Poll- Do You Feel That Thailand Wants You Or Wants You Out?

[click2delete]

Read the poll result.

by voting we submitted our opinion. opinions do not necessarily reflect facts.

I asked for opinion. If I had the inclination and money to throw around I would have hired Pew Research or Zogby for an official study.

Thanks so much for playing

Edited May 14, 2007 by click2delete

[click2delete]

Click- None of us know everything. We all have things to learn. Does the world really fit into your tendency to make sweeping, all-inclusive generalizations?

You exhibit very little respect for the right of a sovereign country to set the policies that it deems to be in the best interests of its citizens, including deciding which foreigners get to stay in-country. At least prior to warnings, you exhibited zero respect for Thai men. Even after the warnings, you complain about a Pravda-like effort to censor the "truth," as though your essentially baseless opinions about Thai men not working and all Thai men being bad are the "truth." Many of us with friends and loved ones who happen to be extremely hard working Thai men find that patently offensive.

Again, it's great that you love and focus on your young family. But your posts only provide evidence the Thai government is onto something with moves to contract against the dodgier farangs staying on long-term.

My son is Thai. So is my wife. Is the government really looking out for them? I think not.

Interesting how you have no problems putting words in my mouth - get your facts straight.

"dodgier" farangs?

You mean the people who get the red carpet treatment - the whoremongers who can do ###### near what they want - screw the women - drink until they fall down - ride drunk - those people?

Yes, let's get rid of the family men and keep the whoremongers. Only government could come up with that plan.

[jumnien]

My wife is Thai. My son is Thai. If I wasn't proud of their country and deeply appreciative of the people in their country I would move elsewhere. I see this as a land of incredible opportunity for my son. There is an instinctive emotional intelligence in many of the Thai people here that is not as apparent in my native land.

We all agree that we wish the Thai government would do a better job of weeding out the violent and criminal element amongst the foreigner population and that we do not support the lax visa enforcement of the past.

[mbkudu]

Why isn't working a market stall man's work?

The same reason driving a tuk-tuk or a taxi isn't a woman's job. Get it? It's cultural thing.

So, if I get it, in "Thai culture" construction working and garbage collecting are woman's job. Right?

P.S. I see you have just edited your post and added "In Indonesia the women do the women's jobs and the men's jobs." You should make up your mind and get clearer ideas and opinions before offering "explanations" with a "Get it?" attached to them.

True, the edit was a bit unfair, but anyhow, let's agree that women here are willing to do a wider variety of jobs, so that's why we appear to see them working more. Whether they work more or harder than Thai men is debatable and probably not worth debating. There are certain jobs that are traditionally men's jobs, like driving tuk-tuks and taxis. I've seen only one female taxi meter driver in my years here.

[BAF]

93 out of 45,000 TV's feel oh so maligned and unappreciated by the Thai government.

And 54 out of 45,000 TV's feel oh so welcomed and appreciated by Thailand...

I think if the Thai govt really wanted foreigners to leave you would not see the phenomenal growth we are seeing in the farang population. Compare the numbers of farangs living in Thailand decade by decade over the last fifty years here. Better yet, check out the increases in the last three. This last year or two here in Hua Hin the farang population has probably doubled. Much of this is due to the new visa regs which encourage a one year visa and the sense of security and belonging that comes with that as opposed to the old "run to the border" ridiculousness of years past.

What "population"?? What "living"?? Virtually all of them are nothing else than "long term tourists". How many of them (you included) have PR or any other "right" (paid-for concession) to stay for any longer than 1 (ONE) year at a time?

[traveldog]

BAF...interesting post. I am wishing you luck in America. Nursing is a great profession...and male nurses can pretty much pick your hospital-pay is getting ###### good too....but work is hard and demanding. The reciprocating sh@t comment is a bit over the top IMO....and in the US you may be on the recieving end-as an immigrant....especially with your Thai wife....racism and xenophobia are not limited to LOS...I am also confused...you state you don't need to work but are moving to America to work???? Anyway good luck with the move and your new profession.

Click, you have a lot thinking to do or maybe you have decided???? I was wondering your wife's view on all this? Does she like the idea of leaving, raising her child outside of LOS???? Have you really given up on the work permit/visa option. Teaching here is not that difficult if the crap wages are not a problem for you-and from your posting it seems that was not the issue. I agree with a lot of what you are saying about the govt. and overall crazy hazy ways....but what are the options? I left the USA....because of the crazy hazy ways there. I really feel the world is just going nuts and how you feel anywhere is a "safe" or "sane" place to raise a child is a real conundrum-and I truly wish you all the best with it. When things get so irritating here I just remember how it was where I lived before...what my quality of life was then vs. now....and I can put it in perspective. For me it's much better here...overall-somethings are definitely not but if you are choosing another lifestyle/country you will find things there have drawbacks/ hassles as well. When I first emigrated....I thought maybe I would stay here a while...then move to a "better" spot when I found one....well still looking....and most other countries I have investigated have major drawbacks.....like crazy govt, crime, crap medicine etd etc etc....well that's enough from me....I'm getting some Khao Dtom from the nice muslim lady down the block....B7 and arroi mak! Thanks again for a very interesting thread

[dumspero]

mdeland- well said.

[traveldog]

aack....forgot the one thing I really wanted to say to Click....forget about "Thai" role models.....as the father you are the role model....I know my dad was for me....not his friends, not teachers...him or you as it were. It doesn't matter where in the world you are as long as you put in the time/commitment etc with your child it should be all good....scratch that it will be great....so be a great dad

[jumnien]

Without getting into my conception of a higher power or the fundamental nature of the universe, I am not sure I have an entitlement to live anywhere for longer than one year at a time. I tend to take things one day at a time at most. Living in the immediate present is the best. Today, here; maybe tomorrow, not here. I don't live in fear or resentment over the reality of the need to adapt to circumstances as they arise.

Edited May 14, 2007 by mdeland

[Naam]

Read the poll result.

by voting we submitted our opinion. opinions do not necessarily reflect facts.

I asked for opinion. If I had the inclination and money to throw around I would have hired Pew Research or Zogby for an official study.

Thanks so much for playing

but your comment:

“There is nothing to fear except the persistent refusal to find out the truth, the persistent refusal to analyze the causes of happenings.”

Read the poll result.

indicates that you mistake opinions for facts. most of us understand very well that your are p*ssed off but that doesn't justify your hitting left and right as well as splitting hairs.

[click2delete]

mdeland- well said.

Why don't you throw in a prostrate exam while your guffawing and patting him on the back, it's the least you can do.

[BAF]

'Where were the men', asked the British? At that time, they were performing the socially sanctioned act of making merit by living as monks in the temples. Not all men were monks, but many were.

So, just how many of them were monks? You make it sound as if the British couldn't find them because MOST of them were living in the temples...

The British were very hard-pressed to convince the Burmese that England had the sort of progress that Burma should emulate.

The Burmese were shown pictures of Windsor Castle and other structures to prove the superiority of British civilisation; nevertheless, the grey walls at Windsor did not impress the Burmese who thought that the glittering gold of the Shwedagon Pagoda was far superior to anything Britain could produce.

Indeed, it seems the British haven't convinced the Burmese to emulate them.

Today the UK is one of the rich fat countries refugees (with Burmese amongst them) are flocking to and Burma is the isolated forgotten 4th world country whose starved citizens are trying to escape from to go slaving their lives away in a neighbouring 3rd world country such as Thailand where the illegal under-the-minimum wages they are handed out by their Thai chiefs are more than they can hope for at home...

The OP only has to look around a bit more carefully to find the men working.

And why is it that you haven't to look around any carefully at all to find women working?

For example, I have not seen too many female tuk-tuk drivers, truck and taxi drivers in Thailand.

Of course: when compared to farming and construction working, they are the "comfy" ones...

[click2delete]

Read the poll result.

by voting we submitted our opinion. opinions do not necessarily reflect facts.

I asked for opinion. If I had the inclination and money to throw around I would have hired Pew Research or Zogby for an official study.

Thanks so much for playing

but your comment:

"There is nothing to fear except the persistent refusal to find out the truth, the persistent refusal to analyze the causes of happenings."

Read the poll result.

indicates that you mistake opinions for facts. most of us understand very well that your are p*ssed off but that doesn't justify your hitting left and right as well as splitting hairs.

Perception is reality.

I asked people what they felt. Read the subject of the thread. The level of understanding even in its most basic form is frightening.

[November Rain]

I don't agree with the way that the OP has presented many of his points (the rant about Thai men, for instance), but his initial point about uncertainty for many of us, does ring very true with me. There are some of us that aren't rich. We perhaps came here with money, but things happen.

Before mdeland & Maigo6 start on me, too, I would just like to say to them, "At this present moment, I would be very happy to leave Thailand & all of the uncertainty in my life behind." I can't, however, not without abandoning my late BF's little boy to an orphanage & 140 dogs to homelessness. That, & only that is what keeps me in Thailand. I cannot adopt "my" son, I cannot take him out of Thailand, so I try to stay here. But who knows how long I will be allowed to stay & take care of him? I feel uncertainty & worry every day, too. I'm under 50, not married to a Thai & not rich, so I'm expecting to become dispensable very soon, if I'm not already.

Now, I am aware that my situation is not usual, I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying, I feel the OP's sense of unease, too. We're not all rich, we're not all secure. Yes, you can say I "shouldn't be here" then. I understand that. But, which of you would be happy to come along & explain that to my little boy, the one that's lived with me for nearly 4 years, the one that's lost his Dad & thinks I'm his Mum? The one that will be put into a children's home if I have to leave? Life isn't black & white - there are varying shades of grey.

[click2delete]

Without getting into my conception of a higher power or the fundamental nature of the universe, I am not sure I have an entitlement to live anywhere for longer than one year at a time. I tend to take things one day at a time at most. Living in the immediate present is the best. Today, here; maybe tomorrow, not here. I don't live in fear or resentment over the reality of the need to adapt to circumstances as they arise.

I so happy for you. Have you tried living in Rwanda - you'll get to test your fear and resentment there. I'm sure the Lord will watch over you.

Send me a postcard.

[richard10365]

With all the things that seem to be happening in Thailand with all the new rules that have a negative impact on farangs, it still seems a better place to live than my own country.

I live in Chiang Mai and I enjoy all the markets all over the place. I love the different restaurants and noodle stands everywhere. I think I have great neighbors who seem alot more friendly than my own country. I like the fact there's not a cop around every corner with a radar gun ready to pull me over if I go 1 mph over the speed limit. I love the cheap medical care I can get for myself and my family. I look forward to songran every year. I love the rainy season and enjoy the cool season here. I enjoy my fairly cheap rent for my house. I like the fact that I can buy a house (in my wifes or sons name) relatively cheap. I love looking and not seeing graffiti all over the walls in the city like they are in my own country. I love seeing kids who don't let their pants hang down see you can see their underwear.

I love Thailand. It's not perfect and has its share of faults but it's worth taking a chance on. If in the end, I end up losing all, at least I can look back on my life and say I took a chance in life instead of letting the fear of the unknown stop me.

[click2delete]

aack....forgot the one thing I really wanted to say to Click....forget about "Thai" role models.....as the father you are the role model....I know my dad was for me....not his friends, not teachers...him or you as it were. It doesn't matter where in the world you are as long as you put in the time/commitment etc with your child it should be all good....scratch that it will be great....so be a great dad

Agreed. I will be THE role model but he will likely have others of lesser importance - good teachers, The King if my boy lives here long enough - I won't be the sole role model.

Let's not forget about his mother.

There is also Grandpa who would be a bad role model. While he has calmed down due to old age and diabetes, he is still useless and fathered 7 children only 1 those children is worth any time at all.

I am likely to home school - the schools here suck and the international schools may not suck but they likely teach by a socialistic agenda -

Edited May 14, 2007 by click2delete

[dumspero]

Click- Would that be a "prostate" exam that you were swinging at with your clumsily wielded big stick? Maybe step back from the computer and take a few deep breaths...

Cheers.

p.s. In your search for a new home where you can sit around and not work while criticizing the local men for not working when they are--please don't come to the West Pacific. You'd only hate it--there are too many Thai men not working here (i.e. working their asses off in factories, construction jobs, etc.).

p.p.s. And in terms of finding a new place you won't hate. Well, that will be tough because it will be the same face in the mirror, no?

[click2delete]

Click- Would that be a "prostate" exam that you were swinging at with your clumsily wielded big stick? Maybe step back from the computer and take a few deep breaths...

Cheers.

p.s. In your search for a new home where you can sit around and not work while criticizing the local men for not working when they are--please don't come to the West Pacific. You'd only hate it--there are too many Thai men not working here (i.e. working their asses off in factories, construction jobs, etc.).

p.p.s. And in terms of finding a new place you won't hate. Well, that will be tough because it will be the same face in the mirror, no?

Einstein: I've made my money. Why the *@#(*#$*#$ should I go get a crap teaching job and lose 8 hours a day that I can spend with my son just because your comprehension of the English language is sorely lacking?

I have stated several times that money is not the issue. Read that sentence a few times, it might penetrate.

[qualtrough]

The OP comes to Thailand, and:

1. Meets a girl.

2. Get the girl pregnant.

3. Marries her.

4. Doesn't have a job.

5. Doesn't want a job.

6. Doesn't think Thai people are very warm and welcoming (Quote: I want my boy to grow up in a country full of warm people).

7. Uses his wife's dysfunctional family history as a springboard for painting all Thai men as scum.

Am I the only one here who is glad that he is having problems and that hopes that he will move away??

[Jai Dee]

OK people, let's keep the flames and personal insults out of this thread please.

[PeaceBlondie]

Great post, click2delete. Most of it (not ALL) was extremely well phrased and your examples and metaphors were spot-on.

It's only a detail, but I didn't come up with "a very caring diagnosis of my malady, that being I must suffer from a type of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome generated by my 5 week old son." I suggested that perhaps you might be suffering from the male equivalent to post-partum depression.

And you made many good points, including that your poll here, as shown at the top of the page, does indicate that 70% of 207 people voted either "Yes" or "Not Sure." Neither side of this debate should claim the "Mai Kojai" part of the vote, however. I voted with the 30% who said "No" because the way you phrased the question: "Do you feel that Thailand wants the foreigners out?" It's either too vaguely phrased or too generally phrased. Does Thailand mean almost the entire population of its citizens, or the policy-makers in Bangkok? Does foreigners mean all farang of European heritage, or all aliens currently in Thailand? Does out mean permanently and totally out of the country?

We chose to come and live more or less indefinitely in a country that ranks very high on the list of xenophobic countries, if not the #1 ranked country. We know that some aliens of European or Asian ancestry here are undesirables, by any reasonable definition. All countries have a duty to protect themselves against unwelcome incursions of undesirable aliens. All countries have a right to regulate immigration.

Unlike some countries, Thailand does not grant the same rights or privileges to aliens, as some other countries. My son got lucky in Ireland - the birth of his child entitled him to a green card, so he could work in Ireland.

click2delete, I hope you find a solution to your problem. Good luck.

[jumnien]

I'll drive him to the airport and I think other TV's will gladly chip in on airfare!

In the end, I think it would be rather cruel of the Thai government to give him a visa to stay in a country he so clearly loathes. Safe passage to another port is the only charitable thing to offer.

[dumspero]

Click- I know this is just an internet forum, but I don't buy it. All your overwhelming anger is coming from somewhere. And my own guess is that you don't have enough money. Not enough to live where and how you choose with your family. You thought you did and now it seems that you don't. Your level of frustration and anger would be rare for someone who can retire early with no money worries. Sure, one often sees boredom, cynicism and many other emotions. But rarely your kind of anger. Anyway, that's my guess.

Good luck to your family and you in the future.

[click2delete]

The OP comes to Thailand, and:

1. Meets a girl.

2. Get the girl pregnant.

3. Marries her.

4. Doesn't have a job.

5. Doesn't want a job.

6. Doesn't think Thai people are very warm and welcoming (Quote: I want my boy to grow up in a country full of warm people).

7. Uses his wife's dysfunctional family history as a springboard for painting all Thai men as scum.

Am I the only one here who is glad that he is having problems and that hopes that he will move away??

Let me help you with your nonsen .... er facts.

1. Meets lady on internet.

2. Meets lady in Thailand

3. Moves to Thailand.

4. Marries.

4a. She gets pregnant

5. Doesn't need a job.

6. Thai people are cold compared to Latins. That's a fact.

7. No springboard needed - There was a reason that my wife didn't want a Thai man.

Our Thai women friends also don't want Thai Men. That is almost 100 percent.

Does anyone know the percentage of Thai Men who have children but have abandoned their first wife only to find a "new lady?"

Again, my eyes tell this is the norm - and that is unfortunate.

Concerning your wishing problems on me - Flip Wilson said it best:

God will get you for that. Good luck.

Edited May 14, 2007 by click2delete

[farang prince]

Read the poll result.

by voting we submitted our opinion. opinions do not necessarily reflect facts.

I asked for opinion. If I had the inclination and money to throw around I would have hired Pew Research or Zogby for an official study.

Thanks so much for playing

but your comment:

"There is nothing to fear except the persistent refusal to find out the truth, the persistent refusal to analyze the causes of happenings."

Read the poll result.

indicates that you mistake opinions for facts. most of us understand very well that your are p*ssed off but that doesn't justify your hitting left and right as well as splitting hairs.

Perception is reality.

I asked people what they felt. Read the subject of the thread. The level of understanding even in its most basic form is frightening.

Click:

No one said life had to be fair. It usually isn't and you have to be prepared to deal with life's lousy twists and turns if you want to survive.

Second, I would suggest that you not make any major decisions while you are in such an agitated emotional state. Usually you will make the wrong decisions in such cases. Step back, take a deep breath, look at your options, talk with an immigration lawyer if necessary and consult with your wife. I have travelled all over the world and I can't recall a single place where the government wasn't trying to squeeze the last ounce of blood out of their citizens and the people doing business there.

Third, don't pay much attention to a lot of the people who post on Thai Visa. Many just want to read their name in print and don't offer much in constructive thought. And then you have the sharks...who just circle online trying to find someone who is wearing their heart on their sleeve like you are so they can flame them. It is probably time you walk away from the thread so you can get your thoughts together.

Edited May 14, 2007 by farang prince

[Ulysses G.]

Our Thai women friends also don't want Thai Men. That is almost 100 percent.

Anyone who actually thinks this is true needs help!

[bruceboy]

I am likely to home school - the schools here suck and the international schools may not suck but they likely teach by a socialistic agenda -

What is 'teach by socialist agenda' mean?

Noam Chomsky's books and writings make up the syllabus?

[ray23]

For the original poster, you know this really isn't all that complicated, your not happy here, perhaps another location that would be better for you and your family.

The last statement was specific for the poster, the following is general.

It amazes me how bright eyed people come here, when the can't adapt the first thing they want to do is tare the country down. When in fact in day to day living nothing is any different from day one till the day of the mad escape.

[Heng]

I can only conclude from the actions of the Thai Government, that they want us to leave.

It's business/political, not personal. They have nothing against the Eskimos or the Navajo here on a temporary visas either, although they too will be affected.