Leaders to push Brexit trade talks beyond Sunday deadline

[Baerboxer]

13 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

One must wonder what was said between the two yesterday to continue talks.

 

We all know that competition rules and fishing are the two main sticking points. Boris isn't going to give up 'sovereignty' and the EU are not going to allow the UK to undercut them at every business opportunity.

 

Fishing seems like it's only a political point for votes from fishing villages and towns. It's not even worth a billion a year to any of the EU nations - or the UK.

 

The EU and the UK parliaments need to vote on the deal, but before they do any voting, they need to read and scrutinize the text. There are only 17 days to go. 4 of those days are weekend days. Any talk of a deal now is just impossible.

 

Fishing has become one of those "devil in the detail minor issues" that won't go away. The EU demand full access for it's fleets to British waters, in exchange for allowing British fishermen to sell their catches in the EU. But will not allow British vessels to fish in EU waters. Does that seem fair to you?

 

Only France in the EU won't compromise on this. It's fishermen have stated to they would be happy to compromise on catches, but would seek government compensation. Macron won't bargain and sees doing so as a loss of face. One of his key strategies is to show what a great world power he's made France again. Leader of the EU, self appointed boss of Lebanon etc etc. All designed to help divert attention in France from the serious dissent about some of his bills, pension reform, policing etc. All political and not economic driven. The French fishermen I saw interviewed are quite reasonable but won't accept Macron giving up their access to British waters without compensation. And that to him would be a display of weakness on two fronts.

 

The level playing field, demanded by Germany the most, is to try and avoid what Germany really fears. It's businesses facing real competition. 

 

Of course, both sides know what the other really wants, and is probably acceptable to them. But neither is willing to give everything and neither wants to give a little. Stalemate. Hard to break.

[Chomper Higgot]

42 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

About the same as the EU's it's the best deal, take it or leave it.

 

Guess you've never been a professional negotiator.

Not quite the same.

 

The EU’s ‘it’s the best deal, take it or leave it’ is an open ended offer.

 

Johnson’s ‘back down by a Sunday night or we’ll walk’ is a threat with a definitive time attached.

 

The EU’s offer remains open, Johnson’s threat turned out to be hollow.

 

Your guess, as so often, is groundless.

[joecoolfrog]

1 hour ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  We have been having four years  of talks , there needs to come a point where you realise both sides will not come to an agreement , sticking points with no solution .

  Need to just accept that and move on , or will there be endless talks that will go on forever ? 

Neither side wants a no deal or to be seen to have lost ,so talks will continue until a fudge is agreed.

[joecoolfrog]

33 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Not quite the same.

 

The EU’s ‘it’s the best deal, take it or leave it’ is an open ended offer.

 

Johnson’s ‘back down by a Sunday night or we’ll walk’ is a threat with a definitive time attached.

 

The EU’s offer remains open, Johnson’s threat turned out to be hollow.

 

Your guess, as so often, is groundless.

In my opinion both sides are as bad as one another , courting disaster when 98% of a deal is agreed is ridiculous gamesmenship.

[Chivas]

2 hours ago, shackleton said:

You will need to ask one of the over 17 million Brexiteers 

As I mentioned I want a deal

I am sure there are Brexiteers on here who can answer your question 

 

lol doubt it.....the Brexit vote was purely down to immigration and appalling Johnny Foreigner but that has been long long forgotten. Everything else was a complete lie as we now know

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

In my opinion both sides are as bad as one another , courting disaster when 98% of a deal is agreed is ridiculous gamesmenship.

Is that “98%” of topics or of total value? 

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Please do , please give more information about "shared terrorist information binned " ?

I though that would come under the U.N security Council jurisdiction or Interpol .

There will be some limited exchange in case of a no deal scenario, but it will be far from the level of detail and cooperation that’s currently possible with the Schengen database and Europol. 

https://www.policeprofessional.com/news/government-must-take-urgent-action-to-ensure-police-access-to-eu-crime-data/

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54978865

[puipuitom]

Just 2 weeks to go....  ( with many thanks to Jos Collignon )

Edited December 14, 2020 by puipuitom

[RayC]

52 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

There will be some limited exchange in case of a no deal scenario, but it will be far from the level of detail and cooperation that’s currently possible with the Schengen database and Europol. 

https://www.policeprofessional.com/news/government-must-take-urgent-action-to-ensure-police-access-to-eu-crime-data/

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54978865

Another example of the problems associated with a 'No Deal' outcome. I have posted this link before but for ease of reference, here it is again.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/research-papers/what-would-no-deal-mean/

 

It is a big report, but even a superficial skim through it would reveal that the negatives far outweigh the positives.

 

However, supporters of a 'No deal' Brexit refuse to accept research based evidence.

[Hi from France]

8 hours ago, wombat said:

So the Democratic voters will be denied ?

do you realize what will happen if there is a referendum on either the Brexit withdrawal agreement signed last January or before the would-be FTA agreement?

 

Have you read the polls?

 

The Brits want to stay in the EU now

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Hi from France

[vinny41]

8 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

do you realize what will happen if there is a referendum on either the Brexit withdrawal agreement signed last January or before the would-be FTA agreement?

 

Have you read the polls?

 

The Brits want to stay in the EU now

 

 

 

How many people in person did they contact answer zero

How many people took part in these polls  answer between 1525 and 1589

How is the funder of these surveys answer The mail on Sunday

Is the poll a pile of pooh answer Yes

[dunroaming]

Of course there will be a deal. There was always going to be a deal.  That is why Boris can't keep to his word and walk away with no deal.  They just have to find some way of making it look like both sides have won something out of the whole fiasco.

[from the home of CC]

looks to me like you're both posers lol..

[Loiner]

5 hours ago, Chivas said:

There are still these Brexiteer buffoons screaming walk away completely disregarding that 98% of the deal has been agreed. Absolute clowns

Perhaps these roasters can tell us all here to whom we're actually going to sell all these fish to !

 

Nuclear agreements, Security information shared etc etc all thrown in the bin for some mackeral that the Brits rarely eat in the first place is just pure insanity

 

Quite comical reading a Spanish forum with people literally crying that roaming will be end. I'm sat there thinking these people have no idea of whats coming in the real world if they think mobile roaming is important in the overall picture

98%? There was the Irishman quoting 97% only yesterday and somebody else said 95% during the week. What has been agreed today?

It's a pity the actual negotiations are secret and they don't publish any details of the percentages they quote.

 

These figures are reminiscent of (and probably pulled from the same orifice) as the Thai government railways and airport construction completion progress claims. 

[soalbundy]

5 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

The level playing field, demanded by Germany the most, is to try and avoid what Germany really fears. It's businesses facing real competition. 

 

How can the UK compete against Germany? Is there some industrial niche in the UK that we have forgotten about?

[Hi from France]

3 hours ago, soalbundy said:

How can the UK compete against Germany? Is there some industrial niche in the UK that we have forgotten about?

against Germany the UK cannot, but these last decades it did better than France, as a manufacturing/industrial nation

 

Until Brexit, of course. Honda confirmed that manufacturing at its Swindon will close down, Jaguar Land Rover is in shutdown now (but has ambitious development plans see below)

 

 

if you like newspapers with CAPITALS for a niche clientele

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.. and this comes from a specialized UK Brexit tabloid: today you can also read

[Loiner]

How does the EU support massive state aid to a car plant in Slovenia but still wants to prevent the UK from state aid to our industries?

It will probably close soon anyway because nobody is buying the new LR Defender.

[RayC]

39 minutes ago, Loiner said:

How does the EU support massive state aid to a car plant in Slovenia but still wants to prevent the UK from state aid to our industries?

It will probably close soon anyway because nobody is buying the new LR Defender.

There you go: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_706

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

How does the EU support massive state aid to a car plant in Slovenia but still wants to prevent the UK from state aid to our industries?

Simple : the EU doesn't want to prevent state aid. Facing the USA and above all China the EU will have a more and more offensive industrial policy. 

 

The clever move would have been to associate with the UE (or of course to stay in the EU and make the decisions with us).

 

You know the "stronger together" thing?

 

 

 

Sadly, the UK chose to go out on its own. This "Global Britain" project really comes at the wrong time in history.

 

Wrong move, wrong timing.

 

Instead of being 'independent' the UK will be 'Lebanized'

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

How does the EU support massive state aid to a car plant in Slovenia but still wants to prevent the UK from state aid to our industries?

It will probably close soon anyway because nobody is buying the new LR Defender.

Yes JLR. Attwood a leading Brexiteer as well.  Who would have thought it.  Maybe he's been talking to Dyson ????

[Loiner]

10 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Simple : the EU doesn't want to prevent state aid. 

 

 

We've always known the EU only likes aid to go to it's own pet projects. It really doesn't like the UK doing it though, right on the EU doorstep.

[Loiner]

9 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Yes JLR. Attwood a leading Brexiteer as well.  Who would have thought it.  Maybe he's been talking to Dyson ????

Attwood JLR??? Brexiteer???

[dunroaming]

20 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Attwood JLR??? Brexiteer???

 

JLR make the Defender.  Attwood owns JLR.  The Defender is being made in Slovakia after he jumped ship from the UK.  As  I said he is a leading Brexiteer as is Dyson who also moved his business to Singapore.

[Loiner]

6 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

 

JLR make the Defender.  Attwood owns JLR.  The Defender is being made in Slovakia after he jumped ship from the UK.  As  I said he is a leading Brexiteer as is Dyson who also moved his business to Singapore.

Got me there -  I thought JLR was owned by Tata, a bunch of Indians.

[NeoDinosaw]

18 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What happened to the ‘we’ll walk bit’?

He lied   (as always)

[NeoDinosaw]

16 hours ago, soalbundy said:

. It's the end of Boris.

Let's hope so !!

[NeoDinosaw]

12 hours ago, shackleton said:

You will need to ask one of the over 17 million Brexiteers 

 

Please stop banging on about the 14 million voters.  They are only 37.44 of the electorate.  Their majority was less than 4% of those who voted.

In any normal organisation, to change the rules and regulation so drastically would demand a majority of over 66 %

The UK sticks to the slavishly first-past-the-post  system which is why it is always in a mess.  PR is desperately needed.

[NeoDinosaw]

14 hours ago, bannork said:

Difficult because he's dead in a ditch 

I wish he was !!

[NeoDinosaw]

10 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

In my opinion both sides are as bad as one another , courting disaster when 98% of a deal is agreed is ridiculous gamesmenship.

what the EU wants is perfectly reasonable.  The problem is that Bonkin' Boris has persuaded many people that id demands loosing soverignty. It does no such thing !

 

What the bare-faced liar wants is no-deal  so that he can rush to the bottom , tear up workers rights etc.

 

As a Brit - I hope that the EU sticks to its guns to save our population from the destruction that Boris craves.

[vinny41]

4 hours ago, Loiner said:

Got me there -  I thought JLR was owned by Tata, a bunch of Indians.

Jaguar Landrover also thinks its owned by Tata Motors according to  this website

Jaguar Land Rover is a West Midlands automotive company, a wholly owned subsiduary of India's Tata Motors.

updated 

06:47, 12 DEC 2020

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/all-about/jaguar-land-rover

Haven't got a clue who Attwood is