Will the 400,000 Baht Marriage Option.....

[torrenova]

The point about 9 times the average thai salary or even 5 times the average one worker household income is very true. There was (perhaps still is) the ridiculous requirement that a single guy needed Bt65k for retirement (or 800k) but a married guy needed Bt40k or something (400k).

When I make policy decisions here i Thailand or when I made policy decision in my previous career, I thought through the implications on my staff and often changed or abandoned the original plans. I am indeed going through that process in consultation with some long standing staff in one of my businesses right now. Why does Thailand not do this ? Random changes and interpretations are regular occurances here without any thought being given to the families concerned.

An example I saw in Buriram last year. After the October 2006 fiasco, a South African guy with two small children whose Thai wife had abandoned him with little cash left (money spent to get kids back) had to leave Thailand and his half built house together with his land as he fell foul of the visa regulations. His income was based upon fish farming but he was not allowed to work his (his children's) land. He could not afford any more lawyers and the border runs becaome limited to three. Perhaps he could have done something but the system had chewed him up and spat him out. Now two kids don't see their homeland thanks to the lack of thought before enacting knee jerk regulations.

[PeaceBlondie]

Pardon me, but if I could run this past you fast.

My mate is UK citizen married to a Thai. He makes 25K per month, and she makes less than 10K. He's thinking of changing from a B work visa to an O married to a Thai visa, but I told him their combined salaries have to total 40K. He can't be grandfathered in and doesn't have income from abroad. I advised him to stay on his B visa. Correct?

Guess he should try to somehow get a statement showing a higher income for his wife ......

How can he get a Work Permit with only 25 k escapes me, though ... I thought all Labor departments refuse to issue WPs with less than 30 or 40 k income? Or is he from SEA?

Sunny

As stated, he is a UK citizen. But, he's a teacher, a real one, a good one, earning 25K after three years, and only 11 months per year. Teachers are exempt from the income requirements like 40K and 45K. Even the Thais can't lie about that many teachers making 40K and 45K.

[Phil Conners]

Pardon me, but if I could run this past you fast.

My mate is UK citizen married to a Thai. He makes 25K per month, and she makes less than 10K. He's thinking of changing from a B work visa to an O married to a Thai visa, but I told him their combined salaries have to total 40K. He can't be grandfathered in and doesn't have income from abroad. I advised him to stay on his B visa. Correct?

Guess he should try to somehow get a statement showing a higher income for his wife ......

How can he get a Work Permit with only 25 k escapes me, though ... I thought all Labor departments refuse to issue WPs with less than 30 or 40 k income? Or is he from SEA?

Sunny

You're mixing things up. They will issue a WP but you need the money for the 1 year extension.

[Krub]

What baffles me is how the Thai authorities expect us to show 40k tax paid income when, except for a handfull of jobs, we're not allowed to work here. I have adequate anuall income from an offshore investment, but no regular income. I'm under 50 (just) and married with 1.5 children. At the moment I stay here with the Thai wife support and 400k bank deposit, but it looks likely I'll have to change it to the retirement system after this year.....more 'dead' money in the bank

geoffphuket

If you can show regular income from an offshore investment to yoru Embassy, I believe they will issue the income letter which will satisfy immigration. It is like a pension fund of sort.

[sriracha john]

Is it possible that you could just start one thread on the marriage visa and not 400,000 of them?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=120318&hl=

..... and yes... 400,000 is an exaggeration, but it's the exact same topic

Edited May 13, 2007 by sriracha john

[cm-happy]

This is, I think, proof of the additional visa reg changes for later this year that have been alluded too in other posts.

What else is coming??

[vermin on arrival]

JR Texas: Thanks........I truly believe it is critical that we--the members of the expat community--open our eyes wide and speak the truth. Yes, we will disagree......but it seems obvious that the govt. is intent on raising the bar until it reaches all of us.....how much more proof do we need?

Now.....maybe some numbers will put this problem in proper perspective. Those of us with experience in Thailand know that the vast majority of Thai families (with one bread earner) earn about 5000 baht per month (4000-6000 baht per month).

But a "mixed" farang-Thai family must earn 45,000 baht per month, 9 times more than a "pure" Thai family. There is no good reason for this. And, surely, it has nothing to do with crime.

Shift to the USA: The average "pure" American family (with one bread earner) earns about $2083 per month. What would a Thai male married to an American female think about USA immigration policy if he was required to earn 9 times that amount, or $18,747 per month?

It seems obvious to me that the Thai system is extremely unfair, cruel and, sadly, deliberately designed to break up mixed farang-Thai families.

A few years back one only needed 200K in the bank. BUT, too many farang-Thai families were able to meet that requirement. So the bar was raised to 400K. BUT, too many farang-Thai families still managed to meet that requirement. SO, the money in the bank requirement was dropped and replaced by a 45K monthly income requirement.......slightly more than the average pension of a retired US worker.

Fairness would dictate changing the law to something like 100K in the bank OR 5K per month income. Given that will likely never happen, perhaps they will change it to 200K in the bank OR 10K per month income.

The "OR" is critical........ask yourself why they are not providing mixed farang-Thai families that option. Can you say xenophobia? I am sorry but that is what it appears to be.

Having said that, I do not think that most Thais would support this new law if they truly understood its implications.

JR,

I think you are right on the money. The more I see these changes it just makes me sick. The bar is just constantly being raised or changed to deliberately reduce the number of farang/foreigners in the kingdom. It won't stop until the number has been reduced to what the people in charge think is an acceptable level.

Many people, who are currently unaffected, seem to think it is ok. However, one day, more likely than not, many of these individuals will also be adversely affected by similar changes which will make their status here a difficult, if not impossible, one to maintain.

It doesn't really seem that the expat communtiy can have any real influence on these events, or are united enough to do so even if we could, but maybe I'm wrong. Our only hope seems to be that with the advent of a new government, there might be a change in policy. However, when one looks at the steady erosion in the situation for farang/foreigners in Thailand since 2000, it appears unlikely for this to happen, and we appear to be in a downward cycle that might take a significant period of time to change. How long do these cycles last? Ten years? A generation?

Edited May 13, 2007 by vermin on arrival

[wolfmanjack]

The point about 9 times the average thai salary or even 5 times the average one worker household income is very true. There was (perhaps still is) the ridiculous requirement that a single guy needed Bt65k for retirement (or 800k) but a married guy needed Bt40k or something (400k)

And if you are 50 or older and have a thai child you do not need any income or money in the bank.

1 retired person = 65K per month

A married couple = 40K per month

A family of 3 = 0 per month.

It seems as if they are saying the more people you have the less money you need.

Edited May 13, 2007 by wolfmanjack

[JimmyTheMook]

A good friend of mine who has lived here since 2001 owns a home across from a Colonel of the Royal Thai Police Bangkok. My friend is having dinner with this police official as we speak. He figured he would ask about what I was just told at Pattaya Immigration and it has been confirmed.

The 400,000 baht in the bank option goes away after Oct 1 of this year.

Here is the new information - they now want the Thai spouse to prove income which would go along with what Colonel Prattaporn told me at Pattaya Immigration. She told me to start a business with my Thai Wife to show income. I wondered why she didn't say I should just show income but she did not. Now I know why, they want the Thai Spouse to show the income.

So much for living here and supporting a Thai Wife and Family.

This information is 10 minutes old and comes from a very reliable source.

Just did a 1 year extension based on marriage and showed over 40,000 baht monthly income from outside Thailand.

[JR Texas]

This is, I think, proof of the additional visa reg changes for later this year that have been alluded too in other posts.

What else is coming??

JR Texas: What other changes have been alluded too in other posts? Does any one have reliable information on what they are going to do next to harm expats and farang-Thai families........to thwart foreign investment, etc.

Is it just going to get worse until all expats that are trying to live peaceful lives here--including those that have been asleep in their grandfathered beds for the past seven years--are negatively affected?

[cm-happy]

This is, I think, proof of the additional visa reg changes for later this year that have been alluded too in other posts.

What else is coming??

JR Texas: What other changes have been alluded too in other posts? Does any one have reliable information on what they are going to do next to harm expats and farang-Thai families........to thwart foreign investment, etc.

Is it just going to get worse until all expats that are trying to live peaceful lives here--including those that have been asleep in their grandfathered beds for the past seven years--are negatively affected?

JRTEXAS

Nothing specific other than the Oct 1, change mentioned in this thread.

Just rumors in other threads of additional visa reg changes coming the end of this year.

Take rumor with a grain of salt. Wait and dont wory until it actually happens

[whopper]

time to start moving money into your accounts from outside thailand, to be on the safe side. show me the money!!!!

[RusT]

JR Texas: Thanks........I truly believe it is critical that we--the members of the expat community--open our eyes wide and speak the truth. Yes, we will disagree......but it seems obvious that the govt. is intent on raising the bar until it reaches all of us.....how much more proof do we need?

Now.....maybe some numbers will put this problem in proper perspective. Those of us with experience in Thailand know that the vast majority of Thai families (with one bread earner) earn about 5000 baht per month (4000-6000 baht per month).

But a "mixed" farang-Thai family must earn 45,000 baht per month, 9 times more than a "pure" Thai family. There is no good reason for this. And, surely, it has nothing to do with crime.

Shift to the USA: The average "pure" American family (with one bread earner) earns about $2083 per month. What would a Thai male married to an American female think about USA immigration policy if he was required to earn 9 times that amount, or $18,747 per month?

It seems obvious to me that the Thai system is extremely unfair, cruel and, sadly, deliberately designed to break up mixed farang-Thai families.

A few years back one only needed 200K in the bank. BUT, too many farang-Thai families were able to meet that requirement. So the bar was raised to 400K. BUT, too many farang-Thai families still managed to meet that requirement. SO, the money in the bank requirement was dropped and replaced by a 45K monthly income requirement.......slightly more than the average pension of a retired US worker.

Fairness would dictate changing the law to something like 100K in the bank OR 5K per month income. Given that will likely never happen, perhaps they will change it to 200K in the bank OR 10K per month income.

The "OR" is critical........ask yourself why they are not providing mixed farang-Thai families that option. Can you say xenophobia? I am sorry but that is what it appears to be.

Having said that, I do not think that most Thais would support this new law if they truly understood its implications.

JR,

I think you are right on the money. The more I see these changes it just makes me sick. The bar is just constantly being raised or changed to deliberately reduce the number of farang/foreigners in the kingdom. It won't stop until the number has been reduced to what the people in charge think is an acceptable level.

Many people, who are currently unaffected, seem to think it is ok. However, one day, more likely than not, many of these individuals will also be adversely affected by similar changes which will make their status here a difficult, if not impossible, one to maintain.

It doesn't really seem that the expat communtiy can have any real influence on these events, or are united enough to do so even if we could, but maybe I'm wrong. Our only hope seems to be that with the advent of a new government, there might be a change in policy. However, when one looks at the steady erosion in the situation for farang/foreigners in Thailand since 2000, it appears unlikely for this to happen, and we appear to be in a downward cycle that might take a significant period of time to change. How long do these cycles last? Ten years? A generation?

Spot on. To me this new rule seems more about forcing farangs to "buy/bribe" their way into being able to stay with their wives and families in the country. The 400k rule was fair - it showed you had money in the bank here in Thailand to spend while excess money was offshore where it could earn real money to be drawn upon at a later date. Providing you can demonstrate this year in year out and you don't break any Thai law I don't see where the problem lies.

Unfortunately I cannot afford to divert 40k from offshore each month where it is making good returns, to sit idle in a Thai bank earing little or no interest. To maximise my returns I only draw on money when I need it.

While I respect that this is Thailand and the authorities can do what they feel is in the national interest I find it unfair Obviously supporting a Thai wife and half Thai child for a number of years while living peacefully here does not count. Instead the bar has been raised and I have to prove my "worth".

I thought things would get easier over time for this process, not harder. I would hate to leave this country but will take my family out if I continue to feel like I'm being pushed out.

[Krub]

JR Texas: Thanks........I truly believe it is critical that we--the members of the expat community--open our eyes wide and speak the truth. Yes, we will disagree......but it seems obvious that the govt. is intent on raising the bar until it reaches all of us.....how much more proof do we need?

Now.....maybe some numbers will put this problem in proper perspective. Those of us with experience in Thailand know that the vast majority of Thai families (with one bread earner) earn about 5000 baht per month (4000-6000 baht per month).

But a "mixed" farang-Thai family must earn 45,000 baht per month, 9 times more than a "pure" Thai family. There is no good reason for this. And, surely, it has nothing to do with crime.

Shift to the USA: The average "pure" American family (with one bread earner) earns about $2083 per month. What would a Thai male married to an American female think about USA immigration policy if he was required to earn 9 times that amount, or $18,747 per month?

It seems obvious to me that the Thai system is extremely unfair, cruel and, sadly, deliberately designed to break up mixed farang-Thai families.

A few years back one only needed 200K in the bank. BUT, too many farang-Thai families were able to meet that requirement. So the bar was raised to 400K. BUT, too many farang-Thai families still managed to meet that requirement. SO, the money in the bank requirement was dropped and replaced by a 45K monthly income requirement.......slightly more than the average pension of a retired US worker.

Fairness would dictate changing the law to something like 100K in the bank OR 5K per month income. Given that will likely never happen, perhaps they will change it to 200K in the bank OR 10K per month income.

The "OR" is critical........ask yourself why they are not providing mixed farang-Thai families that option. Can you say xenophobia? I am sorry but that is what it appears to be.

Having said that, I do not think that most Thais would support this new law if they truly understood its implications.

JR,

I think you are right on the money. The more I see these changes it just makes me sick. The bar is just constantly being raised or changed to deliberately reduce the number of farang/foreigners in the kingdom. It won't stop until the number has been reduced to what the people in charge think is an acceptable level.

Many people, who are currently unaffected, seem to think it is ok. However, one day, more likely than not, many of these individuals will also be adversely affected by similar changes which will make their status here a difficult, if not impossible, one to maintain.

It doesn't really seem that the expat communtiy can have any real influence on these events, or are united enough to do so even if we could, but maybe I'm wrong. Our only hope seems to be that with the advent of a new government, there might be a change in policy. However, when one looks at the steady erosion in the situation for farang/foreigners in Thailand since 2000, it appears unlikely for this to happen, and we appear to be in a downward cycle that might take a significant period of time to change. How long do these cycles last? Ten years? A generation?

Spot on. To me this new rule seems more about forcing farangs to "buy/bribe" their way into being able to stay with their wives and families in the country. The 400k rule was fair - it showed you had money in the bank here in Thailand to spend while excess money was offshore where it could earn real money to be drawn upon at a later date. Providing you can demonstrate this year in year out and you don't break any Thai law I don't see where the problem lies.

Unfortunately I cannot afford to divert 40k from offshore each month where it is making good returns, to sit idle in a Thai bank earing little or no interest. To maximise my returns I only draw on money when I need it.

While I respect that this is Thailand and the authorities can do what they feel is in the national interest I find it unfair Obviously supporting a Thai wife and half Thai child for a number of years while living peacefully here does not count. Instead the bar has been raised and I have to prove my "worth".

I thought things would get easier over time for this process, not harder. I would hate to leave this country but will take my family out if I continue to feel like I'm being pushed out.

There is no requirement to bring 40kin Thailand every month. Just get your Embassy state that you have that 40k income from offshore and immigration will accept that letter

[PeaceBlondie]

The valid thing to speculate is whether the more recent changes are part of a pattern that continues into the foreseeable future. You cannot foresee the future in Thailand.

If they increase the limits/restrictions enough, we'd all be illegal here.

[Phil Conners]

There is no requirement to bring 40kin Thailand every month. Just get your Embassy state that you have that 40k income from offshore and immigration will accept that letter

As has been pointed out several times already, most embassies want proof of the income and so does immigration here. You can't just go to your embassy and have them write a letter saying you have 40K income per month without any proof. The problem is a lot of people don't have any guaranteed income. Like myself, I have plenty of investments that easily produce several times this limit - but it is not guaranteed by anyone. Whatever market the investments are in could crash tomorrow and therefore most embassies will not certify it. Stupid perhaps, but that's bureaucracy for you.

[Fred Sanford]

I thought the 400K option was already done away with except for grandfathered persons. I would never ever be surprised to see them dump the grandfathered people,in fact I quite expected that one. So what's different here? I see same same-o

[Fred Sanford]

When the rule changed from 400K in bank to 40K income, it was shaky at best for folks on the 400K visa deal to rely on this "grandfathering" of their situation to continue in definitely. This is not the US where the grandfathering concept is a lifetime event. This is a bumout but for me it's not a surprise in any way shape or form.

[Fred Sanford]

JR Texas: Thanks........I truly believe it is critical that we--the members of the expat community--open our eyes wide and speak the truth. Yes, we will disagree......but it seems obvious that the govt. is intent on raising the bar until it reaches all of us.....how much more proof do we need?

Now.....maybe some numbers will put this problem in proper perspective. Those of us with experience in Thailand know that the vast majority of Thai families (with one bread earner) earn about 5000 baht per month (4000-6000 baht per month).

But a "mixed" farang-Thai family must earn 45,000 baht per month, 9 times more than a "pure" Thai family. There is no good reason for this. And, surely, it has nothing to do with crime.

Shift to the USA: The average "pure" American family (with one bread earner) earns about $2083 per month. What would a Thai male married to an American female think about USA immigration policy if he was required to earn 9 times that amount, or $18,747 per month?

It seems obvious to me that the Thai system is extremely unfair, cruel and, sadly, deliberately designed to break up mixed farang-Thai families.

A few years back one only needed 200K in the bank. BUT, too many farang-Thai families were able to meet that requirement. So the bar was raised to 400K. BUT, too many farang-Thai families still managed to meet that requirement. SO, the money in the bank requirement was dropped and replaced by a 45K monthly income requirement.......slightly more than the average pension of a retired US worker.

Fairness would dictate changing the law to something like 100K in the bank OR 5K per month income. Given that will likely never happen, perhaps they will change it to 200K in the bank OR 10K per month income.

The "OR" is critical........ask yourself why they are not providing mixed farang-Thai families that option. Can you say xenophobia? I am sorry but that is what it appears to be.

Having said that, I do not think that most Thais would support this new law if they truly understood its implications.

JR,

I think you are right on the money. The more I see these changes it just makes me sick. The bar is just constantly being raised or changed to deliberately reduce the number of farang/foreigners in the kingdom. It won't stop until the number has been reduced to what the people in charge think is an acceptable level.

Many people, who are currently unaffected, seem to think it is ok. However, one day, more likely than not, many of these individuals will also be adversely affected by similar changes which will make their status here a difficult, if not impossible, one to maintain.

It doesn't really seem that the expat communtiy can have any real influence on these events, or are united enough to do so even if we could, but maybe I'm wrong. Our only hope seems to be that with the advent of a new government, there might be a change in policy. However, when one looks at the steady erosion in the situation for farang/foreigners in Thailand since 2000, it appears unlikely for this to happen, and we appear to be in a downward cycle that might take a significant period of time to change. How long do these cycles last? Ten years? A generation?

There were a whole lot of people gloating when the visa exemption stamp rules went into effect Oct 1. Just go back and read some of those threads and nasty reponses from some people fortunate enough to have sorted visa situations. I am certain that some of these people are now getting the shaft on this marriage thing. We all need to take care before we speak as our own situations can change over night.

[Fred Sanford]

When I extended my extension based on marriage this February (I got it in 2005 first) they first wanted to see 1 Year of paid taxes (I have a WP and income since September last Year). So I applied again with 400000 in Bank. Got approved (but so late on the 30th day that I could not renew my WP, was lucky that Chonburi believed the story the next working day, and extended it!), but was told that I cannot do it with money in the bank next Year.

Lets see what happens. Pattaya Immigration might have knowledge of a until now unpublished new rule. Or (I rather bet my life's savings on this horse!) they have no clue as well as no respect for the rules, and just do as they please.

Sunny

whatever you do, do not bet your life savings on Grandfather because he has cancer and will die on Oct 1

[Naam]

There were a whole lot of people gloating when the visa exemption stamp rules went into effect Oct 1. Just go back and read some of those threads and nasty reponses from some people fortunate enough to have sorted visa situations. I am certain that some of these people are now getting the shaft on this marriage thing. We all need to take care before we speak as our own situations can change over night.

i joined this forum in september, scoured each and every thread for some valuable information and i do not recall a single "gloating" posting the sort you mentioned.

[soundman]

whatever you do, do not bet your life savings on Grandfather because he has cancer and will die on Oct 1

On 6th of April this year I renewed my yearly extension based on old 400K rule. Immigration then made both my wife and myself sign a statement that if we wanted to use the same rule next year, we both understood the 400K had to be in the bank for 3 months. This statement that we signed is obviously kept in my own personal file in immigration.

Immigration may change the rules again, but at the present time the officers are under the impression that those who are eligable to use the 400K rule this year can do so again next year.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[Fred Sanford]

whatever you do, do not bet your life savings on Grandfather because he has cancer and will die on Oct 1

On 6th of April this year I renewed my yearly extension based on old 400K rule. Immigration then made both my wife and myself sign a statement that if we wanted to use the same rule next year, we both understood the 400K had to be in the bank for 3 months. This statement that we signed is obviously kept in my own personal file in immigration.

Immigration may change the rules again, but at the present time the officers are under the impression that those who are eligable to use the 400K rule this year can do so again next year.

Cheers,

Soundman.

I hope so soundman. Good luck to you and those in the same situation.

[Fred Sanford]

There were a whole lot of people gloating when the visa exemption stamp rules went into effect Oct 1. Just go back and read some of those threads and nasty reponses from some people fortunate enough to have sorted visa situations. I am certain that some of these people are now getting the shaft on this marriage thing. We all need to take care before we speak as our own situations can change over night.

i joined this forum in september, scoured each and every thread for some valuable information and i do not recall a single "gloating" posting the sort you mentioned.

sounds like you have a unsympathetic, negative, unhelpful poster filter software on your computer. send it to me. in the meantime, anyone can do a search on such Sept posts on the visa change from the likes of Bendix, 'nuff said and others to get a feel for this gloating attitude. In more recent times, look at todays postings from Neeranam and Maigo to get same type attitude

Edited May 13, 2007 by Fred Sanford

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm not a gloater, and I don't have a goatee or a goat. But yes, if a guy had no decent visa last October, he might have inferred a gloating attitude from those of us who had better visas. But we should not gloat, because the stakes can be raised, and we'll be sitting on the other side of Thai borders asking what happened.

If you love living in this country (not just for intimate companionship, but the entire enchilada of Thailand), stay. If you only like some parts, stay anyway. If you can't stand the place, why stay? If you really can't leave, why whinge or whine or wind yourself up?

[click2delete]

whatever you do, do not bet your life savings on Grandfather because he has cancer and will die on Oct 1

On 6th of April this year I renewed my yearly extension based on old 400K rule. Immigration then made both my wife and myself sign a statement that if we wanted to use the same rule next year, we both understood the 400K had to be in the bank for 3 months. This statement that we signed is obviously kept in my own personal file in immigration.

Immigration may change the rules again, but at the present time the officers are under the impression that those who are eligable to use the 400K rule this year can do so again next year.

Cheers,

Soundman.

Take that paper into the shitter with you and use it appropriately. It will suffice more as toilet paper than a guarantee - the promise made to you has been rescinded.

After Oct 1 you will no longer be able to show 400,000 in the bank as a reason to stay while married to and supporting a Thai.

Over.

Fini.

Kaput.

You can take that to the bank.

[soundman]

whatever you do, do not bet your life savings on Grandfather because he has cancer and will die on Oct 1

On 6th of April this year I renewed my yearly extension based on old 400K rule. Immigration then made both my wife and myself sign a statement that if we wanted to use the same rule next year, we both understood the 400K had to be in the bank for 3 months. This statement that we signed is obviously kept in my own personal file in immigration.

Immigration may change the rules again, but at the present time the officers are under the impression that those who are eligable to use the 400K rule this year can do so again next year.

Cheers,

Soundman.

Take that paper into the shitter with you and use it appropriately. It will suffice more as toilet paper than a guarantee - the promise made to you has been rescinded.

After Oct 1 you will no longer be able to show 400,000 in the bank as a reason to stay while married to and supporting a Thai.

Over.

Fini.

Kaput.

You can take that to the bank.

That's where you are being a touch naieve there Mr. click.

Can't take anything to the bank with regards to laws, policy or whatever at govt. level in Thailand, especially something that might be the opinion of one person, who may be part of a much larger commitee, and is just letting it fly over finger foods & whiskey.

Cheers,

Soundman.

Edited May 13, 2007 by soundman

[Fred Sanford]

Oh and I meant to putin my last post that guys like Peaceblondie, thaiquila and others were most sympathetic and understanding about the problems being created for many by the new rules. These guys and others realize the stakes for people affected now and those potentially later

[JR Texas]

The valid thing to speculate is whether the more recent changes are part of a pattern that continues into the foreseeable future. You cannot foresee the future in Thailand.

If they increase the limits/restrictions enough, we'd all be illegal here.

JR Texas to PeaceBlondie: I always find your posts informative and based on compassion and knowledge. Predicting the future is a game of probabilities. The pattern that has been set in motion since 2000 is clear. There is no reason to assume that the bar will not be raised further and that more of the grandfathered visa solutions will be abrogated.

We are, I think, in the middle of a massive shift in the way immigrants are treated. And it is happening worldwide. Technically, social scientists are labeling this as the securitization of migration (lots of scientific papers on it for those that are interested).

It started with the Bad Bush and 9/11....Toxin the Maginificent, with his perverse ideas about wealth and quality human beings, just seized on the opportunity to rid Thailand of all but the most wealthy expats.....rapid visa changes took place after Hambali was arrested in Thailand....Toxin stirred the flames of xenophobia and, under the guise of security, was given the freedom to enact his anti-expat plan.

The visa changes Toxin put in place should have been flushed down the toilet after the military gave him the boot. But, sadly, they were warmly embraced by the new leadership. And, now, the new leadership is making the visa situation even worse.

How can we change this sorry situation?

One way would be for all of us to leave and for tourists to stop coming. That is not going to happen (but surely many expats will leave and fewer tourists are arriving already). We can, however, send them a small message by greatly reducing our expenditures.

Another way would be to form an expat pseudo-union of sorts--like the Mexican-Americans have in the USA--and start protesting in the streets with Thai shopowners that care about the problem......we could get petitions signed from shop owners to reverse the negative visa changes, and we could voice our concerns at our embassies/consulates, etc. That will also not happen and the govt. would probably arrest all of us and deport us.

We can voice our opinions in the newspapers.....provided, of course, they get past the censors at the government run Bangkok Post and Nation.

The only solution that I can see is for a new administration with a brain to take the reigns of government. Is that possible? Anything is possible. But is it probable? Not likely in my view.

Unfortuantely, people with brains are no longer allowed to run for political office--this is especially true in my own country, the USA.

Nobody wants my advice, but here it goes: Make sure you have an exit strategy before they come knocking at your door.

A Thai friend of mine just told me "Sihanoukville (in Cambodia for those that do not know) just might become a small Phuket in the future." If they keep raising the bar, it just might!

Good luck! We all need it.

[jumnien]

Wow, rulers in Thailand have no brains, rulers in the US have no brains, gee, you must be a genius! And HUMBLE to boot! I think they have a special visa category for farang who are brilliant in every way!