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How is an asupicious time/date calculated?


bluesofa

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As a non-believer, I'd still like to know if there's some logic as to how these are arrived at?

I've been involved (from the sidelines) in various house building projects.

 

My sister-in-law is building a house, and obviously she's been 'told' by the monks when they can erect a couple of reinforcing bars for the concrete pillars.

It was  today (22nd February) at 08:19. Why?

What does it have to do with any religion, not just buddhism?

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Thanks for the humorous replies!

However is there some way these dates and times are arrived at?

 

As an aside, I believe Easter in the christian church for example is calculated years in advance. I think it uses some planetary alignment to do with the moon? Hence it being a 'moveable feast' so to speak.

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8 hours ago, khaowong1 said:

I think most of it has to do with Moon phases.  On this day, Feb.22, 2021,  the Moon will be in a Waxing Gibbous phase. This phase is when the moon is more than 50% illuminated but not yet a Full Moon. The phase lasts about 7 days with the moon becoming more illuminated each day until the Full Moon.  Why this particular moon phase has to do with anything, I have no clue. My guess is, that it has something to do with the Buddha's involvement with something.  Maybe he took a shower during this moon phase or passed gas or something.  ????‍♂️

Thanks for the insight into how it works.

 

Not that I can see why it should, but I am interested about any system used to arrive with these figures.

If it is lunar based, how does that fit in with the philosophy of buddhism, and why? I'm guessing it's part of the mumbo-jjumbo that's evolved down the (more recent) centuries?

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5 hours ago, khaowong1 said:

You are correct, most of it is mumbo-jumbo.  I think most of the Buddhist holidays are centered around the full moon.  Probably because calender's back then were not very accurate and I'm pretty sure there were at least 2 different calender's used back then. And if I'm not mistaken, they also didn't have the days named yet, Monday, Tuesday, etc.  So again, we're down to mumbo-jumbo.

Do you know what any of the calendars were, and about how far back that goes?

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On 2/22/2021 at 2:47 AM, bluesofa said:

As an aside, I believe Easter in the christian church for example is calculated years in advance. I think it uses some planetary alignment to do with the moon? Hence it being a 'moveable feast' so to speak.

Yes, but amazing that his death is moved but his birth isn't

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3 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:
On 2/22/2021 at 9:47 AM, bluesofa said:

As an aside, I believe Easter in the christian church for example is calculated years in advance. I think it uses some planetary alignment to do with the moon? Hence it being a 'moveable feast' so to speak.

Yes, but amazing that his death is moved but his birth isn't

IIRC isn't the birth date and the year considered to be erroneous?

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Having been married to a Thai for 48 years, my advice is go with the flow.  If the monks/wife pick a particular date, don't buck the system.  You'll have hell to pay for when your roof collapses or an accident happens.  Believe what you may, but in all likelihood, you're operating on 110V, you wife is 220V.  If the gecko cries just before you're about to leave the house and the wife says suddenly not interested in going out, just go without her.  She knows better.

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In the West the notion that there is also something like the 'quality' of the time for starting something has been largely lost.

In Thailand (and other Far-Eastern countries) this notion is still very much alive and disposing it as 'mumbo-jumbo' only shows our Western arrogance and ignorance on matters which we are not familiar with because outside of our belief-system.

I am not saying that the monks determining that auspicious time are always 'in the know', but that doesn't mean that there is much more to this matter than superstitious beliefs.

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On 2/22/2021 at 9:20 AM, bluesofa said:

As a non-believer, I'd still like to know if there's some logic as to how these are arrived at?

I've been involved (from the sidelines) in various house building projects.

 

My sister-in-law is building a house, and obviously she's been 'told' by the monks when they can erect a couple of reinforcing bars for the concrete pillars.

It was  today (22nd February) at 08:19. Why?

What does it have to do with any religion, not just buddhism?

To understand and indulge in this  rubbish this requires a  full frontal lobotomy, once you realise this then you  know how  Thailand works.

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Bluesofa, when ever some villager came to the temple and asked the abbot to pick a date for this or that, he would open this book, kind of like a Thai version of the Farmers Almanac, consult it and give a date.  I couldn't read it as it was in Thai.  I asked about where he got it but never got a answer that I could even understand.  So, I have no clue.  

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9 hours ago, khaowong1 said:

Bluesofa, when ever some villager came to the temple and asked the abbot to pick a date for this or that, he would open this book, kind of like a Thai version of the Farmers Almanac, consult it and give a date.  I couldn't read it as it was in Thai.  I asked about where he got it but never got a answer that I could even understand.  So, I have no clue.  

Thanks for an answer to my question, there is a book to refer to. 'Farmers Almanac' - the best time to plant your house. ????

Finding out more about the thinking behind it might be more difficult.

 

Even though this is the buddhism forum, it has attracted a lot who aren't interested in finding out any reasoning that may be behind it.

Even as an atheist it doesn't stop me wanting to understand where the thinking might come from, then being able to make a (hopefully) informed critical response.

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13 hours ago, bluesofa said:

Thanks for an answer to my question, there is a book to refer to. 'Farmers Almanac' - the best time to plant your house. ????

Finding out more about the thinking behind it might be more difficult.

 

Even though this is the buddhism forum, it has attracted a lot who aren't interested in finding out any reasoning that may be behind it.

Even as an atheist it doesn't stop me wanting to understand where the thinking might come from, then being able to make a (hopefully) informed critical response.

I have a couple of monks in Thailand I still talk to, I'll ask them and see if I can't get an answer we would understand.  Might take me a day or two.  

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4 hours ago, kokesaat said:

There's some (dated) discussion of this on another forum https://www.udonmap.com/udonthaniforum/auspicious-days-t24490.html

...

I'd be interested if anyone has put together a smorgasbord of these beliefs into a single book.

As I wrote earlier > there is much more to this matter than superstitious beliefs.

Thanks for the link, will check it out.

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Yes it never fails to amaze me either  that given a large majority of the the so-called Thai monkhood are men hiding the justice system and/or carrying on out-with Buddhist beliefs, and the village generally are aware of these dubious character's past, yet still give them credit for coming up with auspicious dates.  Once a con-man always a con man perhaps ?

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9 hours ago, kokesaat said:

There's some (dated) discussion of this on another forum https://www.udonmap.com/udonthaniforum/auspicious-days-t24490.html

I see there's a reference above to Chinese calendars showing these types of auspicious dates.

 

I did a search and found this:  https://www.chinesecalendaronline.com/   

A Chinese lunar calendar telling you clearly auspicious times and dates for house building, weddings, etc.

Looks like that's where all these dates come from.

 

At the bottom I can even search for auspicious dates for a various events, even a  haircut - remember Wednesdays is a no-no for haircutting.

 

However, in my particular example of 22 Feb at 08:19 to start building a house, that appears on this calendar as only for a sacrifice, and to avoid anything else.

I was hoping we'd got to the bottom of where the dates come from. Perhaps 'our' monk was using an old calendar, who knows?
He'd be aware that no one else locally would know, and wouldn't dare to question his knowledge.

 

Must be why monks all have mobile phones with internet access.

I was hoping to be able to cut out the monk middlemen and go directly to the source.

 

Edited by bluesofa
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On 2/24/2021 at 7:42 AM, bluesofa said:

Thanks for the insight into how it works.

 

Not that I can see why it should, but I am interested about any system used to arrive with these figures.

If it is lunar based, how does that fit in with the philosophy of buddhism, and why? I'm guessing it's part of the mumbo-jjumbo that's evolved down the (more recent) centuries?

You are getting close now. More Mumbo than Jumbo I should think!

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On 2/25/2021 at 1:32 AM, Peter Denis said:

In the West the notion that there is also something like the 'quality' of the time for starting something has been largely lost.

In Thailand (and other Far-Eastern countries) this notion is still very much alive and disposing it as 'mumbo-jumbo' only shows our Western arrogance and ignorance on matters which we are not familiar with because outside of our belief-system.

I am not saying that the monks determining that auspicious time are always 'in the know', but that doesn't mean that there is much more to this matter than superstitious beliefs.

 

Apparently my paternal great grandfather, who was an itinerant 'dentist' in England at the turn  of the last century, knew when the best time was to pick various herbs. It also had to do with moon phases.

I'm not convinced basically, but whatever. Secret 'knowledge' is always power over those who believe.

Edited by BusyB
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On 2/24/2021 at 5:01 PM, khaowong1 said:

You are correct, most of it is mumbo-jumbo.  I think most of the Buddhist holidays are centered around the full moon.  Probably because calender's back then were not very accurate and I'm pretty sure there were at least 2 different calender's used back then. And if I'm not mistaken, they also didn't have the days named yet, Monday, Tuesday, etc.  So again, we're down to mumbo-jumbo. 

 

 

This is all well and good, but do they not have some kind of tables, or diagrams (like astrology) with which they make their 'prognoses'?

I'm sure they don't sit around the temple yard trying to come up with the most ridiculous ideas for fooling the poor superstitious - surely they believe and have a system on which it's based?

I'd also be curious to know - maybe I'll ask a monk next time I'm in LOS.

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