rooster59 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Thai monk faces online backlash over abortion stance By Nanchanok Wongsamuth Phra Shine Waradhammo, a Buddhist monk, holds a "stop condemning abortion" placard at a demonstration in front of parliament in Bangkok, Thailand on January 25, 2021. Photo courtesy of Krit Phromsakla Na Sakolnakorn/Thai News Pix BANGKOK (Thomson Reuters Foundation) - A Buddhist monk known for his support for LGBT+ rights has sparked outrage among conservatives after he called for Thailand to decriminalise abortion. Phra Shine Waradhammo was among about 20 pro-choice activists who protested in front of the Thai parliament this week, calling for all penalties to be revoked for women who choose to terminate a pregnancy. "People were calling me 'garbage' and a 'hungry ghost in a saffron robe' on Facebook," the 52-year-old monk said on Friday, referring to comments under a photo of him holding a "stop condemning abortion" placard at the demonstration. "Even when I spoke about LGBT+ issues a decade ago, I didn't receive as much criticism, probably because people see (abortion) as murder," he told the Thomson Reuters Foundation. Abortion is opposed by many of Thailand's conservative Theravada Buddhism majority, who believe it goes directly against Buddhist teachings and that women who undergo a termination will be haunted by a ghost. But on Monday, Thai lawmakers voted in favour of allowing abortion up to 12 weeks of pregnancy while retaining penalties for later terminations - a move pro-choice advocates said fell short of protecting the rights of the mother. Under the amendment to an existing law, an abortion after 12 weeks would be allowed only in certain conditions and would otherwise be punishable by up to six months in prison, or a fine of up to 10,000 baht ($334) or both. Phra Shine is an active user of social media and frequently posts about gender issues and sexual equality, and responds to questions and comments on how these relate to Buddhism. In 2011, he wrote an opinion piece for a national magazine about the remains of more than 2,000 fetuses discovered by police at a Buddhist temple in Bangkok, calling for people to sympathise with women who undergo illegal abortions. "Women who have an abortion are suppressed by religious teachings in the same way that LGBT+ people are suppressed by the moral system," he said. "I see religion as being contradictory in that it wants people to reach nirvana, or the end of suffering, but why aren't people forgiven for committing sins instead of being berated, which will make them unhappy?" Despite embracing many elements of Western-style democracy, Thailand has included Buddhist teachings into laws, such as banning gambling and rules on alcohol consumption, said Khemthong Tonsakulrungruang, a law lecturer at Chulalongkorn University. "Morality has its own mechanisms for punishing those who commit sins, such as heaven and hell," said Khemthong, who has researched Thai law and religion. "Why are we so fixated on killing as a sin but not on the quality of life of a child? In this era, Buddhism cannot survive by seeing things in a simplistic way." (Reporting by Nanchanok Wongsamuth @nanchanokw; Editing by Michael Taylor. Please credit the Thomson Reuters Foundation, the charitable arm of Thomson Reuters, that covers the lives of people around the world who struggle to live freely or fairly. Visit http://news.trust.org) -- © Copyright Reuters 2021-01-30 - Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you - Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post PatOngo Posted January 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2021 23 minutes ago, rooster59 said: "Morality has its own mechanisms for punishing those who commit sins, such as heaven and hell," said Khemthong, who has researched Thai law and religion. I wonder if that covers corruption??????? 1 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RJRS1301 Posted January 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2021 49 minutes ago, rooster59 said: Morality has its own mechanisms for punishing those who commit sins, such as heaven and hell," said Khemthong, who has researched Thai law and religion. "Why are we so fixated on killing as a sin but not on the quality of life of a child? In this era, Buddhism cannot survive by seeing things in a simplistic way." Firstly one would have to believe inheaven or hell to believe that I thought Thailand still had the death penalty, so state sanctioned murder is ok, but aborting a fetus is not, , and if the resultant child lives to be abused and or malnourished, work in basic servitude, thats ok>? Good on the monk for being a humanist, and not judgeing others. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lacessit Posted January 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2021 A progressive monk, good for him. Although there are still plenty of males around who think it is their right to tell women what to do with their bodies. IMO the results of a plebiscite where only women were allowed to vote on the issue would be overwhelming. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanuk711 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 The madness of Thailand---if you live in Pattaya, they have an abortion clinic attached to the Pattaya international hospital Soi 4. Its only accessible from the back Soi 5, & as I found out not accessible at all if your male. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post asiasurfer Posted January 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2021 This monk deserves a medal as big as a frying pan for his courage! ???? 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quake Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) oops. Well done Mr monk Edited January 30, 2021 by quake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benmart Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 hours ago, asiasurfer said: This monk deserves a medal as big as a frying pan for his courage! ???? Those are only reserved for those in uniform, awarded not for courage, but as ego candy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarteso Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 7 hours ago, RJRS1301 said: Firstly one would have to believe inheaven or hell to believe that I thought Thailand still had the death penalty, so state sanctioned murder is ok, but aborting a fetus is not, , and if the resultant child lives to be abused and or malnourished, work in basic servitude, thats ok>? Good reflection ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingstonkid Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 This is a subject that will IMHO never end no matter what country you live in. It is ongoing in the U.S. as well as almost every other country in the world. Is there a solution I am not really sure. While I understand that abortion in some cases is necessary and that it has merit my worry is that a lot of young women will start to think that it is a convenience so they screw around get pregnant and then go get an abortion. Especially if it is covered under government medical plans. Personally I think there needs to be a lot more education and responsibility training going on in the schools and in society about this and a lot of other things. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RJRS1301 Posted January 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, kingstonkid said: This is a subject that will IMHO never end no matter what country you live in. It is ongoing in the U.S. as well as almost every other country in the world. Is there a solution I am not really sure. While I understand that abortion in some cases is necessary and that it has merit my worry is that a lot of young women will start to think that it is a convenience so they screw around get pregnant and then go get an abortion. Especially if it is covered under government medical plans. Personally I think there needs to be a lot more education and responsibility training going on in the schools and in society about this and a lot of other things. What about men taking some responsible actions, using condoms not 100% reliable when screwing around,, also cut down on the STI transmissions, or is ok for men to screw around and not women? What about men taking respionsibilty for birth control in relationships, and if no more children wanted in relationships having a vasectomy? Why is it women have to carry the rsponsibilty for birth control when many cannot use contraceptive pills for many reasons? Two people as you so eloquently say are "screwing" but one carries the major responsibilty. Why is women who have carry the responsibilty Edited January 30, 2021 by RJRS1301 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Broeno Posted January 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2021 Let woman be boss in their own body. Nothing more to say. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quake Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, RJRS1301 said: What about men taking some responsible actions, using condoms not 100% reliable when screwing around,, also cut down on the STI transmissions, or is ok for men to screw around and not women? What about men taking respionsibilty for birth control in relationships, and if no more children wanted in relationships having a vasectomy? Why is it women have to carry the rsponsibilty for birth control when many cannot use contraceptive pills for many reasons? Two people as you so eloquently say are "screwing" but one carries the major responsibilty. Why is women who have carry the responsibilty cant see the male pill on the shelf at the pharmacy ? just think how much drug companies would lose in the long run. Edited January 30, 2021 by quake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRS1301 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, quake said: cant see the male pill on the shelf at the pharmacy ? just think how much drug companies would lose in the long run. Think of how much humanity may gain if men did not mistake their penis for a brain. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odysseus123 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 He's got a lot of guts, that guy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quake Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, RJRS1301 said: Think of how much humanity may gain if men did not mistake their penis for a brain. Are you referring to yourself ? Edited January 30, 2021 by quake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catoni Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 13 hours ago, rooster59 said: Thai monk faces online backlash over abortion stance By Nanchanok Wongsamuth Phra Shine Waradhammo, a Buddhist monk, holds a "stop condemning abortion" placard at a demonstration in front of parliament in Bangkok, Thailand on January 25, 2021. Photo courtesy of Krit Phromsakla Na Sakolnakorn/Thai News Pix BANGKOK (Thomson Reuters Foundation) - A Buddhist monk known for his support for LGBT+ rights has sparked outrage among conservatives after he called for Thailand to decriminalise abortion. Phra Shine Waradhammo was among about 20 pro-choice activists who protested in front of the Thai parliament this week, calling for all penalties to be revoked for women who choose to terminate a pregnancy. "People were calling me 'garbage' and a 'hungry ghost in a saffron robe' on Facebook," the 52-year-old monk said on Friday, referring to comments under a photo of him holding a "stop condemning abortion" placard at the demonstration. "Even when I spoke about LGBT+ issues a decade ago, I didn't receive as much criticism, probably because people see (abortion) as murder," he told the Thomson Reuters Foundation. Abortion is opposed by many of Thailand's conservative Theravada Buddhism majority, who believe it goes directly against Buddhist teachings and that women who undergo a termination will be haunted by a ghost. But on Monday, Thai lawmakers voted in favour of allowing abortion up to 12 weeks of pregnancy while retaining penalties for later terminations - a move pro-choice advocates said fell short of protecting the rights of the mother. Under the amendment to an existing law, an abortion after 12 weeks would be allowed only in certain conditions and would otherwise be punishable by up to six months in prison, or a fine of up to 10,000 baht ($334) or both. Phra Shine is an active user of social media and frequently posts about gender issues and sexual equality, and responds to questions and comments on how these relate to Buddhism. In 2011, he wrote an opinion piece for a national magazine about the remains of more than 2,000 fetuses discovered by police at a Buddhist temple in Bangkok, calling for people to sympathise with women who undergo illegal abortions. "Women who have an abortion are suppressed by religious teachings in the same way that LGBT+ people are suppressed by the moral system," he said. "I see religion as being contradictory in that it wants people to reach nirvana, or the end of suffering, but why aren't people forgiven for committing sins instead of being berated, which will make them unhappy?" Despite embracing many elements of Western-style democracy, Thailand has included Buddhist teachings into laws, such as banning gambling and rules on alcohol consumption, said Khemthong Tonsakulrungruang, a law lecturer at Chulalongkorn University. "Morality has its own mechanisms for punishing those who commit sins, such as heaven and hell," said Khemthong, who has researched Thai law and religion. "Why are we so fixated on killing as a sin but not on the quality of life of a child? In this era, Buddhism cannot survive by seeing things in a simplistic way." (Reporting by Nanchanok Wongsamuth @nanchanokw; Editing by Michael Taylor. Please credit the Thomson Reuters Foundation, the charitable arm of Thomson Reuters, that covers the lives of people around the world who struggle to live freely or fairly. Visit http://news.trust.org) -- © Copyright Reuters 2021-01-30 - Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you - Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates I would think that once an unborn baby’s brain waves begin.... (usually around day 40) from that point on, it’s a sentient life with an active brain. At that point, abortion for convenience sake....is murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time Traveller Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 12 hours ago, Broeno said: Let woman be boss in their own body. Nothing more to say. And the unborn baby the boss of their own body. Nothing more to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinsdale Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Religion should in no way dictate human rights. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRS1301 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Time Traveller said: And the unborn baby the boss of their own body. Nothing more to say. That is a completely unrealistic propostion, as everything the pregnant woman consumes, the enviroment living in, etc, has an effect on the unborn child and their development, or impairment Edited January 31, 2021 by RJRS1301 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 On 30/01/2021 at 8:58 AM, PatOngo said: I wonder if that covers corruption??????? No! this is Thailand - therefore it is a completely acceptable function of the society. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRS1301 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Artisi said: No! this is Thailand - therefore it is a completely acceptable function of the society. It may well be cultural, but is that acceptable? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 8 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said: It may well be cultural, but is that acceptable? It is to the Thai's, and seeing were are in Thailand it's acceptable - for you and myself, no - but we don't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChakaKhan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11785333 Wonder what he thinks about this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingstonkid Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 On 1/30/2021 at 4:59 PM, RJRS1301 said: What about men taking some responsible actions, using condoms not 100% reliable when screwing around,, also cut down on the STI transmissions, or is ok for men to screw around and not women? What about men taking respionsibilty for birth control in relationships, and if no more children wanted in relationships having a vasectomy? Why is it women have to carry the rsponsibilty for birth control when many cannot use contraceptive pills for many reasons? Two people as you so eloquently say are "screwing" but one carries the major responsibilty. Why is women who have carry the responsibilty Fully agree. People have to take responsibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 8 hours ago, ChakaKhan said: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11785333 Wonder what he thinks about this.... That was about 10 years ago, now past history and long forgotten - as usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 19 hours ago, Catoni said: I would think that once an unborn baby’s brain waves begin.... (usually around day 40) from that point on, it’s a sentient life with an active brain. At that point, abortion for convenience sake....is murder. So guess it's ok to go ahead to full term so any unwanted child can either dumped somewhere convenient or to spend their early life being neglected and abused and screwed mentally for the rest of their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancid Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 If he is a plain citizen then fair enough take whatever stand you wish. However he is supposedly a Buddhist monk, he mentions heaven and hell even though neither exist, and secondly goes on to encourage murder. I use that term as it legally describes a deliberate killing of a human being. True Buddhists don't even step on ants they are so loathe to kill. If he wants to take those views then take off the robes. His views on LBGTB are fine as there is no conflict there, demonizing homosexuals is an Abrahamic Religious invention, just like the misconception that they describe as heaven and hell. What he is right about is that abortions will happen whether legal or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB58 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 On 1/30/2021 at 9:35 AM, Lacessit said: A progressive monk, good for him. Although there are still plenty of males around who think it is their right to tell women what to do with their bodies. IMO the results of a plebiscite where only women were allowed to vote on the issue would be overwhelming. Probably so... but the child wasn’t conceived alone... not very often anyway????but then I imagine most of the fathers in question aren’t accountable anyway. Sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olfu Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 My understanding was monks suppose to be busy with praying not politics. Learning something new every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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