Feed for Tilapia.

[Nibor1945]

I have read that Napier grass, Pakchong 1, can be fed direct to Tilapia as an additional food after it has been shredded/mulched. Has anybody any experience of this? If it can be, how would it compare to Mombasa grass with regard to protein. could either be pelletised together with a commercial feed (eg pig food pellets).

    Also a question regarding greening fish pond water, could the commercial dried, powdered cow dung be added to the water and if so, what would the best method of introduction be.

    After twenty five years of marriage my Thai wife has started asking about digging a fish pond on our 1 i/2 rai, initially a 10m x 20m x 4m pond. Friends of mine have tried fish farming but the cost of feed and pilfering made it a loss making experiment.

 

[Disillusioned One]

I can't help with your technical questions but I grow Tilapia as a byproduct of an aquaponics system. I would offer that if your intent is to grow Tilapia for the fun of it or for your own sustenance in the form of known organic nutrition, then go for it. On the other hand, if your looking for profit in the form of a business, I wish you luck. Obviously some people are making it work but it seems to me, the margins are so slim, your only going to succeed at grand scale.

[Nibor1945]

31 minutes ago, Disillusioned One said:

I can't help with your technical questions but I grow Tilapia as a byproduct of an aquaponics system. I would offer that if your intent is to grow Tilapia for the fun of it or for your own sustenance in the form of known organic nutrition, then go for it. On the other hand, if your looking for profit in the form of a business, I wish you luck. Obviously some people are making it work but it seems to me, the margins are so slim, your only going to succeed at grand scale.

Thanks, yes I am looking at making a small profit on the investment and am aware of the margins involved, hence my questions. The fish pond is for the wife while I will use the matured pond water for watering my fruit trees. I will finance the digging but the wife will stock it, that way I will feel less pain when fish are stolen/redeployed.

[IsaanAussie]

Raising fish naturally in green ponds (no feed added) was covered by a few members about ten years ago. You may be able to dig those topics out of the archives that still exist. 

I have had catfish in our pond which lived on natural feed. I manured the pond with wash water from the pig sty waste system occasionally and grew water plants like water lettuce on the surface. Should note here that catfish can survive in low oxygen level water which results if too much nitrogen builds up. They can actually breathe air at the surface. Other fish cannot and if you over manure a pond of fish, they will all be floating belly up in the morning. Except the catfish.

Having said that, people will often suspend a rice bag full of cow manure in the pond and "float" a rice straw bale or two. The trick is to get the natural balance of life established in the pond. When you see dragon flies and the like over the surface, then add the fish.

There is a lot of good information on fermenting feeds to increase feed value where you can use stuff like cassava peels and low grade rice bran as a base. Moringa is another high protein source. I would suggest you use water plants rather than and fodder grasses. They grow on the pond and the fish eat the roots and foliage without having to be harvested and chopped. 

Forget commercial cow manure, let it be known locally you want a few bags and will pay 40 baht each to the first to deliver, job done. Last time I did it the cost was 25 baht a bag (some years ago). 

Leave you with a question or two:

- where are you going to get the 800,000 litres of water to fill and then keep this pond full? 

- have you considered a series of smaller ponds as part of the landscaping? Allowing for batching rather than one shot. It would allow the water to be pumped into another pond for reuse at harvest time rather than just onto the ground. 

- since you would like to see some return, how do you plan to harvest the fish? Sell them to who?

Remember, a couple of bits of wire, a motorcycle battery and a small net on bamboo pole is all the midnight shoppers need to "help you out" catching your fish! 

I hope this gives you something to think about if you haven't already. Apologies if you already have the development plan worked out, and in that case I would welcome further discussions.

 

 

[kickstart]

Been talking to my neighbour ,who rears Tilapia,or Bla Nin in Thai he said you can feed Napier to fish, but you will not get the growth weight ,the Napier will have to be well chopped ,another expense in buying a chopper Mombasa would be a better grass it has a higher protein ,but you still would not get the growth rates .

My neighbour has feed duck weed to his fish ,but again slow growth rates, he also said depends on your stock ,if they come from say CP they will be like a F1 breed ,and will need a proper fish food to get any growth ,unlike the Bla Nin's in your local  klong ,which will grow eating klong grass etc .

Cow dung will work the fish will eat the worms and incests in the dung .his pond is a natural colour, never added any cow dung ,but his pond with the hot weather the water is evaporating at a fair rate ,with no rain being forecasted he could well have problems . 

You would have to feed a proper fish food pig food or poultry food ,will have a lower protein  than fish food ,also it is more expensive ,all the soya in the pig and poultry food. 

[IsaanAussie]

Glad you joined the discussion KS.

I hope a few more "old members" do too.

 

[Nibor1945]

Thank you both IsaanAussie and Kickstart, you've given me food for thought if not for Tilapia. A bit of Background information, The property is a total of two Rai, of that only a rai and a bit is available. the house and its resident dogs would be situated fairly near the proposed Pond/ponds. There is a borehole that used to supply the house before it was connected to the mains water supply, I originally intended to have a water storaage pit dug to help us through the dry season, now I shall think about making two slightly smaller ponds and use them in turn pumping out from one at harvest time and topping up the second pond and stocking that one in turn. Of course re-using the water cancels the idea of greening the water and relying instead on growing aquatic greenery.

   I know from friends experience that relying on "Proper fish food" cuts the profit margins razor thin, which is why I was investigating a supplentary food source and trying to find a balance between costs and growth rates.

   As for Harvesting and disposal that would be done by our local agent, on a supply stock, harvest and supply pump and labour basis which is most common in this area. His profit is another incentive to "shave costs" by supplementing (not replacing entirely) feed. Anyway thanks again for your input.

[IsaanAussie]

Now its getting interesting. First, as a farmer relying on commercial feed what chance do you have for a profit? F@uck ALL. Relying of commercial "best practice" regardless of the animal, fish or fowl you farm 80%of your costs. It is prescripted. CP Owns this space!

 

[ozzydom]

8 hours ago, Nibor1945 said:

Thank you both IsaanAussie and Kickstart, you've given me food for thought if not for Tilapia. A bit of Background information, The property is a total of two Rai, of that only a rai and a bit is available. the house and its resident dogs would be situated fairly near the proposed Pond/ponds. There is a borehole that used to supply the house before it was connected to the mains water supply, I originally intended to have a water storaage pit dug to help us through the dry season, now I shall think about making two slightly smaller ponds and use them in turn pumping out from one at harvest time and topping up the second pond and stocking that one in turn. Of course re-using the water cancels the idea of greening the water and relying instead on growing aquatic greenery.

   I know from friends experience that relying on "Proper fish food" cuts the profit margins razor thin, which is why I was investigating a supplentary food source and trying to find a balance between costs and growth rates.

   As for Harvesting and disposal that would be done by our local agent, on a supply stock, harvest and supply pump and labour basis which is most common in this area. His profit is another incentive to "shave costs" by supplementing (not replacing entirely) feed. Anyway thanks again for your input.

For starters, a 200sq m pond will only carry about 300 Pla Nin, enough for a Thai family to consume ,but far short of being viable as a commercial venture.

4metre is ok as water storage but useless as Pla Nin habitat,as Pla Nin live in only 1-1.5 metre the bottom 2 metre ends up a dark ,dank. nitrate loaded environment.

The  first object in still water Tilapia growing is to create an environment rich in micro organisms and phytoplankton which are Tilapias natural diet as they are screen feeders,

The easy way to create an initial bloom is to toss a couple of Kg of 16-20-0 fertilizer dissolved in a bucket into the pond, we use Rabbit brand as it seems to dissolve easier than others.

After a day or two a green algeal bloom will appear for a few days then dissipate,and presto your Tilapias home is on the go.

As has been previously stated,farming Tilapia is at best a break even proposition at this time,so just treat it as such and you can have fun with it.

 

[thoongfoned]

3 different styles: wife buys the fish in bags once every 4 ish years, never buys feed,  can eat them from 6  months in pond, max 0.5kg most around 300/400 grams, they just reproduce then get eaten.

family a short walk from us rear them on shop bought feed, have 5 large ponds, always selling fish most under the 1kg at 70 baht kg. they whole sale most to the guys with the tanks in back of pickup trucks, must earn a bit or would not keep doing, (need to buy feed) being going 6 plus years.

contract growing for betagro. many people in the village started this some years ago, say 6 or 7 families. some dug ponds on 20 plus rai most "only" dug under 10 rai. now only 2 still doing it, alot were loosing 50/60,000 baht a cycle..(if you dont produce x amount of kg per stocking volume you end up paying for percentage of feed.) that would be on say 4 or 5 ponds 20m x 40m per cycle. on top of that feed lose/cost you would have to factor electric cost for bore pump plus the chemicals they use to try and keep he water ph on track. from what i see they average 0.6/0.7kg in 4 months, with high mortality rate.

[Nibor1945]

More thanks for the input, I understand the depth issues of growing Tilapia. All the fish ponds I have seen were 'stepped' at about 2m with the shelf extending out another 2m and excavated in the middle to a maximum of 4m. That supposedly lowers the water temperature slightly and provides emergency shelter in the event of excess water loss.

     Can I ask for your opinions on this idea, Increasing the dimensions of the main pond to 15m x 20m x 3m (stepped), digging another pond by the side of that 10 x 20 x 4m as water storage. Tab-Tim stocked in the first pond, at harvest time water pumped into second pond to top it up then stocked with Bla duk (Catfish). working from hopefully, rainy season to rainy season. Would the catfish be OK in the deeper second pond and what level should they be stocked? I'm not looking to make a living from this, nor do I wish to run at a complete loss. Therefore a slower growth rate due to feed suplementation is not a major concern, where as a complete ballsup is. The fact is that much of the land is not being used and there is increasing pressure to utilise it from "her who must be obeyed".  

[Nibor1945]

30 minutes ago, thoongfoned said:

3 different styles: wife buys the fish in bags once every 4 ish years, never buys feed,  can eat them from 6  months in pond, max 0.5kg most around 300/400 grams, they just reproduce then get eaten.

family a short walk from us rear them on shop bought feed, have 5 large ponds, always selling fish most under the 1kg at 70 baht kg. they whole sale most to the guys with the tanks in back of pickup trucks, must earn a bit or would not keep doing, (need to buy feed) being going 6 plus years.

contract growing for betagro. many people in the village started this some years ago, say 6 or 7 families. some dug ponds on 20 plus rai most "only" dug under 10 rai. now only 2 still doing it, alot were loosing 50/60,000 baht a cycle..(if you dont produce x amount of kg per stocking volume you end up paying for percentage of feed.) that would be on say 4 or 5 ponds 20m x 40m per cycle. on top of that feed lose/cost you would have to factor electric cost for bore pump plus the chemicals they use to try and keep he water ph on track. from what i see they average 0.6/0.7kg in 4 months, with high mortality rate.

Thanks, I was still typing as you posted this. yes I have some experience of contract rearing with betagro, however that was with chickens and many many moons ago. Now at 75 the joys of 'eye dropping 10,000 newly delivered chick holds little attraction. As you say the cost of feed to keep within the contract, rendered the whole Business low profit for all but Betagro. This fish idea is firstly to placate the missus and secondly to try not to lose money.

[ozzydom]

1 hour ago, Nibor1945 said:

More thanks for the input, I understand the depth issues of growing Tilapia. All the fish ponds I have seen were 'stepped' at about 2m with the shelf extending out another 2m and excavated in the middle to a maximum of 4m. That supposedly lowers the water temperature slightly and provides emergency shelter in the event of excess water loss.

     Can I ask for your opinions on this idea, Increasing the dimensions of the main pond to 15m x 20m x 3m (stepped), digging another pond by the side of that 10 x 20 x 4m as water storage. Tab-Tim stocked in the first pond, at harvest time water pumped into second pond to top it up then stocked with Bla duk (Catfish). working from hopefully, rainy season to rainy season. Would the catfish be OK in the deeper second pond and what level should they be stocked? I'm not looking to make a living from this, nor do I wish to run at a complete loss. Therefore a slower growth rate due to feed suplementation is not a major concern, where as a complete ballsup is. The fact is that much of the land is not being used and there is increasing pressure to utilise it from "her who must be obeyed".  

I am not a fan of stepped ponds,as initial harvesting is usually by seine  or cast net and these ponds are to deep to work in.

As well, ponds need maintenance periodically due to erosion silting and stepped ponds are almost impossible

to get a tractor into the lower level and macro,s are too expensive.

I say this from experience as our initial pond dug 15 years ago is 1.5 rai and has about 1.5 metres of gunky mud in the lower section and is now only used to toss undersized into to grow on with no feeding as our pekin ducks put enough manure in it to promote natural feed.

Every couple of years we pump the water down to the step level to refill harvested ponds and cast net what we can,currently there are 2kg Tilapia as well as Pla Buek upto 20 kg in residence.

[Nibor1945]

44 minutes ago, ozzydom said:

I am not a fan of stepped ponds,as initial harvesting is usually by seine  or cast net and these ponds are to deep to work in.

As well, ponds need maintenance periodically due to erosion silting and stepped ponds are almost impossible

to get a tractor into the lower level and macro,s are too expensive.

I say this from experience as our initial pond dug 15 years ago is 1.5 rai and has about 1.5 metres of gunky mud in the lower section and is now only used to toss undersized into to grow on with no feeding as our pekin ducks put enough manure in it to promote natural feed.

Every couple of years we pump the water down to the step level to refill harvested ponds and cast net what we can,currently there are 2kg Tilapia as well as Pla Buek upto 20 kg in residence.

Yes the drawback with the stepped ponds is the need to 'pump out" to harvest in the trench between the step, hence the need for two ponds, On the plus side it gives the opportunity to dry, Lime and/or clean out the pond bottom, which at 3m would be feasable by Mecho every few years. I don't have the land or inclination to go into this on a grand scale, not to lose money would be most satisfactory. I'm grateful to be able to leech from your combined experience, Thanks to all.