Alcoholic Drinks

[Yohan]

What is your opinion about drinking alcohol? You like it? Everyday? Are you drinking alone, or only together with other people? sometimes drunken? Or you drink just a little bit?

Do you think, alcohol is helping you to start a good communication with somebody? Or do you think, we can do it without....What might happen to a restaurant or bar, if they cannot sell alcohol anymore?

Alcohol is a big problem everywhere in Europe, but also in Asia, there are millions of alcoholics and this is a problem for many families. It destroys family life, but nobody really cares about.

Others might argue, it does not only destroy, it makes people also happy....

I personally do not drink any alcohol, this includes beer and wine, I am always on level = zero.

However not to drink at all seems not to be appreciated by most people. An absolut non-alcoholic is rather disliked and it does not pay off...

What do you think about?

Johann

[chonabot]

hic!!

[Begs]

It is true, Alcohol is a big problem, if it was not Taxed by Governments it would be illegal for sure.

If i made a pill that had the same effect as Alcoholic drinks and i decided to manufacture and sell it, i would be arrested and i would be Jailed for life in a country like Thailand, because it would be a Class A drug, same class as Heroin. A drug that effects people the way Alcohol does could not be put in any other class.

It causes many many Deaths a year, directly and indirectly, from Alcoholic diseases to Drunken drivers, a large percentage of Traffic fatalities have Alcohol involved. Serious assaults, rapes, Murders, vandalism, all these crimes have a high percentage of Alcohol involvement.

So yes, it is a dangerous substance, but governments will never ban it, ( as they would my pill ), cos they just make too much money from it.

[RamdomChances]

Yohan

There is a big jump between "Yes, I drink a lot everyday" and "Little, sometimes, not much"

You are not giving people much room in between.

Most people are not alcholics or "T total" (refrain from alcholic drink), but some where in between.

[Connor McCloud]

But without it ugly birds would stay virgins

I've never gone to bed with an ugly women , but I've certainly woken up with a few

[stroll]

I agree with begs, all drugs should be made equally accessible.

Alcohol is fun, specially having the odd sip of Maekong while wading through some of the less digestible longwinded posts in this section of the forum.

[konangrit]

This is a loaded question, but some valid points for non-drinkers. I enjoy drinking alcohol, as do many others. Do I sometimes drink too much? For sure. Am I an alcoholic? No. Do I have a problem when I'm out with non-drinkers? I don't, do others? Maybe, but I've never noticed that.

I'm sorry, but to compare alcohol addiction to heroin addiction is ridiculous. The percentage of alcohol drinkers who become addicted is very small. The percentage of people who take heroin who become addicted is very high. If you wish to disagree with this I will be more than happy to debate the matter.

Anyway, to get back to the original question, I enjoy drinking. Should anyone who doesn't like drinking have the right to tell me that I can't drink? I won't answer that as I'm sure my post has made it obvious which my point of view is. Bizarrely enough that point of view applies to heroin too. I don't believe that anyone should force their morals on anyone else unless they are hurting another person. I will refrain myself from extranuating my contradictory views on that as I'm afraid that I will take this post off-topic.

[konangrit]

Sorry Begs, after re-reading your post I think I got the wrong end of the stick.

It causes many many Deaths a year, directly and indirectly, from Alcoholic diseases to Drunken drivers, a large percentage of Traffic fatalities have Alcohol involved. Serious assaults, rapes, Murders, vandalism, all these crimes have a high percentage of Alcohol involvement.

I can't disagree with that

I would edit my original post, but I think a lot of the points that were made are still valid, although I would like to undirect them from your' post, Begs.

Even though the percentage of people that get addicted to a drug (alcohol,heroin,crack,nicotine, or even gambling) varies, the majority of people do not become addicted. Should the majority be banned from their enjoyment because of the minority which do have a problem?

[Up2U]

I had a few beers last night. Tomorrow I will be listening to the Bastards and will probably have one or two more.

It may then be two or three weeks before I have another.

Working for many years in the Middle East and Libya, where alcohol is forbidden (although readily available in most places) I frequently went many months without touching a drop. I, like most social drinkers, can happily drink or not drink as the circumstances arise. In other words, we are NOT addicted.

There are unfortunate people whose body chemistry, or other cause, renders them susceptible to addiction, but this is a minority of drinkers.

Regrettably with heroin, cocaine and other chemical potions, addiction is almost a given.

(Yes, I know ethyl alcohol is also a chemical, but you know what I mean)

[ProThaiExpat]

Yohan: Your poll doesn't cover the issue of alcoholics who don't drink anymore.

Most who are not an admitted alcoholic are not an authority on alcohol addicton and their opinions should be weighed accordingly.

My guess is there are more members of alocholics annonymous than narcotics annonymous. My guess is there are more people who are practicing alocholics than drug addicts. I just don't have the stats.

Non-practicing alcoholics stay away from heavy drinkers, not for fear of following suit, but for the degraded conversation that occurs after a couple of drinks.

Anyone who takes a drink every day should answer the 20 questions provided by Alcoholics Annonymous to see if they indeed have an alcohol related problem.

Alcoholism is a cunning and baffling disease that is rarely addressed successfully without help.

What few realize is that the physical addiction to alcohol is relatively easy to get rid of, as opposed to hard drug addiction, where there is more physical dependency on the drug of choice, however, the mental aspects of alcohol addiction are quite severe and take many years of therapy to overcome. Alcohol is a drug.

PM me if you want further discussion with me in a more private setting.

[stroll]

I'm sorry, but to compare alcohol addiction to heroin addiction is ridiculous. The percentage of alcohol drinkers who become addicted is very small. The percentage of people who take heroin who become addicted is very high. If you wish to disagree with this I will be more than happy to debate the matter.

Alcohol addiction might not be so obvious at an early stage and is contained within society, being drunk is acceptable to most people after all, and urge for the next 'fix' takes longer to develope, but it is an addictive hard drug nontheless.

Just look at the state of people who are drunk, very drunk, and very very drunk. At first different, then much more aggressive and at saturation level very similar to a heroin addict. On the whole perhaps even worse.

Having said that, most people manage pretty well with having a drink (or two) now and then (and a few in between).

I have 'odd' views on the subject as well.

[konangrit]

Although I have never been addicted to alcohol, I have had family members who have been. But from my experinces I agree with you ProThai that alcoholism is generally more of a mental addiction than a physical one. The same goes for most illegal drugs excluding heroin, crack cocaine and ocasionally cocaine, although this is widely misreported as being a highly addictive narcotic. The majority of users do not become physically addicted to cocaine, although a great many do become mentally addicted. Whether a mental or physical addiction is worse I don't know, both are both major problems for the individual and others, but I would just like to clear up a few misconceptions.

[Begs]

I'm sorry, but to compare alcohol addiction to heroin addiction is ridiculous. The percentage of alcohol drinkers who become addicted is very small. The percentage of people who take heroin who become addicted is very high. If you wish to disagree with this I will be more than happy to debate the matter.

I agree with you there, but my comparison is really about the effects of alcohol.

If i produced a Pill that could have the same effect as drinking alcohol it would be a Class 'A' drug, or Class '1' dependant on where you live. Just the statistics of drunken drivers causing deaths and the violence fuelled by Alcohol on any Friday night in any Town in Uk would be enough to get me a life sentence for producing such a dangerous drug, the fact that some people do not take so much of the drug and therefore do not affect other peoples lives would not sway the Judge from giving me a life sentence.

What other class would you put my pills in?Society would demand that i was thrown in Jail for putting their children in Danger.

Yet governments all over the world continue to swell their coffers to the tune of Billions of dollars a year in taxing a drug that takes such a heavy toll in Human misery and Human lives. Just because Alcohol is put in Pretty Bottles and given different tastes and different names does not detract from the FACT that it is a dangerous drug, and does cause many many social problems the world over.

My brother was attacked by a drunk with a broken bottle, the attacker did not even remember doing it when he came round, i call that a dangerous mind altering substance. And just look at the statistics for road accidents that have Alcohol involved, they are available online.

USA Year 2000 41,945 Road traffic Fatalities, 13,050 where alcohol related, thats 31.1%.

USA year 2001, 42,116 Road traffic fatalities, 12,864 where alcohol related, 30.5%.

25,914 Alcohol related traffic deaths in 2 years in the USA would suggest that people do not have much control as far as Alcohol is concerned.

C'mon boys, if i was making and selling a drug that had the same consequences for society, and i was caught at Bangkok airport smuggling it, you would be screaming for me to be hung or shot, if you think alcohol is so cool, get your Thai gf Drunk and piss her off, then judge it's coolness for yourselves

[konangrit]

Yohan: Your poll doesn't cover the issue of alcoholics who don't drink anymore.

It also does not cover binge drinkers. I would guess (with no foundations but my own assumptions) that most drinkers on this forum do not drink every day, but do drink a lot on the 1 or 2 times/week that they do drink. This is generaly the case in the UK, and it seems that a high percentage of posters on this forum are from the UK.

Whilst I realise that alcoholism may be a big problem in the US and maybe Europe, I feel that the culture of binge drinking in the UK is going to be a far bigger health problem for the UK at least a few years down the line. Unfortunately it is intrenched in English culture now, along with the yobbish behaviour that accompaninies it. Just one of the many reasons that I have forsaken my homeland

[Begs]

Sorry Begs, after re-reading your post I think I got the wrong end of the stick.

I am sorry also, haha, but our posts crossed, oh well, valid points all round.

Cheers.

[stroll]

Konangrit:

Alcoholism becomes physically addictive at quite a late stage, and with some drugs the distinction blurs, if you suddenly stop taking cocaine for example (not talking from experience) you will have withdrawal symptoms, strong enough that you won't 'function' for a while.

We don't really disagree, it is a matter of pointing at distinctions, as you rightly say.

Crossed witha couple of posts but I let it stay.

Edited June 18, 2004 by stroll

[konangrit]

Hehe, ok Begs, our posts crossed again, so I've deleted most of this

Stroll, yes you are right, after extended use the line between mental and physical addiction can become blurred. I would even say that after extended use a mental addiction would become a physical one. All down to the individual, though. I'm sure that in the not too distant future we will be reading about "the addiction gene" in some of the tabloids. Only a matter of time, and I think this is probably the case with most addicts whatever their vice is.

[Wolfie]

Great thread, good discussion and some very valid points.

Although i do think theres a little bit of over reacting and over dramatising going on.

[Begs]

Great thread, good discussion and some very valid points.

Although i do think theres a little bit of over reacting and over dramatising going on.

[stroll]

Not really, I like my drinks, too, but in a discussion one should acknowledge the dangers of what one is playing with.

[chanchao]

> There is a big jump between "Yes, I drink a lot everyday" and

> "Little, sometimes, not much"

> You are not giving people much room in between.

I agree. I took the liberty to add an option, the one that includes me. I drink nothing during the week, but lots on Friday OR Saturday night.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Yohan]

Thank you for all replies. It is true, my poll is far away from a perfect made score, considering any aspect of life, like people, who were heavy drinkers before, or what is between much and little consumption..... It is incomplete, because I was never drinking any alcohol at all...

I made this poll and thread for other reasons, I want to ask for your opinion, if you think, that a non-drinker is an outsider - Do you think, it is a disadvantage, not to drink alcohol as man, when meeting people? By my own experience people belittle you as weak person. And so I have very little understandings for accidents, illness, also family problems, which are related to alcoholism.

Johann

[konangrit]

> There is a big jump between "Yes, I drink a lot everyday" and

> "Little, sometimes, not much"

> You are not giving people much room in between.

I agree. I took the liberty to add an option, the one that includes me. I drink nothing during the week, but lots on Friday OR Saturday night.

Cheers,

Chanchao

Thanx Chanchao, I've finally been able to vote

[chanchao]

> However not to drink at all seems not to be appreciated by

> most people. An absolut non-alcoholic is rather disliked

> and it does not pay off...

I think it's only not appreciated when people don't drink AND remain a boring dickless git at the same time. People who don't drink but still manage to have fun are OK by me.

I actually think it may be MORE accepted in Thailand when you don't drink. Ordering something non-alcoholic is not likely to raise any eyebrows no matter what the establishment. Like you could even go to a strip bar / go go bar and order a hot or iced coffee, green tea, orange juice, etc.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[konangrit]

Thank you for all replies. It is true, my poll is far away from a perfect made score, considering any aspect of life, like people, who were heavy drinkers before, or what is between much and little consumption..... It is incomplete, because I was never drinking any alcohol at all...

I made this poll and thread for other reasons, I want to ask for your opinion, if you think, that a non-drinker is an outsider - Do you think, it is a disadvantage, not to drink alcohol as man, when meeting people? By my own experience people belittle you as weak person. And so I have very little understandings for accidents, illness, also family problems, which are related to alcoholism.

Johann

To answer your question, Yohan,

Personally I do not belittle someone who does not drink, in my circles I know of no-one that does. I have more admiration for someone that does or does not do what they like without a care for what someone else thinks. However I do think that a non-drinker could be at a disadvantage when it comes to socialising, whether that be work related or purely on a personal level. As a drinker I know that it is not much fun to be around intoxicated people when I'm sober. Is it the same for teetotal people?

[dutch]

Many of the members who know me, will laugh about the fact that I am reacting in a thread about alcohol.

Yohan,I see in many of your posts,continiously the remark that MOST people don't like non-alcohol drinking people.

I stopped about 18-20 years ago ( I was quite a social drinker), because my wife doesn't drink alcohol and I don't like to drink alone.Also our life at that time,was not involved with bars and restaurants too much(having a little boy at home).The last 5 years I do have a normal social life with business meetings-expat meetings/restaurants/hotels/golf/friends.

In all these years up till now , there has never ever been anybody avoiding me,disliking me or whatever, because of that!

A naughty remark;may be they don't like you for other reasons and you think it is the non-alcohol thing

To be very honest,I do have the feeling that some of them are a liitle bit jalours

[thaihome]

I made this poll and thread for other reasons, I want to ask for your opinion, if you think, that a non-drinker is an outsider - Do you think, it is a disadvantage, not to drink alcohol as man, when meeting people? By my own experience people belittle you as weak person.

If you come across in a drinking situation as you do in your posts here, then your attitude is the problem. I know many people, both alcoholics on the wagon and people such as you that don't enjoy it, that don’t drink.

They just quietly buy a coke, even while buying a round for everyone else.

TH – adult child of an alcoholic

[stroll]

I made this poll and thread for other reasons, I want to ask for your opinion, if you think, that a non-drinker is an outsider - Do you think, it is a disadvantage, not to drink alcohol as man, when meeting people? By my own experience people belittle you as weak person. And so I have very little understandings for accidents, illness, also family problems, which are related to alcoholism.

Johann

stroll, your troll says:

People who don't drink at all do often feel left out , pushed and not wanted, i. e. as the evening progresses, they will feel more out of place.

I feel like that when I don't drink, like when I need to drive later, or when I walk into company that has had a few already, irritating morons, aren't they?

But I am forgiven, since on other occasions I will join in.

For me personally it is not a problem when others don't drink or smoke, I do less of it in their company. It is only when people tell me I shouldn't drink, that an argument might start.

So, on that basis, we could actually sit at the same table together, although this is unlikely to happen.

[Windy]

How do you classify an Alcoholic? I drink 15 x 375ml x5% cans of beer every day, which I am sure some people would say was Alcoholic, however I work 6 nights a week 8-10 hours a night, never late for work/never hungover/never any sick days off. I think the term Alcoholic is relative to individual people.

Yohan asked what would happen to a bar if it stopped selling alcohol, to me it would no longer be a bar

[Yohan]

May I ask, who was editing my poll?

and

How can you edit/change/add extra lines in a poll?

It might be useful too, to add a line between much and little....

but I do not know, how I can edit it.

Johann