13 minutes ago, vangrop said:

No jury needed, when you see his face you know enough.

 

If I ever end up in court, I hope I don't encounter a judge who thinks like you

Good to see all the best detectives have retired in Thailand.

9 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

It should every person's right to be tried by a jury of their peers. 

 

Some food for thought:-

 

Juries ensure community representation informs the weighing of evidence and allowing everyday perspectives to be incorporated into judging those accused of serious crimes. They ensure this decision-making is not just the province of elites (like judges) and keeps apace of changing community values.

 

Jurors in a trial also force transparency into the process by requiring evidence in court to be accessible to the average member of the community.

There are other advantages – in reaching complex decisions, 12 heads are better than one; gender and racial diversity are intrinsic, albeit imperfectly, in a jury mix; and, as jury deliberations require jurors to discuss, explain and deliberate, there is an airing and accounting of contrary views, in a process that reflects democratic principles. 

 

https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/business-law/why-do-we-have-juries#:~:text=Juries ensure community representation informs,apace of changing community values.

 

Lay person participation in the legal system is considered central to a healthy democracy. Lawyers play a major role in making the laws in parliament. Judges then apply the laws. If juries weren’t used, lawyers would have a monopoly over the law. Lawyers have their own specialised language in which they communicate among themselves. Including juries in the legal system forces lawyers to use common language.

It’s the collective wisdom of 12 that makes a jury. Jurors bring to the trial 12 times more life experience than a judge. Psychological research has established that personal, subconscious biases can be identified and addressed in group discussion.

 

https://theconversation.com/all-about-juries-why-do-we-actually-need-them-and-can-they-get-it-wrong-112703

 

It's not a perfect system, nothing is, but juries are the best system we have.

 

Much like voting governments in is better than military coups. I'm sure you agree, no? 

 

To stay on topic, what about the Thai judge that recently killed himself over the corruption in the justice system here? That alone should be ringing alarm bells. 

It might be meaningful to argue for juries in the context of a country that was considering scrapping them. But the virtues of a jury system are irrelevant to countries that historically don't have them. Are they supposed to seriously consider upending their system to institute juries?

 

As for juries being essential to democracy, it's all very well for someone from a common-law country to say so, but the millions of people in democracies that don't use juries might just laugh at such quaint superiority.

I remember this case in the news. Would be interesting if he took a lie detector test, but then would be interesting if it was compulsory for most everyone denying crimes in this country going all the way to the top to do it. This would help eliminate a bunch of BS even for corrupt prosecutors and judges. 

Edited May 28, 20215 yr by holy cow cm

If I was him, knew the girl and had been seen with her, but was NOT guilty of killing her, I would also leave Thailand quickly. 

 

I also wouldnt trust the BIB to look too hard for any other suspect, especially when you have a foreigner who fits the bill. Remember those 2 guys from Myanmar who also 'fit the bill'. A quick result, preferably not involving any Thais, is always preferable. 

Rest in peace beautiful Laxami. There is absolutely no doubt that this vile looking psychopath killed this girl.

 

Police also found evidence that Looker bought the materials that were found in the suitcase that weighed down Miss Manochat's dismembered body.

 

Quote

The investigation also led officers to a shop where Looker allegedly bought rocks similar to those found weighing down the suitcase containing Miss Manochat's dismembered body.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2935054/British-man-centre-murder-probe-Thailand-remains-dancer-suitcase.html

 

The only mystery in this case is how it took Spanish police 7 years to arrest Looker, when they KNEW he was a partner in a business in Spain. They could not find him for 7 years in Ibiza and had to wait until he was stupid enough to book a garage in his own name? Guardia Civil police officers, like police the world over, not the brightest bulbs in the room.

Edited May 28, 20215 yr by Logosone

More details from 2015, when Thaivisa reported on the story:

 

10 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

It should every person's right to be tried by a jury of their peers. 

 

Some food for thought:-

 

Juries ensure community representation informs the weighing of evidence and allowing everyday perspectives to be incorporated into judging those accused of serious crimes. They ensure this decision-making is not just the province of elites (like judges) and keeps apace of changing community values.

 

Jurors in a trial also force transparency into the process by requiring evidence in court to be accessible to the average member of the community.

There are other advantages – in reaching complex decisions, 12 heads are better than one; gender and racial diversity are intrinsic, albeit imperfectly, in a jury mix; and, as jury deliberations require jurors to discuss, explain and deliberate, there is an airing and accounting of contrary views, in a process that reflects democratic principles. 

 

https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/business-law/why-do-we-have-juries#:~:text=Juries ensure community representation informs,apace of changing community values.

 

Lay person participation in the legal system is considered central to a healthy democracy. Lawyers play a major role in making the laws in parliament. Judges then apply the laws. If juries weren’t used, lawyers would have a monopoly over the law. Lawyers have their own specialised language in which they communicate among themselves. Including juries in the legal system forces lawyers to use common language.

It’s the collective wisdom of 12 that makes a jury. Jurors bring to the trial 12 times more life experience than a judge. Psychological research has established that personal, subconscious biases can be identified and addressed in group discussion.

 

https://theconversation.com/all-about-juries-why-do-we-actually-need-them-and-can-they-get-it-wrong-112703

 

It's not a perfect system, nothing is, but juries are the best system we have.

 

Much like voting governments in is better than military coups. I'm sure you agree, no? 

 

To stay on topic, what about the Thai judge that recently killed himself over the corruption in the justice system here? That alone should be ringing alarm bells. 

 

It's impossible to disagree with much of that. Apart from the first sentence "It should every person's right to be tried by a jury of their peers." 

I believe many countries limit jury trial to 'serious' matters, and I agree with that approach. It would take forever and cost a fortune to have jury trials for every criminal offence. 

 

Having said that I don't disagree with your sentiment, I can't say I was particularly impressed with the process or people when I did my court service....most of the jurors appeared unable to hold their concentration and grasp key concepts and jury meetings regularly descended into the 2-3 more driven/dominant personalities pushing their interpretation of events and 'persuading' the group towards their personal preferred decision.  

17 minutes ago, biggles45 said:

If I was him, knew the girl and had been seen with her, but was NOT guilty of killing her, I would also leave Thailand quickly. 

 

 

Me too, whether I'd done it or not.

I certainly wouldn't trust the Thai police not to 'torture' a confession out of me.

Edited May 28, 20215 yr by BritManToo

Sickening to read that this monster appealed to the European Court of Human Rights... Great decision by them to hand him over. I strongly feel for the poor victim remembering the CCTV shots of her walking off with him hand in hand, straight to her slaughter... Cases like this make me wanting to be a real life Dexter, making this world a better place by getting rid of such swines before a possibly lax and tired judge would grant them free food and accommodation on taxpayer's cost. Hopefully, he'll get the death penalty. In that case, I'd open a bubbly knowing that just for once, justice has been served.

13 minutes ago, katana said:

More details from 2015, when Thaivisa reported on the story:

 

 

So he is wanted for two more such murders in Thailand. A real serial killer then. What a horrible stain on mankind. Harshest punishment required, life in Thai prison too good almost.

14 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

and other easier to locate Thai fugitives. The evidence presented seems to indicate this guy deserves extradition to face trial. Some Thais on the run from Thai justice are easily located but nothing happens to them...

 

He didn't have enough money to stuff the envelopes 

5 hours ago, RobMuir said:

My dad always told me to never trust anyone who doesn't drink.

 

Training for what exactly?

Posing?

 

 

Well Yes,

 

It was a massive part of doormen culture in the 90s and a lot of them used to compete as well as train in the Gym.

 

As I said, little of it impressed me at the time and even after I speak to some of the guys many years later and they are now late 50s and early 60s and many have had heart attacks and health issues all down to steroid abuse.

6 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Right, I was confused as you said you

 

"In the trade it was known as ' Roid rage '  they could be hit in the face with a breeze block and not go down because they were so pumped up on steroids.  

Give me a drunk any day."

 

So you meant you'd rather deal with a drunk customer than a bouncer on steroids?

 

 

 

Yes,

 

You could say that as well.

 

A drunk will tire easily, can become distracted, even sometimes friends can get through to them.

 

But, not those guys pumped on steroids.

47 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 

Me too, whether I'd done it or not.

I certainly wouldn't trust the Thai police not to 'torture' a confession out of me.

Easy in your case, you gotta sleep with a 55 yr old 80kg woman, you'd admit to anything !!,????????

3 hours ago, robbioff said:

Not every hooker is a looker,

But did this hooker love Looker?

And did Looker hack this hooker?

and did Looker look 'er over before hooking her?

 

eternal HELL with super hot flames as described in the bible. nothing less for this man who clearly "appears" guilty even though his face is blurred out. 

 

 

 

This is a huge discussion raging here about Jury v 3 Judges which, because I am old I do not have the time to debate.

What I will say is if the accused  grandfather had been Thai & started a successful

energy drink company they would never have found him

10 minutes ago, natway09 said:

This is a huge discussion raging here about Jury v 3 Judges which, because I am old I do not have the time to debate.

What I will say is if the accused  grandfather had been Thai & started a successful

energy drink company they would never have found him

 

They did find Looker though. It was Thai police that put the machinery in motion that led to Looker's arrest in Spain.

 

It took the Guardia Civil so many years to find Looker that one has to wonder how incompetent you have to be to be a police officer, but then that is the same the world over.

14 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Can judges in the Netherlands be influenced by cake boxes stuffed full of money too?

Daft question.

14 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Why Are you comparing alcoholism with murder? 

mental health issues?

just footage walking away from the bar and dna on his clothes? they need more.
for example, a witness to him carrying the suitcase away, his dna on the suitcase or cct footage of her arriving home with him and him leaving solo with a suitcase.

Edited May 28, 20215 yr by DerbyDan

He’d better get to work preparing a brown envelope, and it had better be a fat one.

18 minutes ago, DerbyDan said:

just footage walking away from the bar and dna on his clothes? they need more.
for example, a witness to him carrying the suitcase away, his dna on the suitcase or cct footage of her arriving home with him and him leaving solo with a suitcase.

 

They have more. Read the thread. There is evidence he bought the materials used to weigh down the suitcase that contained the victim.

15 hours ago, robblok said:

He needs to be locked up key thrown away for doing a runner.

 

15 hours ago, robblok said:

Besides running never made anyone look innocent chances of guilty really high.

A bit naive. Running is the smartest thing you can do in many of these sea countries. You don't have 'rights' and the justice system is a joke. Huge bribes are often extorted. Any legal problems at all your smart to jump the border if at all possible, preferably back to your home country where you have some sort of safe house or property.

See some things work

 

See some things work, the perspective here we can make money

 

are people survivors of the Holocaust

1 hour ago, DerbyDan said:

just footage walking away from the bar and dna on his clothes? they need more.
for example, a witness to him carrying the suitcase away, his dna on the suitcase or cct footage of her arriving home with him and him leaving solo with a suitcase.

It's pretty obvious there is more evidence than is being stated by the media. They're not going to make all the evidence public knowledge. People don't get extradited without some compelling evidence. The Spanish authorities / ECHR would raise concerns if the only evidence was what the OP stated. 

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

It's pretty obvious there is more evidence than is being stated by the media. They're not going to make all the evidence public knowledge. People don't get extradited without some compelling evidence. The Spanish authorities / ECHR would raise concerns if the only evidence was what the OP stated. 

 

Exactly right, extradited means there is serious evidence. Nor would Thai police, notorious slackers, go to the trouble of requesting a search and extradition unless they had compelling evidence.

8 hours ago, Scott Tracy said:

 

Such a thing exists? What about Boss, then?

 

He has an assistant to take his car to the garage.

15 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

almost certain that Thai courts will not consider time spent in prison in Spain as deductible from whatever sentenced 

 

Do you think really this matters? 

 

Yes it does because on average, life imprisonment here is usually 2 decades or less before the prisoner is considered for relocation to his or her home country's prison which further discounts the prison time based on how the duration of life imprisonment is legislated in that country. This man has been in prison in Spain since 2017. 4 years do matter. He shouldn't be given the benefit of a reduction of sentence based on time fighting extradition.

15 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Foreign prisoners only tend to serve 8 years in prison in Thailand, after which they are sent to prisons in their home countries.

 

That's even less than what I mentioned in my earlier post above which is why time spent in prison in Spain should not be counted by a Thai court as time served (and therefore deductible from the sentence) as doing so would further halve these 8 years. An injustice, considering the heinous and horrendous nature of this crime.