Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[NewlyMintedThai]

I think that is a good decision.


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[GarryP]

16 minutes ago, thunder18 said:

Yes. I am taking it as an option. :)

So far no one pointing to the official requirements and/or procedure of closing the visa due to obtaining Thai nationality. Is there any official pages related to the process?

 

There will be a risk if I ever decide to enter Thailand as a holder of the passport of my current nationality (I have no plans to cancel my current citizenship). Then there will be problems on arrival - with all the overstay, missed 90-days reports and all of that sht. :)

So better to have it properly closed. That is the plan.

 

If you decide to enter Thailand on your home country passport, you are asking for trouble. Why would you do that anyway if you are Thai?  You should enter on your Thai passport or risk losing your new Thai citizenship. If you wish to maintain your Thai citizenship and not put it at risk, you do not get a choice which passport to use entering and leaving Thailand . 

 

No one is talking about giving up your current citizenship, although I assume you are probably from one of the countries that does not allow dual citizenship - could this be a reason why you wish to keep you passport free from the stamp/note cancelling your Thai visa.    

[thunder18]

14 minutes ago, NewlyMintedThai said:

By the way, I just looked at my old original passport and could find no stamp indicating that I had adopted Thai citizenship. The cancellation appears to have been done in immigration’s database only. This was seven years ago, mind you.

Hmm.....seems now they do stamps. There are a couple of reports here on this thread, a few pages back. I am referring to those (my thai citizenship application is on the MOI's queue, not received anything yet but expecting it soon).

If they not stamp anything while closing the visa - then my initial question is closed. I simply don't want such stamp to my foreign passport, and that's all about it.

[thunder18]

1 minute ago, GarryP said:

I assume you are probably from one of the countries that does not allow dual citizenship - could this be a reason why you wish to keep you passport free from the stamp/note cancelling your Thai visa.    

Bingo. :)

[NewlyMintedThai]

I hope your home country does not actively look for people who have been naturalized elsewhere. In this day and age, it would probably not be difficult for them to find out, if they are actively trying to do so.


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[NewlyMintedThai]

I mean, their first clue might be that you have probably had a Thai “immigrant” visa in your passport for a while now. Unless perhaps your route is not via PR.


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[thunder18]

2 minutes ago, NewlyMintedThai said:

I hope your home country does not actively look for people who have been naturalized elsewhere. In this day and age, it would probably not be difficult for them to find out, if they are actively trying to do so.
 

Well, it is an age of computers and databases. Sooner or later they might know, if they care to check.

However a plain stamp "...obtained Thai citizenship", written in English on my foreign passport over the last pages [always to be checked first] - will give them....errr....a great hint, lol.

That's why I no need such of stamp. Even by having a risk of departing as foreigner and to have the visa closed @land checkpoint or @airport, but not in ChengWattana (where they WILL stamp it for sure, as it was reported on these pages).

 

"Have the passport lost" is another oprion, but more headaches to have it re-issued (I must fly to my home country and have it issued there).

 

 

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, NewlyMintedThai said:

By the way, I just looked at my old original passport and could find no stamp indicating that I had adopted Thai citizenship. The cancellation appears to have been done in immigration’s database only. This was seven years ago, mind you.


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Mine was also cancelled without any visible marks whatsoever in my passport, which just looked as if the re-entry visa was allowed to expire, but that was because Immigration has a system for cancelling PR and they are mainly concerned about getting your alien and residence books back. There is clearly no proper system for cancelling other types of visa, so they just scrawl something in the passport. Hopefully they also cancel the visa in the database.  

 

[Arkady]

3 hours ago, thunder18 said:

Well, it is an age of computers and databases. Sooner or later they might know, if they care to check.

However a plain stamp "...obtained Thai citizenship", written in English on my foreign passport over the last pages [always to be checked first] - will give them....errr....a great hint, lol.

That's why I no need such of stamp. Even by having a risk of departing as foreigner and to have the visa closed @land checkpoint or @airport, but not in ChengWattana (where they WILL stamp it for sure, as it was reported on these pages).

 

"Have the passport lost" is another oprion, but more headaches to have it re-issued (I must fly to my home country and have it issued there).

 

If you don't want the handwritten essay in your passport and don't want to 'lose' it, you have two options.  Don't bother to cancel your visa or leave on a foreign passport one last time and re-enter on the Thai passport.  Probably not cancelling the visa is the preferable option.  You would be an overstayer but probably the worst that could happen would be that they would fine you the maximum of B20,000, if they were able to match up the details on your foreign and Thai passports.  There must be a lot of naturalised Thais who don't cancel their visas because SB doesn't tell them to and they must just think they will expire without problem which is most likely the case.  The second option is also not very high risk either, in my opinion, but less preferable, because you might have to answer the question of why are you still using a foreign passport.  You could easily say you were told you had to close out the loop of your visa and that you haven't had time to cancel your citizenship yet.  I don't think the electronic gates prevent people with passports that haven't exited the country from entering the country.  There are a lot of Thais living overseas entering the country every day with new passports issued by a Thai embassies overseas.  They used to have problems at manned counters but I think they get through the electronic gates without trouble.  Still this is not the preferred option in my opinion.

 

One important thing you should be aware of is that SB is required to write to your embassy to inform them that you have been granted Thai citizenship.  If your country has no embassy in Thailand, which sounds as if it may be the case, they are supposed to write to the foreign ministry of your home country. They would probably get the Thai foreign ministry to do this for them, since that would be the normal protocol as police cannot write directly to a foreign government.  If this is an issue, who knows, perhaps they could forget to do this, if you talked to them nicely.  You still have to submit the declaration of intent, if your country has no embassy in Thailand.  I don't know if you can get away with doing this in front of a Commissioner  for Oaths, or similar, in your home country but it is more likely you would have to do it at your foreign ministry or some other government department.            

[qualtrough]

I am just about ready to submit all my documents to the SB. The one thing that worries me is the donation requirement. How much weight does that get in the assessment? If they see it was made only a few months before the application does that mean they won't consider it, or does it just mean a point deduction? This is my one area of concern at the moment.

 

I would also like to recommend that if you need anything translated you have it done at the MFA. I had one doc translated elsewhere and the rest at the MFA. They sent the other one back twice. First because of really nit-picking requirements, like the close needed to say 'With kind regards' instead of 'With sincere regards' (equivalent in Thai) and a few similar things. Second time was because they wanted to see the original doc again.

 

This could all have been avoided had I had them translate that doc as well. Location is right at the top of the escalator to the second floor. Apologies if this has been dealt with here before.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

13 minutes ago, qualtrough said:

The one thing that worries me is the donation requirement. How much weight does that get in the assessment? If they see it was made only a few months before the application does that mean they won't consider it, or does it just mean a point deduction? This is my one area of concern at the moment.

 

I would also like to recommend that if you need anything translated you have it done at the MFA. I had one doc translated elsewhere and the rest at the MFA. They sent the other one back twice. First because of really nit-picking requirements, like the close needed to say 'With kind regards' instead of 'With sincere regards' (equivalent in Thai) and a few similar things. Second time was because they wanted to see the original doc again.

 

This could all have been avoided had I had them translate that doc as well. Location is right at the top of the escalator to the second floor. Apologies if this has been dealt with here before.

The proof of charity donations (not less than 5,000 baht) is a requirement and has nothing to do with the points calculation. It clearly says "the money must have been donated long time ago and not just in time to support the application". I imagine SB will tell you what to do in that case, like how long you need to wait after your latest donation before you can apply.

 

For the other point, I believe there is no 100% perfect application and therefore no point trying to guess what is a perfect approach for each requirement. You mention the need to use MFA translation offices... I have used none and all my translations were accepted so far (although I must admit, this is likely because they were certified by my embassy). On the other hand, I was requested a bunch of things that others applicants were probably not bothered with...

 

 

[Arkady]

MoFA doesn't have any public translation offices. They only do notarisation of translations done by others. There are some private translation agencies with offices in the same building as MoFA's consular section at CW but they are not part of MoFA or endorsed by them.  They just happen to rent space in the same building.

[yankee99]

9 hours ago, qualtrough said:

I am just about ready to submit all my documents to the SB. The one thing that worries me is the donation requirement. How much weight does that get in the assessment? If they see it was made only a few months before the application does that mean they won't consider it, or does it just mean a point deduction? This is my one area of concern at the moment.

 

I would also like to recommend that if you need anything translated you have it done at the MFA. I had one doc translated elsewhere and the rest at the MFA. They sent the other one back twice. First because of really nit-picking requirements, like the close needed to say 'With kind regards' instead of 'With sincere regards' (equivalent in Thai) and a few similar things. Second time was because they wanted to see the original doc again.

 

This could all have been avoided had I had them translate that doc as well. Location is right at the top of the escalator to the second floor. Apologies if this has been dealt with here before.

Assuming your wife like most thais has been making donations for years. Ask her to go and get some back dated receipts. My wife didn't even know she could get receipts.

[greenchair]

17 hours ago, thunder18 said:

Yes. I am taking it as an option. :)

So far no one pointing to the official requirements and/or procedure of closing the visa due to obtaining Thai nationality. Is there any official pages related to the process?

 

There will be a risk if I ever decide to enter Thailand as a holder of the passport of my current nationality (I have no plans to cancel my current citizenship). Then there will be problems on arrival - with all the overstay, missed 90-days reports and all of that sht. :)

So better to have it properly closed. That is the plan.

 

I went to immigration to "close my visa " they didn't know what I was talking about. If anyone has an example of the stamp, visa cancelled due to attaining thai nationality, please post. 

Gary p is correct, you need to leave on your thai passport. Your nationality is in the government Gazette. This is similar to a new law being officially anounced to the public and all agencies. Bankruptcy cases are advertised like this. After that all agencies are responsible for having that knowledge. Any problem with immigration over the visa is there's. Now that you are thai there should be no reason for you to use your foreign passport in Thailand. Relax, enjoy your new found freedoms and stop making yourself a headache. 

[thunder18]

13 hours ago, Arkady said:

If you don't want the handwritten essay in your passport and don't want to 'lose' it, you have two options. 

<crop>

Thanks for your long response. It cleared some points....

How about the third option - I just popped up the idea.... what if I just ask my employer to "quit" me officially, and inform the Immigration and Labour Ministry to cancel the visa and WP? This shall close the visa loop without any "strange stamps" I think...Then the employer may re-employ me as Thai on the next day.

Still have the question of getting "the body" out of Thailand and obtain the departure stamp (=not be decided as "still reside Thailand with the visa cancelled" person), but that is a lesser part of the problem I think.

 

PS: my ground of obtaining Thai citizenship is "Thai spouse", and my current visa is Non-B. I don't have any PR. I will have to cancel WP, so the visa, anyway....

 

 

 

[greenchair]

14 minutes ago, thunder18 said:

Thanks for your long response. It cleared some points....

How about the third option - I just popped up the idea.... what if I just ask my employer to "quit" me officially, and inform the Immigration and Labour Ministry to cancel the visa and WP? This shall close the visa loop without any "strange stamps" I think...Then the employer may re-employ me as Thai on the next day.

Still have the question of getting "the body" out of Thailand and obtain the departure stamp (=not be decided as "still reside Thailand with the visa cancelled" person), but that is a lesser part of the problem I think.

 

PS: my ground of obtaining Thai citizenship is "Thai spouse", and my current visa is Non-B. I don't have any PR. I will have to cancel WP, so the visa, anyway....

 

 

 

Why must you make things so complicated? 

Yes, you must return your your wp, the same as you returned your yellow book. This is because both of those items belong to the Thai government not you. As does your thai passport. 

You are a Thai citizen now. 

Your foreign passport and any visa in it is no longer relevant to thailand. You don't need to cancel your visa. But go ahead make a headache for everyone if that's what you want. 

[greenchair]

18 hours ago, thunder18 said:

Hmm.....seems now they do stamps. There are a couple of reports here on this thread, a few pages back. I am referring to those (my thai citizenship application is on the MOI's queue, not received anything yet but expecting it soon).

If they not stamp anything while closing the visa - then my initial question is closed. I simply don't want such stamp to my foreign passport, and that's all about it.

So correct me if I am wrong. 

All this headache, but you have not actually recieved your citizenship. 

[thunder18]

11 minutes ago, greenchair said:

So correct me if I am wrong. 

All this headache, but you have not actually recieved your citizenship. 

As said earlier - I am expecting my citizenship in a few next months (already passed an interview @MOI a year ago). I will be facing the task of closing visa and all that anytime soon. I am checking here just in advance, not waiting for the very last minute.

 

Yes, it is always a headache to be good and follow the rules properly. Is there any official pages describing the process of returning wp/yellow book/visa and the rest of "clearance"? Or shall I just ignore returning all that, just as you are suggesting it with visa?

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, thunder18 said:

Thanks for your long response. It cleared some points....

How about the third option - I just popped up the idea.... what if I just ask my employer to "quit" me officially, and inform the Immigration and Labour Ministry to cancel the visa and WP? This shall close the visa loop without any "strange stamps" I think...Then the employer may re-employ me as Thai on the next day.

Still have the question of getting "the body" out of Thailand and obtain the departure stamp (=not be decided as "still reside Thailand with the visa cancelled" person), but that is a lesser part of the problem I think.

 

PS: my ground of obtaining Thai citizenship is "Thai spouse", and my current visa is Non-B. I don't have any PR. I will have to cancel WP, so the visa, anyway....

 

This one doesn't seem to help because, as you say, you will still on Immigration's database as not having left Thailand.  The only difference would that the expiry date of your visa would be brought forward.    

 

There is no need to cancel WP.  The  rule that it was the property of the Thai government and had to be returned was eliminated in the 2008 Working of Aliens Act.  You are allowed to keep cancelled and expired WPs for your records.  Just let it expire and keep it.

 

You hand back your yellow tabien baan and replace it with a blue one at the same time as you get your ID card. In fact you need to do the tabien baan first but should normally be able to do both in one day, if you start early enough in the morning.

[greenchair]

13 minutes ago, thunder18 said:

As said earlier - I am expecting my citizenship in a few next months (already passed an interview @MOI a year ago). I will be facing the task of closing visa and all that anytime soon. I am checking here just in advance, not waiting for the very last minute.

 

Yes, it is always a headache to be good and follow the rules properly. Is there any official pages describing the process of returning wp/yellow book/visa and the rest of "clearance"? Or shall I just ignore returning all that, just as you are suggesting it with visa?

Yes, there is an official requirement to return your wp and your yellow book. 

When you go to get your ID card you must submit 

Yellow book. 

Copy of every page of your passport .

You must go to your embassy and have your passport verified.

Then take that to mfa and get the translation service to translate the first page. 

Then take those both to the mfa for official confirmation 

Then take all of that to the umpur with the blue book and yellow book. 

When your name goes into the Blue book you are officially a Thai citizen. They will not give you the yellow book back. Your foreign passport is no longer valid in Thailand. There is no official requirement to cancel the visa. If someone would post the stamp I might believe them. 

 

[greenchair]

28 minutes ago, thunder18 said:

As said earlier - I am expecting my citizenship in a few next months (already passed an interview @MOI a year ago). I will be facing the task of closing visa and all that anytime soon. I am checking here just in advance, not waiting for the very last minute.

 

Yes, it is always a headache to be good and follow the rules properly. Is there any official pages describing the process of returning wp/yellow book/visa and the rest of "clearance"? Or shall I just ignore returning all that, just as you are suggesting it with visa?

Oh right, so apparently by Arkady you can in fact throw away your wp or let it expire naturallyand keep it. 

And I stand by my no need to cancel visa, not because of something I read on thaivisa, but because as I am a citizen ,I just went to the immigration last week and they  (the real professionals ) told me my foreign passport is irrelevant now. 

So you are right, just ignore all of that headache and return the yellow book. 

Relax. 

[skippybangkok]

I was amazed at the passport process - I was in and out of the passport application Center in 7 mins flat, and picked it up the next day.

Hard to beat that


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[NewlyMintedThai]

Yes...amazingly efficient. Perhaps because the process is (reportedly) contracted to the public sector. Whatever it is, it is fantastic. Done it three times already.


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[thunder18]

47 minutes ago, greenchair said:

You must go to your embassy and have your passport verified.

Then take that to mfa and get the translation service to translate the first page. 

Then take those both to the mfa for official confirmation 

Then take all of that to the umpur with the blue book and yellow book. 

Thanks.

1. What is the purpose of translating & verifying the passport once more (did it once submitting my documents to SB years ago, so they definitely have it along with my application)? Get it translated and verified JUST to get it not valid in Thailand on the next day onwards? Seems not that logical to me.

2. How can I "take all of that to the umpur with the blue book" if I don't have blue book?

[Arkady]

55 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Yes, there is an official requirement to return your wp and your yellow book. 

When you go to get your ID card you must submit 

Yellow book. 

Copy of every page of your passport .

You must go to your embassy and have your passport verified.

Then take that to mfa and get the translation service to translate the first page. 

Then take those both to the mfa for official confirmation 

Then take all of that to the umpur with the blue book and yellow book. 

When your name goes into the Blue book you are officially a Thai citizen. They will not give you the yellow book back. Your foreign passport is no longer valid in Thailand. There is no official requirement to cancel the visa. If someone would post the stamp I might believe them. 

 

 

In fact you are legally Thai according to the Nationality Act the moment your name is published in the RG, although no one will believe you without an ID card and tabien baan showing Thai nationality.

 

In fact many Thais refuse to believe you are Thai even with an ID card, tabien and naturalisation certificate. I can't remember how many times I have received ignorant comments like, yes, but what is your nationality?  Many seem to think my ID card is the same as a pink ID card. But to hell with them.

[NewlyMintedThai]

They just want to know your “chuachart” vs your “sanchart”. Go easy on them.


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[greenchair]

4 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

In fact you are legally Thai according to the Nationality Act the moment your name is published in the RG, although no one will believe you without an ID card and tabien baan showing Thai nationality.

 

In fact many Thais refuse to believe you are Thai even with an ID card, tabien and naturalisation certificate. I can't remember how many times I have received ignorant comments like, yes, but what is your nationality?  Many seem to think my ID card is the same as a pink ID card. But to hell with them.

That's funny. Yes, everyone thinks my id is fake. Yeah right they say wink wink. 

[NewlyMintedThai]

I keep a photograph of the document signed by the King in my phone for exactly such an encounter. I imagine it would shut them up fast, but I’ve never had to use it (yet).


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[greenchair]

15 minutes ago, thunder18 said:

Thanks.

1. What is the purpose of translating & verifying the passport once more (did it once submitting my documents to SB years ago, so they definitely have it along with my application)? Get it translated and verified JUST to get it not valid in Thailand on the next day onwards? Seems not that logical to me.

2. How can I "take all of that to the umpur with the blue book" if I don't have blue book?

I already had that argument down at the umpur. Then I went and slagged her off at the translation office. But as I moved forward, I was in fact completely wrong and she was right. Why don't you have a blue book? It is the book that you used to get your yellow book. 

You will have to take that and the owner of the blue book to the umpur to have your name transferred. 

[NewlyMintedThai]

They mean the BLANK blue book (or it may have household members who are Thai listed in it already. It’s so they can add you.


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