Enjoying Life In The West

[geevlus]

After spending most of my twenties spending my time between the UK and Thailand I've come to the conclusion that for me, life in the west is best. I used to agonise over getting back to Thailand and really hated being in the UK when I returned home. My most recent trip to Los was for a month, a duty really as wifey wanted to see family and by the second week I wanted to go home to England, other than for family visits my Thai wife seems to be coming around to my way of thinking. I suppose the big question is - Why the shift in thinking? I don't know really, I'm starting to realise a life of pursuing meaningful goals seems to be more attainable in the West. Anybody beg to differ?

[Prakanong]

My position is not the same as your but I can relate to it.

Before I lived in Thailand and after I left I used to agonise over my next visit to Thailand - I used to book the same day to return as I arrived home in England or Europe.

In 2004/5/6 I spent 3/4/5 months in Thailand.

Now I am living in Singapore I could go every month if I wanted but chose not to. I will go for a long weekend at the end of the month. Might do some charity work there in October and will visit for Christmas and NY but its not the over-riding pasion for me now it once was.

Still love the place and will continue to visit but not as often and for not as long - it may change if I return to Europe and am not in Asia - I do not know the reasns my passion for it has waned recently, just can not put my finger exactly on it.

[Loz]

maybe it the last response raises the question: are you excited about leaving your home country or are you excited about coming to Thailand? I think its a legitimate question...

I know I am glad to be away from England but, I don't think Thailand is the only place I could settle. I am sure I will find more as I continue my travels...That said. I still plan to keep a home in Korat.

[kmart]

After spending most of my twenties spending my time between the UK and Thailand I've come to the conclusion that for me, life in the west is best. I used to agonise over getting back to Thailand and really hated being in the UK when I returned home. My most recent trip to Los was for a month, a duty really as wifey wanted to see family and by the second week I wanted to go home to England, other than for family visits my Thai wife seems to be coming around to my way of thinking. I suppose the big question is - Why the shift in thinking? I don't know really, I'm starting to realise a life of pursuing meaningful goals seems to be more attainable in the West. Anybody beg to differ?

Agree. Its difficult to make long term plans here.

[JacksonGlurk]

...I suppose the big question is - Why the shift in thinking?...

Because you've grown and matured. You've developed real goals and now value concrete accomplishments. Neither of those things play much of a part in life in Thailand, which is why the place appeals so much to untethered, western drifters.

[GuestHouse]

I often comment that we are thoroughly enjoying our life away from Thailand, but that is not to say I/we don't enjoy going back to Thailand for holidays (so long as its not all our holidays).

When I ask my Thai wife about where she would like to live, she would prefer the UK, over anywhere, she earns more money working there and has more options than she does here or indeed had in Thailand.

The seven ages of man comes to mind.

If, like me and my wife, you are at the age when you want to busy in your life with your work/career, have ambitions or a set of interests that cannot be met in Thailand then yes of course Thailand is almost certainly a restriction.

Then at least we/you have a choice. As I remind myself, we are extremely privileged, to have that choice many do not.

[lannarebirth]

Thailand is not a place for people with long/medium term career ambitions, nor is it a place for a proper post secondary education. That said, when you've done all that and got it out of your system for the most part, it is a wonderful place to live.

[dumspero]

It's a false choice to think about staying in Thailand or returning to your country in the west.

There are countless opportunities internationally for challenging and financially rewarding careers, with many opportunities in East Asia and the greater Pacific rim area.

Even Thailand has opportunites for great careers although as with everything it certainly helps to get a sound formal education and professional credentials before heading out.

It would be interesting to get a better sense of how many expats working in Thailand are the drifter types referred to and how many have decent careers going.

[geevlus]

It's funny how an earlier poster said I've matured (I'm a young 29). A lot/most/all of my wifes husbands seem to have an infantile obsession with Thailand and pride themselves in flaunting photographs of mini - mansions in Issan. These guys in the most part are TWICE my age - I always thought age/wisdom coincide. No doubt some are of the understanding that they don't actually own diddleysquat over there but they're willing to spend their last years enjoying holidays there and are fully aware of the situation regarding who actually OWNS the place. But others, especially those in middle years seem to be under the illusion that it's theirs, their life etc. Quite often these guys live in Social Housing and earn £6.00 per hour here in the UK (as I do at the moment), and at " at every oppertunity ..................................out comes the photograph album of the house ,every angle, every room, every member of the "family", and of course the rest of the village lounging around the place enjoying the delights of the "tamboon" or whatevers it's called. Sure my wife owns a house over there, she's older than me (late thirties) and owned it before she met me (self - financed), and she may even sell it and build a new in the near future, but you won't see me running around showing the place to every tom dick and harry, what are these guys thinking?

[qwertz]

LOS is and always was a great place for a long, leisurely holiday. However, for the older, more cautious types like me, it just doesn't match the rock solid security of my adopted home. When I made my expat decision some 18 years ago I broke off all connections to England apart from my friends and family and I've made a better life in Germany. I'm due soon for a pension and could retire if I wanted but I won't move permanently to a place like LOS unless it can guarantee me a quiet life free of hassles. I'm noting all your inputs while I consider the options.

[sgunn65]

An interesting post.

In February I watched a film called Venus. It stars Peter O'Toole and is about getting old. That film messed with my head. I am 48 have a good career, a decent income and a nice flat in a good part of London. Until I saw this film I was ambitious, worked very hard in a very stressful job and felt validated by my career.

After watching the film I realised I had maybe 30 years left and would be spending the first half of them working, building up my pension and assets so that the second half would be more comfortable! That was it! I put the flat on the market, resigned my job and will be splitting my time between London and Bkk.

And I feel alternatively scared and free but I do think that you have one shot. So go for it. I dont want to run to stand still, pay £7.95 (550baht) for mediocore Pad Thai and go grey working for the NHS.

Thailand is not perfect nor is London. I love both but I actually think I can have a much more comfortable life with enough challenges in Bkk and still have time to stop and smell the flowers.

I don't know what will happen but I think that I will be in Bkk more than London.

It helps that we have a nice house with no mortgage in Bkk and I have a reasonable sum invested (I call it my Pete Tong Money) so I can return to UK permanently if I needed to, but I really hope I won't have to.

I will be spending the first 6 months at college learning the language before I decide what to do so we will see.

As for long term planning how much can we actually do in reality. We miss out on stuff so we can have more money when we are old and less able to enjoy it. I am not sure of the statistics but a lot of people die within a year of retiring.

I do enjoy my life in the west but the cost is high. Economically and emotionally. Life in LOS maybe frustrating at times but there are many compensations. I suppose in the end you just have to weigh it up.

But good luck to anyone moving to LOS and good luck to anyone moving back to the West. ou can only find your dream if you go looking for it.

[astral]

Bye Bye

You will not be missed.

Thailand is not for everyone, thank goodness.

I left after 20 years, but would NEVER consider going back to the UK.

[Bjorn]

I live in Thaialnd and I'm quite happy about my life here. I'm doing consultancy work around the world, traveling about 5 months per year. Anyway, Icould well leave Thailand for some of the neighbouring countries. I've gor some friend living in Philippines. I understand that the expat life there is a lot better than in Thailand. You can own whatever you buy, land, house, etc etc. Seems to be no hassle there as it is in Thailand. Have met quite a few expats thinking of moving due to the Thai (expat) law. I think Thailand is digging it'e own grave when it comes to attracting foreigners to move here. There is hard competiton coming up from Malaysia, Vietnam. Philippines, etc

[Maigo6]

It's funny how an earlier poster said I've matured (I'm a young 29). A lot/most/all of my wifes husbands seem to have an infantile obsession with Thailand

So how many husbands does she have ?

[Maigo6]

No doubt some are of the understanding that they don't actually own diddleysquat over there but they're willing to spend their last years enjoying holidays there and are fully aware of the situation regarding who actually OWNS the place. But others, especially those in middle years seem to be under the illusion that it's theirs, their life etc.

I find it very hard to believe that any Farang would think that he actually owns the land and house in Thailand.

Seems to me like you have no money and are just bitter about the fact that these guys had the money to spend in the first place.

Good luck in the UK, I was still going to night school when I was 31, it paid huge dividends eventually, enough to buy me a mini mansion in Thailand in fact!.....

Edited May 8, 2007 by Maigo6

[steffi]

Without a nestegg back home settling in Thailand is very tough. I don't like the idea of making investments in a country where they can change the rules whenever it suits them and I have no legal recourse to do anything. That's the way I feel about staying here. That said who can afford to retire in London? I know I certainly cannot. My has but he retired around 65 and lives a very "controlled' life and relys on NHS for medical care.

No doubt some are of the understanding that they don't actually own diddleysquat over there but they're willing to spend their last years enjoying holidays there and are fully aware of the situation regarding who actually OWNS the place. But others, especially those in middle years seem to be under the illusion that it's theirs, their life etc.

I find it very hard to believe that any Farang would think that he actually owns the land and house in Thailand.

Seems to me like you have no money and are just bitter about the fact that these guys had the money to spend in the first place.

Good luck in the UK, I was still going to night school when I was 31, it paid huge dividends eventually, enough to buy me a mini mansion in Thailand in fact!.....

[qualtrough]

I live in Thaialnd and I'm quite happy about my life here. I'm doing consultancy work around the world, traveling about 5 months per year. Anyway, Icould well leave Thailand for some of the neighbouring countries. I've gor some friend living in Philippines. I understand that the expat life there is a lot better than in Thailand. You can own whatever you buy, land, house, etc etc. Seems to be no hassle there as it is in Thailand. Have met quite a few expats thinking of moving due to the Thai (expat) law. I think Thailand is digging it'e own grave when it comes to attracting foreigners to move here. There is hard competiton coming up from Malaysia, Vietnam. Philippines, etc

Bjorn, do your homework very thoroughly before making any decision about the Philippines. I worked there between 2000-2002, and found it deficient in almost every respect compared to Thailand. Nice people, but a lot of negatives that have been covered in other threads here.

[November Rain]

No doubt some are of the understanding that they don't actually own diddleysquat over there but they're willing to spend their last years enjoying holidays there and are fully aware of the situation regarding who actually OWNS the place. But others, especially those in middle years seem to be under the illusion that it's theirs, their life etc.

I find it very hard to believe that any Farang would think that he actually owns the land and house in Thailand.

Seems to me like you have no money and are just bitter about the fact that these guys had the money to spend in the first place.

Good luck in the UK, I was still going to night school when I was 31, it paid huge dividends eventually, enough to buy me a mini mansion in Thailand in fact!.....

Maigo6, Excuse me if I'm wrong, but you seem to have a real hang-up about money: who has it, who doesn't, whether the have-nots are bitter & jealous... A lot of your posts allude to this. As a have-not, can I just put your mind at rest? I, for one, am not the least bit jealous of you. I'm glad you enjoy your life, I'm sure you worked hard to earn it. Great. Can we get off of the money soapbox now, please? Thank you.

BTW, I don't think OP sounded in the least bitter. He's also decided to do what you always advise "If you don't like it, go home". He seems very well adjusted to me. Why pick on him?

[popshirt]

Interesting reading. At the moment I have two friends (not together) who are on "sabbatical" from Thailand and back in the US for a month or six weeks for what they call a "reality check". One has lived in LOS for a year, the other for four years. They both enjoy their lives in LOS and both have money to either stay here or remain in the US. One of them (the one-year one) wrote yesterday that he can't wait to return "home" to Thailand as he can't stand the US any more. The other one is not so sure. I will be doing the same thing myself in October and have every inention of returning to LOS. But the reality check is sometimes a good idea when life in LOS begins to tarnish.

(edited for spelling)

Edited May 8, 2007 by popshirt

[Maigo6]

Maigo6, Excuse me if I'm wrong, but you seem to have a real hang-up about money

Ok, I'll excuse you as you are wrong....................

[Dakhar]

Maigo6, Excuse me if I'm wrong, but you seem to have a real hang-up about money

Ok, I'll excuse you as you are wrong....................

denial

[Heng]

No doubt some are of the understanding that they don't actually own diddleysquat over there but they're willing to spend their last years enjoying holidays there and are fully aware of the situation regarding who actually OWNS the place. But others, especially those in middle years seem to be under the illusion that it's theirs, their life etc.

I find it very hard to believe that any Farang would think that he actually owns the land and house in Thailand.

'Any' is perhaps too broad a stroke. Most, perhaps because they set themselves up in situations where they likely cannot trust their spouses, inlaws, and sometimes even their own children. But there are certainly farangs who do trust their spouses, and children, and can consider family property as their own. It's no different from first generation Chinese and Indian immigrants here in the past. For that brief 18 years until their first round of children became legal property owners, they were technically in the same "property ownership" limbo but I doubt many thought that the family property wasn't family property. There is no reason why farangs can't accomplish the same kind of normal property ownership over time. All it takes is careful spouse selection, grooming of the second generation, and long term thinking.

Edited May 8, 2007 by Heng

[naka]

...I suppose the big question is - Why the shift in thinking?...

Because you've grown and matured. You've developed real goals and now value concrete accomplishments. Neither of those things play much of a part in life in Thailand, which is why the place appeals so much to untethered, western drifters.

And those who have already achieved their goals ... both career and financial !

However I do agree that many younger people come to Thailand thinking it is

going to advance their career ... It seldom works out that way, this is not

a country where it is easy to get ahead. Never could figure out why anyone would

work for 20k a month just to stay here.

Naka.

[Maigo6]

Never could figure out why anyone would

work for 20k a month just to stay here.

Naka.

That's something that has always puzzled me too.

[unforgiven]

After spending most of my twenties spending my time between the UK and Thailand I've come to the conclusion that for me, life in the west is best. I used to agonise over getting back to Thailand and really hated being in the UK when I returned home. My most recent trip to Los was for a month, a duty really as wifey wanted to see family and by the second week I wanted to go home to England, other than for family visits my Thai wife seems to be coming around to my way of thinking. I suppose the big question is - Why the shift in thinking? I don't know really, I'm starting to realise a life of pursuing meaningful goals seems to be more attainable in the West. Anybody beg to differ?

quite accurately put.If your persuing materialist goals the west is the bomb.The east has the mysterios "Idiana jones" apeal for us westerners, daily life is safe and rather routine in the west, the east offers a rumble in the jungle day... different strokes for different folks and we all change with time

[Little Black Duck]

Well, Well Well, The Old Chestnut raises its ugly head again..

After returning to Farangland (OZ) I miss that magic life style and my spicy food..

The warm weather and the freedom, however its nice not to have to repeat myself 10 times

to be understood, having importantly,,equality!!

When a Policeman stops me (just once here) He did a breath test at 11am, as if, but there was no "Give me B200"..

I only need a Tax File No. not a Company and all the required Visas and WP..

However its freeking cold, costs the earth to live here, but its all relavent,

I'm in a share situation with friends so rent is cheap..

You can live cheaply if you so choose..So from my point of View

It all comes back to where and how you decide to live either in Farangland or Thailand, as I see it they both have for's and against's. I think bashing either, is foolish, its called choice, and I'm sorry that is an individules right..LBD

[shochu]

Heng,

Always such a wealth of knowledge. Do you mind if I pick your brain?

I always wondered about this and kind of assumed it - but I will ask you definitively - if I may.

1) So from what you are saying - many of the first generation immigrants came and after they had kids (in thailand) and after they became legal (at 18) then they were able to own the land through their kids?

2) Do they then change their names to thai names to make it legal to own land?

AND

To the O.P.

Why not live in another asian country and just visit LOS. One can have a pretty good career and make (save) more money here in asia if you are getting a good salary because the tax on income is so low and except for housing - most expenses are lower than in the west. I have many friends in the region doing the same and getting good salaries and saving a bundle and they are just a short hop away. Rather than driving to a cottage a couple of hours away - it's just a short flight away - and definitely beats driving.

Try singapore, hong kong, japan, korea.

If it's a career you want to maintain with a more western lifestyle.

[Rinrada]

Heng,

Always such a wealth of knowledge. Do you mind if I pick your brain?

I always wondered about this and kind of assumed it - but I will ask you definitively - if I may.

1) So from what you are saying - many of the first generation immigrants came and after they had kids (in thailand) and after they became legal (at 18) then they were able to own the land through their kids?

2) Do they then change their names to thai names to make it legal to own land?

AND

To the O.P.

Why not live in another asian country and just visit LOS. One can have a pretty good career and make (save) more money here in asia if you are getting a good salary because the tax on income is so low and except for housing - most expenses are lower than in the west. I have many friends in the region doing the same and getting good salaries and saving a bundle and they are just a short hop away. Rather than driving to a cottage a couple of hours away - it's just a short flight away - and definitely beats driving.

Try singapore, hong kong, japan, korea.

If it's a career you want to maintain with a more western lifestyle.

Def. agree ...I would hate to have a cottage in Devon or the highlands of Alba when its so so SO EASY now to get from the likes of London to Chiang Mai... and in almost ...about the same time....

Remember the time I drove up to Aberdeen once to see Conoco about some Offshore work....took me about 16 hours driving....crazy....roads are probably better now but ......never again...

Actually theres a bank Holiday coming up in 2 weeks times so recon another long weekend in Mae-On could be on the cards....in fact ...Why ( Thai ) Not..?

time for a shufti and a quote....

[Heng]

Heng,

Always such a wealth of knowledge. Do you mind if I pick your brain?

I always wondered about this and kind of assumed it - but I will ask you definitively - if I may.

1) So from what you are saying - many of the first generation immigrants came and after they had kids (in thailand) and after they became legal (at 18) then they were able to own the land through their kids?

2) Do they then change their names to thai names to make it legal to own land?

Actually name changes are no longer necessary. The mandatory name change for immigrants was a rather brief period in history -I am not sure of specific dates-, but you'll find plenty of 2nd/3rd generation Thais with Indian and Chinese last names (unchanged). For falangs... and more accurately for luk krungs, the second generation are legal Thais. The Tata Youngs, the Kat and Willie Macintosh's ... all completely legal/considered Thai and able to own land.

[samran]

Heng,

Always such a wealth of knowledge. Do you mind if I pick your brain?

I always wondered about this and kind of assumed it - but I will ask you definitively - if I may.

1) So from what you are saying - many of the first generation immigrants came and after they had kids (in thailand) and after they became legal (at 18) then they were able to own the land through their kids?

2) Do they then change their names to thai names to make it legal to own land?

Actually name changes are no longer necessary. The mandatory name change for immigrants was a rather brief period in history -I am not sure of specific dates-, but you'll find plenty of 2nd/3rd generation Thais with Indian and Chinese last names (unchanged). For falangs... and more accurately for luk krungs, the second generation are legal Thais. The Tata Youngs, the Kat and Willie Macintosh's ... all completely legal/considered Thai and able to own land.

you raise a good point Heng.

We can debate till the cows come home regarding the rights of foreigners here, but the second generation, aren't discriminated against. People tend to forget that they are migrants, and the migrant story, espcially for the first generation is never going to be easy regardless how the laws are.

My blond haired blue eyed child is going to have exactly the same rights as ever other thai, and in 20 years time, I'm pretty sure my child won't be such a unique commidity in Thailand in the same way as Thai Chinese and Thai Indian aren't uncommon today. It just takes a generation.