Scottish nationalists set for record majority, boosting independence push

[sandyf]

19 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

And your solution to all this is to become one of 28 states in an increasingly federal EU?

 

This is my problem with the SNP. If they wanted to be Independent I'd respect that. But they don't. They just want to get away from Westminster (i.e. England) to be lorded over by the unelected commission in Brussels. Their claims to want independence are disingenuous at best. 

Utter garbage to try and claim EU member states are not independent countries.

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Johnson, speaking on STV yesterday during his panic trip to Scotland, says 'you can't have a referendum without a clear constitutional picture in advance'.  

Probably not aware there was a 650 page white paper published prior to the 2014 referendum, he will be going on how brexit was done.

[NanLaew]

43 minutes ago, sandyf said:

21 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Yes, I read it and I discounted the relevance of the comparison as you perceive it. I am not a Malta expert, the closest being working with some Maltese in the middle east but their location slap bang in the middle of the "middle sea", and thus having faster and easier access to the three markets I mentioned, has been a significant enabler in their great good fortune... in addition to probably getting all sorts of freebies from the EU. I can accept that you will also disagree with that.

 

"Location , location, location!..." As they say in Holyrood.... sorry Hollywood.

Since when was location a prerequisite to EU membership?

 

Beyond being on or near the landmass that is geographically named as Europe, it isn't. However, it is quite important when it comes to riding on the coattails of booming international trade as your own example of Malta has proven.

 

"The strengths of Malta's economy are its strategic location, being situated in the middle of the Mediterranean Sea at a crossroads between Europe, North Africa and the Middle East, ..."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Malta

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, sharksy said:

Very True.  Actually, Gibraltar has benefitted hugely as a result of Brexit.

Yes, we now have part of the UK in Schengen, and also a border in the north sea.

Taking back control of the borders was a bit selective.

[NanLaew]

15 minutes ago, sandyf said:

19 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

And your solution to all this is to become one of 28 states in an increasingly federal EU?

 

This is my problem with the SNP. If they wanted to be Independent I'd respect that. But they don't. They just want to get away from Westminster (i.e. England) to be lorded over by the unelected commission in Brussels. Their claims to want independence are disingenuous at best. 

Utter garbage to try and claim EU member states are not independent countries.

 

Why don't you try and tell us that EU members are undeniably less independent than the United Kingdom is now... for which we are eternally grateful BTW

 

PS: This is NOT an acknowledgment of Boris Johnson or his Tories being good at anything. They are not so please stay on topic.

Edited January 30, 2021 by NanLaew

[sandyf]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

 

Beyond being on or near the landmass that is geographically named as Europe, it isn't. However, it is quite important when it comes to riding on the coattails of booming international trade as your own example of Malta has proven.

With a GDP per capita about 70% of Scotland, what exactly has been proven?

 

If you had understood the point in the first place you would't keep digging.

[sandyf]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Why don't you try and tell us that EU members are undeniably less independent than the United Kingdom is now... for which we are eternally grateful BTW

 

PS: This is NOT an acknowledgment of Boris Johnson or his Tories being good at anything. They are not so please stay on topic.

EU member states are Independent sovereign nations.

How would you define a less independent sovereign nation?

 

The poster you quoted that made this statement thinks that the SNP do not want Scotland to become an independent sovereign nation.

"This is my problem with the SNP. If they wanted to be Independent I'd respect that. But they don't."

[RuamRudy]

5 hours ago, sharksy said:

Not True.  Wales voted for Brexit.

Had Wales gone the other way, Brexit wouldn't have occurred.

That was my 50/50 split - England and Wales for, Scotland and Northern Ireland against. To my shame, I overlooked Gibraltar so that's 3 against, 2 for. I am confident that even if Wales was against Brexit, it would make no difference if the numbers still backed leave.

 

The billionaire Brexit boys only needed to convince enough English people that their further enrichment away from the scrutiny of Brussels was good for the hoi poloi too. 

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

With a GDP per capita about 70% of Scotland, what exactly has been proven?

 

If you had understood the point in the first place you would't keep digging.

 

I bet I can dig longer than you can keep missing the point.

[youreavinalaff]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Utter garbage to try and claim EU member states are not independent countries.

Not independent enough to order their own Covid19 vaccine, it would appear.

[transam]

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

That was my 50/50 split - England and Wales for, Scotland and Northern Ireland against. To my shame, I overlooked Gibraltar so that's 3 against, 2 for. I am confident that even if Wales was against Brexit, it would make no difference if the numbers still backed leave.

 

The billionaire Brexit boys only needed to convince enough English people that their further enrichment away from the scrutiny of Brussels was good for the hoi poloi too. 

Isn't history fascinating.....

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

Since when was location a prerequisite to EU membership?

The clue is in the name. E=European.????

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

I bet I can dig longer than you can keep missing the point.

Good deflection, I missed the point of my own post.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

Not independent enough to order their own Covid19 vaccine, it would appear.

Sorry, point obviously went over your head.

[sandyf]

54 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

The clue is in the name. E=European.????

It is a bit irrelevant if you think Scotland is not in the European geographical area.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

That was my 50/50 split - England and Wales for, Scotland and Northern Ireland against. To my shame, I overlooked Gibraltar so that's 3 against, 2 for. I am confident that even if Wales was against Brexit, it would make no difference if the numbers still backed leave.

There was a good summary of the brexit vote in an article in the Independent but for some reason the post I made in the other thread was taken down. If you want to read it, google 

MARY DEJEVSKY,Why Brexit will cause the collapse of the United Kingdom.

 

 

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Isn't history fascinating.....

 

 

And the points left out even more so.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

And the points left out even more so.

 

There has been a plethora of these well crafted attacks on the SNP in recent months. I can't help but wonder who is funding them. Probably the same shadowy dark money that bankrolled Brexit on behalf of a small band of very rich, self interested kleptomaniacs. 

[transam]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

There was a good summary of the brexit vote in an article in the Independent but for some reason the post I made in the other thread was taken down. If you want to read it, google 

MARY DEJEVSKY,Why Brexit will cause the collapse of the United Kingdom.

 

 

Is she Russian by any chance, writing for the Guardian............????

[sungod]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Not independent enough to order their own Covid19 vaccine, it would appear.

Sorry, point obviously went over your head

on the contrary, his either went over yours or you are just ignoring it.

[transam]

26 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

There has been a plethora of these well crafted attacks on the SNP in recent months. I can't help but wonder who is funding them. Probably the same shadowy dark money that bankrolled Brexit on behalf of a small band of very rich, self interested kleptomaniacs. 

You seem to have a thing against people with real money, are there no people with real money in Scotland......

[vogie]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

There has been a plethora of these well crafted attacks on the SNP in recent months. I can't help but wonder who is funding them. Probably the same shadowy dark money that bankrolled Brexit on behalf of a small band of very rich, self interested kleptomaniacs. 

The attacks lately have come from the SNP and their followers, nobody is funding them, they are just doing the right thing and exposing the SNP and its leader for a very serious crime if found to be true. The BBC and the Scottish media are being very kind to N Sturgeon and reporting very minimal news about them. 

This is a quote from Jamie Blackett:

"Not since the abdication crisis has there been such an iron  determination by the British media to ignore something that even the dogs in the streets are talking about."

 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, transam said:

You seem to have a thing against people with real money, are there no people with real money in Scotland......

 

What is real money? I have a fiver in my wallet. Is that not real money?

 

I have a thing against those who are very wealthy and use that wealth to subvert democracy. You know, like how the nasty party is currently handing out hundreds of millions of yours and my money to a small group of their friends, safe in the knowledge that what goes around comes around. 

[RuamRudy]

48 minutes ago, vogie said:

The attacks lately have come from the SNP and their followers, nobody is funding them, they are just doing the right thing and exposing the SNP and its leader for a very serious crime if found to be true. The BBC and the Scottish media are being very kind to N Sturgeon and reporting very minimal news about them. 

This is a quote from Jamie Blackett:

"Not since the abdication crisis has there been such an iron  determination by the British media to ignore something that even the dogs in the streets are talking about."

 

 

Deflection and right wing nutcases do not an argument make, I am afraid. 

[vogie]

13 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Deflection and right wing nutcases do not an argument make, I am afraid. 

Are you saying that Craig Murray the independence supporter is a right wing nutter?

[RuamRudy]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

Are you saying that Craig Murray the independence supporter is a right wing nutter?

He does seem to live in a shadowy world of conspiracy theories, but I think he is more left than right. 

I was referring to the Blackett fellow. 

[sharksy]

13 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

That was my 50/50 split - England and Wales for, Scotland and Northern Ireland against. To my shame, I overlooked Gibraltar so that's 3 against, 2 for. I am confident that even if Wales was against Brexit, it would make no difference if the numbers still backed leave.

 

The billionaire Brexit boys only needed to convince enough English people that their further enrichment away from the scrutiny of Brussels was good for the hoi poloi too. 

Thing is, it was one person, one vote (unless you are a student lol!).  It was about the UK in/out of the EU.  Was I thinking of my English vote when I voted?  No. 

 

If Scotland is such a nice place to live, how come their population hasn't rocketted, like Englands, under immigration?

 

[transam]

14 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

What is real money? I have a fiver in my wallet. Is that not real money?

 

I have a thing against those who are very wealthy and use that wealth to subvert democracy. You know, like how the nasty party is currently handing out hundreds of millions of yours and my money to a small group of their friends, safe in the knowledge that what goes around comes around. 

Typical Socialist rant, forgetting it is usually those with money that provide work for those with none....

Perhaps Communism is your thing, look how that has panned out on the world stage.....???? 

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

Typical Socialist rant, forgetting it is usually those with money that provide work for those with none....

Perhaps Communism is your thing, look how that has panned out on the world stage.....???? 

 

Is your thinking process really that binary? It would explain a lot about your posts on tvf. 

[transam]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Is your thinking process really that binary? It would explain a lot about your posts on tvf. 

You have a thing about folk with cash, folk on the fiddle, you are always posting that kinda stuff, so what am I to think. If you have a chip on your shoulder regarding purported insider fiddling, that is your problem..

Now lets get back to your leader fiddling.....