Initial things to consider when building a house in Thailand - ideas?

[AlfHuy]

8 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

aha no, the house is perfectly straight

for some reason it's just the photo giving this impression

That's what the ones with big beer bellies say. When they see a young, good looking girl, suddenly they walk straight like a candle.

[Mister Fixit]

3 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

Nobody said you dont speak Thai did they?   I said "if" ??  Try reading my post first.

 

And  "if" you dont speak Thai and have to go through your wife everytime they ignore your plans or they cut a piece out of your toilet door because they have hung it swinging the wrong way etc (yes Ive seen it) you may very well get close to divorce.  You obviously need to read more building posts.

 

And the way you have reacted to my post also suggests that indeed you wont make it through without some calming medication lol!

I see I have hit a sore point with you, from your responses and your numerous laughing emojis.  There's always one who'll spoil a perfectly decent thread.  ????

 

And you obviously haven't real all MY posts properly, because I have said numerous times that I will not be doing any building.  That's the family job, using their local builders.  I've only said it about a dozen times, can't see how you missed it!  ????

 

I do some finishing, such as I might fit the kitchen, possibly a bathtub, I might install extra sockets, but that's it.  

 

As to calming meds, and from my first sentence, you might want to try some yourself.  ????

 

Chok dee, old chap, but I think I have had better advice from other posters.  

 

[Mister Fixit]

5 hours ago, Smithson said:

No matter how tempting, don't build a western style house, take the climate into consideration. Have lots of shade, ventilation and no sun hitting walls or windows. There's so many large houses here where the families spend most of their time outside under a tree of in a sala, because it's cooler.

 

Also consider an outside kitchen, even if it's a second one. Some places have a double carport with a small bathroom and kitchen. This is very practical and can get a lot of use.

 

Yes, I have considered an outside kitchen as well as a carport, but the idea of a double carport with kitchen inside sounds a very good idea.  Thanks for that.  

 

Good advice about the Western style house yoo.  That plan I posted was just something I saw which is a perfect layout for what I had in mind for the ground floor, but I am sure it could be adapted to Thailand.

[kingofthemountain]

35 minutes ago, Mister Fixit said:

Good advice about the Western style house yoo.  That plan I posted was just something I saw which is a perfect layout for what I had in mind for the ground floor, but I am sure it could be adapted to Thailand.

This plan look good for me, it was exactly the same in the house you can see on the photo i have posted.

 

For the roof my advice is going for real tiles, ceramic or terracota

not the usual fiber usualy used by the Thais.

 

Yes it's a little bit more costly and it needs a good reinforced metalic frame because of the weight, but it's much more solid, it could last forever (When the fiber ones need to be changed on a regular basis, basically few of them after every violent storm) and above all the thermal insulation is far better, so it is worth every single bahts of the

extra cost 

Edited April 26, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[Mister Fixit]

5 hours ago, AlfHuy said:

Sorry for questioning.

You want your daughter to get a mortgage for a house, where she won't live.

She can't make a repayment of 10k a month.

How would she get a mortgage? I'm sure, the banks would like to know if she can afford to repay. She most probably is paying a rent somewhere else and has other expenses. If she can't show, that a (let's say 10k) monthly repayment can be afforded, how would she get the money?

On top, what happens, if she want's her "own" house to live in but can't get a loan because she got already one.

For how long would the mortgage be? You are in your 70's and basically the guarantor.

 

Wish you all the best and that's things go the way, you and family wish.

Not a problem questioning, but you really should have read the full thread from the start.

 

To be honest, I can't be bothered to re-write everything you haven't read, but let's try to correct some suppositions and assumptions.

 

You want your daughter to get a mortgage for a house, where she won't live.

No, I DON'T 'want my daughter' to do anything because 1) she isn't my daughter, 2) SHE wants to get a mortgage to build a house on family land, not me, and 3) where she WILL live but probably only at weekends due her work being a good distance away.

 

'She can't make a repayment of 10k a month.'

You seem to have just made that up because that's not at all what I said.  My wife asked me if, when we move there, I could use the money I will no longer be paying in rent to help towards the instalments.  That may be the full 10 grand, it may be less, but 10 grand is a maximum for me.  Perhaps her daughter can pay half and I pay the other, who knows?  She hasn't even applied for anything yet!  It's all in the air, because you seem to have forgotten that this is just a proposal so far.

 

How would she get a mortgage? I'm sure, the banks would like to know if she can afford to repay.

If you had read all the posts, you've have seen me say she has a decent salaried job but until she approaches a bank, no one in the world will know what the outcome will be.  She may be refused, she may not.  She may be offered a loan less than the cost of building so it'll all be off.  And of course a bank will assess the ability to repay before anything else.

 

'She most probably is paying a rent somewhere else and has other expenses. If she can't show, that a (let's say 10k) monthly repayment can be afforded, how would she get the money?'

Again, yet another supposition based on nothing.  She is NOT paying a rent elsewhere and does not have other expenses that I am aware of.  She lives free at her aunt's house quite a distance away as it's closer to her place of work.

 

'On top, what happens, if she want's her "own" house to live in but can't get a loan because she got already one.'

If you'd read the thread in total, you would have seen that she and her mother will own the house, so she will already have one.  Why would she sell it?  That remark makes no sense.

 

'For how long would the mortgage be? You are in your 70's and basically the guarantor.'

Again, had you read the thread, you would have read that I will be having nothing to do with the land or borrowing the capital needed to construct a house.  That - as I have repeatedly said -  is family business and I don't expect, or want, to be involved.  And no Thai bank would accept a 72 year old foreigner as a guarantor, not would I ever offer to be one.  

 

Nice try, but it really does pay to fully comprehend a thread before posting advice or questions based on not reading properly in the first place!  ????

 

But nevertheless questions which need to be asked had they not already been dealt with.  

 

And thanks for your good wishes.  The way some Moaning Minnies are thinking I will need them from the get-go!  ????

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Mister Fixit

[Mister Fixit]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Can't say I've had this problem with my builder.

He gave me some sketches of what he thought I wanted, and I changed them to what I wanted.

Our only differences were he wanted the concrete posts to be 10x10cm, which I thought was a bit small and changed to 20x10cm, and he wanted 180,000bht and I changed to 150,000bht. We haggled about the installments as well, but settled on 80k when he broke ground, and the final 70k when he finished.

 

No Thai language skills were required.

Although we've not settled on the tiles yet.

I've been asking around elsewhere and this seems to be more common than the horror stories the Moaning Minnies seem to love.

 

I've always found that if you treat Thais with respect, are polite and always smile, as well as try to speak at least some Thai, you will always get pretty well what you want.

 

But as I have repeatedly said, I won't get involved in the building to any great degree.  The family are paying for and dealing with everything, so I will only stick my oar in if there's something I particularly disagree with or think they haven't considered or forgotten.  

Apart from anything else, it's over 40 kms away and no local transport so it's not as though I can easily pop over for a nose around.

 

The journey looks simple, but believe me, it isn't always.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Mister Fixit

[Mister Fixit]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Mortgage is calculated on applicants income, outgoings are not considered.

My misses got a 1.5MBht mortgage using forged 25k/month wage slips, they don't check that hard. (if you agree to buy their 20 year cash up front life insurance policy)

 

Interesting.  I asked the wife what she thought her daughter earned but she said they'd not talked about it as it was private.  However, she did say 'praman saam meung gwah' - about over 30,000.  The daughter is a warehouse supervisor with a large Thai-Japanese company and has about 8 years experience, but I think 30k may be a bit high.  

 

However, her payslips would be genuine if it comes to an application.

 

Just for the sake of it, any ideas of what a loan of say, 2 million would likely cost over 25 years in monthly repayments?  Just a rough monthly figure.

I have no idea whatsoever of Thai interest rates and loan calculations.  

Edited April 26, 2021 by Mister Fixit

[kingofthemountain]

4 minutes ago, Mister Fixit said:

Just for the sake of it, any ideas of what a loan of say, 2 million would likely cost over 25 years in monthly repayments?  Just a rough monthly figure.

I have no idea whatsoever of Thai interest rates and loan calculations.  

the kasikorn calculator gives 14100 thb\months with 5,97% interest rate

https://kasikornbank.com/en/Calculator/Home-Loan

of course i am sure you could find a better rate in another bank

and don't forget, the longer the loan is, the more it costs in interest

[Mister Fixit]

25 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

the kasikorn calculator gives 14100 thb\months with 5,97% interest rate

https://kasikornbank.com/en/Calculator/Home-Loan

of course i am sure you could find a better rate in another bank

and don't forget, the longer the loan is, the more it costs in interest

 

Thanks for that, most helpful.  I know she banks with Kasikorn and so do I.  

 

I made an assumption that she earns 30,000 a month and that gives a loan eligibility of about 1.7 million baht over 25 years and repaying 12,000 a month.

 

So it looks like my current rent money will need to be supplemented by her by at least an extra 2,000 baht.  I think I'd be suggesting 8 or 9,000 from me and 3 or 4,000 from her.  After all, she IS going to be the owner of a property and I will have nothing other than a roof over my head until I die.

 

 

[Mister Fixit]

45 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

the kasikorn calculator gives 14100 thb\months with 5,97% interest rate

https://kasikornbank.com/en/Calculator/Home-Loan

of course i am sure you could find a better rate in another bank

and don't forget, the longer the loan is, the more it costs in interest

I just came across this page which is somewhat different.  https://kasikornbank.com/en/personal/Loan/Home-Loan/Pages/Home.aspx

 

Note footnote 2 which says that loans for houses on vacant land are not covered, so that seems to put the block on all that, unless there is a different rate applicable to vacant land building.  

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Mister Fixit

[BritManToo]

53 minutes ago, Mister Fixit said:

Just for the sake of it, any ideas of what a loan of say, 2 million would likely cost over 25 years in monthly repayments?  Just a rough monthly figure.

I have no idea whatsoever of Thai interest rates and loan calculations.  

SCB is more user friendly than the other banks.

1.5M is the max they will loan on a 25k wage, for 2M the wage would need to be 33k/month.

Interest rates are 4.75% at the moment. On a loan of 1.5M the repayments would be about 10k/month.

Expect a 80k bill for life insurance on the mortgage, paid in advance.

They usually spread the term of the loan to last until applicant is 60 years old.

Edited April 26, 2021 by BritManToo

[gunderhill]

On 4/24/2021 at 1:00 PM, Mister Fixit said:

Who says we'll divorce?

Dont  know  u tell me, either that or CALM down, seems to me your  highly strung, just wait until you start  building  a house if you are highly  strung youll be  running for a  cliff to  jump off, I merely  point out that a usufruct is useless in a divorce. Anyway Im done with advice, you can sort it  out yourself.

[gunderhill]

On 4/24/2021 at 4:10 PM, Mister Fixit said:

So why are the rooms in my current house all 4.75 m wide?

 

try READING I said 4  metres for column spacing but it seems you  know it  all, ask for advice then moan and whinge, good  luck youre going to need it.

[Mister Fixit]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

SCB is more user friendly than the other banks.

1.5M is the max they will loan on a 25k wage, for 2M the wage would need to be 33k/month.

Interest rates are 4.75% at the moment. On a loan of 1.5M the repayments would be about 10k/month.

Expect a 80k bill for life insurance on the mortgage, paid in advance.

They usually spread the term of the loan to last until applicant is 60 years old.

That's good to know.  The daughter will be 30 in June so she might be able to get a 30 year loan.

 

I did have an SCB account when I first arrived but that was on Samui and when I moved to Bangkok I closed it and moved to Kasikorn, so I have little experience of SCB.  I will suggest to the wife that she passes that info on to her daughter, although I am sure she will try to play the field when things firm up.

 

I'd say she's on more than 25k, as she is a supervisor with 8 years experience.  Her cousin, my wife's niece , started her first job as a programmer/developer last October on 20 grand and she was only 23.

 

[Mister Fixit]

1 hour ago, gunderhill said:

try READING I said 4  metres for column spacing but it seems you  know it  all, ask for advice then moan and whinge, good  luck youre going to need it.

From the tone of your posts and your PM, I think you need to look in a mirror when you accuse others of whinging!   ????

 

But thanks for your (extremely grumpy) input.  

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Mister Fixit

[Mister Fixit]

1 hour ago, gunderhill said:

Dont  know  u tell me, either that or CALM down, seems to me your  highly strung, just wait until you start  building  a house if you are highly  strung youll be  running for a  cliff to  jump off, I merely  point out that a usufruct is useless in a divorce. Anyway Im done with advice, you can sort it  out yourself.

Advice?  That's what it was?  Okaayyy ...

 

You seem to have read everything wrong and you then accuse others of what you are doing yourself.  Bye, I'm off.  

[Swimfan]

On 4/24/2021 at 12:33 AM, Mister Fixit said:

 

 

I wouldn't do a thing unless I was granted a usufruct to allow me to stay there for the duration of my life.  

Just how do intend to get an unsfruct on something you do not own and are not paying for ? Sisters land, Daughter holds mortgage on property. Am I missing something here? 

[Mister Fixit]

42 minutes ago, Swimfan said:

Just how do intend to get an unsfruct on something you do not own and are not paying for ? Sisters land, Daughter holds mortgage on property. Am I missing something here? 

Er, ask a lawyer if it's possible?  If not, I am sure there'll be some sort of document which will do something similar such as a 'right of habitation'

And then there's always this - https://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/Usufructs.php

And I will be paying the monthly repayments.  There'll be a record of that.

If I were to be kicked out, they'd lose that immediately so not a lot of point.  

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Mister Fixit

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, Mister Fixit said:

Er, ask a lawyer if it's possible?  If not, I am sure there'll be some sort of document which will do something similar such as a 'right of habitation'

And then there's always this - https://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/Usufructs.php

And I will be paying the monthly repayments.  There'll be a record of that.

If I were to be kicked out, they'd lose that immediately so not a lot of point.  

 

 

imo the best option in your case (And also the more simple and secure) should be a 30 years lease agrement registered at the land office

https://www.thaiembassy.com/property/property-lease-agreement-thailand

 

A lot of articles everywhere on internet on the same thing as it's largely used by the foreigners in Thailand to ''own'' land (When in fact legally they are just renting, but when you are 70 yo and you do a rent contract of 30 years, you can easily consider to be the ''owner'' of the land\house for your lifetime)

Edited April 26, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[kingofthemountain]

3 hours ago, Mister Fixit said:

 

Thanks for that, most helpful.  I know she banks with Kasikorn and so do I.  

 

I made an assumption that she earns 30,000 a month and that gives a loan eligibility of about 1.7 million baht over 25 years and repaying 12,000 a month.

 

So it looks like my current rent money will need to be supplemented by her by at least an extra 2,000 baht.  I think I'd be suggesting 8 or 9,000 from me and 3 or 4,000 from her.  After all, she IS going to be the owner of a property and I will have nothing other than a roof over my head until I die.

 

 

You are welcome

 

i understand your thinking and it's logic to ask to the step daughter a contribution, however i don't think they will have the same thinking than you

 

Let's me try to explain their thinking (Of course i could be wrong and i apologize if i hurt you at some point. it's not at all my intention, i just try to see the 2 sides of the coin)

 

so they will probably think you can put 10 000 into it, as it's what you are paying now anyway and they will try to have mensualities not more than this amount, with a lower loan

(And i am sure they can built a house for much less than 2 millions, and it will be more than enough for them)

 

Of course they will not say that to you, but their main concern is you are 72 yo and they have no idea how many years you will be still able to pay the 10 000\month, so they take a risk, and it's a big risk.

 

That's why the daughter will probably put the money she won't going to put on the monthly repayment while you are alive on an account in reserve just in case she has to take over and pay at some point the totality of the montly payment

 

And we can not blame her because it's not a totally improbable hypothesis

 

It's not for nothing that the banks refuse a loan if you are over 60 yo and insurance company refuse to assure you if you are over 70.

 

I hope you understand better their point of view now, and again i apologize if i was too much harsh in my explaination

Edited April 26, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[whaleboneman]

16 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

We have managed the heat quite well by building with Qcon, slotted soffits, and a louvred boston hip each end allowing good flow through.  The Bluescope Clean in white is also a good investment especially with the 30 year guarantee.  Then to finish it off we built a 4 meter wide verandah completely around the house creating large cool shaded areas.

I always loved verandas.

[Smithson]

14 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

For the roof my advice is going for real tiles, ceramic or terracota

not the usual fiber usualy used by the Thais.

These days Thais are using colorbond steel roofing. Tiles will add unnecessary cost due to needing a stronger frame. They store heat and demand a design that traps heat in the roof space. Installation and initial cost is more expensive.

[Mister Fixit]

9 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

You are welcome

 

i understand your thinking and it's logic to ask to the step daughter a contribution, however i don't think they will have the same thinking than you

 

Let's me try to explain their thinking (Of course i could be wrong and i apologize if i hurt you at some point. it's not at all my intention, i just try to see the 2 sides of the coin)

 

so they will probably think you can put 10 000 into it, as it's what you are paying now anyway and they will try to have mensualities not more than this amount, with a lower loan

(And i am sure they can built a house for much less than 2 millions, and it will be more than enough for them)

 

Of course they will not say that to you, but their main concern is you are 72 yo and they have no idea how many years you will be still able to pay the 10 000\month, so they take a risk, and it's a big risk.

 

That's why the daughter will probably put the money she won't going to put on the monthly repayment while you are alive on an account in reserve just in case she has to take over and pay at some point the totality of the montly payment

 

And we can not blame her because it's not a totally improbable hypothesis

 

It's not for nothing that the banks refuse a loan if you are over 60 yo and insurance company refuse to assure you if you are over 70.

 

I hope you understand better their point of view now, and again i apologize if i was too much harsh in my explaination

 

Not at all.  I don't mind paying the same amount as I currently do if I must, and yes, I understand Thai 'logic' as well!  ????  I doubt the daughter will think ahead that much and do as you suggest though.  

 

I think she's going to have to pay something towards it though and I think 2 or 3,000 is reasonable towards a permanent home for the rest of her life.

 

In terms of my age, I am in pretty good general health.  My knees have had it but I can walk OK and my last 6-monthly heart check up 6 weeks ago  was perfect.  I have mentioned before that my mother lived to 101 (and one day) and I am more than sure I have her healthy genes. 

 

I had a full eye checkup about the same time and all is good, although with the beginnings of cataracts in both eyes but the doc said come back in 3 years so they mustn't be too bad.

 

I have a full battery of male hormone tests due next week so I'll know more then but I think all is OK.

 

If I am careful I think I might have about another 20 years, maybe 15, but by then the daughter should have a more senior position, maybe moved on, and a higher salary so she can start paying.

The problem is that she's a feckless obese lump with her hand never outside a packet of Lay's and weighs 5 kgs heavier than I do!  If anyone will be the problem healthwise, it will be her.

 

And thank you or adding to my vocabulary.  I didn't know what mensualities meant until I Googled but I should have guessed it meant monthly payments.

 

Are you French?  I have French great-grandparents as well as German and Belgian grandparents and a Dutch mother!  ????

Edited April 27, 2021 by Mister Fixit

[Mister Fixit]

51 minutes ago, whaleboneman said:

I always loved verandas.

Yes when I read that post I was immediately struck by the idea.  I shall certainly throw that one in the pot when it's time.

[Don Chance]

Check out:

 

 

[Mister Fixit]

1 minute ago, Don Chance said:

Check out:

 

 

Thanks, will do.

[Mister Fixit]

9 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

imo the best option in your case (And also the more simple and secure) should be a 30 years lease agrement registered at the land office

https://www.thaiembassy.com/property/property-lease-agreement-thailand

 

A lot of articles everywhere on internet on the same thing as it's largely used by the foreigners in Thailand to ''own'' land (When in fact legally they are just renting, but when you are 70 yo and you do a rent contract of 30 years, you can easily consider to be the ''owner'' of the land\house for your lifetime)

 

Yes, I spent some time reading last night all about usufructs, rights of habitation and came across the 30 year lease arrangement which I shall read this morning.  That seems the best course, from my limited reading so far.

 

I did have a fairly long chat with the wife last night and mentioned that her daughter might not be able to borrow as much as she'd like which caused a shadow over her face for a while.  However, then she went on to say that her family would help out if necessary.  They probably will but not sure to what extent.  Just don't let them ask me for anything extra.

 

I then went on to say that unless we could agree NOW that if this all comes off and I will make the majority of the monthly repayments then I expected some sort of legal documentation to ensure my tenure there, usufruct, lease, whatever.    

She was all for it then whereas when I mooted it a week ago, she didn't seem as keen saying 'don't you trust me?'   Basically, she got told 'No guarantee, no money'  so I think she's got the message.

[rumak]

On 4/23/2021 at 10:25 PM, kingofthemountain said:

Ok no problem

 

i have paid to build 2 houses in a very rural area in Thailand

the 2 houses were around 80 sqmand the cost was less than 1 M bahts for each of them, but it was few years ago and i had a lot of luck with few bargain

 

Also keep in mind the cost depend a lot of what sort of house you are building between ''thai style'' and ''farang style'' the total cost can be 2 or 3X

 

80 sqm is ok for a family of 3 persons, a couple with 1 child (2 rooms)

 

You don't indicate the size of your family, nor what style of house you want (Aircon? Windows with double glass? Terracota roof? Wood house or bricks? and so on)

so it's really difficult to answer with precision to your question

i would say something between 1 and 2 millions

 

Just for your information in a rural area on a familial land

your ''usufruct'' means nothing in fact, trust me if they want

you move, you will move, usufruct or not

 

i left the others give their acvice as i don't want to bother you with

few things you know already

 

goodluck anyway

 

To the OP:   This is a pretty good post.   I understand YOUR  attitude about people posting warnings , etc  .....BUT  i know that ALL OF US  have thought we were smart and could handle all the situations that come up .   Most of us that did build houses/bought land have learned the hard way .    I could go on, but you will see  ????

ANYWAY,   costs for building are best found out same way as shopping for TVs .   Ask 10 builders in the area what your house would cost ( or find them building one and ask) .

Most houses are built MAOW  ( labor and materials).   I always try to agree on a labor price only,  so I could buy the materials ( everything !   sand, rock, concrete, metal , tiles, all fixtures, etc.     The first time this can be beyond what novices (which at first i was)  can deal with.    I have since built 9 houses.......... 

I drew my house plan on a piece of paper.   Then paid an architect to do a proper set of bluepriints ( maybe cost around 10k baht for a small house). One good way to prevent problems with the local building office is to ask the person there to do the plans.   Things should be all smiley and nice when you build and approval is given.

NOTE:   the comparison from builders should generally be how much the cost is per sq meter.  That is what they generally go by,  but there are of course factors such as how simple or complicated ,  and what materials will be used.

Members here can give you prices that they paid .......... which can be of some use as comparisons.  My houses built 15 years ago are about 100 sq mt ,  still strong and without problems.   approx cost per house was 500 k baht.    Now i imagine close to double that to build

Edited April 27, 2021 by rumak

[rumak]

13 hours ago, gunderhill said:

try READING I said 4  metres for column spacing but it seems you  know it  all, ask for advice then moan and whinge, good  luck youre going to need it.

 

i feel the same way   ????          But gave some information anyway that might be useful to others reading this thread

[Swimfan]

On 4/24/2021 at 4:11 PM, petermik said:

Had this built down south (thai builder) 5 years ago 3 beds/2 baths 120 sq.metres paid builder for labour only bought our own materials....total cost 1.3 million.....QCon block walls CPAC roof tiles and insulated underneath....thai style kitchen.....labour cost 400,000 baht

Nice

is that 120sqm interior space or does that include the veranda and carport?