Scottish nationalists set for record majority, boosting independence push

[Laughing Gravy]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

A better job at what?

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-europe-by-country/

 

Expand it and you will see the Germans and the like at the bottom.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Laughing Gravy

[RuamRudy]

Just now, Laughing Gravy said:

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-europe-by-country/

 

Vaccinations in 2021 mean nothing to the thousands who are dead needlessly, because of our useless, incompetent and corrupt Prime Minister and his corrupt cabinet. You can cheer all you like whilst blissfully ignoring all those who are dead as a direct result of his actions (or inaction), but that is your choice to make. Me, I find it disgusting that the tragedy of his failure is so readily forgotten by his cult followers. It seems that there are no depths so foul he can stoop to but his fan boys will still have his back. 

[Laughing Gravy]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

 

Vaccinations in 2021 mean nothing to the thousands who are dead needlessly, because of our useless, incompetent and corrupt Prime Minister and his corrupt cabinet. You can cheer all you like whilst blissfully ignoring all those who are dead as a direct result of his actions (or inaction), but that is your choice to make. Me, I find it disgusting that the tragedy of his failure is so readily forgotten by his cult followers. It seems that there are no depths so foul he can stoop to but his fan boys will still have his back. 

You asked and I showed you. I have to say discussing points with you lately is pointless. Corrupt, who are we talking about Nichola Sturgeon or all politicians.

 

I simple can't be bothered with your continuous anti British sentiment. We get it you want independence.

[RayC]

Can someone satisfy my curiosity please? If Scotland had voted for independence in 2014, would an equivalent of 'Article 50' have needed to have been triggered i.e. would the First Minister (at his convenience?) have sent a letter to the PM stating that Scotland would leave the union on a certain (defined?) date? 

[RuamRudy]

Good to see privately educated, neo-liberal multimillionaire man of the people, Anas Sarwar, elected as branch manager for the Labour Party in Scotland. That's just the shot in the arm that Labour needs to win back the heartlands. 

 

Anas Sarwar wins Scottish Labour leadership election

[RuamRudy]

29 minutes ago, RayC said:

Can someone satisfy my curiosity please? If Scotland had voted for independence in 2014, would an equivalent of 'Article 50' have needed to have been triggered i.e. would the First Minister (at his convenience?) have sent a letter to the PM stating that Scotland would leave the union on a certain (defined?) date? 

 

If I recall correctly, the 2014 white paper set out a timetable for withdrawal from the UK in the event of a win for Yes, but I am uncertain if there had to be a formal notice of intent submitted. I presume yes, as it seems to be the most structured means of communicating a date, but maybe it would have been done through bi-partisan negotiation rather than a unilateral declaration? 

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Yeah, you keep pushing that narrative if you like; doesn't make any difference - you broke it, not us.

You? Not sure who that means. US? I think you are getting confused.WE is what you should be saying.

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

but Scotland didn't

 

Which is why Scotland needs to take back control and gain independance.

Ok. So if Scotland voted to remain in the EU, could you please remind me of when they joined? Scotland that is, not UK. 

 

You have to be in it to remain or leave.

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Oh dear. Selective reading at it's best.

 

You failed to understand why I would not call Brexit stupid.

 

It sounds like you would. Therefore,if an idea is stupid then it would be correct that those with that idea are stupid.

 

My post quite clearly shows that I have both reservations and optimism regarding Brexit. If you feel this makes me a Brexiteer then so be it. However, I will give you the satisfaction of confirming that I did not vote for Brexit.

 

Selective reading?

I asked you later if Brexit was a good idea and you couldnt give a straight answer to that either.

Calling something a stupid idea does not mean I called those who voted for it stupid. So put your faux outrage away.

I suspect you did not vote for Brexit because you had no vote. If you had then you would have voted for it.

Am I right so far again?

[youreavinalaff]

15 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Selective reading?

I asked you later if Brexit was a good idea and you couldnt give a straight answer to that either.

Calling something a stupid idea does not mean I called those who voted for it stupid. So put your faux outrage away.

I suspect you did not vote for Brexit because you had no vote. If you had then you would have voted for it.

Am I right so far again?

No. You are not right.

 

I, however you look at it, gave you a very concise answer to your question.

 

I am not outraged at all. All through this thread I have made my point, usually back by facts, in a civil manner. Just because you disagree, although it is impossible to disagree with facts, you get the hump.

[Rookiescot]

Just now, youreavinalaff said:

No. You are not right.

 

I, however you look at it, gave you a very concise answer to your question.

 

I am not outraged at all. All through this thread I have made my point, usually back by facts, in a civil manner. Just because you disagree, although it is impossible to disagree with facts, you get the hump.

 

Ah now thats just pure projection. You never back your arguments with sourced facts. Just opinion. Its not the same thing.

So. Given you are claiming you could have voted in the Brexit referendum did you voted to remain?

Yes or no will suffice.

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Ah now thats just pure projection. You never back your arguments with sourced facts. Just opinion. Its not the same thing.

So. Given you are claiming you could have voted in the Brexit referendum did you voted to remain?

Yes or no will suffice.

You have now gone from selective reading to putting words in my mouth. 

 

As for me not backing my posts up with facts:

 

1. Scotland did not have a vote in the EU referendum as they were not members. The vote was taken by UK.

 

2. Scotland have already decided their future. They had a referendum in 2014 and voted remain.

 

3. Both Salmond and Sturgeon called it " one opportunity". A quick Google of that will show you some lovely photos of the two of them holding a banner saying exactly that.

[tebee]

39 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Ok. So if Scotland voted to remain in the EU, could you please remind me of when they joined? Scotland that is, not UK. 

 

You have to be in it to remain or leave.

Later this year.

[Rookiescot]

Just now, youreavinalaff said:

You have now gone from selective reading to putting words in my mouth. 

 

As for me not backing my posts up with facts:

 

1. Scotland did not have a vote in the EU referendum as they were not members. The vote was taken by UK.

 

2. Scotland have already decided their future. They had a referendum in 2014 and voted remain.

 

3. Both Salmond and Sturgeon called it " one opportunity". A quick Google of that will show you some lovely photos of the two of them holding a banner saying exactly that.

 

Pure deflection. Did you vote to remain in the EU?

Yes or no?

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Pure deflection. Did you vote to remain in the EU?

Yes or no?

Pure fact. 

 

Why do you think I should answer to  you anyway? I believe it was a private ballot.

 

Regardless of my vote, I have made my feelings quite clear on here more than several times.

[sharksy]

Going by the attitude of the few Scottish Independence posters here, it seems that Scottish Independence largely boils down to a general dislike/hatred of the English.

When I was growing up, I always considered Scotland and Wales to be "regions" of England, and I don't mean any offence by that.

Perhaps from the Scottish point of view, the other nations are seen as "regions" of England too.
 

[herfiehandbag]

9 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Pure deflection. Did you vote to remain in the EU?

Yes or no?

It was a secret ballot, "Rookiescot", that is a central plank in the United Kingdom's democratic system. You of course are free to shout from the mountain tops how you voted, but it doesn't mean that you have any right whatsoever to demand that others reveal how they voted. Leaving aside the point that to do so is veering off topic, the overall impression now is that, unwilling to argue the case any further, you are trying to pick a fight.

 

[RuamRudy]

8 hours ago, sharksy said:

Going by the attitude of the few Scottish Independence posters here, it seems that Scottish Independence largely boils down to a general dislike/hatred of the English.

When I was growing up, I always considered Scotland and Wales to be "regions" of England, and I don't mean any offence by that.

Perhaps from the Scottish point of view, the other nations are seen as "regions" of England too.
 

Who are these posters and what have they been posting to lead you to this view? 

[RuamRudy]

While we all wait for yet another poster to provide evidence of yet another claim that independence supporters on TVF are driven  by "a general dislike/hatred of the English" (and if EVERY other time this has been posited is a guide, we will be waiting a very long time), here is a nice little review of a new book that I am sure we will all be rushing out to buy:

 

The end of Britain is nigh: Here's how, when and why...

"Things that have been a long time coming, finally come suddenly. And the end of the UK has been a long time coming. The band may still be playing, but it is playing on the deck of the Titanic: we were holed below the waterline a long time ago, it’s just that the tipping point has now been reached.

 

“The central argument of this book is that while the United Kingdom can survive Irish, Scottish and Welsh nationalisms, it cannot survive English nationalism." Winston Churchill, no less, agreed."

[RuamRudy]

Updated on 25th Feb, the New Statesman poll of polls predicts that the SNP will win 70 seats in the May election.

Add the 10 Green seats and that is 80 of 129 seats held by parties supporting independence. 

 

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

While we all wait for yet another poster to provide evidence of yet another claim that independence supporters on TVF are driven  by "a general dislike/hatred of the English" (and if EVERY other time this has been posited is a guide, we will be waiting a very long time)

 

You could make a start by reading your own posts. There are plenty of comments there. 

 

Your frequent use of the word "we" would suggest you are, in your thoughts anyway, speaking for most of Scotland.

[RuamRudy]

18 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

You could make a start by reading your own posts. There are plenty of comments there. 

 

Your frequent use of the word "we" would suggest you are, in your thoughts anyway, speaking for most of Scotland.

 

Well, why don't you start by pointing out where I have made a comment which shows a "general dislike / hatred of the English", because I would dispute fully any such suggestion. If there are "plenty comments there", I cannot find them but it will be easy for you. 

 

I speak for nobody but myself; the linguistic devices I choose are certainly not intended to convey some sort of authority, but in the post you replied to, I think you would need to be pretty limited in your comprehension skills if you were to infer such a notion. 

[vogie]

Xx

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

While we all wait for yet another poster to provide evidence of yet another claim that independence supporters on TVF are driven  by "a general dislike/hatred of the English" (and if EVERY other time this has been posited is a guide, we will be waiting a very long time), here is a nice little review of a new book that I am sure we will all be rushing out to buy:

 

The end of Britain is nigh: Here's how, when and why...

"Things that have been a long time coming, finally come suddenly. And the end of the UK has been a long time coming. The band may still be playing, but it is playing on the deck of the Titanic: we were holed below the waterline a long time ago, it’s just that the tipping point has now been reached.

 

“The central argument of this book is that while the United Kingdom can survive Irish, Scottish and Welsh nationalisms, it cannot survive English nationalism." Winston Churchill, no less, agreed."

While we all wait for yet another poster to provide evidence of yet another claim that independence supporters on TVF are driven  by "a general dislike/hatred of the English

Whether you chose to acknowledge the hatred that the SNP exhumes is entirely up to you, posters have said on here that they dislike the English and to boot have even called their own fellow Scots traitors for not voting for the SNP. But there again that is something that anybody is likely to admit to now is it.

Scotland is falling apart at the seams and all Sturgeon is bothered about is indy, indy and more indy, and her followers are letting her get away with it, why is that I wonder.

All your posts no matter what thread we are discussing is Boris Bashing, but I would have to admit that is a great diversionary tactic seeing what the SNP are going through at the moment, calling Boris corrupt is beyond a joke compared to Mrs Sturgeon, she makes Boris look like Mother Teresa.

Scottish Nationalism and any other form of Nationalism in any of its forms is a total disgrace.

 

And although this article is over 4 years old the message remains as strong today as it did then.

 

Trade unionist Clare Hepworth tweeted that: “I have MANY SNP followers & friends. I have NEVER heard or read a racist comment from any of them!”

Hepworth’s approach brings to mind the old “tree falling in a deserted forest” puzzle – if racism occurs and another white person isn’t around to hear it, has racism still happened? Comments such as Hepworth’s only make it harder for people of colour to come forward about the discrimination we face, increasing the risk of us being disbelieved when we do speak out. Making racism invisible does not help those of us who experience it. If you argue there is no racism at all, it shuts down the need to talk about it. But if we don’t talk about racism then the status quo – in which white graduates are more than twice as likely to be hired as black, Asian and minority ethnic graduates in Britain – goes unchallenged.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/01/scottish-nationalists-racist-uk-bigotry-sadiq-khan

Edited February 28, 2021 by vogie
Forgot the link

[youreavinalaff]

12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Well, why don't you start by pointing out where I have made a comment which shows a "general dislike / hatred of the English", because I would dispute fully any such suggestion. If there are "plenty comments there", I cannot find them but it will be easy for you. 

 

I speak for nobody but myself; the linguistic devices I choose are certainly not intended to convey some sort of authority, but in the post you replied to, I think you would need to be pretty limited in your comprehension skills if you were to infer such a notion. 

No need to point anything out. I have read all posts on this thread and can see the hatred in the comments. Those on here that don't have blinkered, selective reading issues can see it too.

 

No need to spoon feed those with the ability to read things without a bias needed to make it fit their own agenda.

 

Please explain one thing, if your choice of pronoun has no bearing on your posts, to whom does "we" refer?

Edited February 28, 2021 by youreavinalaff

[RuamRudy]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

Xx

While we all wait for yet another poster to provide evidence of yet another claim that independence supporters on TVF are driven  by "a general dislike/hatred of the English

Whether you chose to acknowledge the hatred that the SNP exhumes is entirely up to you, posters have said on here that they dislike the English and to boot have even called there own fellow Scots traitors for not voting for the SNP. But there again that is something that anybody is likely to admit to now is it.

Scotland is falling apart at the seams and all Sturgeon is bothered about is indy, indy and more indy, and her followers are letting her get away with it, why is that I wonder.

All your posts no matter what thread we are discussing is Boris Bashing, but I would have to admit that is a great diversionary tactic seeing what the SNP are going through at the moment, calling Boris corrupt is beyond a joke compared to Mrs Sturgeon, she makes Boris look like Mother Teresa.

Scottish Nationalism and any other form of Nationalism in any of its forms is a total disgrace.

 

And although this article is over 4 years old the message remains as strong today as it did then.

 

Trade unionist Clare Hepworth tweeted that: “I have MANY SNP followers & friends. I have NEVER heard or read a racist comment from any of them!”

Hepworth’s approach brings to mind the old “tree falling in a deserted forest” puzzle – if racism occurs and another white person isn’t around to hear it, has racism still happened? Comments such as Hepworth’s only make it harder for people of colour to come forward about the discrimination we face, increasing the risk of us being disbelieved when we do speak out. Making racism invisible does not help those of us who experience it. If you argue there is no racism at all, it shuts down the need to talk about it. But if we don’t talk about racism then the status quo – in which white graduates are more than twice as likely to be hired as black, Asian and minority ethnic graduates in Britain – goes unchallenged.

 

 

 

How can I acknowledge something that  you cannot present? I mean if you were able to show the sort of nasty racism and xenophobia that your beloved Brexit is utterly saturated in then you may have a point. As usual, however, you can't.

 

The truth is, Vogie, only one of the two us has form when it comes to endorsing hate messages about countries in the British Isles - and it isn't me.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by RuamRudy

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

No need to point anything out. I have read all posts on this thread and can see the hatred in the comments. Those on here that don't have blinkered, selective reading issues can see it too.

 

No need to spoon feed those with the ability to read things without a bias needed to make it fit their own agenda.

 

 

So you also have chosen the coward's option - there are plenty of you on these threads, so you are not alone. 

 

[PremiumLane]

On 1/14/2021 at 7:09 PM, Psimbo said:

We want independence but want back in the EU where we will do what we are told'. Anybody else spot that oxymoron?

so you don't understand how the EU works then?

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The truth is, Vogie, only one of the two us has form when it comes to endorsing hate messages about countries in the British Isles - and it isn't me.

Never is you is it RR, the Nationalist, in your case the SNP always needs someone to hate.

[Rookiescot]

15 minutes ago, vogie said:

Xx

While we all wait for yet another poster to provide evidence of yet another claim that independence supporters on TVF are driven  by "a general dislike/hatred of the English

Whether you chose to acknowledge the hatred that the SNP exhumes is entirely up to you, posters have said on here that they dislike the English and to boot have even called there own fellow Scots traitors for not voting for the SNP. But there again that is something that anybody is likely to admit to now is it.

Scotland is falling apart at the seams and all Sturgeon is bothered about is indy, indy and more indy, and her followers are letting her get away with it, why is that I wonder.

All your posts no matter what thread we are discussing is Boris Bashing, but I would have to admit that is a great diversionary tactic seeing what the SNP are going through at the moment, calling Boris corrupt is beyond a joke compared to Mrs Sturgeon, she makes Boris look like Mother Teresa.

Scottish Nationalism and any other form of Nationalism in any of its forms is a total disgrace.

 

And although this article is over 4 years old the message remains as strong today as it did then.

 

Trade unionist Clare Hepworth tweeted that: “I have MANY SNP followers & friends. I have NEVER heard or read a racist comment from any of them!”

Hepworth’s approach brings to mind the old “tree falling in a deserted forest” puzzle – if racism occurs and another white person isn’t around to hear it, has racism still happened? Comments such as Hepworth’s only make it harder for people of colour to come forward about the discrimination we face, increasing the risk of us being disbelieved when we do speak out. Making racism invisible does not help those of us who experience it. If you argue there is no racism at all, it shuts down the need to talk about it. But if we don’t talk about racism then the status quo – in which white graduates are more than twice as likely to be hired as black, Asian and minority ethnic graduates in Britain – goes unchallenged.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/01/scottish-nationalists-racist-uk-bigotry-sadiq-khan

 

And yet after all this time you have never provided a single anti English quote from either a poster on here or indeed from the SNP.

Instead you link to an article by Sadiq Khan in which he claims (without providing any evidence) of racism in the SNP and goes on to rail at the UK as a whole for its institutionalised racism.

You have trumpeted this lie about anti English sentiment for years Vogie.

Either give evidence or give it up.

[RuamRudy]

Just now, vogie said:

Never is you is it RR, the Nationalist, in your case the SNP always needs someone to hate.

No - it was you. Do you need reminded?