Is It Still Worth Moving To Thailand?

[chang]

My point.

Immigrants to UK generally fetch nothing, and are welcomed with opened arms. From what I've seen on Thai TV, they dont like f.......

Got bored and cant be bothered any more on this.

[LoveDaBlues]

I'm currently experiencing the best time of my life; right here in Thailand. But, I fall into the following category: male, 50, plenty of money. I don't have any visa hassles to speak of.

If I was under 50 I don't know if I would locate here full time (because of visa hassles). I suppose I would if I had a high-buck job lined up BEFORE I got here. As far as being under 50 and coming here needing a job; forget it I would not travel that road.

50 or older, retired and on "short money"? Forget that too; stay in your home country.

I think GH has given the best advice. If you come here undercapitalized you'll probably not enjoy it here much.

Not to brag but how can it get better? I've got a new Fortuner, new Air Blade, nice rental home, can eat out whenever, super wife yummy yummy, do what I want when I want, etc. etc. etc.

Bottom line then.......... have dosh enjoy all that Thailand has to offer. Unless something changes I have no desire to return to my home country.

I'm still jealous of Dr. Naam though. Rich bast***.

[qwertz]

Same same everywhere innit, LDB? Money talks and BS walks.

[Naam]

I'm still jealous of Dr. Naam though.

hmmmm...

your wife does not possess big ( . )( . ) and a big (_!_) like mine? too bad

my advice = spent some baht and feed her!

[Ulysses G.]

I am confused by the "If you dont love it post", I said "I loved it", just not really keen on jumping through all the hoops, I am usually very stubborn and will cut my nose of to spite my face. But this attitude changes when dealing with Thai people.

If you are talking about my post, it wasn't directed at you.

It was directed at the, "I want everything to be just like home except very CHEAP" crowd, who seem to be flooding Thailand these days.

[qwertz]

Oi, I resemble that! Why else would I go there for my hols?

[chang]

Ahhh, thanks for clearing that up Ulysses G., I read and re-read my original post but couldnt see what I said wrong.

The only two things I missed about the UK when in Thailand are 1. Speaking and listening to English - My Thai isnt very good but getting better, and rural Thailand doesnt speak much Thai anyway (mostly Suay and Laos)n 2. English Food - as tasty as Thai food is it is still nice to have UK food now and again. First non-Thai food in three weeks was a Big Mac, nearly made me sick when i realised how poor quality it was compared to local produce.

Love the warmth and friendliness of the people. I was treadted like a celebrity in the village. I like the houses on stilts, village floods pretty often so traditional house's still rule.

Only thing i dont like(dont like probably too strong a description) about Thailand is they seem to drink from when they wake up to when they goto sleep.

Maybe will have to rethink moving to Thailand and get her to come and live with me in this poxy second rate country called UK for another 15 years.

[qwertz]

I think that way too about UK, Chang, left it long ago. But it made me what I am and gave me the push I needed to get on in life. That much said, I don't feel any urgent need to go back apart from the mandatory, depressing annual visit. Manchester is chav territory nowadays (hope I'm not offending any chavs).

You'll always get the bashers and defenders on these threads; just do your thing, I figure you're old enough to see through the dos and don'ts of emigrating.

[chang]

Well as I'm not going to have to sell my house to move to Thailand I suppose I could give it a try for a year or so, and if it doesnt work out i could always move back to this hole.

Thanks qwertz.

I know taking multiple months holidays is not the same as living there, but i reckon its now or never, or i think i will end up being 70 years old saying "i wish i'd moved to Thailand"

Between the bashers and defenders hopefuly I will get a balanced view.

[Ulysses G.]

The only two things I missed about the UK when in Thailand are 1. Speaking and listening to English - My Thai isnt very good but getting better, and rural Thailand doesnt speak much Thai anyway (mostly Suay and Laos)n 2. English Food - as tasty as Thai food is it is still nice to have UK food now and again.

Maybe try a city?

Chiang Mai has 100s of British restaurants in a few block area and pretty much everyone speaks English near Pratu Farang (Pratu Thapae).

If you want a quieter place, Chiang Rai is almost like a country town, but still has pretty good Farang food and lots of English speakers.

[LoveDaBlues]

I'm still jealous of Dr. Naam though.

hmmmm...

your wife does not possess big ( . )( . ) and a big (_!_) like mine? too bad

my advice = spent some baht and feed her!

Actually the wife is 2 months preggy so she's getting a bit "num yii".

she's eating 5-6 times a day now; cutting into my Leo money!

[Naam]

I'm still jealous of Dr. Naam though.

hmmmm...

your wife does not possess big ( . )( . ) and a big (_!_) like mine? too bad

my advice = spent some baht and feed her!

Actually the wife is 2 months preggy so she's getting a bit "num yii".

she's eating 5-6 times a day now; cutting into my Leo money!

the coming months will provide challenges for you. to master all these challenges you should procure ropes, spikes and all the various gear mountain climbers use

off topic: my best wishes for you, your wife and your baby. happiness does not consist of caviar, champagne and a fat investment portfolio only! besides the latter one should have a good wife, honest sons and daughters, gold bars, immobile property in London, Hong Kong, New York, Bombay and Singapore, old masters (preferably Rembrandts and van Goghs), precious stones, antique furniture, oriental rugs, valuable sculptures, a diplomatic passport and an irrevocable residence permit in Thailand.

some pocket money on top of the afore-mentioned can't hurt of course.

[LoveDaBlues]

I'm still jealous of Dr. Naam though.

hmmmm...

your wife does not possess big ( . )( . ) and a big (_!_) like mine? too bad

my advice = spent some baht and feed her!

Actually the wife is 2 months preggy so she's getting a bit "num yii".

she's eating 5-6 times a day now; cutting into my Leo money!

the coming months will provide challenges for you. to master all these challenges you should procure ropes, spikes and all the various gear mountain climbers use

off topic: my best wishes for you, your wife and your baby. happiness does not consist of caviar, champagne and a fat investment portfolio only! besides the latter one should have a good wife, honest sons and daughters, gold bars, immobile property in London, Hong Kong, New York, Bombay and Singapore, old masters (preferably Rembrandts and van Goghs), precious stones, antique furniture, oriental rugs, valuable sculptures, a diplomatic passport and an irrevocable residence permit in Thailand.

some pocket money on top of the afore-mentioned can't hurt of course.

Thanks for the good wishes! BTW......you left out your "shack" in Thailand.

[Naam]

Thanks for the good wishes! BTW......you left out your "shack" in Thailand.

presently guests we are guests in the shack we have built for our housemaid and her husband the gardener till we find an appropriate accomodation. but mind you! it's not easy... we are grinding our teeth!

[No beleeeeve!]

Thailand is fun but it's illogical. If you like fun and don't care about quality, justice, improving society, etc then come to Thailand and enjoy. But remember that Thailand is illogical. Thailand is illogical. It's illogical. But it can be fun.

I get asked this question quite often. I think it is not a matter of looking for the perfect or better place, per se, but looking for a good match for you and your goals of living somewhere.

Learn the landmines, how to cope with them in various ways, and see how it goes. Then, see the positives and see if they are a match for what you are looking for.

For example, the weather. For some, it is a plus, others it may be a negative.

What I can categorically say is if one is from the West, you would be best served to wipe 95% of your memory of how to function in life that you learned since birth and relearn it from an Eastern perspective. This is not a better or worse thing, just different. We in the West think that how we do things is how the rest of the world does. Boy, that is far from the truth! Again, not a better or worse thing, just different.

The statement above about Thailand being illogical....illogical perhaps from a Western frame of thinking, but not illogical from a Thai perspective. You must know that life is completely different in the West and this can either be a good thing or not, depending on you, what is a good match for you, and what you are looking for.

So, to ask if it is worth it anymore, that is different from person to person. I like that Thailand isn't like the West or there would be no reason to live there, or not as much anyway. I like the way the landscape of living changes, it keeps things interesting to me. Corruption...okay, deal with it. Learn how to work it to your favor. Learn how to negotiate in Thai. Learn the culture.

Yes, people try to scam you. Learn the language and 90% of the people won't even try it on you since you no longer present as a tourist.

The government is changing, maybe not for the better from our point of view. That will weed out the "rif raf" who cannot adapt in Thailand, no?

I find Thailand to be a constantly changing and interesting place. I did my homework before I moved there, learned the ropes, and dealt with it.

I'm still not used to be people jumping line in the Post Office though!!!! But, my blood pressure doesn't rise as much as before. LOL I'm proud of myself for that! Hahahah...

I do have an eye on Vietnam though. But I still think Thailand is well worth it.

[4winds]

I think it would be worth appraising yourself of the actual visa requirements, and in particular the work permit requirements before deciding on a move.

A point not to miss is what I said about the mistake people make on being undercapitalized when they move to Thailand.

Well paid, secure jobs for foreigners are extremely hard to find in Thailand. Therefore your plans to move to Thailand securely must be based on having enough capital/income outside of Thailand to maintain your life in Thailand AND maintain you within the visa rule income requirements - Not just now, but for all the time you want to live in Thailand.

If you find a job, all well and good, but you should not expect to do so, you should certainly not base your income plans on having a job in Thailand - You very likely will not find a job in Thailand.

For the vast majority of people moving to Thailand getting a job in Thailand that pays enough to keep them and build savings for future retirement is not achievable.

A classic mistake is to forget that an income now in Thailand must also provide savings to maintain life in Thailand after retirement.

Perhaps a bigger mistake is underestimating expenditure after arrival in Thailand. Marriage in Thailand is not inevitable, but it almost always happens, with all the costs that brings. Without a job in Thailand, those costs really do eat capital at a frightening rate, and as I say above, a job is almost impossible to find.

The discussion of how much money is required to move to an live in Thailand is frequently brought up here on TV, the answers are as varied as the length of a piece of string.

My view is that a single guy moving to Thailand needs capital amounting to at least 20 times the minimum fund to get a visa + GBP100K for all the additional costs of a marriage and family.

----

I've read your comments on immigrants to the UK. As the son of immigrants to the UK I find them offensive. Perhaps your own emigration to someone else’s country will teach you a thing or two on that front.

Sorry, I don't get the capitalization conclusion. Would $2000.00 usd meet your estimate?

[stingray]

My advice:

If you are married to a western wive and if you have family and kids, i wouldn't come to Thailand. There are much nicer places to go with your family. If you are single, and if you are enyoy the nightlife, then thailand is the right place. If you like to work, there is not much opportunities overhere. Basicly you earn more money in a western country and you can living cheap overhere. I'm here over 10 years. The best thing, don't lock your self up. Come overhere for 6 months and see what happen. You schould not buy property, so you always can "escape" if everything come more bad. If you have enought money you should check different countrys, not only Thailand. I think Paraguay is much more foreign freindly, because you can get citizenship easly. But there is not much Nightlife. But Properyt is very cheap and you can buy in your name. It's depend what you like. If you have a Thaiwife, than it's a different matter. But you could live with your Thaiwife somwhere else, why not? So no familie members and hanging arround your wallet.

[chang]

Once again thank you for all your responses and sharing your experience and ideas.

My main problem is living in the UK, i'm really fed up with it. Maybe the problem is the grass is always greener somewhere else. (Well not green very often in Thailand - joke)

I have a Thai GF, she lives in BKK but owns quite a bit of land (paddy fields) and other land which she can build on, I guess this is part of her retirment plan when she leaves BKK. And no, before you laugh and take the #!#$ she isnt a BG, and doesnt have any Buffalo, but I did recenlty buy her dad a cow, on the understanding that if it gets sick well thats tough, its not my cow.

I like the whole Asian culture thing, but after reading through the posts here and elswhere on the forum I am begining think maybe Thailand isnt all its cracked upto be. So maybe my next option is to marry her, bring her to the god awful UK, get her British passport, move somewhere else.

So my next move is probably trawling the ex-pat forums for all the other countries in the world and ask their take on their new home.

Ohh, and before I forget, after reading through my last couple of posts I realise maybe I was a bit harsh on immigrants to the UK, my rant was aimed more at assylum seekers, both legal and illegal.

Chang.

[GuestHouse]

Sorry, I don't get the capitalization conclusion. Would $2000.00 usd meet your estimate?

No it would not on the basis that the secure income from $200K would not meet the mininmum income requirements to obtain a visa.

It would also soon disapear if you wanted to buy things like a car, a condo, or if like many foreigners in Thailand started a family with all the expense that involves.

I contend that Thailand is not as cheap as people believe and that to live a good and secure life in Thailand you need similar amounts of money that you would need to live in the west.

An example of the misscalculations that people make is inflation.

I firmly believe that there are two inflation rates in Thailand, one that is holds true with respect to the goods and servies that Thais use and a second higher rate of inflation that holds true for the additional goods and services that foreigners use.

The best example of that I can think of is medical care. The sucess of the international hospitals in drawing in patients (business) from overseas has resulted in a huge increase in the cost of medical treatment in Thailand. As almost all Thai private hospitals operate two tier prices these incresed costs impact foreigners - hence foreigners are subjected to higher inflation.

[Happy Jack]

My experience is that you don't really know a place until you've lived there for at least a year - and that is definitely my experience of Thailand. After two years living there I now think of Chiang Mai as my home, am married to a Thai lady, and intend to live permanently in Thailand if at all possible.

However my ultimate conclusion after two years there was that I need to have reasonable money in a non Thai bank to feel secure there - as unless my wife and I want to become corporate slaves in Bangkok (which we could do) we will not earn enough to live the lifestyle I/we prefer (I like to live comfortably and to travel. My wife is somewhat easier to please but it would be nice to provide her and her family with things they otherwise couldn't have - such as better education for her nephews).

So we are now back in my home country (where my wife will qualify for citizenship in another 3.5 years - ie a much more viable passport for international travel) setting ourselves up with both funds and passive income streams in order to allow us to relax in Thailand for the rest of our lives.

We probably will work in Thailand. We may even open a restaurant or bar - but will have no expectation for this beyond covering our basic living costs - and if it gets boring or too much like hard work we will be able to walk away.

I have a friend who is also doing a similar thing - setting up an internet based business whilst still living in his home country with the intention of moving to Thailand once it's up and running.

Another friend took a different approach - moved to Thailand 20+ years ago when still in his teens - and still lives there - but has been able to do this because he has always managed to find reasonable jobs, lived in Bangkok for the whole time, and still has to go to work to pay the bills. He doesn't place great value on material things (which is an approach I don't discount) so is happy in this lifestyle - but this may not suit someone (such as myself) who wants to move there and have time to relax and pursue his/her own personal goals without need to make a living.

So my advice - if I could presume to give any - is to save up enough money to go and spend a year seeing if you love the place - and then go back home and set yourself up prior to making the move.

My caution would be that without independent means behind you, you will quite possibly find yourself in a quite difficult position rather quickly.

Oh - and it sort of goes without saying but don't trust any expat that tries to sell you on a great deal/bar/partnership/investment with great return, or asks to borrow your money.

To sum up - Chiang Mai (can't really speak for the rest of the country) is a great place to live - but be careful and don't expect to make your fortune there.

[sgunn65]

Like the OP I am tiring of life in the Uk. This has come as a bit of a surprise to me as I thought I would die in London. But my job is mega stressful, London is changing once again, the weather is horrible and it is sooooo expensive. On the other hand the music is great as is the theatre and I can go to one of eight charity shops by me and buy the latest novels for £2. And of course my friends! That makes it tougher but I just feel its time I got adventurous.

The music I can get on the internet, 2nd hand novels must be available somewhere in Bkk but the theatre will have to go. But there has to be some sacrifice. And I am sure my friends will not mind a free place to stay when they visit Thailand!

It would be wonderful to have enough money to move lock stock and smoking barrel to LOS and never have to work again but I do think there is a half way house, it just requires some flexibility.

I will be moving f/t to Bkk in October with enough in the bank to live without working for 18 months including college fees for learning Thai and I do have enough invested to bring me in 25K a month which, according to my Thai wife, is half of what we need to live comfortably. (No children and house owned outright in a suburb of BKK). I am setting up some e businesses that I hope will bring in the rest, however I am not going to rely on that since I am one of those rare birds that actually want to teach. So that will give me the other half. This does not take into account my wife working.

So there are a number of options and if it all goes wrong then I will go home.

Better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all.

[Happy Jack]

One thing to take into consideration in South East Asia in religious fanatics fighting for more land, internet access and how many hours a day the water and electric stay on.

what about the quality of the beer?

Now there's my pet peeve. If only they would learn to manage the beer I could live with everything else.

I love the beer!

Chang is $7 for a small bottle in the Thai restaurants here or $18 for 6 at the bottle stores - and I still drink it! (when I can afford it!)

[qwertz]

I'll settle for Germany in summer (good beer, good pay) and LOS in winter (good weather, good times).

[Happy Jack]

Perhaps you'll be greeted in Thailand by Thais who hold similar views about foreigners.

He probably will GH. Being an expat doesn't guarantee you total acceptance anywhere. I think Chang is entitled to his voice and you can't say there are absolutely no lawbreakers among immigrants. This applies equally everywhere - note my "PC" location. You're only taking umbrage because you're not one of them.

In my 2 years in Thialand with only one exception the people who ripped me off were expats. (The one exception was when I got really drunk and did some stupid things that would have got me ripped off in my home country as well.) On the other hand when I needed help Thai people (even complete strangers) time and again came to my aid. I once even left my cash loaded wallet and cellphone in a bar and only noticed they were gone hours later. When I went back they were there waiting for me - the bar staff had hidden them from the other falang in the bar and presented them to me as soon as I walked in the door. Despite what many posters here would say I have found many more trustworthy Thai people in Thailand than trustworthy falang. I can think of more than 3 dozen Thai's who have helped me significantly with no reward for themselves - and my wife's family will bend over backwards for me and have never asked for a thing (not even a dowry - as they said I had done enough for my wife already). When it comes to expats who I trust I can think of 5!.

So yes, immigrants really are a big problem in Thailand - where too many think that they can do anything they like and get away with it.

Slightly off topic sorry....

[blizzard]

im just a regular guy living holidaying in thailand.

im just wondering happy jack can you explain the situations you get into where you need so much help.

[qwertz]

I think there is a clear distinction between expat, immigrant and farang in LOS. The real immigrants are mostly Asian, the expats are mostly okay and look out for each other. They're also quite free with good advice on how to stay out of trouble. The farangs mentioned by happyjack (hope you've learned to drink less, jack) are the real scourge and the the Thais are very tolerant by and large because some of the behaviour I've seen would earn these farangs a severe kicking back home.

[Edonista]

I also think it is wrong to point the finger at the Thai enforcement and revision of visa regulations as the sole cause of distress to people at the edge of the financial means to remain in Thailand. The huge swings in the Thai currency we have seen over the past year are as much a challenge to expat incomes and financial security.

Huge swing in currencies ? When I first came to Thailand in Sept 2003, 1 euro bought 45 baht. It buys 47 now. Indeed the $ weakened, but it weakened all over the world. I remember however that in 2004 1$ bought 38 baht , now 34.5 , a 10% baht revaluation in 3 years is not that terrible.Many people here considers the $ fall from 42 , but that exchange level was after the baht got beaten by crude oil increase in 2005/early 2006.

About the visa shake up, for many farangs it is not a matter of money , but of no visa options at all , after 3 million baht investment visa has been deleted.

[qwertz]

LOS is a bit like the old French foreign legion. Dozens of nationalities looking to get away from something or run to something. The big difference, you don't get a passport after serving your time.

[cobra]

As said many times, come to Thailand to live, not to work.

Don't burn any bridges.

At the minimum, have in place the amount of $ that would be required to sustain you in retirement in your home country, most likely that will be sufficient.

As mentioned in previouis posts, make sure your inflation proofed on your revenue stream(s).

[crocodilexp]

At the minimum, have in place the amount of $ that would be required to sustain you in retirement in your home country, most likely that will be sufficient.

Having as much money one would need to retire in the west (e.g. UK or USA) is a minimum in Thailand? I know this is well-intentioned advice, but it seems to be completely useless. Sure, I know I could safely live in Thailand with USD 3 million or more in assets (inflation, XR and economy fluctuation proofed, of course). How helpful is it to know this?

I think what is worth knowing is a minimum for a foreigner to get by in Thailand and be reasonably secure. In my experience, this is THB 25000 a month, in a similar way that a minimum to live in most of the U.S. is USD 2000. Unforeseen things may happen, such as an illness, economic downturn etc., but most people take reasonable risks for their rewards, right?

Estimating beyond the minimum is difficult -- everyone's lifestyle is different. I'm single and happy with 55k baht/mo. Anything over 120k I would hardly know how to spend (sure, saving is always nice). Even with millions in the bank, you may meet wrong people (woman or a "business" partner) who will clean you up throughly.

Visa issues are completely separate -- there is no security at all (even if you're OK today, you may not be in a few months), and this needs to be taken into account.