Will you wait for one of the Mrna vaccines such as Pfizer or Moderna or take what is available including Sinovac?

[Thomas J]

At present obviously there is none of the MRNA vaccines from Pfizer or Moderna available in Thailand but supposedly they are on order and again supposedly the private hospitals will be able to acquire them.  Will you wait it out to get one of those or take what is available as soon as you can get it.  We are waiting it out.  I might be tempted to take the Astra Zeneca but I don't want the Sinovac.  If I am going to take my chances getting a jab I want something with the higher effective rates.  Also Sinovac is not as widely recognized.  If I travel I don't want to be denied or require yet another inoculation because the country I wish to travel to doesn't accept 

[steve187]

i'm with you on this one, been waiting a long time so what's a bit more of a wait to get the better jab in my opinion

[scubascuba3]

I hear Bangkok is getting worse and people are often not using masks now, friend said they've given up, so if that's the case it's likely to get worse before it gets better so getting a vaccine ASAP might be sensible

[Jajazazajaja]

This type of thing drives me mad

 

the best vaccine is the one available to you. The promise of vaccine maybe/hopefully in the future is just snake oil.

 

do you understand the efficacy figures? All vaccines are about 98% at preventing hospitalization and death, even Sinovac  

[Jajazazajaja]

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

i'm with you on this one, been waiting a long time so what's a bit more of a wait to get the better jab in my opinion

What do you mean by “better jab?”

 

 

[Jingthing]

At this point I would take a jab from North Korea if I could get it.

Vaccines delayed are vaccines denied if you get infected waiting for a better brand.

Yes, they aren't all the same, and some are more effective than others.

But there is the chance depending on research that we can "top up" later with some mixing and matching.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Jajazazajaja said:

What do you mean by “better jab?”

 

 

Sinovac is objectively inferior to Pfizer for example, particularly with the Delta variant. Also Sinovac provides only a tiny bit of protection upon the first dose, you need to wait until weeks after the second dose to have pretty good protection. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Jingthing

[Jajazazajaja]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Sinovac is objectively inferior to Pfizer for example, particularly with the Delta variant. Also Sinovac provides only a tiny bit of protection upon the first dose, you need to wait until weeks after the second dose to have pretty good protection. 

inferior in what why? In terms of falling severely ill and being hospitalized?

 

you need both doses of all these vaccines, pulling out figures for single doses is pointless as everyone gets 2 doses. 

[rabas]

4 minutes ago, Jajazazajaja said:

This type of thing drives me mad

 

the best vaccine is the one available to you. The promise of vaccine maybe/hopefully in the future is just snake oil.

 

do you understand the efficacy figures? All vaccines are about 98% at preventing hospitalization and death, even Sinovac  

While the sentiment may be true for earlier variants, Sinovac is likely to be the first to fall to newer variants. 

 

Hundreds of Sinovac-injected Indonesian doctors contract COVID

Dozens hospitalized as concerns rise over efficacy against more virulent strains

 

This is not the only data coming in, and it's not just Sinovac, but variant vs vaccine is now a legitimate question.

 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Jajazazajaja said:

inferior in what why? In terms of falling severely ill and being hospitalized?

 

you need both doses of all these vaccines, pulling out figures for single doses is pointless as everyone gets 2 doses. 

No. It's not irrelevant at all! Governments including Thailand are making a big deal about targets for getting people at least their first dose. A first dose of Sinovac provides very, very weak protection. Also consider human nature and human ignorance. I can guarantee that lots of people getting the first dose of anything including Sinovac are going to start to feel that they are now free to loosen up mitigation measures. You also ignore the issue of different vaccines effectiveness with variants, particularly Delta. You can argue that Sinovac is just as good as Pfizer until the cows come home, but objectively, it is not. We can say objectively that Sinovac is much better than NOTHING. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, rabas said:

While the sentiment may be true for earlier variants, Sinovac is likely to be the first to fall to newer variants. 

 

Hundreds of Sinovac-injected Indonesian doctors contract COVID

Dozens hospitalized as concerns rise over efficacy against more virulent strains

 

This is not the only data coming in, and it's not just Sinovac, but variant vs vaccine is now a legitimate question.

 

There is a public health and public relations reason to broadcast to the public that all vaccines are equal. Because if people think they are being offered a lesser one, many won't take it. That's a real problem. But there is also objective reality. They really aren't all the same. 

[Jajazazajaja]

2 minutes ago, rabas said:

While the sentiment may be true for earlier variants, Sinovac is likely to be the first to fall to newer variants. 

 

Hundreds of Sinovac-injected Indonesian doctors contract COVID

Dozens hospitalized as concerns rise over efficacy against more virulent strains

 

This is not the only data coming in, and it's not just Sinovac, but variant vs vaccine is now a legitimate question.

 

 

that article actually proved Sinovac Is even more effective than was thought

 

350 medical staff out of 40,000 got COVID and dozens were hospitalized means the vaccine is 99.91% effective 

look at the figures behind the headlines 

[Jajazazajaja]

Just now, Jingthing said:

There is a public health and public relations reason to broadcast to the public that all vaccines are equal. Because if people think they are being offered a lesser one, many won't take it. That's a real problem. But there is also objective reality. They really aren't all the same. 

This is the problem with the world now, people think they are experts.

 

do you honestly understand the efficacy figures quoted for these vaccines? 

[rabas]

 

Considering Thailand's situation, a better option may be to get what's available now and upgrade to a better vaccine when you can. This is my current plan.  Even AZ spaced at 12 weeks vs Sinovac spaced at 4 weeks becomes a legitimate consideration.  Need graph.

 

[Jingthing]

Just now, Jajazazajaja said:

This is the problem with the world now, people think they are experts.

 

do you honestly understand the efficacy figures quoted for these vaccines? 

Baiting post ignored.

You're married to your narrative. Nothing productive can come from further engagement. 

[Jingthing]

Just now, rabas said:

 

Considering Thailand's situation, a better option may be to get what's available now and upgrade to a better vaccine when you can. This is my current plan.  Even AZ spaced at 12 weeks vs Sinovac spaced at 4 weeks becomes a legitimate consideration.  Need graph.

 

Absolutely people should take whatever they can get ASAP, unless there is a specific medical reason why certain people should get one over another. 

[Jajazazajaja]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Baiting post ignored.

You're married to your narrative. Nothing productive can come from further engagement. 

but do you understand the efficacy figures, how they are measured and what they are measured against?

 

 

[wprime]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Baiting post ignored.

You're married to your narrative. Nothing productive can come from further engagement. 

 

I think his argument is that he doesn't understand the efficacy figures, therefore nobody else does.

Edited June 21, 2021 by wprime

[rabas]

6 minutes ago, Jajazazajaja said:

 

that article actually proved Sinovac Is even more effective than was thought

 

350 medical staff out of 40,000 got COVID and dozens were hospitalized means the vaccine is 99.91% effective 

look at the figures behind the headlines 

 

Do you have those figures? Kindly post them.  The reporting is not clear but seemingly most cases are in one district fighting the delta variant, so you need figures from there only.  You also need a control group to calculate effectiveness. 

 

From the article: "...head of the Kudus district health office in Central Java, but dozens were in hospital with high fevers and declining oxygen saturation levels."

 

[chalawaan]

While I wax cynical, I remain teachable, and I have great faith in Thai frontline medical people, who are almost the opposite of the lyin flour exporters collective from the mega new hornet nest thing on the river. Yes, it is bigger than the UN hall and even China's great hall of the people!

 

So anyway... barring some really bad news (bad enough to have a vax sidelined entirely) I plan to take whatever is offered first, without prejudice, and top up later with newer offerings. There's a possibility we may all need ongoing boosters anyhoo.

 

I'd hate to get sick and not be well enough to put the boot in on here.

Edited June 21, 2021 by chalawaan

[Jajazazajaja]

3 minutes ago, josthomz said:

 

And it proves you must have skipped a lot of maths classes back at school. 

 

As of now, all doctors in Indonesia have been vaccinated, there are 146,000 doctors in Indonesia according to Google. 

 

So far 350 of them have gotten infected. 

 

(350 / 146,000) * 100 = 0.2% (rounded to the nearest tenth)

 

Oh WOW, an astonishing 0.2% of vaccinated doctors have gotten infected..... VaCcInEs UsElEsS, No PoInT In VaCcInAtInG , right? 

 

this is the point, this is why we are totally screwed. 
 

It’s like talking to kids who can’t do basic math 

[lopburi3]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I hear Bangkok is getting worse and people are often not using masks now, friend said they've given up, so if that's the case it's likely to get worse before it gets better so getting a vaccine ASAP might be sensible

Everybody is using masks in my area of Bangkok.   And being very careful.   

 

But wife has decided to wait on shot as oldest son had to be hospitalized after getting AZ shot last week.  As both allergic to many medications he strongly advised her not getting shot now and she agrees.  

[rabas]

4 minutes ago, josthomz said:

 

And it proves you must have skipped a lot of maths classes back at school. 

 

As of now, all doctors in Indonesia have been vaccinated, there are 146,000 doctors in Indonesia according to Google. 

 

So far 350 of them have gotten infected. 

 

(350 / 146,000) * 100 = 0.2% (rounded to the nearest tenth)

 

Oh WOW, an astonishing 0.2% of vaccinated doctors have gotten infected..... VaCcInEs UsElEsS, No PoInT In VaCcInAtInG , right? 

 

Trust me, my math is pretty good. But you also must understand the science behind the problem.

 

To calculate efficacy, or in this case effectiveness, you must have a control group that is exposed in the same way. No control group, you can't calculate efficacy.  Your solution is a bit like "some doctors, somewhere, did something ...",  it means little. 

 

Here's how you calculate, Vaccine efficacy and vaccine effectiveness

 

[wprime]

1 hour ago, Jajazazajaja said:

350 medical staff out of 40,000 got COVID and dozens were hospitalized means the vaccine is 99.91% effective

 

No it doesn't.

 

Only if you had a control group of 40,000 unvaccinated medical staff working in a similar context and all 40,000 of them got infected, then your claim would be true.

[wprime]

59 minutes ago, josthomz said:

 

And it proves you must have skipped a lot of maths classes back at school. 

 

As of now, all doctors in Indonesia have been vaccinated, there are 146,000 doctors in Indonesia according to Google. 

 

So far 350 of them have gotten infected. 

 

(350 / 146,000) * 100 = 0.2% (rounded to the nearest tenth)

 

Oh WOW, an astonishing 0.2% of vaccinated doctors have gotten infected..... VaCcInEs UsElEsS, No PoInT In VaCcInAtInG , right? 

 

Actually it shows you never studied statistics.

 

You've made the flawed assumption that they have a 100% chance of developing COVID-19 had they not been vaccinated.

 

To show your ridiculous your logic is, consider the following claim which applies the same logic as yours.

In a longitudinal study of 1000 people who barebacked ladyboys, 2 people were infected with HIV. 2/1000 = 0.2%. Therefore barebacking ladyboys affords 99.8% protection against HIV infection. This reasoning makes the same error as you, it assumes the chance of getting HIV is 100% had you not barebacked a ladyboy.

 

This is why you need a control group, so you can see what happens when you don't get vaccinated/<deleted> ladyboys for comparison.

[Caldera]

Assuming that my upcoming AstraZeneca appointment (next week) doesn't get canceled, I'll take that first, and possibly get an mRNA booster at some point. I'm still on a list for Moderna just in case.

 

I agree with those who wrote that Bangkok will get worse before it will get better. At previous levels (before the 3rd wave), I'd probably just have waited for Moderna and wouldn't have bothered with the government program at all.

[Susco]

1 hour ago, josthomz said:

 

And it proves you must have skipped a lot of maths classes back at school. 

 

As of now, all doctors in Indonesia have been vaccinated, there are 146,000 doctors in Indonesia according to Google. 

 

So far 350 of them have gotten infected. 

 

(350 / 146,000) * 100 = 0.2% (rounded to the nearest tenth)

 

Oh WOW, an astonishing 0.2% of vaccinated doctors have gotten infected..... VaCcInEs UsElEsS, No PoInT In VaCcInAtInG , right? 

 

Following your logic, there are 7.9 Billion people on this planet, and 178 million unvaccinated of them got infected ( take note I said infected not died), so that is a whopping 2.25% of the world population that got INFECTED.

 

Let's mass vaccinate, NOT?

Edited June 21, 2021 by Susco

[KhaoNiaw]

Even in the UK about 10% of Delta variant infections have been people who've had 2 doses of a vaccine. I don't think there's any data about comorbidities yet though. So I suppose the main question for Indonesia would be whether the vaccine has been effective at preventing serious illness and death. Figures seem to show that deaths among medical staff have been greatly reduced and most cases are said to be asymptomatic. 

[gearbox]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

At this point I would take a jab from North Korea if I could get it.

Vaccines delayed are vaccines denied if you get infected waiting for a better brand.

Yes, they aren't all the same, and some are more effective than others.

But there is the chance depending on research that we can "top up" later with some mixing and matching.

Same same...I would take any vaccine, but none is on the horizon. I was scheduled to get a Sinovac jab 1st this month, no vaccines available. Registered again, dead silence so far.

[Thomas J]

2 hours ago, rabas said:

Considering Thailand's situation, a better option may be to get what's available now and upgrade to a better vaccine when you can. This is my current plan.  Even AZ spaced at 12 weeks vs Sinovac spaced at 4 weeks becomes a legitimate consideration.  Need graph.

I have thought about that.  However, given the fact that none of the vaccines have undergone the usual long term clinical and human trials, we are all being test subjects taking just one vaccine.  Now to complicate things, taking two completely different vaccines makes the uncharted waters even more precarious.  I don't think I care to take the chance that the two vaccines may compete with each other with negative side effects.