgy poll graphs is not going to cut the mustard I'm afraid RR.

[Rookiescot]

10 minutes ago, Walter Travolta said:

He hasnt brought 1 debate about the referendum yet, just simple insults and wild guesses. It seems people like this are more interested in personalities and how racist or fascist 1 iss so they can keep using them. Youre right, The English dont hate the Scots and many Scots dont hate the English, but the haters hate because they are jealous we create the wealth for our union and drip feed them the scraps

Yes thats right.

I hate my English family members.

I hate my English friends.

I hate my English neighbours.

See this is where all you uninformed Brexiteers English Nationalists go wrong.

You think you know why Scots want independence but you dont.

How about taking back control.

How about Scottish fishing waters

How about sovereignty.

How about getting away from an unelected House of Lords and beaurocrates in Westminster.

How about securing our own borders.

How about not being dictated to by a corrupt and unaccountable government in a foreign country.

 

Any of that stuff ring any bells?

 

Or how about we just become the same as every other independent country.

We dont want special treatment.

We just want to be the same as everyone else. 

[Walter Travolta]

15 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Good lord, you don't really worry about irony, do you?

Irony where? You must have lost some and refound it my comment are clear and simple facts, for the simple 

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, Walter Travolta said:

Still nothing to debate on your independence? Just more petty insults? Come on please tell us how your whisky sales are gonna make your GDP soar

What ?

The same as the USA trade deal ?

ROFL

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, Walter Travolta said:

I love it when angry commenters put a laughing emoji at the end of their angry rants haha, keep em coming 

No hurt here rookie, Im in the union and so are the scots, like it, lump it, read it and weep. Oh and the majority of Scotland do care what we think . . . the 55% majority - BOOM

Its no longer about you.

[Walter Travolta]

12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Because the franchise was extended to English, Welsh and NI residing in Scotland, plus EU nationals who were told by Project Fear that they would lose their right to remain in an independent Scotland if they voted for independence. This group was sufficient to tilt the balance in favour of No. 

 

BTW this is not fanciful speculation but the result of academic research. 

So you lost because of Scots living in the other Yoon countries voted against? So what, theyre Scots and can vote from anywhere. How many of those Scots voted who went 1 way to Argentina in 78 haha, honestly you 2 are a right double act, hilarious

[kingdong]

14 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - and supports Farage, then a racist it is. 

Obviously a bit too much to expect an intellectual counter,see you like a joke,in future however in future try and make one containing an element of humour.

[Walter Travolta]

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Walter, mate - you would have been incorrect had you said that in 2014; you are SO wide of the mark now though. 

Am I? Any factual evidence in the form a questionaire filled in by every Scot old enough to vote? Thought not. You do know polls arent with wiping your slope with right? 

[Rookiescot]

10 minutes ago, Walter Travolta said:

I love it when angry commenters put a laughing emoji at the end of their angry rants haha, keep em coming 

No hurt here rookie, Im in the union and so are the scots, like it, lump it, read it and weep. Oh and the majority of Scotland do care what we think . . . the 55% majority - BOOM

This from a man who only learned 10 minutes ago what a laughing with tears emoji meant. ???? 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, Walter Travolta said:

Am I? Any factual evidence in the form a questionaire filled in by every Scot old enough to vote? Thought not. You do know polls arent with wiping your slope with right? 

What all last 12 of them are wrong?

Hmmm.

Tricky one this but dont you think theres a teensy weensy chance your talking mince?

[Walter Travolta]

8 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Yes thats right.

I hate my English family members.

I hate my English friends.

I hate my English neighbours.

See this is where all you uninformed Brexiteers English Nationalists go wrong.

You think you know why Scots want independence but you dont.

How about taking back control.

How about Scottish fishing waters

How about sovereignty.

How about getting away from an unelected House of Lords and beaurocrates in Westminster.

How about securing our own borders.

How about not being dictated to by a corrupt and unaccountable government in a foreign country.

 

Any of that stuff ring any bells?

 

Or how about we just become the same as every other independent country.

We dont want special treatment.

We just want to be the same as everyone else. 

Crikey you nearly had me in tears then

[Walter Travolta]

Just now, Rookiescot said:

What all last 12 of them are wrong?

Hmmm.

Tricky one this but dont you think theres a teensy weensy chance your talking mince?

Are you still part of the UK? There is your answer

[2530Ubon]

59 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

You need to do some more research. IF the Shetland Isles declared independence they would be an enclave.

Do the Channel Islands own half the English channel?

Does the Isle of Man own half the Irish sea?

Go find out.

So I did some more research.

 

An enclave is not what the shetlands would be, as an enclave is a territory (or a part of one) that is entirely surrounded by the territory of one other state. The Shetlands woould become either a Crown dependency, a British overseas territory, or an independent nation.

 

Seeing as only 8% of Shetlanders want complete independence, a movement called Wir Shetland was launched in October 2015 to secede from the rest of Scotland in favour of becoming either a Crown Dependency or a British Overseas Territory, as a means of achieving greater autonomy for the Shetland Isles.

 

The SNP only holds one seat on the council - the other 21 are independents. So it wasn't the SNP that gave the greenlight, it was led by independents.

 

The channel islands have 2 islands which are  'Crown dependencies' - self governing islands that are possessed by the UK. Internationally, the dependencies are considered "territories for which the United Kingdom is responsible", rather than sovereign states.

 

As the Crown dependencies are not sovereign states, the power to pass legislation affecting the islands ultimately rests with the government of the United Kingdom (though this is rarely done without the consent of the dependencies, and the right to do so is disputed). However, they each have their own legislative assembly, with the power to legislate on many local matters with the assent of the Crown.

 

The territorial waters were purchased by the Isle of Man Government from the United Kingdom Government in 1991. The Territorial Sea Committee (TSC) is a cross-governmental committee which was set up to manage the Isle of Man's interests following the purchase. Purchased for £800,000, the ownership of the Territorial Sea has resulted in the Island collecting more than £2 million in capital fees and currently receives approximately £350,000 annually for cables and pipelines passing through the area and also from oil and gas exploration licences.

 

To summarize, The waters would belong to the Crown, and the oil and gas reserves would be lost to an independent Scotland.

Edited November 30, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[Walter Travolta]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

This from a man who only learned 10 minutes ago what a laughing with tears emoji meant. ???? 

When I said crying I said crying in Thailand. The laughing emoji I was referring to WAS the 1 with tears. Cant cure stupid. Why are you being so childish? Is your mate using you as a glove puppet?

 

[Walter Travolta]

4 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

So I did some more research.

 

An enclave is not what the shetlands would be, as an enclave is a territory (or a part of one) that is entirely surrounded by the territory of one other state. The Shetlands woould become either a Crown dependency, a British overseas territory, or an independent nation.

 

Seeing as only 8% of Shetlanders want complete independence, a movement called Wir Shetland was launched in October 2015 to secede from the rest of Scotland in favour of becoming either a Crown Dependency or a British Overseas Territory, as a means of achieving greater autonomy for the Shetland Isles.

 

The SNP only holds one seat on the council - the other 21 are independents. So it wasn't the SNP that gave the greenlight, it was led by independents.

 

The channel islands have 2 islands which are  'Crown dependencies' - self governing islands that are possessed by the UK. Internationally, the dependencies are considered "territories for which the United Kingdom is responsible", rather than sovereign states.

 

As the Crown dependencies are not sovereign states, the power to pass legislation affecting the islands ultimately rests with the government of the United Kingdom (though this is rarely done without the consent of the dependencies, and the right to do so is disputed). However, they each have their own legislative assembly, with the power to legislate on many local matters with the assent of the Crown.

 

The territorial waters were purchased by the Isle of Man Government from the United Kingdom Government in 1991. The Territorial Sea Committee (TSC) is a cross-governmental committee which was set up to manage the Isle of Man's interests following the purchase. Purchased for £800,000, the ownership of the Territorial Sea has resulted in the Island collecting more than £2 million in capital fees and currently receives approximately £350,000 annually for cables and pipelines passing through the area and also from oil and gas exploration licences.

 

To summarize, The waters would belong to the Crown, and the oil and gas reserves would be lost to an independent Scotland.

Love it, nice one. 

[Rookiescot]

9 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

So I did some more research.

 

An enclave is not what the shetlands would be, as an enclave is a territory (or a part of one) that is entirely surrounded by the territory of one other state. The Shetlands woould become either a Crown dependency, a British overseas territory, or an independent nation.

 

Seeing as only 8% of Shetlanders want complete independence, a movement called Wir Shetland was launched in October 2015 to secede from the rest of Scotland in favour of becoming either a Crown Dependency or a British Overseas Territory, as a means of achieving greater autonomy for the Shetland Isles.

 

The SNP only holds one seat on the council - the other 21 are independents. So it wasn't the SNP that gave the greenlight, it was led by independents.

 

The channel islands have 2 islands which are  'Crown dependencies' - self governing islands that are possessed by the UK. Internationally, the dependencies are considered "territories for which the United Kingdom is responsible", rather than sovereign states.

 

As the Crown dependencies are not sovereign states, the power to pass legislation affecting the islands ultimately rests with the government of the United Kingdom (though this is rarely done without the consent of the dependencies, and the right to do so is disputed). However, they each have their own legislative assembly, with the power to legislate on many local matters with the assent of the Crown.

 

The territorial waters were purchased by the Isle of Man Government from the United Kingdom Government in 1991. The Territorial Sea Committee (TSC) is a cross-governmental committee which was set up to manage the Isle of Man's interests following the purchase. Purchased for £800,000, the ownership of the Territorial Sea has resulted in the Island collecting more than £2 million in capital fees and currently receives approximately £350,000 annually for cables and pipelines passing through the area and also from oil and gas exploration licences.

 

To summarize, The waters would belong to the Crown, and the oil and gas reserves would be lost to an independent Scotland.

 

Up to a 12 mile limit.

Go read maritime law.

[RuamRudy]

12 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

So I did some more research.

 

An enclave is not what the shetlands would be, as an enclave is a territory (or a part of one) that is entirely surrounded by the territory of one other state. The Shetlands woould become either a Crown dependency, a British overseas territory, or an independent nation.

 

Seeing as only 8% of Shetlanders want complete independence, a movement called Wir Shetland was launched in October 2015 to secede from the rest of Scotland in favour of becoming either a Crown Dependency or a British Overseas Territory, as a means of achieving greater autonomy for the Shetland Isles.

 

The SNP only holds one seat on the council - the other 21 are independents. So it wasn't the SNP that gave the greenlight, it was led by independents.

 

The channel islands have 2 islands which are  'Crown dependencies' - self governing islands that are possessed by the UK. Internationally, the dependencies are considered "territories for which the United Kingdom is responsible", rather than sovereign states.

 

As the Crown dependencies are not sovereign states, the power to pass legislation affecting the islands ultimately rests with the government of the United Kingdom (though this is rarely done without the consent of the dependencies, and the right to do so is disputed). However, they each have their own legislative assembly, with the power to legislate on many local matters with the assent of the Crown.

 

The territorial waters were purchased by the Isle of Man Government from the United Kingdom Government in 1991. The Territorial Sea Committee (TSC) is a cross-governmental committee which was set up to manage the Isle of Man's interests following the purchase. Purchased for £800,000, the ownership of the Territorial Sea has resulted in the Island collecting more than £2 million in capital fees and currently receives approximately £350,000 annually for cables and pipelines passing through the area and also from oil and gas exploration licences.

 

To summarize, The waters would belong to the Crown, and the oil and gas reserves would be lost to an independent Scotland.

These are the waters where the oil and gas is all gone and, were they to remain Scottish, would be worthless? At least, that's how the other oft repeated mantra goes. 

[Rookiescot]

So what have we learned so far?

English Nationalist Brexiteers know nothing about Scottish history or culture.

English Nationalist Brexiteers know nothing about how Scots feel about their English counterparts, family, friends and neighbours.  

English Nationalist Brexiteers cant actually argue with their own reasons for why a country wants to be independent.

English Nationalist Brexiteers think everyone in Scotland hates them but cant actually figure out why.

English Nationalist Brexiteers dont understand emojis.

English Nationalist Brexiteers feel the need to keep Scotland but at the same time want rid of Scotland.

English Nationalist Brexiteers only want democracy on their own terms.

Same time tomorrow chaps?

Have a good evening ????

[2530Ubon]

15 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Up to a 12 mile limit.

Go read maritime law.

So I read some maritime law too - Who knew Thai Visa could be so educational!

 

Contiguous Zone

States may also establish a contiguous zone from the outer edge of the territorial seas to a maximum of 24 nautical miles from the baseline.

 

Exclusive Economic Zone

States may claim an EEZ that extends 200 nautical miles from the baseline. In this zone, a coastal State has the exclusive right to exploit or conserve any resources found within the water, on the sea floor, or under the sea floor’s subsoil. These resources encompass both living resources, such as fish, and non-living resources, such as oil and natural gas.

Continental Shelf

 

The LOSC allows a State to conduct economic activities for a distance of 200 nautical miles from the baseline, or the continental margin where it extends beyond 200 nautical miles.

 

So the Shetlands could claim 200 nautical miles. The Isle of man is a fantastic example of a state purchasing the 12 mile territorial from the Crown, and leaving the 200nm (nautical miles) to the Crown.

Edited November 30, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[NanLaew]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So what have we learned so far?

English Nationalist Brexiteers know nothing about Scottish history or culture.

English Nationalist Brexiteers know nothing about how Scots feel about their English counterparts, family, friends and neighbours.  

English Nationalist Brexiteers cant actually argue with their own reasons for why a country wants to be independent.

English Nationalist Brexiteers think everyone in Scotland hates them but cant actually figure out why.

English Nationalist Brexiteers dont understand emojis.

English Nationalist Brexiteers feel the need to keep Scotland but at the same time want rid of Scotland.

English Nationalist Brexiteers only want democracy on their own terms.

Same time tomorrow chaps?

Have a good evening ????

 

Goodnight rookie. Get some sleep while (you think) you're ahead.

[RuamRudy]

35 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

So I read some maritime law too - Who knew Thai Visa could be so educational!

 

Contiguous Zone

States may also establish a contiguous zone from the outer edge of the territorial seas to a maximum of 24 nautical miles from the baseline.

 

Exclusive Economic Zone

States may claim an EEZ that extends 200 nautical miles from the baseline. In this zone, a coastal State has the exclusive right to exploit or conserve any resources found within the water, on the sea floor, or under the sea floor’s subsoil. These resources encompass both living resources, such as fish, and non-living resources, such as oil and natural gas.

Continental Shelf

 

The LOSC allows a State to conduct economic activities for a distance of 200 nautical miles from the baseline, or the continental margin where it extends beyond 200 nautical miles.

 

So the Shetlands could claim 200 nautical miles. The Isle of man is a fantastic example of a state purchasing the 12 mile territorial from the Crown, and leaving the 200nm (nautical miles) to the Crown.

 

The distance between Shetland and Duncansby Head is about 140 miles. I assume that an independent Scotland will need to relinquish claim  of 60 miles of Scottish mainland too? Personally, I would hand over Wick, but I quite like John o' Groats.

[Surelynot]

1 hour ago, clarky cat said:

not read the thread but as an Englishman I hope they get their independence one day, and a US/Mexico style wall goes up

Leave a little gap in the wall for me...... I love Pitlochry.

[2530Ubon]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

The distance between Shetland and Duncansby Head is about 140 miles. I assume that an independent Scotland will need to relinquish claim  of 60 miles of Scottish mainland too? Personally, I would hand over Wick, but I quite like John o' Groats.

I have an answer! The Shetlands have around 50% of the oil reserves in it's waters;

 

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-08-26/these-tiny-islands-may-hold-key-scotland-s-independence

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, 2530Ubon said:

I have an answer! The Shetlands have around 50% of the oil reserves in it's waters;

 

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-08-26/these-tiny-islands-may-hold-key-scotland-s-independence

 

But my point was that, even if there was a desire for Shetland to secede from an independent Scotland, which would be their right should they choose it, you don't simply put a compass in the middle of the islands and draw a circle 200 miles wide and claim all that lies within it as belonging to Shetland.