Video Formats - Mpg , Mpeg - Illumination ?

[farangsay]

I have been faffing around with video clips and finding freeware to play with them.

I saw (and found again) a thread but it concerned burning to DVD but despite what

it says on the front of my Pantip box (DVD/RW) it will only read DVDs so I was

left with writing to CD/RW.

Now I had files with an .MPG suffix and files with an .MPEG suffix and a piece of

"joiner" freeware but it wouldn't accept a mix of the two.

Now I have (in my usual pig-headed , obstinate , bloody-minded way) found

workarounds

But my curiosity is aroused when I find I can batch convert a mix of .MPG

and .MPEG suffix files to "SVCD" format which produces .MPG format files.

The joiner is happy to accept the result.

Good old Windows/XP tells me they are all video clips without going into

further detail , but there are obviously some differences. The "SVCD" output

is a lot more sizable than the MPG/MPEG input.

Is there anybody there who :

Is really bored

Likes educating idiots

Understands MPG/MPEG

[lomatopo]

Freeware joiner apps. typically require that each and every file have the exact same attributes (resolution, frame rate etc.). Just because it's an .mpg file doesn't mean each file has the exact same attributes. You could batch re-encode all of the files to the exact same formt and then join. There may be some paid apps. that will automagically re-encode and join?

Allok offers a wide array of solutions.

[wabear]

VCD movies are usually in AVI format. SVCD movies are usually in MPEG 1 format, and are better quality videos Because of that, MPEG 1 vidoes are much larger than the AVI files. MPEG 2 was created to be even higher quality that MPEG 1, but with additional compression to make them as small as possible. Even with the additional compression the extra quality meant the creation of the DVD disks which can hold much more data than the CD disk.

MP3 video didn't really take off, but the audio component created an MP3 revolution.

Finally DIVX or MPEG 4 is compressed even more than MPEG 2. Often you can convert an MPEG 2 movie from a DVD and fit it on a CD in MPEG 4 format. It's a matter of opinion if you can do that and not notice the difference.

MPEG 1, MPEG 2, and MPEG 4 video files use the MPG or less commonly, the MPEG file extension. You can't tell from the file name whether a video is MPEG 1 or MPEG 2 or MPEG4. There are some other file extensions used as well for MPEG files.

To make it even more confusing, not all MPEG 1 or MPEG 2 movies are the same format. For example you can buy a widescreen movie on a DVD (16:9), or the same movie in full screen format (4:3). You can combine a wide screen and a full screen movie together without some sort of re-formatting which most free video programs are not written to do. However both the widescreen and full screen video file would be MPEG 2. This is just one example of why two MPEG files might not be compatible. There are others.

So..... chances are your original files were MPEG 2 files that had different formats. Your batch conversion job probably converted them to MPEG 1, which made them bigger, and probably created them with the same format.

Just to confuse the issue even more, if you are creating CD or DVD disks for backup or for playing back on a computer, don't run any formating software just create them as a data CD or a data DVD. Each individual video file can then keep it's own format and you can play them back just like they were on your hard drive. If you want to play them back on a DVD player, then you have to format them as a SVCD or DVD disk.

[briley]

I do like the free program gspot from http://gspot.headbands.com/

that will tell you all about your video file in a trice.

[raslin]

Nice one Briley. The gspot thing will be useful.

But anyone know how to convert MP4 to MPEG1 as I'm into VCD not DVD?

In hope

roger

[Veazer]

VCD movies are usually in AVI format. SVCD movies are usually in MPEG 1 format, and are better quality videos Because of that, MPEG 1 vidoes are much larger than the AVI files. MPEG 2 was created to be even higher quality that MPEG 1, but with additional compression to make them as small as possible. Even with the additional compression the extra quality meant the creation of the DVD disks which can hold much more data than the CD disk.

MP3 video didn't really take off, but the audio component created an MP3 revolution.

VCDs use a file structure similar to mpg containers but with the extension .dat and some extra stream info and error correction data. They are never avi files by extension or structure.

SVCD movies use MPEG2, not MPEG1, a more efficient codec which allows them increase horizontal resolution a little and double the vertical resolution to native resolution (576 PAL / 480 NTSC)

You can find a quick comparison of the most common video disc formats here.

For the sake of clarity (I know you didn't state it explicitly) - MP3 is not MPEG-3 but rather MPEG1 layer 3, the compression scheme largely responsible for making music downloads and uploads manageable as you noted. Mpeg-3 video didn't take off because it never really left the lab..

Finally DIVX or MPEG 4 is compressed even more than MPEG 2. Often you can convert an MPEG 2 movie from a DVD and fit it on a CD in MPEG 4 format. It's a matter of opinion if you can do that and not notice the difference.

Compressed to a single CD, the difference will be noticeable but less so on a conventional TV. But, yes, it looks pretty d*mn good considering how much less space it takes up.

@farangsay, i think you'll get better results if you don't join video clips into a single file but instead use a video disc format with some type of menu system so they'll be more accessible. The quality will likely be better since they won't all be force to become the same framerate, etc. If I were you, I would see if you can play SVCDs on your player and if so then use that. It's a nice compromise of size vs quality and doesn't require a DVD writer You can find more info about SVCD authoring here. doom9.net is also a fantastic source of info for video encoding discussions and software.

Nero CD/DVD burning software with the mpeg2 plugin is an easy solution for SVCD creation. Just drop your videos in, create a menu & burn. You don't have lots of control over the menu appearance but it works fine.

[dave_boo]

VCD movies are usually in AVI format. SVCD movies are usually in MPEG 1 format, and are better quality videos Because of that, MPEG 1 vidoes are much larger than the AVI files. MPEG 2 was created to be even higher quality that MPEG 1, but with additional compression to make them as small as possible. Even with the additional compression the extra quality meant the creation of the DVD disks which can hold much more data than the CD disk.

MP3 video didn't really take off, but the audio component created an MP3 revolution.

VCDs use a file structure similar to mpg containers but with the extension .dat and some extra stream info and error correction data. They are never avi files by extension or structure.

SVCD movies use MPEG2, not MPEG1, a more efficient codec which allows them increase horizontal resolution a little and double the vertical resolution to native resolution (576 PAL / 480 NTSC)

You can find a quick comparison of the most common video disc formats here.

For the sake of clarity (I know you didn't state it explicitly) - MP3 is not MPEG-3 but rather MPEG1 layer 3, the compression scheme largely responsible for making music downloads and uploads manageable as you noted. Mpeg-3 video didn't take off because it never really left the lab..

Finally DIVX or MPEG 4 is compressed even more than MPEG 2. Often you can convert an MPEG 2 movie from a DVD and fit it on a CD in MPEG 4 format. It's a matter of opinion if you can do that and not notice the difference.

Compressed to a single CD, the difference will be noticeable but less so on a conventional TV. But, yes, it looks pretty d*mn good considering how much less space it takes up.

@farangsay, i think you'll get better results if you don't join video clips into a single file but instead use a video disc format with some type of menu system so they'll be more accessible. The quality will likely be better since they won't all be force to become the same framerate, etc. If I were you, I would see if you can play SVCDs on your player and if so then use that. It's a nice compromise of size vs quality and doesn't require a DVD writer You can find more info about SVCD authoring here. doom9.net is also a fantastic source of info for video encoding discussions and software.

Nero CD/DVD burning software with the mpeg2 plugin is an easy solution for SVCD creation. Just drop your videos in, create a menu & burn. You don't have lots of control over the menu appearance but it works fine.

Good post, but a couple of minor corrections. Technically, the MPEG specifications are video codecs, not containers. Well, technically MPEG-TS and MP4 are containers, but that's not being discussed here. A container format can contain various encoded data that it identifies and mixes together. That's how VCDs/DVDs can have subtitles, etc. since the MPEG doesn't address that except for closed caption in NTSC. You can use all sorts of container codecs and keep the MPEG encoder. AVI, OGG, VOB, etc. are all popular formats that can use MPEG.

You also touched on re-encoding the clips, I understood you but want to emphasise that encoding one lossy compression to another is usually not a good idea. Also if his player supports divx, that's what quite a few of the mp4 files are encoded in, it is a better idea to keep those. MP4 is not dvd, but the next stage of compression.

As soon as h.264 gets accelerated to the point that it's usable to encode at, i.e. 1/2 or less of real time, that's what everyone should move to. Getting files that are 1/2 the size of mpeg-2 with the same quality if fabulous.

[Veazer]

Good post, but a couple of minor corrections. Technically, the MPEG specifications are video codecs, not containers. Well, technically MPEG-TS and MP4 are containers, but that's not being discussed here. A container format can contain various encoded data that it identifies and mixes together. That's how VCDs/DVDs can have subtitles, etc. since the MPEG doesn't address that except for closed caption in NTSC. You can use all sorts of container codecs and keep the MPEG encoder. AVI, OGG, VOB, etc. are all popular formats that can use MPEG.

good points. I was basing the container statement on this wiki as I wasn't sure myself. I guess technically .mpg files would be considered a stream, yeah? I didn't know VCDs could have subtitles other then those encoded into the video itself though, interesting. As for TS files, so far my experience with them has been a royal pain, lots of sync issues.

You also touched on re-encoding the clips, I understood you but want to emphasise that encoding one lossy compression to another is usually not a good idea. Also if his player supports divx, that's what quite a few of the mp4 files are encoded in, it is a better idea to keep those. MP4 is not dvd, but the next stage of compression.

As soon as h.264 gets accelerated to the point that it's usable to encode at, i.e. 1/2 or less of real time, that's what everyone should move to. Getting files that are 1/2 the size of mpeg-2 with the same quality if fabulous.

I agree about lossy to lossy conversion, but sometimes it's unavoidable unless you've got a player that really works well with mpeg-4 video, especially at non standard resolutions. I assumed his didn't since that would be rather simple to burn the videos to a cd.

I haven't done any h.264 encoding but i've got a few HD mkv files that look fantastic. fun stuff

[dave_boo]

Good post, but a couple of minor corrections. Technically, the MPEG specifications are video codecs, not containers. Well, technically MPEG-TS and MP4 are containers, but that's not being discussed here. A container format can contain various encoded data that it identifies and mixes together. That's how VCDs/DVDs can have subtitles, etc. since the MPEG doesn't address that except for closed caption in NTSC. You can use all sorts of container codecs and keep the MPEG encoder. AVI, OGG, VOB, etc. are all popular formats that can use MPEG.

good points. I was basing the container statement on this wiki as I wasn't sure myself. I guess technically .mpg files would be considered a stream, yeah? I didn't know VCDs could have subtitles other then those encoded into the video itself though, interesting. As for TS files, so far my experience with them has been a royal pain, lots of sync issues.

You also touched on re-encoding the clips, I understood you but want to emphasise that encoding one lossy compression to another is usually not a good idea. Also if his player supports divx, that's what quite a few of the mp4 files are encoded in, it is a better idea to keep those. MP4 is not dvd, but the next stage of compression.

As soon as h.264 gets accelerated to the point that it's usable to encode at, i.e. 1/2 or less of real time, that's what everyone should move to. Getting files that are 1/2 the size of mpeg-2 with the same quality if fabulous.

I agree about lossy to lossy conversion, but sometimes it's unavoidable unless you've got a player that really works well with mpeg-4 video, especially at non standard resolutions. I assumed his didn't since that would be rather simple to burn the videos to a cd.

I haven't done any h.264 encoding but i've got a few HD mkv files that look fantastic. fun stuff

Exactly, once encoded, mpeg files are "streams". The container decides what to do with those streams, video, audio, etc. That's why dvds can contain multiple angles, several different audio tracks, jump to points (a la Matrix green pill), etc.

Technically, mpeg-ts should be easiest to work with, since it was designed for transport over uncertain bandwidth delivery systems. However, practice and theory are obviously two different beasts.

I've tried, perhaps stupidly, to use the h.264 encoder. Even with 2x Opteron 265s running on it, it was something like 2x real time...perhaps more, I forget. That's 4 cores at 1.8GHZ each! Decoding is a lot less problematic, but I still see 50% utilisation across all more cores. I suppose the 7900GTs should be upgraded to either a G80 or R600 to get that down.

Also remember that the *.mvk is another container format. I can't say what your videos were actually encoded with, but *.mvk supports MPEG-2, DivX, XviD, H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, WMV9, FLV1, Theora, and Generic MPEG-4 ASP (3ivx, lavc, etc.). It's actually similar to the VOB specification in what it allows to be done with streams.

I haven't had experience with videos encoded in WMV9, other than those from Microsoft's high definition website. The only really high def videos I've come across otherwise were those from Apple (which uses the h.264) and a rip of "House of Flying Daggers" Blu-Ray dvd that my friend hooked me up with.

[ballbreaker]

You might want to check the following site because it has lots of information on the very subjects you are asking questions about.

www.videohelp.com