Bangkok Flats Must Be Demolished, Engineers Warn

[george]

Din Daeng flats must be demolished, engineers warn

BANGKOK: -- A final decision will made on Thursday on whether to demolish 20 of Bangkok's decades-old Din Daeng tenements, where 30,000 people live, according to the board of the National Housing Authority (NHA).

The Asian Institute of Technology (AIT) claims the flats have deteriorated beyond "any worthwhile repairs".

Dr Pichai Nimityongsakul, from AIT's School of Civil Engineering, said Monday that the assessment earlier this year on 87 buildings at the NHA's 127rai Din Daeng Estate found that 20 buildings were in a 'red zone' category - residents living in them should be evacuated.

A total of 1,312 flats were found to have cracks, rusting metal beams, and weakened structures, he said.

-- The Nation 2007-05-14

[thaigene2]

Din Daeng flats must be demolished, engineers warn

BANGKOK: -- A final decision will made on Thursday on whether to demolish 20 of Bangkok's decades-old Din Daeng tenements, where 30,000 people live, according to the board of the National Housing Authority (NHA).

The Asian Institute of Technology (AIT) claims the flats have deteriorated beyond "any worthwhile repairs".

Dr Pichai Nimityongsakul, from AIT's School of Civil Engineering, said Monday that the assessment earlier this year on 87 buildings at the NHA's 127rai Din Daeng Estate found that 20 buildings were in a 'red zone' category - residents living in them should be evacuated.

A total of 1,312 flats were found to have cracks, rusting metal beams, and weakened structures, he said.

-- The Nation 2007-05-14

Thanks Dr Pichai for your unbiased professional assessment. Now we have another 756 buildings for you to inspect, including some that are less than a 'decade' old...Now please understand no one is waiting to re-develop the land in these other locations, but I'm sure that there will be equal attention paid to these urgent matters.

[Briggsy]

The occupants of those flats will fight tooth and nail. They have prime locations in Bangkok's centre for rents from 300 Baht a month. This is because once they get the lease, the rents are not raised. Many of the leases are over 20 years old. Demolishing the flats is the only way to get 'em out!

[Aujuba]

Is the real estate market ballooning? If they can kick the tenents out they can reduce the number of available units in BKK. They are starting to say that the US problem is not just subprime and not just limited to the US. The world has an 'oversupply' in the market. It's a worldwide bubble like the Tech boom was back in the 90s. I don't doubt that the building quality of the places in Din Daeng is crap. They probably should be condemned but this is Thailand and quality doesn't really seem to exist for any lower priced housing. Anyways booting 30,000 people from their homes would help some of developments. I really doubt that 30,000 people are going to move very easily. If they are doing this sincerely, they should schedule the move for three or four years from now when a different gov't is in power, a gov't elected by the masses.

[ratcatcher]

When is somebody going to start to understand that poor people also deserve decent accomodation. All we see is massive multi million baht fancy developments.

Where are all the service people going to live?

Kicking 30,000 people out of their substandard apartments will achieve nothing (except to release valuable real estate into the hands of greedy developers) unless they have somewhere affordable to live.

But I'm just naive.

[PhilHarries]

When is somebody going to start to understand that poor people also deserve decent accomodation. All we see is massive multi million baht fancy developments.

Where are all the service people going to live?

Absolutely! In the UK after decades of building "quality" estates that only managerial types can afford they are now creating developments targetting the police, firemen, nurses and teachers (but don't quote me on that last one).

This affair stinks to high heaven of a property developers set up. Get an "independant" assessment by some academic condemming the buildings, move the folks out to some second rate development in the sticks (prob under the flight path of NBIA) and then you have prime space for quality accommodation. So some food vensors, road sweepers and other miscellaneous manual and service workers have to travel an hour to work. They'll be able to marvel at the gleaming towers that replace their slums as they sit squashed in their bus stuck in traffic jams.

But it's the same all over. Maybe next time we are sat in our prime beachfront property or five star resort we should reflect on what it replaced and where those displaced people went?

[yeti]

If any of you ever had a look at those buoldings, maybe your comments would be slightly different.

But then if one of those building collapses killing tenants, the same people will talk about incompetency of the managers of those buildings, who are so stingy that they wanted to continue to rent it even if everybody knew it was run down.

When is somebody going to start to understand that poor people also deserve decent accomodation.

I wouldn't dare call those buildings decent.

But I agree that relocating tenants should be the 1st step, and that this will probably never happen.

[lingling]

BANGKOK: -- A final decision will made on Thursday on whether to demolish 20 of Bangkok's decades-old Din Daeng tenements, where 30,000 people live, according to the board of the National Housing Authority (NHA).

Where is this? Google earth link or picture, anyone?

[yeti]

BANGKOK: -- A final decision will made on Thursday on whether to demolish 20 of Bangkok's decades-old Din Daeng tenements, where 30,000 people live, according to the board of the National Housing Authority (NHA).

Where is this? Google earth link or picture, anyone?

Din Daeng road, not very far from Victory Monument.

[PhilHarries]

If any of you ever had a look at those buoldings, maybe your comments would be slightly different.

But then if one of those building collapses killing tenants, the same people will talk about incompetency of the managers of those buildings, who are so stingy that they wanted to continue to rent it even if everybody knew it was run down.

When is somebody going to start to understand that poor people also deserve decent accomodation.

I wouldn't dare call those buildings decent.

But I agree that relocating tenants should be the 1st step, and that this will probably never happen.

Nobody is disputing that they are sh1tholes and should not be under occupation. But, as you say, the relocation of the tenents ain't going to happen. They'll just be turfed out on the street and left to their own devices which means they'll be living in similar slums someplace else around the city. Any redevelopment of the area will almost certainly not include for any low rent accommodation but rather will be another gleaming shopping mall and luxury apartment block. A development that, in all reality, will just stand idle following the nezt economic crash.

[stoneman]

I think it would be very interesting to see who owns the land that these apts are on.. Would I be surprised if it belonged to the largest land holder in BKK?

[cclub75]

I think it would be very interesting to see who owns the land that these apts are on.. Would I be surprised if it belonged to the largest land holder in BKK?

And who would it be ?

If the "racks, rusting metal beams, and weakened structures" trick doesn't work... what about the good old school style : fire ?

[yeti]

I think it would be very interesting to see who owns the land that these apts are on.. Would I be surprised if it belonged to the largest land holder in BKK?

Your answer is in the 1st post: owner is the National Housing Authority (NHA).

[stoneman]

I think it would be very interesting to see who owns the land that these apts are on.. Would I be surprised if it belonged to the largest land holder in BKK?

Your answer is in the 1st post: owner is the National Housing Authority (NHA).

Yeti..Yes the NHA(govt agency) administers the project and probably owns the buildings, but in many cases in BKK, the land is on a 30 yr lease and the land owner is not the same..

[Briggsy]

I know these flats well. Many of the occupants are quite well-off vendors. They ain't going anywhere, believe me. It would be impossible for them to find 2-room apartments anywhere in the country, never mind in the centre of Bangkok for the low rents they are paying. Many of the lease holders no longer live there. They just shove some family members in or sub-let. They make a very powerful voice and they will not move. I'd be very surprised if there isn't a hidden agenda here. Possibly this is a call for more funds for NHA building in and around Bangkok.

[ColPyat]

BANGKOK: -- A final decision will made on Thursday on whether to demolish 20 of Bangkok's decades-old Din Daeng tenements, where 30,000 people live, according to the board of the National Housing Authority (NHA).

Where is this? Google earth link or picture, anyone?

Between Prachasonkro and Viphavadi Rangsit Road - a huge area. And the buildings really in a sad state. There are many more such areas all over Bangkok - the apartments buildings at Klong Toey next to the slums, on the other side of the express way, or between Ruam Rudi and Rama IV, etc.

[jdinasia]

Din Daeng flats must be demolished, engineers warn

BANGKOK: -- A final decision will made on Thursday on whether to demolish 20 of Bangkok's decades-old Din Daeng tenements, where 30,000 people live, according to the board of the National Housing Authority (NHA).

The Asian Institute of Technology (AIT) claims the flats have deteriorated beyond "any worthwhile repairs".

Dr Pichai Nimityongsakul, from AIT's School of Civil Engineering, said Monday that the assessment earlier this year on 87 buildings at the NHA's 127rai Din Daeng Estate found that 20 buildings were in a 'red zone' category - residents living in them should be evacuated.

A total of 1,312 flats were found to have cracks, rusting metal beams, and weakened structures, he said.

-- The Nation 2007-05-14

Thanks Dr Pichai for your unbiased professional assessment. Now we have another 756 buildings for you to inspect, including some that are less than a 'decade' old...Now please understand no one is waiting to re-develop the land in these other locations, but I'm sure that there will be equal attention paid to these urgent matters.

25% of dindaeng's oldest buildings .... are they close to each other? or is this your typical paranoid rant?

[Lancashirelad]

BANGKOK: -- A final decision will made on Thursday on whether to demolish 20 of Bangkok's decades-old Din Daeng tenements, where 30,000 people live, according to the board of the National Housing Authority (NHA).

Where is this? Google earth link or picture, anyone?

Putting "Din Daeng Bangkok" into Google earth search will bring up the area, but i'm not familiar enough with the area to pinpoint the buildings.

[Jai Dee]

National Housing Committee affirms Din Daeng Flat is at risky condition

The National Housing Committee indicates that the Din Daeng Flat is in risky condition and suggests the tenants to leave the flat. However, the committee says it will wait for the decision of the Council of Engineers and the Engineering Institute of Thailand of whether the flat should be destroyed.

Deputy Minister of Social Development and Human Security, Poldet Pinprateeb (พลเดช ปิ่นประทีป) reveals that the National Housing Committee’s meeting has agreed to instruct the Council of Engineers and the Engineering Institute of Thailand to inspect the Din Daeng flat tomorrow (May, 19th). The meeting was held due to the Asian Institute of Technology (AIT)’s report suggesting that buildings 1 - 8 and 21 – 32 of the Din Daeng Flat are very risky and dangerous to stay inside.

If both the Council of Engineers and the Engineering Institute of Thailand agree that the flat must be destroyed, the deputy minister says the National Housing Authority (NHA) will provide new residences for the tenants.

In addition, the ministry has a plan to set up a committee consisting of representatives of NHA, the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration, and the tenants to find long-term solutions to the problems of the flat, including compensation and new residences for those who have to leave the flat.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 18 May 2007

[Jai Dee]

Update:

Din Daeng Flats to be renovated and repaired rather than demolished

The Din Daeng Flats Structural Investigation Committee has decided to allow the National Housing Authority to renovate rather than demolish the Din Daeng Flats.

The Chairman of the Din Daeng Flats Structural Investigation Committee, Mr. Ekasit Limsuwan (เอกสิทธิ ลิ้มสุวรรณ), said that his committee has decided to allow the National Housing Authority to conduct renovations and repairs to damaged portions of the Din Daeng Flats, in buildings 1-8, and 21-32. NHA officials will address issues with the buildings garbage chute, front porch, ceiling, rusty steel supports, and bathroom walls. Of particular concern are structural integrity issues in building 22, which exhibit fracture on walls, and show signs of rust and weakening of support structure.

Mr. Ekasit added that repairs conducted on buildings will not affect overall structural integrity and can be conducted without the evacuation of Din Daeng Flat residents.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 06 June 2007

[Scott]

The dishonesty and deception is so endemic here it beggars belief. They need to be destroyed; no they don't, yes, they do....." Skilled Engineers, who aren't yes men should be able to assess the quality of the buildings and make reasonable estimates of the cost of repair, versus replacement.

Can you imagine going to the hospital and hearing...oh, he's dead, no he isn't, yes he is....

[Jai Dee]

Tenants of Din Daeng Housing Estate entitled to half rent of rebuilt flats

The Committee of the National Housing Authority (NHA) accepts a proposal of tenants of the Din Daeng Housing Estate on temporary residences. NHA Governor Pornsak Boonyodom (พรศักดิ์ บุณโยดม) affirms the old tenants will be entitled to rents 50% lower than those paid by the new ones after the flats have been rebuilt.

The tenants proposed that NHA outlines a plan for their temporary move during a meeting between NHA and them yesterday (June, 24th). They also requested NHA to prevent speculation on the purchase of the rebuilt flats and allow them to participate in NHA’s every decision on the Din Daeng Housing Estate.

At the same time, NHA Governor says the NHA board had a resolution to reconstruct the flats as their priority is the tenants’ safety. Today at 15.00 hrs., the board will hold a meeting chaired by Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Social Development and Human Security, Paiboon Wattanasiritham, to discuss the reconstruction of the tenements.

Mr Pornsak adds that NHA has conducted a survey on the tenants who will have to move out of the flats and has a plan to invite leaders of each tenement to set the date for the move.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 25 June 2007

[Jai Dee]

Din Daeng flat tenants requests NHA Board to revise its decision to pull down Din Daeng flat

Din Daeng flat tenants have requested the Board of the National Housing Authority (NHA) to revise its decision to pull down Din Daeng flat.

Over 200 tenants of Din Daeng flat have submitted a document requesting the Board to allow the renovation of Din Daeng flat instead of having it pulled down. They need answer from the Board within 5 days; otherwise, they will arrange a protest at the Government House on July 3rd.

The Din Daeng flat tenants will hand their documents to the Minister of Social Development and Human Security for consideration as well.

According to NHA Governor, he says NHA Board wants to re-construct Din Daeng flat due to its security, while affirming that NHA is not trying to seek benefit.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 June 2007

[Jai Dee]

National Housing Authority to meet with Din Daeng Flat residents from July 14-15

The National Housing Authority will be conduting another round of negotiations with Din Daeng Flat residents in order to create a clear solution to the Din Daeng Flat dispute.

The Governor of the National Housing Authority, Mr. Polsak Boonyodom (พรศักดิ์ บุณโยดม), said that NHA officials are preparing to adhere to the Prime Minister's policy by conducting further discussions with Din Daeng Flat residents from July 14-15 in order to establish a clear course of action regarding structural defects in the Din Daeng Flats. Officials will meet with residents of Flats 1-8 on July 14, and residents of Flats 21-32 on July 15 in order to receive opinions and suggestions.

The National Housing Authority will be reporting their findings to Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Social Development and Human Security Paiboon Wattanasiritham (ไพบูลย์ วัฒนศิริธรรม). The NHA Governor affirms that officials will solve the Din Daeng Flat dispute while taking into account the welfare of Din Daeng Flat residents.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 09 July 2007

[thaigene2]

Oh yes, the honorable Thai "engineering profession" - I'm sure they've taken everything into account, aren't you? About as honourable as every other profession.

QUESTION THAT NO THAI WILL ASK:

"Could this place be refurbished to last another 50 years for a reasonable amount - compared to ripping it down and relocating residents at tax-payer's expense?"

"could rents be raised by 20% to bring this into reality and help pay the costs?"

I'm wasting my time here, cause this sort of thing will never be written in Thai and published by the Thai papers.

[Jai Dee]

NHA offers alternative choices for tenants of Din Daeng Flat

NHA committee reminds tenants of Din Daeng Flat to stay rational and think for their future generations.

NHA Committee Member, Mr.Kwansuang Atipothi (ขวัญสรวง อติโพธิ) yesterday met with Din Daeng Flat tenants to find a resolution to the dilapidated flats. He said choices are to renovate the buildings or to demolish the buildings and construct the buildings from ground zero, either way he asked the tenants to find the most ideal resolution as they need to hand down the living residents to their future generations.

He further said if the tenants agree to rebuild the new buildings the National Housing Authority would responsible for all expenses for the new temporary residents, alternatively the NHA would find the suitable accommodation for them.

In addition, initial report stated that the buildings can be renovated but that the NHA is concerned about the safety of the people as the concrete buildings lack good maintenance from the early stage.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 16 July 2007

[Heng]

So goes the risk of living in air over land (condos, apartments, etc.) that is steadily sinking. There are going to be a lot of unhappy campers -more than there are already that is- when they have to start tearing down the pricier high rise condos in 40-50 years (or sooner).

[Jai Dee]

Update:

Din Daeng Flat residents ask for 1 million as compensation to move

Former Deputy Leader of the Chart Thai party Choowit Kamolwisit (ชูวิทย์ กมลวิศิษฏ์) agreed to act as a mediator between Din Daeng flat residents and the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security. Mr. Choowit stated that he would submit 2 demands of the residents to the ministry.

The first demand stated that the residents must be allowed to remain at the flat if they choose for at least 20 years as engineers have confirmed the structure is still safe enough and repairs would not require residents to move out. The second demand was that the National Housing Authority (NHA) must compensate residents in the event that it forces them to move by paying 1 million baht per unit of the flats.

The NHA had initially offered 250,000 baht per unit with 10,000 baht for moving fees which residents stated was insufficient. The resident group has stated that it will resist being moved if third parties are seeking to use the area for commercial purposes.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 18 Febuary 2008