Making a driveway

[thaisail]

Does anyone have some experience with making a 100 meter long driveway at a fair price? Our house is now finished and the road that was put in for the construction trucks was made by digging clay out of the ground to make a pond. If they had put in this clay at an angle so that the water would either drain to the sides or run down the length of the driveway down to the road, we would have no problem. However the man who put in the driveway did it completely level so that when it rains the water drains through the gravel and softens the earth under. So when I drive my pickup truck up the driveway after the rain, the wheels push the gravel into the soft clay under and I get two deep ruts in the road. If they had put some sort of angle to allow the rain water to run off instead of creating puddles in the road, we could arrive at our house without dragging so much mud on the wheels. We have had the gravel truck come and dump more gravel three times but each time the earth is so soft, that the wheels just push the gravel down into the mud. Anyone know a solution to this problem rather than having to put a cement driveway in all the way down to the road, which will cost about 80,000 baht?

[Pilotman]

ours , also around  100m, in concrete, 85,000 Baht by a local jobbing builder.  Looks about the same width

Edited March 4, 2021 by Pilotman

[Crossy]

Just keep adding gravel or laterite if it's available. You will eventually stabilise as a "rustic, grass up the middle" driveway.

 

For 100m you are going to need a significant amount of gravel, start at the road road end and once that's reasonably stable move inwards.

 

If you go concrete you are still going to need a decent foundation (hardcore / gravel).

 

[Morakot]

The issue here is not so much the angle of the road, but the used material itself.

 

First of all, you need a sufficient layer of coarse gravel or broken stones as a foundation layer. We are really taking about a minimum of 25 cm. From I can see, they used your fine builder gravel that is merely acceptable as a top layer, but not as a foundation

 

Creating an angel by having a small crest in the middle of the road will only a marginally help. If you use clay soil you need to increase the depth of the foundation layer.

 

There are other factors at play if you have a dam-line construction (raised road), such as the angle of the embankment and sufficient drainage at the foot.

 

[Morakot]

9 minutes ago, Crossy said:

adding gravel or laterite

 

Yes, indeed..  the local style of "foundation engineering" rather than adequate bottoming in the first place.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, thaisail said:

Anyone know a solution to this problem rather than having to put a cement driveway in all the way down to the road, which will cost about 80,000 baht?

No !!  in my 16 year experience.

You wanna a drive to last assuming no big tree roots within reach of the driveway, a 200 mm deep with rebar and a good supplier of a poured ready-mix concrete is the way. 

[thaisail]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

Just keep adding gravel or laterite if it's available. You will eventually stabilise as a "rustic, grass up the middle" driveway.

 

For 100m you are going to need a significant amount of gravel, start at the road road end and once that's reasonably stable move inwards.

 

If you go concrete you are still going to need a decent foundation (hardcore / gravel).

 

I will order the gravel tomorrow. I will ask about laterite but not sure if it is available in Chiang Khan. What size gravel do I order? If there is a number our local guy would relate to or a size in cm or mm that would be helpful. We have a huge local quarry in Chiang Khan about 10 km from my house. Perhaps it is worth a ride over there to see what they have. I really like your idea of putting two separate paths for the wheels with grass growing up in the middle. It will look great! Thanks for the advice.

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, thaisail said:

Does anyone have some experience with making a 100 meter long driveway at a fair price? Our house is now finished and the road that was put in for the construction trucks was made by digging clay out of the ground to make a pond. If they had put in this clay at an angle so that the water would either drain to the sides or run down the length of the driveway down to the road, we would have no problem. However the man who put in the driveway did it completely level so that when it rains the water drains through the gravel and softens the earth under. So when I drive my pickup truck up the driveway after the rain, the wheels push the gravel into the soft clay under and I get two deep ruts in the road. If they had put some sort of angle to allow the rain water to run off instead of creating puddles in the road, we could arrive at our house without dragging so much mud on the wheels. We have had the gravel truck come and dump more gravel three times but each time the earth is so soft, that the wheels just push the gravel down into the mud. Anyone know a solution to this problem rather than having to put a cement driveway in all the way down to the road, which will cost about 80,000 baht?

We have a very similar driveway to yours. It has gravel that needs a minor top up very occasionally.

The important point that you did not do, we did, is before laying gravel you need to put down something to stop it being absorbed into the clay. We used shade cloth under part of it & when that ran out put down the blue/light blue semi waterproof material often used on building sites. You can’t do this while the clay is as wet as in your picture, it basically needs to be dry or almost dry. It won’t look like a great weed free gravel drive but it is totally functional. Here is our drive 4 years after we first put the gravel down 

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

Just keep adding gravel or laterite if it's available. You will eventually stabilise as a "rustic, grass up the middle" driveway.

You need a barrier on the soil before adding the gravel or laterite to avoid it being absorbed into the subsoil.

[foreverlomsak]

4 hours ago, thaisail said:

Does anyone have some experience with making a 100 meter long driveway at a fair price? Our house is now finished and the road that was put in for the construction trucks was made by digging clay out of the ground to make a pond. If they had put in this clay at an angle so that the water would either drain to the sides or run down the length of the driveway down to the road, we would have no problem. However the man who put in the driveway did it completely level so that when it rains the water drains through the gravel and softens the earth under. So when I drive my pickup truck up the driveway after the rain, the wheels push the gravel into the soft clay under and I get two deep ruts in the road. If they had put some sort of angle to allow the rain water to run off instead of creating puddles in the road, we could arrive at our house without dragging so much mud on the wheels. We have had the gravel truck come and dump more gravel three times but each time the earth is so soft, that the wheels just push the gravel down into the mud. Anyone know a solution to this problem rather than having to put a cement driveway in all the way down to the road, which will cost about 80,000 baht?

Your drive looks just like the village road in front of our house when I first arrived here, 13 years later and 3 layers of material (earth, sand and gravel, then gravel each 2 years apart) they laid a concrete road on top. After 2 years it is mostly rough surface and nearly down to the rebar in places.

good luck

[Crossy]

6 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You need a barrier on the soil before adding the gravel or laterite to avoid it being absorbed into the subsoil.

 

Yeah, I think we got lucky as our ground wasn't sopping wet and the sub-structure was well compacted by the construction traffic.

[canopy]

It never ceases to amaze me that the world learned how to make good rock roads since roman times, it's easy, and yet so many still live the in the dark ages and just slop something on and see what happens. But all you have to do is follow several simple, cheap rules:

 

1. compact the road. take a truck full of rock and pay him to run up and down the road moving over a little each time to pack down the loose earth. do this on a day it isn't too muddy.

 

2. You are using the wrong type of gravel. Your type is designed for making concrete, not roads. I see this all the time--waste of money. When using aggregate of equal size there are gaps between the rocks. This allows the mud below to squish and siphon up through these gaps like a sponge and you get exactly what is in your picture--mud on top and rock below. The type of rock for making roads in Thailand is called "heen klook". It's common and easy to find. Heen klook is varying size aggregate and will create a solid mass.

 

3. pour new rock and crown the road. water standing on the road is your worst enemy. 

 

Mine looks like new after over 10 years. I've never added more gravel or regraded it and it takes the weight of excavators, 22 wheel double trailers, just anything. Why? Because the dirt is compacted, the road is crowned, and the rock is the correct type. That's it, piece of cake. Your road is now done and you never have to worry about it ever again.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

2 minutes ago, canopy said:

2. You are using the wrong type of gravel. Your type is designed for making concrete, not roads. I see this all the time--waste of money.

Our driveway uses that gravel 

 

3 minutes ago, canopy said:

This allows the mud below to squish and siphon up through these gaps like a sponge

Ours doesn’t, it has a barrier under it and the drive is shaped.

[canopy]

While you could work around some problems using concrete rock, there are good reasons not to use that type of rock for roads. Because the rocks are the same size there will always be gaps between them and the rocks will never fit tightly together (that's by design so when making concrete sand will fill up these gaps solid). This means such rock never packs down completely and stay loose. This is not as comfortable or stable a surface to drive on, like driving on marbles. It can also slush the rocks over to the sides of where the tires are running and you need to regrade it. It also makes for more dust plumes with the rocks rubbing and chalking each other when you run over it. And for most people the biggest problem is the mud oozing up through the gaps. I see no advantage of using concrete rock for roads, only disadvantages. Use heen klook (หินคลุก). It's designed for making roads and works better, is cheap, and easy to find. What's not to like?

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by canopy

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, canopy said:

I see no advantage of using concrete rock for roads, only disadvantages.

The advantage for us is that concrete gravel is available 300 metres from our front door, and none of the disadvantages you have listed have happened (or are showing any signs of happening) since it’s been down 4~5 years now.

 

So while the road rock may well be better, it’s not better enough in our case. (It is certainly more expensive due to the transportation distance if not material cost)

[JonnyF]

We used bricks on each side to keep the gravel in, with about 3 or 4 inches of gravel in the middle. It's held up well after 3 years. Total cost was about 20,000 Baht if I remember correctly, maybe 30,000 I'd have to check how many trucks of gravel we bought. I considering concrete but I like the idea of it being easily moved if we buy more land on either side of us.

 

 

 

[Crossy]

Good points on the type of gravel.

 

The stuff Madam gets is definitely NOT the concrete type it has loads of different size bits (some rather too big). After rain and being driven on it ends up like concrete.