Should I Correct American Spellings ?

[DrFisher]

First I would correct you in saying it is North American "English" not "American English" and just as Quebec has a way of speaking a form of French (not excepted by France) we people of North America have a way of speaking English that is simplified and more modern than the "old English". As 80% (actually I think more) of the people who speak English in the world speak North American English perhaps it is we who should do the correcting. Personally I don't care but on many occasions when I here something in "English" it strikes me as odd like the vocabulary doesn't exist to say something properly so it is improvised. For example "washing up liquid" does it say that on the bottle? and what is it you are "washing up"? Anyway thats my idea.

[aussiestyle1983]

The post about changing Zee to Zed so it does not get confused with C, makes sense, but there are too many letters ending in E, like (b,c,d,e,g,p,t,v,z) anyway, so I just let them say Zee. But that was a very good point. I just keep it a simple as possible and believe, Zee is the easiest to learn and sounds better in words. We could also change Bee to Bed, Cee to Ced, Dee to Ded, E to Ed or just leave it alone anyway because that letter is the cause of this, Gee to Ged, Pee to Peeing, Pissing or Ped, Tee to Ted, Vee to Ved and of course, just let Zee be Zed. As I said before, we use languages to communicate so as long as we can communicate and understand each other, it shouldn't matter what form of English we use. As DrFisher pointed out, the correct name of the English, it doesn't matter what the correct name of the English is because wheather or not we call it American or North American English, everyone in this thread has understood what we are talking about. Ahhhh, communication....................

Edited May 20, 2007 by aussiestyle1983

[DrFisher]

I'm still going to say zee-bra, zed-bra is just to strange. In any event Thais have to learn how to say "zee" and not confuse it with c as they have 5 tones we are required to learn to speak Thai so should they learn to speak "English" properly. I get very upset when my daughter comes home from school with some stupid "English trick" how to say something improperly but sound close. If you are an English teacher teach English if you are a magician teach tricks. As I have said in many posts in my classes spelling and grammar do not count, with in reason (obviously I'm not an English teacher) but if it is bad I will visit your English teacher and ask why.

[ProThaiExpat]

PeaceBlondie: I can't resist, heard this on a flight from Tokyo to Osaka "Sankyou belly much for frying Japan Airlines, we hope you enjoyed your fright"

[PeaceBlondie]

We native speakers of English seldom realize that we have four alphabets, and what has just been discussed here in much detail is the names of letters, not their sounds.

There are two printed alphabets, upper and lower case (or as North Americans say, capital and small). There are two cursive (written) alphabets, also upper and lower case. That's four, not counting all the various fonts. I prefer that the name of the letter sound like it, and little more. Therefore, zed is less effective than zee, having one more sound that's immaterial.

Does this discussion illustrate that teaching EFL is no easy walk in the park? How do you explain 'before' or 'after' in a long sentence, when the subordinate clause seems to have the wrong conjunction or adverb? You can say "I did that before I came here" or "I came here after I did that," but how to explain it to students with very limited vocabulary? That's only one of hundreds of examples, and a 120 hour TEFL course can't cover more than a few examples.

Johnnie the bricklayer and Joanie the waitress cannot expect to walk in and start teaching all this unless they really know their language grammatically, dramatically, and analytically.

[DrFisher]

PeaceBlondie: I can't resist, heard this on a flight from Tokyo to Osaka "Sankyou belly much for frying Japan Airlines, we hope you enjoyed your fright"

Now that's funny

[the gent]

Johnnie the bricklayer and Joanie the waitress cannot expect to walk in and start teaching all this unless they really know their language grammatically, dramatically, and analytically.

I bet you can't rhyme orange........

[wolfmanjack]

First I would correct you in saying it is North American "English" not "American English" and just as Quebec has a way of speaking a form of French (not excepted by France) we people of North America have a way of speaking English that is simplified and more modern than the "old English". As 80% (actually I think more) of the people who speak English in the world speak North American English perhaps it is we who should do the correcting. Personally I don't care but on many occasions when I here something in "English" it strikes me as odd like the vocabulary doesn't exist to say something properly so it is improvised. For example "washing up liquid" does it say that on the bottle? and what is it you are "washing up"? Anyway thats my idea.

Actually i think the term "webster's english" would be more appropriate. In the USA there are many accents that do not match webster's english which is mostly spoken in midwestl and the western USA.

Edited May 20, 2007 by wolfmanjack

[DrFisher]

Yes wolfmanjack, I do believe you are correct in saying "Websters English" and I have heard it said (though I don't know if it's true or not) the reason we spell differently than the UK was to gain our own identity and break away from the the Queens English. On another note PeaceBlondy why can't I find any English teachers like you in this city to teach my child as well as my students, thus far all the teachers seem to be of the "Johnnie the bricklayer and Joanie the waitress" you described.

[BlackArtemis]

I teach at a school using American English books. What I did before teaching was go through the books and write down all the words that get split. ie: apartment and flat. A lot of these kids get tutoring at places using British English, so what I do is this. If it is in the book I teach them to spell it the same way, so when they read it they understand it. If we come across other words, I let it slide. However, I ALWAYS write both on the board and explain that they mean the same but Americans and people from the U.K. (and other places) use different words. it seems to work out pretty well.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, Dr. Fisher, but maybe I'm a bit of an intellectual snob. I was raised by college graduates in a district where everybody spoke radio English (that is, northern Indiana standard broadcasting accent). We learned grammar. I got zero in 11th grade if I misused their/there/they're or its/it's or to/two/too on any English class paper. I lost a spelling bee over 'dinosaur' and never forgot how to spell it. I could write essays at age 17, and got letters to the editor published then. I wrote letters to US Congressmen, professionally, and I'm not too bad at spellink, eyther.

It's the how stuff that gets a TEFLer mixed up. How to teach the two th sounds, or the ch versus the sh. How to teach phonics (pronouncing by reading the spelling). How to teach the English words key, geek, and yet without them thinking of the Thai words. And so on.

[Mid]

blame Bill Gates and his oxymoron ,

American English ............sheeesh.

[anthonyaus]

I have difficulty with the use of the word learnt. I think points should deducted for spelling it this way (not that I'm an English teacher) instead of: learn/learned depending on the context.

In my opinion the use of the word learnt simply makes one sound uneducated. Sort of like "ain't got none".

[colino]

Seems like i have opened a nice can of worms ,,

i tell my students that if you write a cv to a uk company then use the queens english, or they will think you cant spell and it could end up in the bin

i could be wrong though

[Polarbeast]

As spelling is the subject of this thread - how come so many English-speaking people on various fora don't seem to know the difference between "there" and "their" ? Normally they write "there" when it should be "their", but I have also seen the opposite.

Some of the spelling I see, reminds me of the "French-speaking" Englishman in "Allo, allo"!

( F. eks. "I have scene...." )

Edited May 20, 2007 by Polarbeast

[Crossy]

"Good moaning, I was pissing by your door" ^^^

I don't teach, but I do vet documents written by numerous engineers whose first language is not English.

I don't care which set of spellongs they use, so long as they are consistent, using 'tire' (as in motor vehicle) and 'colour' in the same document ires me

Edited May 20, 2007 by Crossy

[enuff said]

.

Ah yes Polar... you forgot "they're" along with "there" and "their". Confusion over these three words has to be one of the most common errors in written communication. At least it seems so on the internet in forums and chat rooms, too.

A long time ago, one of my English teachers wrote this sentence:

There, by the window, they're practicing their song.

I don't know if it helped anyone else but I have always remembered it and it pops into my head whenever I use one of the three; reminding me to check and make sure I have used the right one.

'nuff said

~

[Gumballl]

As an American and I am in LOS or other SE Asian country, I despise having to asking for the location of the "toilet" when I am in a restaurant, bar, etc. I prefer the American term "restroom". It sounds less vulgar. There are times when all I want to do is wash my hands and I certainly do not want to wash them in a porcelain bowl that Americans tend to call a toilet. I want to use the sink.

Funny thing at the airport in Taipei occurred to me once when I forgot my place (probably due to jet lag) and asked an airport employee the location of the "restrooms". She directed me to the restaurants! I had to go back to her and say "no, not the restaurant, the toilet".

[Jamie]

For those English teachers out there, do you teach the older students how to diagram a sentence? That was a nightmare for me in high school. I still wake up in a cold sweat thinking of direct objects, modifiers, predicate nouns, prepositional phrases, oh and not to forget about participial phrases and clauses.

[PeaceBlondie]

For those English teachers out there, do you teach the older students how to diagram a sentence? That was a nightmare for me in high school. I still wake up in a cold sweat thinking of direct objects, modifiers, predicate nouns, prepositional phrases, oh and not to forget about participial phrases and clauses.

I never loved to diagram sentences, but it was part and parcel of my secondary education, so I still tend to do it. I tried it one time when tutoring, to a student who'd never seen a diagram. It instantly made sense, stripping away the minor clauses and illustrating that boy loves girl, and then we tried boy gave girl present. The second sentence was, "Then the very shy boy gave a nice birthday present to the girl who wanted him to ask her for a date." It also showed how adjectives only modify nouns, but adverbs modify nouns and verbs; how the article a is followed by a consonantal sound; the difference between the definite and an indefinite article; a long subordinate clause that described the girl, etc.

One technique that the Thai teachers of English use is V1, V2, V3, the three forms of a verb such as is, was, and been. I can no more avoid teaching a little grammar, along the way to teaching sentence structure and meaning, than a mechanic can avoid saying 'wrench' or 'sedan.' Oops, maybe those are 'spanner' and 'saloon.'

[mijan24]

Considering the varied background of my pupils, I would consider the following:

1. Are they heading towards any universal test for the country in question (O levels, SAT, etc.)?

2. Does my school have a policy (is it considered a "British" or "American" school)?

3. Have my students themselves expressed preferences, either individually or collectively?

If there are no definite directions indicated by any of the above, I would simply ask the students to choose one system and stick with it (providing some examples in the differences and extra information if the students want it), with the caveat that I will be using and teaching only in one of the systems in the classroom. I wouldn't penalise anyone for correctly using another valid system.

"Steven"

IJWT as usual a very sensible response highlighted by the last sentence - I wouldn't penalise anyone for correctly using another valid system. Which is very apt.

[ProThaiExpat]

As an American and I am in LOS or other SE Asian country, I despise having to asking for the location of the "toilet" when I am in a restaurant, bar, etc. I prefer the American term "restroom". It sounds less vulgar. There are times when all I want to do is wash my hands and I certainly do not want to wash them in a porcelain bowl that Americans tend to call a toilet. I want to use the sink.

Funny thing at the airport in Taipei occurred to me once when I forgot my place (probably due to jet lag) and asked an airport employee the location of the "restrooms". She directed me to the restaurants! I had to go back to her and say "no, not the restaurant, the toilet".

There are many Brits in the forum that are more qualified to speak on this subject, however, I recently read an article about Brits in the U.K. and class standing as judged by words used. One of the distinctions made was that high class Brits would be caught dead before using toilet, they always say restroom. Since high class Brits must speak the "Queen's English" I doubt restroom is an American word in origin.

Interesting side note, lounge areas in lady's restrooms in the U.S. were referred to as "retiring rooms" before equal rights required that men's restrooms have them also, and thus they have been abandoned in new construction. Likewise, the split toilet seat (restroom seat??) equal rights caused them to be installed in ladies restrooms, but for what purpose you might wonder.

My take on the most misused expressions or words in English by native speakers are: consensus of opinion, infer and imply and another very common error that doesn't come to mind at the moment. Help please.

Brit talk such as pissup for meeting, knock up for going to visit and spot of tea must drive English learners headaches as they are so nonsensical. Are these slang expressions, if so, they can be forgiven as slang is local vernacular which is nonsensical by definition.

Edited May 21, 2007 by ProThaiExpat

[apex2000]

I am British and therefore use British spellings when teaching. However, if I know of an American spelling which is different to the British spelling, then I always explain it to my students. This also goes for pronunciation which is often different too. Not too difficult I would have thought.

[wolfmanjack]

As an American and I am in LOS or other SE Asian country, I despise having to asking for the location of the "toilet" when I am in a restaurant, bar, etc. I prefer the American term "restroom". It sounds less vulgar. There are times when all I want to do is wash my hands and I certainly do not want to wash them in a porcelain bowl that Americans tend to call a toilet. I want to use the sink.

Funny thing at the airport in Taipei occurred to me once when I forgot my place (probably due to jet lag) and asked an airport employee the location of the "restrooms". She directed me to the restaurants! I had to go back to her and say "no, not the restaurant, the toilet".

There are many Brits in the forum that are more qualified to speak on this subject, however, I recently read an article about Brits in the U.K. and class standing as judged by words used. One of the distinctions made was that high class Brits would be caught dead before using toilet, they always say restroom. Since high class Brits must speak the "Queen's English" I doubt restroom is an American word in origin.

Interesting side note, lounge areas in lady's restrooms in the U.S. were referred to as "retiring rooms" before equal rights required that men's restrooms have them also, and thus they have been abandoned in new construction. Likewise, the split toilet seat (restroom seat??) equal rights caused them to be installed in ladies restrooms, but for what purpose you might wonder.

My take on the most misused expressions or words in English by native speakers are: consensus of opinion, infer and imply and another very common error that doesn't come to mind at the moment. Help please.

Brit talk such as pissup for meeting, knock up for going to visit and spot of tea must drive English learners headaches as they are so nonsensical. Are these slang expressions, if so, they can be forgiven as slang is local vernacular which is nonsensical by definition.

Thanks for the background on some words.

The most common mistake by native speakers i see (on Thaivisa also) is using irregardless instead of regardless. Wikipedia says that it is in dictionaries now and is making its way toward standardization. Just thought i would throw that in before someone else did.

[PeaceBlondie]

Regardless of it being wrong, irregardless is becoming so common (at least among American native speakers) that the two words may soon be like flammable and inflammable - synonyms, even though they should be antonyms!

Speaking of toilets, bathrooms, rest rooms, retiring rooms, etc., we were taught to use 'the ladies' room' in a formal setting. The super euphemism was when the lady would excuse herself, merely saying she had to go powder her nose. Maybe the ladies' room was also the powder room. I laugh when I see WC, both in Thailand and Latin America. I understand it means 'water closet' but does that refer to the little room being a closet, or to the plumbing mechanism having a water tank? American TV host Jack Parr lost his job as host of the Tonight Show over a silly WC joke that was censored, giving Johnnie Carson a long-running job in his place.

Another irritating phrase used by Americans, is to say ironically, "I could care less" when they mean "I couldn't care less."

[colino]

An agency i worked for employed a french guy last term ,

he spent the first week teaching and said to me i tink i make mistake the tai kids are saying, ello ow r you

[andy1308]

I work for a publishing company in Thailand and we have adopted American English for all our English language publications. One reason is that Thailand uses the US style of billion, as opposed to the British version.

[calibanjr.]

Regardless of it being wrong, irregardless is becoming so common (at least among American native speakers) that the two words may soon be like flammable and inflammable - synonyms, even though they should be antonyms!

Another irritating phrase used by Americans, is to say ironically, "I could care less" when they mean "I couldn't care less."

Flammable/inflammable always made me wonder.

I'm not an overly-persnickety type, but the "could care less" thing always frosted me since it is logically opposed to what the speaker actually means.

This sort of "creeping legitimacy through usage" occurred with "nauseous", which used to mean "creating nausea" but was used so incorrectly so often that it now has the meaning of causing nausea (the proper meaning, formerly) as well as co-opting the definition of being "nauseated" which used to be the correct and therefore much more precise way to communicate the concept.

End of trivial whining (for now).

Edited May 21, 2007 by calibanjr.

[ProThaiExpat]

As an American and I am in LOS or other SE Asian country, I despise having to asking for the location of the "toilet" when I am in a restaurant, bar, etc. I prefer the American term "restroom". It sounds less vulgar. There are times when all I want to do is wash my hands and I certainly do not want to wash them in a porcelain bowl that Americans tend to call a toilet. I want to use the sink.

Funny thing at the airport in Taipei occurred to me once when I forgot my place (probably due to jet lag) and asked an airport employee the location of the "restrooms". She directed me to the restaurants! I had to go back to her and say "no, not the restaurant, the toilet".

There are many Brits in the forum that are more qualified to speak on this subject, however, I recently read an article about Brits in the U.K. and class standing as judged by words used. One of the distinctions made was that high class Brits would be caught dead before using toilet, they always say restroom. Since high class Brits must speak the "Queen's English" I doubt restroom is an American word in origin.

Interesting side note, lounge areas in lady's restrooms in the U.S. were referred to as "retiring rooms" before equal rights required that men's restrooms have them also, and thus they have been abandoned in new construction. Likewise, the split toilet seat (restroom seat??) equal rights caused them to be installed in ladies restrooms, but for what purpose you might wonder.

My take on the most misused expressions or words in English by native speakers are: consensus of opinion, infer and imply and another very common error that doesn't come to mind at the moment. Help please.

Brit talk such as pissup for meeting, knock up for going to visit and spot of tea must drive English learners headaches as they are so nonsensical. Are these slang expressions, if so, they can be forgiven as slang is local vernacular which is nonsensical by definition.

Thanks for the background on some words.

The most common mistake by native speakers i see (on Thaivisa also) is using irregardless instead of regardless. Wikipedia says that it is in dictionaries now and is making its way toward standardization. Just thought i would throw that in before someone else did.

Thanks wolfmanjact, regardless vs. irregardles is exactly the one I was trying to bring to mind. I would rate it as the word most often mis-used by native English speakers. I am not surprised that liberal dictionary writers now allow it, based on the ill gotten justification of "usage".

A very popular Japanese dish called Sukiyaki is most often mispronounced by westerners who know little about Japanese pronunciation. The u is not sounded so the correct pronunciation is Skiyaki. However, due to the American occupation, it was mispronounced so often that Japanese now say Sukiyaki and that pronunciation is found in most dictionaries. Tokyo is likewise mis-pronounced as Tokio.

Getting old I guess.

[Ijustwannateach]

^Yes, when I'm using Japanese I pronounce the double-"o" in Osaka and don't stress the second syllable, as English speakers are wont to do. I had a Japanese friend whose English was so good that imitated the stress when he spoke English and even added a bit of a lisp to the end (oSAker), though he spoke the name perfectly when speaking Japanese.

Mijan,

Thanks- part of my reasoning may come from my feelings when I was in school, because I had picked up a lot of British spelling and had started to use it in writing. My English teacher at the time (and none of the ones after) always took off a token point, which made me so angry at the pettiness that I resolved to do it even more!!!

Thanks to most of our posters for keeping this from becoming a spelling/grammar flame war. It's interesting to talk about the similarities and differences.