The sky is burning (again)

[billd766]

I live in rural Kamphaeng Phet backing onto the Mae Wong national park

 

Across the road and away from the national park (at least today) the sky is burning as the farmers burn off all the leftover rubbish from probably the sugar cane. It happens most years and tomorrow there will be black "snow" everywhere. Of course nobody knows how it started as par for the course.

 

The bad news is that the province has only had 2.7ml of rain since 24th November last year, all the trees have shed their leaves and the land is tinder dry. What concerns me is that farmers on our side of the road my carelessly drop a burning cigarette or some gasoline and the park will burn again.

 

The only way that the rangers can fight that fire is manually in the forest itself as there is only one road at this end and over 950 sq/km ready to burn. 

[Tarteso]

The sky is burning (again)

It’s no the sky,  just beginning the dry season, so Thais need to burn theirs lands, theirs garbages, theirs farms and ours lungs.  That’s ok. ???? 
 

I understand their way of life. I Learnt to Live with this;  air purifier, air conditioner... closed windows, and military in power doing their bussiness. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Tarteso

[mr mr]

58 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Of course nobody knows how it started

 

turning a blind eye to something lethal over losing face. they all know too da** well how it starts. 

 

 

[Patong2021]

Everyone knows very well that what they do is wrong. The government is afraid to act because it does not wish to cause uprising. There is no reason to stop burning and to incur what is seen as extra cost/extra work if others can do and  get away with it. I think that the majority of  people burning would stop if the hard core burners were stopped. 

If Thai government were to use some of its draconian weight against actual wrongdoers and not against those it perceives as opponents to the status quo, the  problem could be managed. It is same thing every year and same discussion.  Thai government for the past 50 years has failed to educate, to offer alternatives and to enforce environmental protection laws. Thai locals always complain about their poor condition - well here is a reason why they will remain in poor condition, because they refuse to  act responsibly.

[sirineou]

 

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

The bad news is that the province has only had 2.7ml of rain since 24th November last year, all the trees have shed their leaves and the land is tinder dry. What concerns me is that farmers on our side of the road my carelessly drop a burning cigarette or some gasoline and the park will burn again.

I hear you and I share your frustration and concern. We have the same deal in Khon Kaen , when they burn the rice husks.  When we plan to travel that year , we try to time it between January and April . 

We can't  blame the Thai people , they are doing the best they can,they really don't have other options. Not that I know at least. 

  The government needs to develop options for them, as they have in Brazil  where they are  using the sugar cane husks for ethanol. 

I remember seeing a documentary on a pilot program to buy the rice straw and turn it to a pulm to make biodegradable food packaging. That way you also solve the plastic bag problem. I wonder how that is going. 

 

[Solinvictus]

2 hours ago, Tarteso said:

The sky is burning (again)

It’s no the sky,  just beginning the dry season, so Thais need to burn theirs lands, theirs garbages, theirs farms and ours lungs.  That’s ok. ???? 
 

I understand their way of life. I Learnt to Live with this;  air purifier, air conditioner... closed windows, and military in power doing their bussiness. 

Whats a good air purifier you would recommend?

[canopy]

7 hours ago, sirineou said:

We can't  blame the Thai people , they are doing the best they can,they really don't have other options.

You might blame them if you knew burning is simply pleasure for them just like smoking a cigarette. I come from the largest corn producing nation in the world. I have never seen a corn field burned there and the farmers make a good living. Yet in Thailand it would be unimaginable for a corn field to be left unburned. No one is encouraging them to burn and it depletes the soil and promotes erosion making them poorer. And as you say what they burn off often has other profitable uses; think straw bales, sileage and many others. The farmers position is it's their land and they do as they please and if you don't like it then tough luck. They will refuse any alternative and don't care if they or you are getting sick. If you aren't sure of what I say is true, ask a few farmers why they burn. You will become enlightened when instead of telling a sad tale of nail biting profitability they instead blow smoke in your face. Government programs, education, and awareness will never work because they do not address the root cause. Strict enforcement is the answer, but nobody wants that.

 

Farms are not the only thing being burned. So are the forests and everyone's daily heap of plastic. Anything that can burn in this country is burned to a crisp.

 

[GreasyFingers]

8 hours ago, sirineou said:

We can't  blame the Thai people , they are doing the best they can,they really don't have other options. Not that I know at least. 

While burning stubble is the easiest, least costly way to clear the previous crop it also has the benefit of killing harmful microbes and bacteria built up in the soil from the crop. If they do not burn they will need to spray those dreadful, carcinogenic chemicals to prepare for next season.

[Tarteso]

7 hours ago, Solinvictus said:

Whats a good air purifier you would recommend?

Quality and good price...Philips.  I bought 2 in HomePro, actually in Lazada.

[billd766]

12 hours ago, mr mr said:

 

turning a blind eye to something lethal over losing face. they all know too da** well how it starts. 

 

 

It is still smoldering this morning. I have a problem here. There are dead leaves all over the place, about 2 rai worth plus I have 9 dead trees to cut up and dispose off.

 

Does anyone have any ideas how to dispose of them?

[GreasyFingers]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

It is still smoldering this morning. I have a problem here. There are dead leaves all over the place, about 2 rai worth plus I have 9 dead trees to cut up and dispose off.

 

Does anyone have any ideas how to dispose of them?

Hiring a lot of termites.

[GreasyFingers]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

It is still smoldering this morning. I have a problem here. There are dead leaves all over the place, about 2 rai worth plus I have 9 dead trees to cut up and dispose off.

 

Does anyone have any ideas how to dispose of them?

If you will not burn them you need to invest in a good wood chipper. We have over 100 trees on our property so there always branches, trimmings, leaves etc to be burnt. If you let them dry out and set your fire properly you will have mostly flame with minimal smoke. We then spread the ash around the fruit trees as a soil enhancer and grow vegetables where the fire was, they thrive on it.

[Aomelia]

7 hours ago, canopy said:

You might blame them if you knew burning is simply pleasure for them just like smoking a cigarette. I come from the largest corn producing nation in the world. I have never seen a corn field burned there and the farmers make a good living. Yet in Thailand it would be unimaginable for a corn field to be left unburned. No one is encouraging them to burn and it depletes the soil and promotes erosion making them poorer. And as you say what they burn off often has other profitable uses; think straw bales, sileage and many others. The farmers position is it's their land and they do as they please and if you don't like it then tough luck. They will refuse any alternative and don't care if they or you are getting sick. If you aren't sure of what I say is true, ask a few farmers why they burn. You will become enlightened when instead of telling a sad tale of nail biting profitability they instead blow smoke in your face. Government programs, education, and awareness will never work because they do not address the root cause. Strict enforcement is the answer, but nobody wants that.

 

Farms are not the only thing being burned. So are the forests and everyone's daily heap of plastic. Anything that can burn in this country is burned to a crisp.

 

Blame the fertilizer companies they tell them to burn si they can seek fertilizer 

[natway09]

If the Government would pay them a little sudsidy  to plough the stubble back in might help

[ThaiFelix]

19 hours ago, billd766 said:

I live in rural Kamphaeng Phet backing onto the Mae Wong national park

 

Across the road and away from the national park (at least today) the sky is burning as the farmers burn off all the leftover rubbish from probably the sugar cane. It happens most years and tomorrow there will be black "snow" everywhere. Of course nobody knows how it started as par for the course.

 

The bad news is that the province has only had 2.7ml of rain since 24th November last year, all the trees have shed their leaves and the land is tinder dry. What concerns me is that farmers on our side of the road my carelessly drop a burning cigarette or some gasoline and the park will burn again.

 

The only way that the rangers can fight that fire is manually in the forest itself as there is only one road at this end and over 950 sq/km ready to burn. 

Call the police !!     Its against the law!  

[HashBrownHarry]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

It is still smoldering this morning. I have a problem here. There are dead leaves all over the place, about 2 rai worth plus I have 9 dead trees to cut up and dispose off.

 

Does anyone have any ideas how to dispose of them?

burn them

[Yorkshire Tea]

10 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

While burning stubble is the easiest, least costly way to clear the previous crop it also has the benefit of killing harmful microbes and bacteria built up in the soil from the crop. If they do not burn they will need to spray those dreadful, carcinogenic chemicals to prepare for next season.

They spray them anyway, after they burn.

[Yorkshire Tea]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

It is still smoldering this morning. I have a problem here. There are dead leaves all over the place, about 2 rai worth plus I have 9 dead trees to cut up and dispose off.

 

Does anyone have any ideas how to dispose of them?

We just pile them up in one end of the garden.  All rots eventually.  We never burn anything.

[billd766]

39 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

Call the police !!     Its against the law!  

We all know that it is against the law but if I call the police the nearest on duty cop is about 20km away and they wouldn't come. They would perhaps call the local office (if anybody would answer) and they might come out if I paid them but what could they do.

 

The guy who lit the fire would be long gone, the land owner or tenant would deny all knowledge and probably blame the local teenagers. If the fire truck came out they couldn't do much as the fire was up in the hills where the fire truck couldn't get to anyway.

 

It is just so sad that it happens most years but farming in Thailand is slowly dying. Most farmers around here are years old or older and young people don't want to work the land. why beat yourself to death when you can leave for the bright lights with more money and less work.

 

[xtrnuno41]

18 hours ago, sirineou said:

 

I hear you and I share your frustration and concern. We have the same deal in Khon Kaen , when they burn the rice husks.  When we plan to travel that year , we try to time it between January and April . 

We can't  blame the Thai people , they are doing the best they can,they really don't have other options. Not that I know at least. 

  The government needs to develop options for them, as they have in Brazil  where they are  using the sugar cane husks for ethanol. 

I remember seeing a documentary on a pilot program to buy the rice straw and turn it to a pulm to make biodegradable food packaging. That way you also solve the plastic bag problem. I wonder how that is going. 

 

First at this point , it is all about the money, profit. If it is not profitable , you are out. That is the system running in this world. As long as that is running as major issue, you dont get anywhere.

As long as BK and other parts of the country can live with the air pollution, no problem.

 

We had month ago bamboo cups plates, cups coming in as "natural" made items. No more plastic.

However to make these, they used compounds in it to shape and hold the shape. Those compounds are soluble and comes into your food, drink. Not good for humans ! End of story, they are now banned.

 

We had (have? was amazed) a factory specialized in plastic recycling. Amazed because I heard all plastic was (is?) transported to China, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand. There should be a lock on it now from importing countries.

However they run not that well, as the costs of recycled plastic was a bit higher or about the same then "new plastic".

All depends on oil prices.So what happens, the new plastic is still more bought then the recycled, no big difference in money. Why change then? 

 

The sugar cane is squeezed and the juice they use for ethanol, but not the left over. Left over is used for generating electricity, paper, boards, carton or animal feed and or even human food.. I see in wiki, just one factory once did investigation of making more alcohol form left overs sugar cane.

 

From bio mass you can produce fire briquettes, very useful in Thailand as gas prices going up and people cant cook anymore. But never the less, if there is no profit for a company they will not do it and government is too lazy.

 

Probably people in Thailand dont know either they can have subsidies to start such a thing.

I know from Satun, there was a a rubber pillow factory, subsidized by government. OK , now out of order as selling was a problem. Also in Satun they have a biomass generator, mostly fed by old rubber trees.

 

We know, we have to change our ways, but will we as long as capitalisme is running?

Maybe nature will decide for us earlier, "unexpected" and hard.

 

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, xtrnuno41 said:

We know, we have to change our ways, but will we as long as capitalisme is running?

Absolutely right ,  it is all about economics. Many of the rice farmers in our area are subsistence farmers , they barely make a living, they can't afford high tech solutions without help from the government.

Brazil is a capitalist country, yet they were able to solve the burning problem . The government simply helped develop a process and an infrastructure, that changed the economics of the industry, and made it economically viable to not burn. I don't see why the Thai government cant do the same, or something similar. 

[Stevemercer]

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

It is still smoldering this morning. I have a problem here. There are dead leaves all over the place, about 2 rai worth plus I have 9 dead trees to cut up and dispose off.

 

Does anyone have any ideas how to dispose of them?

 

We have 5 Rai with many trees and I used to burn it off in a mosaic fashion. However, I've stopped doing that now as the leaves, branches and fallen trunks put more back into the soil, and protect it, as they degrade.

 

I tend to pile the larger branches together is strategic locations (as a bit of a 'wildlife refuge) and use the fallen trunks to make natural borders (for example around a pond).

 

Another major advantage is that the leaf litter deflect raindrops from directly hitting the bare soil and helps reduce erosion once the first wet season storms start rolling over in (hopefully) the next month or two, and before the new shoots give protection.

[canopy]

11 hours ago, sirineou said:

it is all about economics

 

Farmers do not burn for economics. This can easily be verified by asking them why they do it. But if believing that allows you to sleep better through all the smoke then so be it. Look around, everything down to the smallest leaf, twig, and blade of grass in someone's yard is burned in this country. It's never about economics.

 

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, canopy said:

 

Farmers do not burn for economics. This can easily be verified by asking them why they do it. But if believing that allows you to sleep better through all the smoke then so be it. Look around, everything down to the smallest leaf, twig, and blade of grass in someone's yard is burned in this country. It's never about economics.

 

No , it does not help me sleep better at all. maybe I will try a better pillow LOL. 

What reason other than economics could there be? There are several options to clear a field, and burning it makes the best economic sense. I am sur they dont burn it so they can play their fiddle while they watch it burn. 

[DUNROAMIN]

On 2/28/2021 at 9:51 PM, billd766 said:

I live in rural Kamphaeng Phet backing onto the Mae Wong national park

 

Across the road and away from the national park (at least today) the sky is burning as the farmers burn off all the leftover rubbish from probably the sugar cane. It happens most years and tomorrow there will be black "snow" everywhere. Of course nobody knows how it started as par for the course.

 

The bad news is that the province has only had 2.7ml of rain since 24th November last year, all the trees have shed their leaves and the land is tinder dry. What concerns me is that farmers on our side of the road my carelessly drop a burning cigarette or some gasoline and the park will burn again.

 

The only way that the rangers can fight that fire is manually in the forest itself as there is only one road at this end and over 950 sq/km ready to burn. 

The government made a policy that farmers must stop burning crops to reduce air pollution, however, Thai farmers here are like the 'three wise monkeys'.

[Tarteso]

Enjoy the Buddhist long weekend and don’t forget buy lighters... 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Tarteso

[Morch]

On 3/1/2021 at 11:33 AM, billd766 said:

It is still smoldering this morning. I have a problem here. There are dead leaves all over the place, about 2 rai worth plus I have 9 dead trees to cut up and dispose off.

 

Does anyone have any ideas how to dispose of them?

 

Our plot is elevated relative to the neighboring ones, so I collect all cuttings, grass, branches, trunks and throw them in the slope near the "border". Stomp on them some. Rinse repeat. Slowly but surely, it all rots, eventually becoming not too shabby soil. And keeping the existing soil from washing to the neighbors' land.

 

Interesting branches and root bits I keep for decoration or growing orchids, some bigger pieces used to block and mark areas. A couple set for dog to play on/in/whatever.

[Tarteso]

Come on Thais... let’s go for the 200 ! 
You can!

 

[billd766]

On 3/1/2021 at 6:10 PM, HashBrownHarry said:

 

post deleted by me.

[billd766]

March has been a mad month so far. On the 1st the government water supply ran out, so people have to go to the amphur in the big village to sign up for a delivery by the fire trucks. That will probably go on until mid May unless we get an early wet season.

 

This afternoon, 3rd March we had a power outage that lasted about 4 1/2 hours. We also had a thunderstorm with some heavy rain on and off for a couple of hours that just ran off the hard baked soil.

 

That is the most rain I have seen since the middle of November last year.

 

The good news is that the heavy rain has hopefully put the fires out.