Buying A Condo In Bangkok - Advice

[honkin]

My wife and I are coming to Thailand again in October with a view to purchasing a condo in Bangkok. This will be our 10th trip to Thailand and we only have 3 weeks to spend there this time. We hope to be able to finalise the purchase in that 3 week period.

I am wondering if any of the more experienced members have any advice on possible pitfalls to avoid when purchasing, as well as any suggestions as to resources to assist in finding a condo? Things like reputable agents to help locate a suitable property, as well as legal representation to facilitate to purchase.

We also wish to finance this purchase through a lending institution in Thailand. I believe this is possible, through a couple of website I have visited. We would look at obtaining pre-approval for finance before leaving Melbourne and hopefully have 7 or 8 units chosen to inspect upon arrival in bangkok.

Our budget is around 10 million Baht, though as yet we have not selected an area. The purchase is initially to be a rental property, but will eventually be our home once we retire in a few years.

Basically, I just need to pick a few brains as to all of the ins and outs required to make this purchase progress smoothly and legally and any potential traps to watch out for.

We are not really looking at buying off-the-plan. We would be happy with an existing unit. I have seen some refurbished, fully-furnished units going for around the sort of money we have to spend.

Any advice you can give will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[Sophon]

We also wish to finance this purchase through a lending institution in Thailand. I believe this is possible, through a couple of website I have visited. We would look at obtaining pre-approval for finance before leaving Melbourne and hopefully have 7 or 8 units chosen to inspect upon arrival in bangkok.

Since you haven't received any replies I will bump your post.

I believe obtaining finance in Thailand for buying a condo to very difficult. And if you are not living and working in Thailand I don't think it is possible, at all, at least I have never heard of anyone having done it.

Your best bet will probably be to get the finance in place from a bank back home before you come to Thailand.

Sophon

[bkkandrew]

We also wish to finance this purchase through a lending institution in Thailand. I believe this is possible, through a couple of website I have visited. We would look at obtaining pre-approval for finance before leaving Melbourne and hopefully have 7 or 8 units chosen to inspect upon arrival in bangkok.

Since you haven't received any replies I will bump your post.

I believe obtaining finance in Thailand for buying a condo to very difficult. And if you are not living and working in Thailand I don't think it is possible, at all, at least I have never heard of anyone having done it.

Your best bet will probably be to get the finance in place from a bank back home before you come to Thailand.

Sophon

And since you can't legally own it unless it is part of the 49% of the block that is allowed, I would wonder if foreign banks would entertain this...

[backflip]

"[W]e only have 3 weeks to spend [in Bangkok, and] we hope to be able to finalise the purchase in that 3 week period. "

What's the big rush? What's that famous quote about making a quick decision, and then repenting in leisure? No, the other quote...yeah, that's it.

[bendix]

And since you can't legally own it unless it is part of the 49% of the block that is allowed, I would wonder if foreign banks would entertain this...

Not true. I know several people who have purchased condos in this way. Furthermore, I know of at least one person - married to a Thai - who has financed a house and land sale (in his wife's name) using their bank in the UK, while they are still living and working in the UK.

[Simmo]

Who exactly are you going to rent it too? There are 1000's of vacant condos in this city , why is yours going to be any different?.

[bkkandrew]

And since you can't legally own it unless it is part of the 49% of the block that is allowed, I would wonder if foreign banks would entertain this...

Not true. I know several people who have purchased condos in this way. Furthermore, I know of at least one person - married to a Thai - who has financed a house and land sale (in his wife's name) using their bank in the UK, while they are still living and working in the UK.

No UK bank will allow security of a non-EC property for a loan. If you know of one, feel free to share...

[honkin]

Who exactly are you going to rent it too? There are 1000's of vacant condos in this city , why is yours going to be any different?.

I didn't realise the Bangkok rental scene was in that much distress. There's always plenty of new condos going up and they can't all be bought to live in. For ages my wife and I have stayed in beautful serviced condos when we come to Bangkok and just thought this was pretty normal. I always thought that quality rented in any market. I know in Melbourne, our rental properties have not had more than a day or 2 of vacancy in 5 years. This is due to prime location and excellent renovating and decorating. Dogs don't rent no matter what the market is like.

Our plan was to purchase it initially for investment purposes, leaving it in the hands of a decent agent (yeah, I know - not so easy to find). We weren't looking for residential occupation, but more business travellers and holiday makers not wishing to stay in a hotel. Down the track (retirement in 10 years) we would move over and take up residence ourselves.

If this appears to be impossible, well I guess we would wait until retirement and move over, purchasing a place when we come.

Can others confirm what Simmo says about 1,000s of condos being currently vacant in the city? This may change our perspective immeasurably.

Cheers

[Irene]

Who exactly are you going to rent it too? There are 1000's of vacant condos in this city , why is yours going to be any different?.

I didn't realise the Bangkok rental scene was in that much distress. There's always plenty of new condos going up and they can't all be bought to live in. For ages my wife and I have stayed in beautful serviced condos when we come to Bangkok and just thought this was pretty normal. I always thought that quality rented in any market. I know in Melbourne, our rental properties have not had more than a day or 2 of vacancy in 5 years. This is due to prime location and excellent renovating and decorating. Dogs don't rent no matter what the market is like.

Our plan was to purchase it initially for investment purposes, leaving it in the hands of a decent agent (yeah, I know - not so easy to find). We weren't looking for residential occupation, but more business travellers and holiday makers not wishing to stay in a hotel. Down the track (retirement in 10 years) we would move over and take up residence ourselves.

If this appears to be impossible, well I guess we would wait until retirement and move over, purchasing a place when we come.

Can others confirm what Simmo says about 1,000s of condos being currently vacant in the city? This may change our perspective immeasurably.

Cheers

honkin,

That 1,000s vacancy is a generalised statement. The whole point is location. You have to pick the one that will be scarced in ten-year time. I would pick areas that the expats like to frequent, like somewhere near to Emporium or Thong Lor area and the condo is near to the mass transit station and well-managed. Even better, if it is also near to a park. These are the factors: sustainable demand, shopping, travelling, greenery and management. The most important one is the management. There are not that many in Thailand. As the late Bob Hope used to say, God cannot increase the land area anymore when he referred to the central area of Los Angeles. Pricing of this type of condo could be steep when compared with others. But as time goes by, one day you might feel the price you paid for now is a bargain.

The Lake Condo near to Asoke station, Foodland supermarket, and a reasonable sized park is an example. The condo is situated on the eight-lane road. The place is well occupied with rental fetching 70,000 to over 100,000. The place is under the management of the expats and professional Thais who take pride of the place. I own a few units there. This is the one that gives me so much confidence when comparing with the ones I bought right in the centre of town facing the huge sports club but the management is pitiful. My advice is to visit places and be nice to the receptionists to learn of the stage of the management or sit around and see how efficient or how pitiful it could be. Don't trust the estate agent of any level to make the choice for you. This is not London or Sydney.

[rak sa_ngop]

honkin,

That 1,000s vacancy is a generalised statement. The whole point is location. You have to pick the one that will be scarced in ten-year time. I would pick areas that the expats like to frequent, like somewhere near to Emporium or Thong Lor area and the condo is near to the mass transit station and well-managed. Even better, if it is also near to a park. These are the factors: sustainable demand, shopping, travelling, greenery and management. The most important one is the management. There are not that many in Thailand. As the late Bob Hope used to say, God cannot increase the land area anymore when he referred to the central area of Los Angeles. Pricing of this type of condo could be steep when compared with others. But as time goes by, one day you might feel the price you paid for now is a bargain.

The Lake Condo near to Asoke station, Foodland supermarket, and a reasonable sized park is an example. The condo is situated on the eight-lane road. The place is well occupied with rental fetching 70,000 to over 100,000. The place is under the management of the expats and professional Thais who take pride of the place. I own a few units there. This is the one that gives me so much confidence when comparing with the ones I bought right in the centre of town facing the huge sports club but the management is pitiful. My advice is to visit places and be nice to the receptionists to learn of the stage of the management or sit around and see how efficient or how pitiful it could be. Don't trust the estate agent of any level to make the choice for you. This is not London or Sydney.

Irene, just out of interest, what are the maintenance charges (baht/sq.metre/month) for this type of well managed condo building.?

Do you think that maintenance charges reflect the quality of management?

Thanks

[honkin]

The Lake Condo near to Asoke station, Foodland supermarket, and a reasonable sized park is an example. The condo is situated on the eight-lane road. The place is well occupied with rental fetching 70,000 to over 100,000. The place is under the management of the expats and professional Thais who take pride of the place. I own a few units there.

Hi Irene

Thanks for your reply. Nice to hear from an owner on the situation at present.

I guess it's the same as anywhere - Location, Location, Location. Although it also sounds like management is of vital importance. Picking an area that suits will be more difficult from here in Melbourne. I had visions of sifting through 30 or 40 possibilities and narrowing it down to 6 or 7 to view when we fly over in October.

We are lucky enough to have a handful of good friends living in Bangkok, so may be able to have them advise on suitable sites. It's easy to spot a nice building walking distance from BTS or MRT, but parks and suitable shops are not so easy to locate when not there.

Not really that concerned at trying to be on the river, but transport is a big must.

I looked for The Lake Condo on the web to get an idea of what the building is like, but I am unable to find it. Is there a website for it?

Are yours rented long term residential, or do you have them go short term to holiday makers, business professionals and the like?

Any other pitfalls or things to watch out for that I should know? Also, do you know of a reputable agent for the purchase?

Thanks once again for your insight.

[Irene]

honkin,

That 1,000s vacancy is a generalised statement. The whole point is location. You have to pick the one that will be scarced in ten-year time. I would pick areas that the expats like to frequent, like somewhere near to Emporium or Thong Lor area and the condo is near to the mass transit station and well-managed. Even better, if it is also near to a park. These are the factors: sustainable demand, shopping, travelling, greenery and management. The most important one is the management. There are not that many in Thailand. As the late Bob Hope used to say, God cannot increase the land area anymore when he referred to the central area of Los Angeles. Pricing of this type of condo could be steep when compared with others. But as time goes by, one day you might feel the price you paid for now is a bargain.

The Lake Condo near to Asoke station, Foodland supermarket, and a reasonable sized park is an example. The condo is situated on the eight-lane road. The place is well occupied with rental fetching 70,000 to over 100,000. The place is under the management of the expats and professional Thais who take pride of the place. I own a few units there. This is the one that gives me so much confidence when comparing with the ones I bought right in the centre of town facing the huge sports club but the management is pitiful. My advice is to visit places and be nice to the receptionists to learn of the stage of the management or sit around and see how efficient or how pitiful it could be. Don't trust the estate agent of any level to make the choice for you. This is not London or Sydney.

Irene, just out of interest, what are the maintenance charges (baht/sq.metre/month) for this type of well managed condo building.?

Do you think that maintenance charges reflect the quality of management?

Thanks

rak sa_ngop,

Baht 35/sqm/month. Now they have proposed to increase to Baht 45 which is subject to the approval of the coming general meeting. I personally do not object to that realising that they will be careful with our money. The maintenance charges reflect the management quality. Another condo has a huge sinking fund and they forever modify the lobby just like some five-star hotels. The benefits are worth it. Another condo is so stingy with no rise for years because they believe that according to their rules no rise is possible. The place is really shabby and bad morale of the staff. Theft is reported every now and then. Fortunately, the structure of this place must be the best in town with most units with four bedrooms which is rare. So finding tenants is not that difficult.

[think_too_mut]

honkin,

That 1,000s vacancy is a generalised statement. The whole point is location. You have to pick the one that will be scarced in ten-year time. I would pick areas that the expats like to frequent, like somewhere near to Emporium or Thong Lor area and the condo is near to the mass transit station and well-managed. Even better, if it is also near to a park. These are the factors: sustainable demand, shopping, travelling, greenery and management. The most important one is the management. There are not that many in Thailand. As the late Bob Hope used to say, God cannot increase the land area anymore when he referred to the central area of Los Angeles. Pricing of this type of condo could be steep when compared with others. But as time goes by, one day you might feel the price you paid for now is a bargain.

The Lake Condo near to Asoke station, Foodland supermarket, and a reasonable sized park is an example. The condo is situated on the eight-lane road. The place is well occupied with rental fetching 70,000 to over 100,000. The place is under the management of the expats and professional Thais who take pride of the place. I own a few units there. This is the one that gives me so much confidence when comparing with the ones I bought right in the centre of town facing the huge sports club but the management is pitiful. My advice is to visit places and be nice to the receptionists to learn of the stage of the management or sit around and see how efficient or how pitiful it could be. Don't trust the estate agent of any level to make the choice for you. This is not London or Sydney.

Irene, just out of interest, what are the maintenance charges (baht/sq.metre/month) for this type of well managed condo building.?

Do you think that maintenance charges reflect the quality of management?

Thanks

rak sa_ngop,

Baht 35/sqm/month. Now they have proposed to increase to Baht 45 which is subject to the approval of the coming general meeting. I personally do not object to that realising that they will be careful with our money. The maintenance charges reflect the management quality. Another condo has a huge sinking fund and they forever modify the lobby just like some five-star hotels. The benefits are worth it. Another condo is so stingy with no rise for years because they believe that according to their rules no rise is possible. The place is really shabby and bad morale of the staff. Theft is reported every now and then. Fortunately, the structure of this place must be the best in town with most units with four bedrooms which is rare. So finding tenants is not that difficult.

An average place, could be top of the lower half of apartments (qualitywise) that we rent has maintenance fee of 85B per sqm per month.

We know that as the invoices were put in our mail box. The landlord pays that (from us, through the rent).

What 35-45B maintenance fee in such a good place means is beyond me. Must be thousands of 4 bed apartments in a complex to support that kind of low levies.

Or, in my case, 570 apartment owners (Thai) and 17 farang are all being robbed blind?

Edit: picked 4 beds from some post, not saying it was Irene's.

Edited May 24, 2007 by think_too_mut

[Irene]

honkin,

That 1,000s vacancy is a generalised statement. The whole point is location. You have to pick the one that will be scarced in ten-year time. I would pick areas that the expats like to frequent, like somewhere near to Emporium or Thong Lor area and the condo is near to the mass transit station and well-managed. Even better, if it is also near to a park. These are the factors: sustainable demand, shopping, travelling, greenery and management. The most important one is the management. There are not that many in Thailand. As the late Bob Hope used to say, God cannot increase the land area anymore when he referred to the central area of Los Angeles. Pricing of this type of condo could be steep when compared with others. But as time goes by, one day you might feel the price you paid for now is a bargain.

The Lake Condo near to Asoke station, Foodland supermarket, and a reasonable sized park is an example. The condo is situated on the eight-lane road. The place is well occupied with rental fetching 70,000 to over 100,000. The place is under the management of the expats and professional Thais who take pride of the place. I own a few units there. This is the one that gives me so much confidence when comparing with the ones I bought right in the centre of town facing the huge sports club but the management is pitiful. My advice is to visit places and be nice to the receptionists to learn of the stage of the management or sit around and see how efficient or how pitiful it could be. Don't trust the estate agent of any level to make the choice for you. This is not London or Sydney.

Irene, just out of interest, what are the maintenance charges (baht/sq.metre/month) for this type of well managed condo building.?

Do you think that maintenance charges reflect the quality of management?

Thanks

rak sa_ngop,

Baht 35/sqm/month. Now they have proposed to increase to Baht 45 which is subject to the approval of the coming general meeting. I personally do not object to that realising that they will be careful with our money. The maintenance charges reflect the management quality. Another condo has a huge sinking fund and they forever modify the lobby just like some five-star hotels. The benefits are worth it. Another condo is so stingy with no rise for years because they believe that according to their rules no rise is possible. The place is really shabby and bad morale of the staff. Theft is reported every now and then. Fortunately, the structure of this place must be the best in town with most units with four bedrooms which is rare. So finding tenants is not that difficult.

An average place, could be top of the lower half of apartments (qualitywise) that we rent has maintenance fee of 85B per sqm per month.

We know that as the invoices were put in our mail box. The landlord pays that (from us, through the rent).

What 35-45B maintenance fee in such a good place means is beyond me. Must be thousands of 4 bed apartments in a complex to support that kind of low levies.

Or, in my case, 570 apartment owners (Thai) and 17 farang are all being robbed blind?

Edit: picked 4 beds from some post, not saying it was Irene's.

think_too_mut,

If it is truly B85/sqm/month and not for optical reason to the tenant, then it is the highest I have ever seen. Then your last paragraph seems to be correct. Believe me, I am an avid investor in this field since the first condo was built in Bangkok.

[rak sa_ngop]

Baht 35/sqm/month. Now they have proposed to increase to Baht 45 which is subject to the approval of the coming general meeting. I personally do not object to that realising that they will be careful with our money. The maintenance charges reflect the management quality. Another condo has a huge sinking fund and they forever modify the lobby just like some five-star hotels. The benefits are worth it. Another condo is so stingy with no rise for years because they believe that according to their rules no rise is possible. The place is really shabby and bad morale of the staff. Theft is reported every now and then. Fortunately, the structure of this place must be the best in town with most units with four bedrooms which is rare. So finding tenants is not that difficult.

I also pay 35 baht/sqm/month for a well maintained building in Silom. Not quite the top luxury end of the market (no large airconditioned entrance hall etc) but management and security staff all very cheerful. This seems to be in-line with your 35 - 45 baht figure. (The 85 baht figure think_too_mut quotes is suspicious. Maybe it includes rental service charges?)

[think_too_mut]

Baht 35/sqm/month. Now they have proposed to increase to Baht 45 which is subject to the approval of the coming general meeting. I personally do not object to that realising that they will be careful with our money. The maintenance charges reflect the management quality. Another condo has a huge sinking fund and they forever modify the lobby just like some five-star hotels. The benefits are worth it. Another condo is so stingy with no rise for years because they believe that according to their rules no rise is possible. The place is really shabby and bad morale of the staff. Theft is reported every now and then. Fortunately, the structure of this place must be the best in town with most units with four bedrooms which is rare. So finding tenants is not that difficult.

I also pay 35 baht/sqm/month for a well maintained building in Silom. Not quite the top luxury end of the market (no large airconditioned entrance hall etc) but management and security staff all very cheerful. This seems to be in-line with your 35 - 45 baht figure. (The 85 baht figure think_too_mut quotes is suspicious. Maybe it includes rental service charges?)

It does have not 1 but 2 (for each tower) entrances like 5* hotel, with leather lounges, cushions, fishpond and other unnecessary things.

Not sure if it includes rental service charges, possibly. I rent from the building developer (who manage the building now). I rememer that the agent got 1 month rent as his incentive. Don't know how much they charge now, in Oz it was 13 of the rent. In that case even 85B sqm would still be 70B sqm.

From another site ( isaara development) , they say:

"The maintenance fee for the project is set at Bt45 a square metre, while the sinking fund is Bt600 a square metre. These charges are at the higher end of the spectrum, but they are justified as adequate funding is needed to keep the estate in good condition.

As there are only 69 residences, buyers need to chip in a bit more to ensure enough money is collected to pay for facilities and upkeep of the swimming pool, gym, lobby and security. "

That's 105B sqm ands probably more if rented through the building...so, my 85B that might include rental services fee is not impossible.

[palm]

Who exactly are you going to rent it too? There are 1000's of vacant condos in this city , why is yours going to be any different?.

I didn't realise the Bangkok rental scene was in that much distress. There's always plenty of new condos going up and they can't all be bought to live in.

Go for a good building, good location and good management and you'll do well. Same as in any other major city.

You should ignore the negative posters on here who can't afford to own anything decent here anyway; and if they rent, its in the sub 10,000baht a month category.

Good luck and enjoy Bangkok!

[Irene]

The Lake Condo near to Asoke station, Foodland supermarket, and a reasonable sized park is an example. The condo is situated on the eight-lane road. The place is well occupied with rental fetching 70,000 to over 100,000. The place is under the management of the expats and professional Thais who take pride of the place. I own a few units there.

Hi Irene

Thanks for your reply. Nice to hear from an owner on the situation at present.

I guess it's the same as anywhere - Location, Location, Location. Although it also sounds like management is of vital importance. Picking an area that suits will be more difficult from here in Melbourne. I had visions of sifting through 30 or 40 possibilities and narrowing it down to 6 or 7 to view when we fly over in October.

Hi, honker,

In Bangkok, location is not supreme. Management is also important. I have one unit in the prime area, near to the park, station, etc. but has a team of weak management, to the extent that we have poor occupancy rate. I am somewhat sceptical of the idea of setting oneself a deadline of having to commit the purchase when one is in Thailand for three weeks. Rushing is not a good thing.

We are lucky enough to have a handful of good friends living in Bangkok, so may be able to have them advise on suitable sites. It's easy to spot a nice building walking distance from BTS or MRT, but parks and suitable shops are not so easy to locate when not there.

In Bangkok, there are only a handful of parks. It is only a bonus if one is near there but not a determining point.

Not really that concerned at trying to be on the river, but transport is a big must.

You would have hard time in finding tenants for a condo near to the river. Transportation from that area is atrocious.

I looked for The Lake Condo on the web to get an idea of what the building is like, but I am unable to find it. Is there a website for it?

There is no website of the Lake Condo. All the units were sold out a few years ago. There are a few units offered by the unitholders for sale. You have to ask the receptionists at the Lake. The Lake's telephone number is 662 2612248

Are yours rented long term residential, or do you have them go short term to holiday makers, business professionals and the like?

Our are all long term rental of at least one year.

Any other pitfalls or things to watch out for that I should know? Also, do you know of a reputable agent for the purchase?

When buying an occupied unit with tenant, one should be certain of the agreement on the future rental income and return of security deposits as paid by the tenant. In the case of a new unit, Thailand has no escrow account, the risk is with the buyer until the date of completion. Therefore, the chance of completion should also be evaluated by the buyer.

I would not dare to recommend any agent to any one since they are so many freelance agents who are gunning for their 3% commissions. There will be so many offering you the services when you start scouting around for the unit. It is you who has to make a right decision through refining some of their words. On the whole, they are quite sincere with their words but through their eagerness they can be less independent in their advices. You certainly need to talk to your friends a lot.

Thanks once again for your insight.

[london]

As an investor in Bangkok, with a number of condominiums, I would agee with most of what has been said previously, except for the generalisation of thousands of apartments being vacant.

I would also hasten to add that you should forget your 3 week timetable. Buy in haste, regret at leisure.

Also, you mention that you are looking to move here later.....in retirement ? A question: apart from your fairly frequent visists, have you actually stayed here for an extended period? Before you commit, I would strongly advise you to do so.

I live on the river and have never experienced problems with transport. But it depends "where" on the river you may want to look at.

Irene's figures are accurate. I am paying on average 39baht psm per month maintenance fee. It is a well managed and well presented condo.

The vast majority of farangs prefer the Sukumvit area...again because of transport being closer (and therefore quicker to get to their places of employment) and of the nightlife. The prices of good quality condo there reflects that.

My first purchase in 1998 was a one b/r in a 5 star condo at 2.85 million baht. That unit returns around 9.8% GROSS. After CAM fees: around 8.9%. However, later purchases are returning 7% NETT. Its OK, but nothing wonderful. But better than Melbourne (where I also own units) and I'm getting 4.7%, or Sydney at 3.5% !!!!

The most important thing is to thoroughly do your homework.

Oh, financing? Do it in Australia is my view. Use your equity in property there.

Don't be put off by negative posts. Really, do your own homework. You'll soon enough find the true situation here.

Good luck !

[ThaiGoon]

BRT which will run on RamaIII road is being built. It should become operational by early next year and should be able to alleviate some traffic problems around the Chao Praya river area. BRT will be linked to BTS as well.

[AlexLah]

Hi Thaigoon,

As for the new BRT line would it not create more traffic problems?

As the BRT will use a seperate lane, it means normal traffic will have to do with one lane less?

Not sure.....

Alex

[ThaiGoon]

As for the new BRT line would it not create more traffic problems?

It could, if people don't use it (obviously.)

[honkin]

As an investor in Bangkok, with a number of condominiums, I would agee with most of what has been said previously, except for the generalisation of thousands of apartments being vacant.

I would also hasten to add that you should forget your 3 week timetable. Buy in haste, regret at leisure.

Also, you mention that you are looking to move here later.....in retirement ? A question: apart from your fairly frequent visists, have you actually stayed here for an extended period? Before you commit, I would strongly advise you to do so.

I live on the river and have never experienced problems with transport. But it depends "where" on the river you may want to look at.

Irene's figures are accurate. I am paying on average 39baht psm per month maintenance fee. It is a well managed and well presented condo.

The vast majority of farangs prefer the Sukumvit area...again because of transport being closer (and therefore quicker to get to their places of employment) and of the nightlife. The prices of good quality condo there reflects that.

My first purchase in 1998 was a one b/r in a 5 star condo at 2.85 million baht. That unit returns around 9.8% GROSS. After CAM fees: around 8.9%. However, later purchases are returning 7% NETT. Its OK, but nothing wonderful. But better than Melbourne (where I also own units) and I'm getting 4.7%, or Sydney at 3.5% !!!!

The most important thing is to thoroughly do your homework.

Oh, financing? Do it in Australia is my view. Use your equity in property there.

Don't be put off by negative posts. Really, do your own homework. You'll soon enough find the true situation here.

Good luck !

Thanks heaps for your input, london. Your figures and insight are greatly appreciated.

I think you're right about the 3 weeks. Not really long enough to make a decision. It will at least allow us to view a few properties, though.

We have not stayed in Thailand longer than 2 months or so before, but have been almost everywhere from Isaan to Had Yai and the north. We have many Thai friends and do love the place. Our retirement will be when we are still young enough to do some travelling (we hope), so Bangkok will really be just a great base for that. We will also keep our place in Melbourne, so at times we will be split between the 2.

Your figure for returns in Melbourne is pretty much spot on. We get just over that at close to 4.9%. I'd be more than happy with 7% return as that will positively gear the place, meaning it costs us nothing to eventually own. Plus, as an investment property (at least at first) our trips to Thailand during that phase of the property would be tax deductible. I always love being able to claim a holiday.

I guess that a well maintained building should be reasonably easy to spot, just due to its condition. Then speaking to some of the people in the building would help get a further idea of the quality of the management.

Thanks again for your advice. It is invaluable, as we really do not know the market there at all.

Cheers

[london]

You are welcome.

Your 3 weeks will definitely allow a good look around.

Don't waste your time looking at anything under a 5 star development/building. The lower priced places tend to deteriorate at a rapid rate due to the cheaper CAM (Maintenance) fees...an the consequent lack of up keep. There are a number of members here who own in 5 star developments and I'm sure that they would back up what I am saying.

Mmmm, 2 months in Thailand is very different than 2 months in Bangkok. I would urge you to try to do this once....that will tell you if Bangkok is the correct place for you. Personally, I have found Bangkok like a virus....once you've been bitten, its with you for life. It is a city that IS improving. It is a great hub for travel, medical facilities (if you can afford them) are world class, and of course the people and the food.

The fact that you already have friends here is a plus. Also, speak with them about your plans and get their input.

I would agree 100% about keeping your place in MEL. Good move. It will allow you to return if you ever feel the need or desire.

Be VERY careful re Tax Deductability. I would suggest caution. Certainly, if you are positively gearing it, you really won't have a claim for a tax deduction, unless perhaps for depreciation/ property inspection. Talk to an accountant who is conversant with overseas real estate investments.....particularly those in SE Asia. Err on the side of caution and conservatism.

Yes, you will be able to find good developments.....but remember the old saying: location, location, location. Proximity to transport (BTS etc), shopping, dining etc is a real necessity. I would suggest that certanly around $200,000 AU (approx 5 million baht) that you'll be able to get a good 1 bedroom condo. Around 60-65 square meters. Certainly, anything larger will start to escalate rapidly in cost, particulartly if its a 5 star building. As I mentioned before, there are a few members of this site who are more up to date with recent purchasing, and perhaps they would care to share their experiences with you.

Oh, use a good lawyer. You wouldn't buy property in Australia without one, so do the same here.

You'll do well, I'm sure.

Good luck !!!

[cosmont]

Nobody talked about the Condominium Act.

If a foreigner want to buy a condo in Thailand, the property must be paid cash and the money must be transfer from a bank located outside Thailand...

[coops]

Nobody talked about the Condominium Act.

If a foreigner want to buy a condo in Thailand, the property must be paid cash and the money must be transfer from a bank located outside Thailand...

Yes,

As in you get your bank abroad (Australia, UK, Jersey, whatever) to wire in the money (cash or obviously 'cash' from mortgage etc) to your bank in Thailand, with the appropriate paperwork (careful 'bout that!).

As I have an HSBC account in Bangkok, it was straightforward enough to arrange this from HSBC Jersey...

If you're using Standard Chartered in Aus then would be worth having a word in Bangkok with them while you're over here (and discussing it in Aus too beforehand).

Coops

[Scott123]

Did anyone check out any old condo in BKK that are 15+ years old? even if those are 5-star (or used to be 5-star), I wonder what they are like now. It seems like everybody is looking at new development, but what happen to those old buildings? Remember, you don't have any gain until you sell the property. If the old condo are in such condition that you can not easily sell it, or you would not live in it yourself, what good is it? buy it with cash up front and then collect rent only to recover your investment cost?

[Irene]

Did anyone check out any old condo in BKK that are 15+ years old? even if those are 5-star (or used to be 5-star), I wonder what they are like now. It seems like everybody is looking at new development, but what happen to those old buildings? Remember, you don't have any gain until you sell the property. If the old condo are in such condition that you can not easily sell it, or you would not live in it yourself, what good is it? buy it with cash up front and then collect rent only to recover your investment cost?

Scott123,

Good point.....there are many like that....but there are also a few that are otherwise......i bought a unit at Taiping Towers, (Ekamai Road) more than twenty years ago, now the apartment can command rental of Baht 50,000-60,000/month giving me a return of 30% on my original cost and can command a resale value of Baht 8 million, a possible capital gain of Baht 6 million......the beauty of this place, (possibly the first residential condo built in Bangkok), is structured with four bedroom units with the area of 250 square metres which is rare in Bangkok now.

twenty years ago i also got another unit at Ploenchit, beautiful location, presently commands annual return of 20% but capital gain of not more than one-fold.....this is due to small condo with only twenty co-owners but no forceful management......

from the past investment on my condo units in Bangkok and Pataya.....only 10% i regret of having bought them......one is a long-term lease of 30 years on the rajdamri road.....most tenants would not renew the tenancy because of the bad management.....another longterm lease unit at rajaprasong road turns out to be extremely successful with good management....few gaps of vacancy period......another bad one was bought while under construction and was denied to view the structure of the unit and found out later on when completed that my unit is partially obstructed by another building. I then realised why they refused to let me look at the location of the floor before concluding the contract. Though this condo is the best any buyer could ever hope for but the unit that I bought have been vacant by more than six months. I bought another unit in the same condo. The unit is facing the park and now giving an annual return of 7% and a possible capital gain now of 15%. The future gain of this unit should compensate my dud unit. Scott123 is right, once you got a few duds you are stuck with, it is painful and would feel disgusted with your bad judgement. Unlike stocks, you can bury your pain by making a quick sale.

The lesson from the baddies is that not only location, location and location for the condo investment but also the longterm quality of the management....i would avoid those developers/majority owners with aims of quick profits who couldn't careless of their longterm reputation and those condos with less than 100 co-owners. With less number to sharing costs and no economy of scale, they tend to face higher maintenace cost but with lesser efficiency. I tend to go to the condos with some western and Japanese interests. Another lesson is never to rely on the sales talk on the unobtrusive view. The pain of the baddies always tells me to take their words only at face value.

[thaigene2]

You can only get a loan from a Thai bank (mortgage) if you have Permanent Residency - something difficult to get - you need to live here and contribute to Thailand in some way or other.

Once upon a time you could borrow money from Bangkok Bank in Singapore. But they got spooked a while back and suspended the programme (actually they increased the minimum lending amount to 12 million baht and you had to repay in 8 years). Not sure if they've eased up on that or not.

You may be able to secure a loan in Aus using your main residence as collatoral.

As for renting it, as they say, a place will always rent if the price is right. That means undercutting the competition. So if you need the rental income to pay back the loan, forget it (unless it's a small loan).

There has been bubble building here with Thais rushing out to buy the middle-price A and B condo projects. That's why they all seem to be "sold out". Here in Thailand you need only put down a 40 or 50,000 baht deposit on a new project, then you pay around 10,000 per month for 15 months while the place gets built - lotsof time to try to sell to someone else for a profit (flip it). The idea is to get rid of it before its finished - cause that's when the remaining 80% comes due. (Amazing - but that's how it works).

Many of these "buyers" that I've spoken to (i.e. around 6 people) think they're going to sell to farangs - few understand the govt as made it more difficult for farangs (and other foreigners) to stay in Thailand more than 180- days a year. I think it will take another year or two to see how all this shakes out..

Meantime, there's a guy named Mark Holt who posts here a bit - the only realistic broker I've seen post replies here. If you search thesite you'll find his posts and contacts.

Good luck. Find out about the visas first and the requirements etc..

[samran]

The only other thing that I've noticed here, and it is a perception which developed as I looked around for a place, was that Thai's don't like buying second hand properties, and very rarely rent off others. This narrows down who you can rent to, and of course, at a later point, who you can sell it on to.

This is reflected in the way banks here value second hand properties. In our case, they valued a second hand condo at 80% of the selling price and then offered us to lend 80% of that. For us, it wasn't worth our while as it would have locked up too much of a deposit in what was an illiquid investment. Just my experience though, and on matters such as this, I'm going to defer to others her if they tell me what I've said is just plain wrong.