Poll- Do You Feel That Thailand Wants You Or Wants You Out?

[PeaceBlondie]

I will be discreet and not discuss the depth of my four years of deep interaction with Thais.

[ColPyat]

I will be discreet and not discuss the depth of my four years of deep interaction with Thais.

[astral]

Probably want most of the trash out, but I don't get the feeling they want the experts out or people with family.

Probably right, but it is all relative.

The immigration officer handling your request may not earn more than 20K per month,

but his wife works as well.

The family with a farang head is expected to show an income of 40K per month.

The single, retired, farang needs 65K

No logic in all this.

[jumnien]

It is not logical to look for logic amongst government policy.

[BAF]

I am sorry, but i am not exactly impressed. There are people with far more years of "deep interaction", who did not leave when the period of 'i am sick of third world countries' set in.

You have grandly missed it.

I left ONLY once (and ONLY because) I got married since I knew that no normal life is possible in Thailand (and in practically ANY other 3rd world country).

Were I still a single guy I would still be happily living in Thailand and happily enjoying the only kind of life 3rd world countries like Thailand are great for.

I am still looking at Thailand as my "Plan B" in case I and my wife parted ways.

And since there isn't any indication that it could possibly be any time soon, I take all of these news about new regs, restrictions, laws, coups, FBAs etc as very good news because they are what are going to give Thailand a much needed kick in the ass and will (hopefully) make it once again a good and "welcoming" playground for my possible future needs...

Until Thailand changes (or at least even begins to want to change) its 3rd world culture, it's bound to stay, deservingly, a 3rd world country.

My personal interests and wishes for the future of Thailand are largely coincident with the Thai ruling classes' ...

[borracho]

"Do I "feel" thailand is out to get me"???

I just love how vacuously the question is worded.

It's even more entertaining to see how the moderator took it upon himself to modify the vacuity.

Like zero plus zero actually equals something!!!

It's astonishing how limited peoples mathematics skills are these days.

But I guess there isn't a calculator for common sense!

[kmart]

To you and Colpyat: in how many countries have you seen so many young women working as construction workers and garbage collectors as in the "Land of Smiles"?

Care to list a few of them?

In many under-developed and developing countries. India especially, far more than here in Thailand.

Very true. Most of S. Asia, especially. It frees up time for a lot of asian male adults to skulk around, smoking dope and growing their fingernails.

There are as many "Asian Male adults" skulking around, as there are females doing that and similar. This is only natural in societies with huge social problems and inequalities. But there are far more people of both genders working extremely hard to provide for their families, trying to better the children's opportunities against all odds.

The only problem is that you rarely meet them skulking around because they will be busy working, and the rest of the time spending the precious little free time they have with their families, and not drinking and skulking with farang with an opinion, a considerable lack of knowledge, and far too much free time in the bar areas.

Pfft!

Oh boohoo. Perhaps you should go over there and step in for Mother Theresa? And you certainly don't appear to be short of free time yourself, matey?

[dumspero]

BAF- Your posts are stunning! You are so certain that it's all about you and that your views are the only true view about Thais. The rest of us, for example, who doubt that "most" rural Thai men are drunken lazy good-for-nothings are "blind day dreaming apologists."

Have you even considered how many working age males in the average Thai village you've visited are away working for the day/week nearby? How many are working elsewhere in Thailand? How many are working in another country? Have you really interviewed a sufficient number of rural Thais in sufficient depth to form a meaningful view re most rural Thais?

Have you considered how deeply you are insulting the family members, loved ones and friends of other posters? Yet when posters differ from your views you are quick to turn on them. Wow.

Now you've added to your sweeping, simplistic generalizations even further. You can only have a "normal" life in a country like the US; certainly not in a thrid world country. And who cares what happens to Thailand because you won't be there. Wow.

As pointed out above, in time you may see that most expats everywhere go through bitter stages, and some never escape such bitterness. Right now, it's all about you and how, with your vastly deeper and otherwise superior knowledge of Thais, you know how bad "most not all" Thai men are. Wow. Well, you won't see me generalize about Italian males from your posts. But wow.

[Edonista]

Much of this is due to the new visa regs which encourage a one year visa and the sense of security and belonging that comes with that as opposed to the old "run to the border" ridiculousness of years past.

I tell you, now that I have to fly to Penang or Singapore or Vientiane to ask for a tourist visa that can be denied me at officer's caprice, I feel so much more secure then before when I could just make a visa run to Ban Laem and be back by 4 p.m.

Just get a one year visa and join the rest of the crowd. It's really not that difficult and you'll feel a lot better and lighter without the weight of that iron chip on your shoulder.

Perhaps in your dream world you are not aware of the fact that there are no visa options at all for who is under 50 , unmarried to a Thai, and not so fool to set up a company of which you must pay 100% but can own only a 49% quote.

[nick2k]

wow. this thread really has some readers. so, what are my 2 cents?...

personally, I enjoy living in thailand a lot. but it is purely an economic choice. if it starts to cost me too much to live here, I will leave. there are other places where I can go to if need be. in fact, I could leave in a weeks notice. on a days notice if the situation is life threatening.

how do I feel about the way the government is treating us foreigners?..

I feel they have the right to do what they want. even though they make decisions on many things that I don't like, I realize that this is their option since this is their country. but then, realizing this, I have long ago decided not to invest my money here or any other country other than my home country of america.

frankly, I feel we who live here are in the same boat as the illegal immigrants who are living in america. we have no rights, and we shouldn't have any rights because we are not citizens of the country.

[jumnien]

Much of this is due to the new visa regs which encourage a one year visa and the sense of security and belonging that comes with that as opposed to the old "run to the border" ridiculousness of years past.

I tell you, now that I have to fly to Penang or Singapore or Vientiane to ask for a tourist visa that can be denied me at officer's caprice, I feel so much more secure then before when I could just make a visa run to Ban Laem and be back by 4 p.m.

Just get a one year visa and join the rest of the crowd. It's really not that difficult and you'll feel a lot better and lighter without the weight of that iron chip on your shoulder.

Perhaps in your dream world you are not aware of the fact that there are no visa options at all for who is under 50 , unmarried to a Thai, and not so fool to set up a company of which you must pay 100% but can own only a 49% quote.

I believe Thailand is still giving visas to those under 50 who are working legally in the Kingdom. Fear of work can be devastating to some individuals, but with proper therapeutic intervention and group support many previously incapable of working have found release from their condition.

[ColPyat]

Perhaps in your dream world you are not aware of the fact that there are no visa options at all for who is under 50 , unmarried to a Thai, and not so fool to set up a company of which you must pay 100% but can own only a 49% quote.

I am way below 50, not officially married, have no company, and still work legally self-employed. It just depends on your profession. Do your research.

[jumnien]

I would assume there are tens of thousands of foreigners under 50, unmarried to a Thai, without companies who are living legally in Thailand.

[ColPyat]

Pfft!

Oh boohoo. Perhaps you should go over there and step in for Mother Theresa? And you certainly don't appear to be short of free time yourself, matey?

I have lots of free time. That though is not spent whinging and whining in expat bars.

And, matey, thanks a lot, in case i might be in need for idiotic suggestions on what to do with my life, i'll come to you.

[Edonista]

Much of this is due to the new visa regs which encourage a one year visa and the sense of security and belonging that comes with that as opposed to the old "run to the border" ridiculousness of years past.

I tell you, now that I have to fly to Penang or Singapore or Vientiane to ask for a tourist visa that can be denied me at officer's caprice, I feel so much more secure then before when I could just make a visa run to Ban Laem and be back by 4 p.m.

Just get a one year visa and join the rest of the crowd. It's really not that difficult and you'll feel a lot better and lighter without the weight of that iron chip on your shoulder.

Perhaps in your dream world you are not aware of the fact that there are no visa options at all for who is under 50 , unmarried to a Thai, and not so fool to set up a company of which you must pay 100% but can own only a 49% quote.

I believe Thailand is still giving visas to those under 50 who are working legally in the Kingdom. Fear of work can be devastating to some individuals, but with proper therapeutic intervention and group support many previously incapable of working have found release from their condition.

I have no fear of working, but I fear losses.

And with today's rules a farang small business is doomed to lose money.

For sure trips to neighbouring embassies would be way cheaper.

If the only upgrade available from my current sexpat status is the moron status, I prefer to stay sexpat.

By the way, considering you stated nor you nor your wife work, what do you have to teach others about work ethic ?

[Eman]

I can only conclude from the actions of the Thai Government, that they want us to leave. Personally I hope we all leave and when I say we, I'm not referring to the whoremongers who come here for a week or two of quickies. I refer to the people like me who have moved here, married, had a child or children and wanted to make Thailand their home.

This country has made promises, contracts, and implied contracts with the foreigners who come here to live only to poke them in the eye at every stage. I am not 50 years old. I am not what Thailand would describe as a retiree but I was able to move here, get a visa extension based on my marriage to a Thai and now we have a child.

I have just found out in order for me to continue getting 1 year extension to my original O visa, I or my wife must go out and get a job to show the Thai Government that we have an income. I don't need a job, nor do I wish to spend my time working. I don't want my wife working either. Bringing up a boy is enough work.

I'm angry.

I came here on a pretext or a contract. The Thai government said if you're under 50 and you marry and support a Thai, you show 400,000 baht in a bank account, fill out our paperwork, and we make your life easier by not forcing you to make visa runs. Fair enough - I came, married a Thai - filled out their paperwork and got my extension.

Now they pull the rug out from under me and expect me to smile that stupid smile like a sheep getting sheared. I'm not a sheeple. There was a contract, there was consideration and there was agreement, and now they have violated the terms.

Most of you are probably here on a retirement visa so your ox isn't being gored. Do you care? Probably not until they come for you. When they change your requirement from 800,000 baht in the bank to 1.5 million or 2 million you might start bitching. At what price will you start twitching?

The retired man or woman on a fixed income doesn't have the luxury of coming up with more baht to put in the bank. Will you scoff at them the Thais renig on their promise?

It has been one thing after another. What or who will be next? Maybe you.

If only his Nick actually worked as advertised....

[ColPyat]

I am sorry, but i am not exactly impressed. There are people with far more years of "deep interaction", who did not leave when the period of 'i am sick of third world countries' set in.

You have grandly missed it.

I left ONLY once (and ONLY because) I got married since I knew that no normal life is possible in Thailand (and in practically ANY other 3rd world country).

Were I still a single guy I would still be happily living in Thailand and happily enjoying the only kind of life 3rd world countries like Thailand are great for.

Thanks for making my point - 4 years on the fringe, convinced to know everything, and not able to make a living here, and bitter because of it.

Yawn.

[Edonista]

I am sorry, but i am not exactly impressed. There are people with far more years of "deep interaction", who did not leave when the period of 'i am sick of third world countries' set in.

You have grandly missed it.

I left ONLY once (and ONLY because) I got married since I knew that no normal life is possible in Thailand (and in practically ANY other 3rd world country).

Were I still a single guy I would still be happily living in Thailand and happily enjoying the only kind of life 3rd world countries like Thailand are great for.

Thanks for making my point - 4 years on the fringe, convinced to know everything, and not able to make a living here, and bitter because of it.

Yawn.

Your post has simply no logic link with the quoted one.

[jumnien]

Almost 300 posts and I don't know conclusively:

Does Thailand really want me? Let me put it another way.

Does Thailand really want ME? The real me, the authentic me, my inner child, my raging beast, my warrior, my slave.

Thailand, do your really love me?

Thailand, will you give me a hug!

Thailand, I need a hug!

General Sondhi, will you hold me and tell me you love me?

My God (that would be Buddha), what do these people want. Apply for a visa and if they give you one then stay. If you can't get a visa, then come up with a plan B. Be creative and cheerful!

[Edonista]

I can only conclude from the actions of the Thai Government, that they want us to leave. Personally I hope we all leave and when I say we, I'm not referring to the whoremongers who come here for a week or two of quickies. I refer to the people like me who have moved here, married, had a child or children and wanted to make Thailand their home.

This country has made promises, contracts, and implied contracts with the foreigners who come here to live only to poke them in the eye at every stage. I am not 50 years old. I am not what Thailand would describe as a retiree but I was able to move here, get a visa extension based on my marriage to a Thai and now we have a child.

I have just found out in order for me to continue getting 1 year extension to my original O visa, I or my wife must go out and get a job to show the Thai Government that we have an income. I don't need a job, nor do I wish to spend my time working. I don't want my wife working either. Bringing up a boy is enough work.

I'm angry.

I came here on a pretext or a contract. The Thai government said if you're under 50 and you marry and support a Thai, you show 400,000 baht in a bank account, fill out our paperwork, and we make your life easier by not forcing you to make visa runs. Fair enough - I came, married a Thai - filled out their paperwork and got my extension.

Now they pull the rug out from under me and expect me to smile that stupid smile like a sheep getting sheared. I'm not a sheeple. There was a contract, there was consideration and there was agreement, and now they have violated the terms.

Most of you are probably here on a retirement visa so your ox isn't being gored. Do you care? Probably not until they come for you. When they change your requirement from 800,000 baht in the bank to 1.5 million or 2 million you might start bitching. At what price will you start twitching?

The retired man or woman on a fixed income doesn't have the luxury of coming up with more baht to put in the bank. Will you scoff at them the Thais renig on their promise?

It has been one thing after another. What or who will be next? Maybe you.

If only his Nick actually worked as advertised....

The reality he describes would still be there, and would still bite you no matter how strong you close your eyes.

[cdnvic]

And with today's rules a farang small business is doomed to lose money.

This must be a great surprise to the many successful businesses in Thailand run by farangs.

[jumnien]

"There was a contract, there was consideration and their was agreement, now they have violated the terms."

Do I detect a hint of arrogance and self-importance? Delusion?

When I apply for a visa for Myanmar or Kenya or anywhere else, I really don't expect that I'm putting the entire country under contract or expect that if I'm a bit dismayed I can try the political leaders in world court or seek renumeration. I'm a guest and when I'm asked to leave I'll go. But I'm not going to make it unbearable for them to have me here and force them to make me leave.

[BAF]

BAF- Your posts are stunning! You are so certain that it's all about you and that your views are the only true view about Thais.

Since I focus on facts and arguments I don't feel the need to personalize the thread like you do evidently having nothing else to offer.

This thread is all about Thailand wanting us out or not.

The rest of us, for example, who doubt that "most" rural Thai men are drunken lazy good-for-nothings are "blind day dreaming apologists."

I'm generalizing...

And I do have said that rural Thai men mostly do their share of the work in the villages.

My point was that their share is less than rural Thai women's share.

Are you confuting that or not?

Have you even considered how many working age males in the average Thai village you've visited are away working for the day/week nearby? How many are working elsewhere in Thailand? How many are working in another country?

Have YOU even considered how many working age FEmales in the average Thai villages I've visited are away working for the day/week nearby? How many are working elsewhere in Thailand? How many are working in another country?

Have you really interviewed a sufficient number of rural Thais in sufficient depth to form a meaningful view re most rural Thais?

Mine wasn't meant as a scientific research, was the result of my personal experiences, which I think are worth of consideration much more that the average typical experiences (and the understanding they have of them) of those "blind daydreaming Thai apologists" who very often don't speak Thai (a basic and most important pre-requisite) and/or haven't even lived in Thailand for a significant lenght of time...

And anyway, scientific researches, numbers and stats to work on, are very difficult to come by in these type of countries and their reliability, when they exist and you get them from the authorities, is mostly of the "laughable grade".

Have you considered how deeply you are insulting the family members, loved ones and friends of other posters?

???

I thought this was a discussion between adults...

Now you've added to your sweeping, simplistic generalizations even further. You can only have a "normal" life in a country like the US; certainly not in a thrid world country.

That's not what I said, that's what you understood, which is something completely different.

I said I can't have a normal (to me) life in any 3rd world country (like Thailand). I can anywhere in the West.

If it sounds so out of the world to you well, we have different concepts of normal family lives. I'm glad your family is doing great in Thailand.

And who cares what happens to Thailand because you won't be there. Wow.

WOW, you have managed to almost completely turn upside down what i've said

I DO care because I COULD be there!

And why should I feel a moral obligation to wish Thailand well anyway?

In case you didn't know, countries compete with each other.

We are the only fools to talk so much about helping others beating us (and actually helping them sometimes)...

As pointed out above, in time you may see that most expats everywhere go through bitter stages, and some never escape such bitterness. Right now, it's all about you and how, with your vastly deeper and otherwise superior knowledge of Thais, you know how bad "most not all" Thai men are. Wow. Well, you won't see me generalize about Italian males from your posts. But wow.

I haven't any special point to make about Thai men, believe me. I have just been confuting others' replies to one of the OP's points since I felt they were wrong.

...And Italian men are more lazy/less hard working than English men

[jumnien]

Get off yer arse and get a job!

Wiser words were never written. All hail, Neeranam! 300 posts later and it still rings true!

[qwertz]

The transition from living in a safe, comfortable welfare state to the typical day to day life in a land like LOS is difficult, if not impossible, for many farangs. The guarantees they were used to back home don't apply there. The frequent changes of government policy wouldn't be relevant in lands with a safety net. It pays to be aware that LOS and other Asian lands have made no provision for lasting farang security. I have everything I need in this cold northern land, except the warmth and comfort of a long leisurely break in LOS, which I can easily finance by staying where I am to earn for it, so I have the best of both worlds. IMO, my way is best.

[PeaceBlondie]

Personal opinion; disagree as you wish, within the forum rules. Now,this may betray my credentials as a flaming liberal, but Thailand doesn't owe any of us aliens a living. They don't owe us a visa, or an extension of stay. If we fall into the categories (officially or permissively), we're legal and lucky. If not, we're illegal and unlucky. Don't cry for me, Pitsanalok, for Pete's sake.

But now I'll get in touch with my liberal inner child and say it's a terrible, immoral, indecent shame when a red-blooded American can't come to Thailand, impregnate a local, and then have everything just the way he wants. The USA ships back to Latin America similar young men if they're illegal, even if they're good parents.

But wait a minute, our original poster claims to have lots of bucks. Millions of dollars? Maybe not that much, but however much he has, is he one of those who has to get a better return on his dollars than the Banks of Bangkok and Ayuddyha give him? I'd take the difference in investment returns as a lost opportunity that I paid in exchange for living with my wife and kid. If I still wanted to live with my wife and 6 kids, instead of my boyfriend.

That's it in the long run: it's a matter of personal choices. We all want to live here (for now, at least), and it's a crying shame that Thailand doesn't have 89 different long term categories such as "moderately affluent non-working farang with wife and luk-krung, who thinks most Thai men including immigration officers, don't have a good work ethic."

[click2delete]

Just to lighten the spirit of things and encourage a little optimism with the OP I'll tell you a little secret. My wife is Thai, we have a child, I'm under 50 years old, I don't work, my wife doesn't work, we've never shown them evidence that I have a job outside of Thailand. We're just nice people and arrive every year at the immigration office with an attitude of deferrence and humility and above all humor. Sometimes it goes smooth as silk, some years it's been a couple times in and out the door and back in again - always it's been an adventure!

If your dream is to stay in Thailand and not work and stay married and take care of your wonderful son, I'm willing to be your mentor!

I'm willing to disembowel myself on your doorstep.

[qwertz]

Personal opinion; disagree as you wish, within the forum rules. Now,this may betray my credentials as a flaming liberal, but Thailand doesn't owe any of us aliens a living. They don't owe us a visa, or an extension of stay. If we fall into the categories (officially or permissively), we're legal and lucky. If not, we're illegal and unlucky. Don't cry for me, Pitsanalok, for Pete's sake.

But now I'll get in touch with my liberal inner child and say it's a terrible, immoral, indecent shame when a red-blooded American can't come to Thailand, impregnate a local, and then have everything just the way he wants. The USA ships back to Latin America similar young men if they're illegal, even if they're good parents.

But wait a minute, our original poster claims to have lots of bucks. Millions of dollars? Maybe not that much, but however much he has, is he one of those who has to get a better return on his dollars than the Banks of Bangkok and Ayuddyha give him? I'd take the difference in investment returns as a lost opportunity that I paid in exchange for living with my wife and kid. If I still wanted to live with my wife and 6 kids, instead of my boyfriend.

That's it in the long run: it's a matter of personal choices. We all want to live here (for now, at least), and it's a crying shame that Thailand doesn't have 89 different long term categories such as "moderately affluent non-working farang with wife and luk-krung, who thinks most Thai men including immigration officers, don't have a good work ethic."

Amen to that, PB. It's a hard world innit?

[BAF]

I am sorry, but i am not exactly impressed. There are people with far more years of "deep interaction", who did not leave when the period of 'i am sick of third world countries' set in.

You have grandly missed it.

I left ONLY once (and ONLY because) I got married since I knew that no normal life is possible in Thailand (and in practically ANY other 3rd world country).

Were I still a single guy I would still be happily living in Thailand and happily enjoying the only kind of life 3rd world countries like Thailand are great for.

Thanks for making my point - 4 years on the fringe, convinced to know everything, and not able to make a living here, and bitter because of it.

Yawn.

What is this supposed to mean?

I thought you were smarter than this.

I WAS "making a living" there, and a great one at that.

I was also ACTIVELY trying to avoid the situations (ie falling in love -> getting married -> raising a family) which would necessarily see me back at valuing and seeking normality, stability and safety, in other words, going back to the West.

If you are meaning that you have managed to find in Thailand normality, stability and safety for your children ("making a living"?) , then good luck to you.

And your children.

[GuestHouse]

The OP revealed the falicy of his own thinking in his very first line.

This country has made promises, contracts, and implied contracts with the foreigners

Thailand has made no promises, no contracts (implied or otherwise).

There are however minimum income/age requirements to be allowed a visa to live in Thailand - And let's be honest, the minimum income levels are pittiful.

So it dawns on some guy that he is not the rich foreigner he has been kidding himself he is, the truth is out.

The biggest lies foreigners hear in Thailand are the lies they tell themselves.

You either meet the visa requirements or you do not. If you do not, and anyone is to blame then it is you, not the Thai government.