Will you wait for one of the Mrna vaccines such as Pfizer or Moderna or take what is available including Sinovac?

[connda]

Actually I'm going to wait until at least 2025 or until the Phase 4 trails are complete and the vaccines are fully licensed by the FDA.

In the meanwhile I keep looking at the VAERS database and public testimony.

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/datasets.html
 

James Patrick Anthony Dore is an American stand-up comedian and political commentator (liberal). He hosts The Jimmy Dore Show.
-Wikipedia
Dore received his second Moderna shot an April 17.
Public statements by Dore easily source via internet seach "Jimmy Dore Moderna"

May 15th
"I still have stiff neck…I still have flu-like symptoms, so meaning body aches, joint pains and tiredness that comes in waves."
June 17th
"My cardiologist, when I went and I told him I was feeling — I went in to check my heart to make I didn't have inflammation my heart, which I go in tomorrow for the follow-up to find out, and I told him about, you know, I’m being — that this — from the vaccine, I’ve been having — and he just shook his head, he goes, 'Man, I’m seeing lots of bad reactions to these vaccine, everybody.' Like that. That’s what my cardiologist said. I then have another doctor who’s on the forefront of treating people like me, who are having side effects from the vaccine now, what is this, going on two months after. It has not stopped. And he tells me there’s thousands and thousands of people like me."

[TigerandDog]

When I go for my appointment I'm scheduled for AZ. However, I've also registered for Moderna, so will double down by having 2 doses of each.

[Boedog]

None of the above, l will wait till the human trails are finished 

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, connda said:

Actually I'm going to wait until at least 2025 or until the Phase 4 trails are complete and the vaccines are fully licensed by the FDA.

In the meanwhile I keep looking at the VAERS database and public testimony.

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/datasets.html
 

James Patrick Anthony Dore is an American stand-up comedian and political commentator (liberal). He hosts The Jimmy Dore Show.
-Wikipedia
Dore received his second Moderna shot an April 17.
Public statements by Dore easily source via internet seach "Jimmy Dore Moderna"

May 15th
"I still have stiff neck…I still have flu-like symptoms, so meaning body aches, joint pains and tiredness that comes in waves."
June 17th
"My cardiologist, when I went and I told him I was feeling — I went in to check my heart to make I didn't have inflammation my heart, which I go in tomorrow for the follow-up to find out, and I told him about, you know, I’m being — that this — from the vaccine, I’ve been having — and he just shook his head, he goes, 'Man, I’m seeing lots of bad reactions to these vaccine, everybody.' Like that. That’s what my cardiologist said. I then have another doctor who’s on the forefront of treating people like me, who are having side effects from the vaccine now, what is this, going on two months after. It has not stopped. And he tells me there’s thousands and thousands of people like me."

Cherry picking much?

And very convincing the words of an alleged and anonymous doctor coming from a comedian? In what joke book does he publish the results of his research?

[placeholder]

17 minutes ago, Rinrada said:

hope so however....If...intending to enter EU...

June 15, 2021

Only 4 Vaccines Approved by European Medicines Agency...

The European Medicines Agency (EMA), which is the agency of the European Union responsible for the evaluation and supervision of medicinal products, has approved only Four Coronavirus vaccines so far, which are:

• Comirnaty (BioNTech, Pfizer)
• COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna
• Vaxzevria (previously COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca)
• COVID-19 Vaccine Janssen (Johnson & Johnson)

•  

• On the other hand, the following four are currently under rolling review of EMA, but a decision on their approval is Yet to be taken

•  

• CVnCoV (CureVac)
• NVX-CoV2373 (Novavax)
• Sputnik V (Gam-COVID-Vac)
• COVID-19 Vaccine (Vero Cell) Inactivated (Sinovac)   https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/travellers-vaccinated-with-russian-chinese-indian-vaccines-may-be-unable-to-enter-majority-of-eu-countries/

Actually, it looks like Curevac is out of the running. Had an effectiveness of less than 50%.

[Thomas J]

6 hours ago, joloit said:

Sinovac has been approved by the WHO on June 1. This means, that countries will accept this vaccine.

The WHO has approved it however the list of countries who have approved it is far smaller than those that already have recognized Pfizer and Moderna.  So if a person is looking to take a vaccine, why would they choose "Sinovac" that has reportedly amongst the lowest rate of effectiveness and many countries don't recognize versus taking either Pfizer or Moderna.  

I suppose because Sinovac might be available first is an answer if you are then willing to get jabbed a second time with either Pfizer or Moderna on the theory that you are at least getting some protection.  I don't know how to comment on this other than it is possible that one would benefit from two completely different form of vaccines giving the person either greater protection or alternatively the taking of two completely different vaccine technologies has detrimental side effects.  I don't know which of these eventually turns out to be true. 






 

[itsari]

Russian , Chinese and Indian vaccines are not accepted for entry to EU countries as of the 15th of June  2021 .

I would say Astra Zeneca vaccine is the best option in Thailand if you wish to travel and be offered that option .

Tomorrow the situation could well be different .

Sinovac  vaccine can be the only vaccine on offer for many in Thailand at the moment . Not the worst option to take if you are in a high risk situation regarding covid 19.

 

[Rinrada]

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually, it looks like Curevac is out of the running. Had an effectiveness of less than 50%.

Just  as a Follow on  checked for UK....fio...

The UK has Four Vaccines approved for use:

Pfizer-BioNTech,

Oxford-AstraZeneca,

Moderna and Janssen..Three of which require two doses for maximum protection.....meanwhile..

First Vaccines are now being offered to People aged 18 and above in England, Northern Ireland and Wales and the over-30s in Scotland.   

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833

[itsari]

28 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

When I go for my appointment I'm scheduled for AZ. However, I've also registered for Moderna, so will double down by having 2 doses of each.

Almost sounds like paranoia 

[placnx]

19 hours ago, rabas said:

 

Considering Thailand's situation, a better option may be to get what's available now and upgrade to a better vaccine when you can. This is my current plan.  Even AZ spaced at 12 weeks vs Sinovac spaced at 4 weeks becomes a legitimate consideration.  Need graph.

 

There should be a study of AZ as second dose 4 weeks after initial Sinovac. Before Sinovac subject should be tested for current infection to avoid skewing results. Due to the low efficacy of a single dose of Sinovac, testing before the AZ jab should also be done. Some weeks after the AZ jab, check for antibodies to see how well this worked.

[sead]

21 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I hear Bangkok is getting worse and people are often not using masks now, friend said they've given up, so if that's the case it's likely to get worse before it gets better so getting a vaccine ASAP might be sensible

Actually bangkok is more strict in using masks that anywhere else. In my 4 days before coming to Pattaya we didnt see anyone without masks. Where you in pattaya can see alot

[Heng]

4 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

Your best chance of getting infected will be spending hours and hours on planes and in airports

 

Not worried about that.  Pretty sure I'm naturally immune anyway, life has generally been lucky that way the whole way so far.  Just need to get the jab for the documentation/convenience.

 

????  

[placnx]

19 hours ago, josthomz said:

 

And it proves you must have skipped a lot of maths classes back at school. 

 

As of now, all doctors in Indonesia have been vaccinated, there are 146,000 doctors in Indonesia according to Google. 

 

So far 350 of them have gotten infected. 

 

(350 / 146,000) * 100 = 0.2% (rounded to the nearest tenth)

 

Oh WOW, an astonishing 0.2% of vaccinated doctors have gotten infected..... VaCcInEs UsElEsS, No PoInT In VaCcInAtInG , right? 

I carefully read the entire article cited

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/COVID-vaccines/Hundreds-of-Sinovac-injected-Indonesian-doctors-contract-COVID

It is clear that it was 350 doctors infected in the Kudus district, so Rabas is correct in saying that it is the population of Kudus that counts, or better yet the number of doctors in Kudus. Anyway the population of Kudus is 92776 and the population of Indonesia is 270.6 million.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kudus,_Indonesia

 

If the doctor population of Kudus was proportional to ratio of doctors (146K) versus general population Kudus/national, there would only be 50 doctors in Kudus.

 

[Fairynuff]

15 minutes ago, Heng said:

Pretty sure I'm naturally immune

So you’re some kind of unique species different from every other human apparently.

[scubascuba3]

39 minutes ago, sead said:

Actually bangkok is more strict in using masks that anywhere else. In my 4 days before coming to Pattaya we didnt see anyone without masks. Where you in pattaya can see alot

In Pattaya there's low numbers now which is probably why some people aren't being strict with masks (falang and thai), Bangkok daily count still pretty high isn't it?

[Heng]

1 minute ago, Fairynuff said:

So you’re some kind of unique species different from every other human apparently.

 

No, standard human.  Just generally luckier than most.   And I mean, naturally immune as I've probably been exposed to Covid more than a few times already (hard to prove, just a feeling).   If I had to guess: Alpha, Beta, and Delta variants.  Still keeping a watch out for the Gamma variant to add to my portfolio.   

[suzannegoh]

20 hours ago, Jajazazajaja said:

 

that article actually proved Sinovac Is even more effective than was thought

 

350 medical staff out of 40,000 got COVID and dozens were hospitalized means the vaccine is 99.91% effective 

look at the figures behind the headlines 

How are you coming up with 99.91%?  Wouldn't the effectiveness in that case be 1 - (350 / (40000 * P)), where P is the probability of an unvaccinated person becoming infected under the same circumstances?

[Fairynuff]

3 minutes ago, Heng said:

 

No, standard human.  Just generally luckier than most.   And I mean, naturally immune as I've probably been exposed to Covid more than a few times already (hard to prove, just a feeling).   If I had to guess: Alpha, Beta, and Delta variants.  Still keeping a watch out for the Gamma variant to add to my portfolio.   

I think you have more to worry about than Covid !

[placnx]

16 hours ago, josthomz said:

 

The only reason why there's only 178 million unvaccinated who got infected is because of vaccines, lockdowns, masks,.... Had it not been for that the numbers could very well be astonishingly higher. 

 

On the other hand the fact that 350 vaccinated doctors got infected out of 146,000 hardly has any relevance. Specially when we don't know how many vaccinated doctors have gotten exposed to the virus but not got infected. Provided that we don't have this last variable, there are a million different ways to interpret this data. 

 

One could say the vaccine is 0% effective, because the 350 which got infected were vaccinated, and indeed in their particular case it was 0% effective, right? 

 

Saying that 350 vaccinated doctors have gotten infected, says nothing in regards to the effectiveness of a vaccine.

While it's not a trial result, it is anecdotal evidence which calls for the same sort of investigation that has been done in the UK for mixing vaccines. In that case it was different permutations of AZ and Pfizer. It may point to giving health workers an mRNA booster if they only got Sinovac.

[Heng]

1 minute ago, Fairynuff said:

I think you have more to worry about than Covid !

 

Well I'm not saying I completely rely on my luck.   I still wear a mask, use alcohol gel, wear condoms, and as mentioned WILL get vaccinated when the time comes. 

[Fairynuff]

2 minutes ago, Heng said:

 

Well I'm not saying I completely rely on my luck.   I still wear a mask, use alcohol gel, wear condoms, and as mentioned WILL get vaccinated when the time comes. 

So you’re all talk then ????????

[placnx]

7 hours ago, joloit said:

Sinovac has been approved by the WHO on June 1. This means, that countries will accept this vaccine.

Countries are not bound to admit people vaccinated with Chinese vaccines just because WHO says so.

[placnx]

6 hours ago, rabas said:

 

Thanks. I didn't see the 5000 number but knew it was centered in Kudus. 

 

We still can't calculate effectiveness without a control group because we have no idea how many unvaccinated healthcare workers would get COVID. If it was an equal number, 350, then the vaccine has zero effectiveness. If 1000, then the effectiveness would only be 65%.

 

It is highly unlikely all 5000 in a control group could get infected because medical staff use heavy protection and not all staff are exposed to COVID. So what ever the number, Sinovac isn't very effective against the delta strain, and less so against the coming South African (beta) strain now heading to Phuket!

 

With a high rate of infection in the general population of Kudus, health care workers can become infected from family members at home.

[Antifreeze]

22 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I hear Bangkok is getting worse and people are often not using masks now, friend said they've given up, so if that's the case it's likely to get worse before it gets better so getting a vaccine ASAP might be sensible

My thoughts also. Being in Phuket with opening soon I started to get concerned. There is no telling if and when a mRNA vaccine will be available. I asked Bangkok Hospital a few days ago and they have no idea. 

My Gf is from Issan and needed a lot of paper work to show that she lives in Phuket. Yesterday she managed to get registered for the AZ shot. And doing so they told her for me to come. I did and got an appointment for this coming Friday. 

If AZ is not effective against the delta variant, then I'm confident that they will explore alternatives. And if so, us expats and retirees will end up at the bottom for a booster; after everyone else. So mRNA will be hard to get. 

[TigerandDog]

1 hour ago, itsari said:

Almost sounds like paranoia 

Not paranoia. It's already been proven that receiving 2 doses of 2 different vaccines increases your resistance, especially to mutated strains of C19,  and has a much higher efficacy than 2 doses of either Sinovac or AZ. So as someone over the age of 70 I'm prepared to do just that, and my missus is happy that I am thinking along those lines.

[pseudorabies]

20 hours ago, Jajazazajaja said:

This type of thing drives me mad

 

the best vaccine is the one available to you. The promise of vaccine maybe/hopefully in the future is just snake oil.

 

do you understand the efficacy figures? All vaccines are about 98% at preventing hospitalization and death, even Sinovac  

Maybe.  For me it depends on the risk I'm exposed to on a day-to-day basis.  If frequency of infection goes up enough such that my risk goes up signficantly I might consider the Chinese vaccine. Might.

 

My concern right now is that the Chinese vaccine won't afford much protection against the more serious variants, especially Delta.  The mRNA vaccines seem like they do.  If I was to get sinovac now could I get Pfizer/Moderna later?  If so would the immune response be the same, i.e. would I get the same level of variant protection had I skipped the chinese vaccine and waited for the mRNA vaccine (assuming the Thai government ever allows them in)?  Before automatically answering "Well, yes, of course!" google "antigenic original sin".  If the chinese vaccine induces a mediocre response targeting less than optimum eptitopes, further stimulation with a superior vaccine might just induce more of the same.  Or not.  No one knows yet. 

 

So right now I'm waiting.

[Greenwich Boy]

Full disclosure. I have just returned to Thailand and have 2 Pfizer jabs from home in England.

I have no medical expertise or knowledge but from what I read the vaccines available here provide protection against severe illness and death. Surely this is the important bit.

Just my opinion but take whatever is offered then top up with your preferred jab when available.

[DavisH]

19 hours ago, wprime said:

 

No it doesn't.

 

Only if you had a control group of 40,000 unvaccinated medical staff working in a similar context and all 40,000 of them got infected, then your claim would be true.

These are medical workers, so even int eh absence of a control group, I suspect the vaccine was quite protective to infection. But, sure, I wouldn't put a figure on it. I also don't have much faith in vaccine companies efficacy numbers from thir trials, either. Show me real world data, with millions of vaccines given out. The control group effectively becomes the group who are unvaccinated. It's not that Ideal, but its the best we have. 

[ballpoint]

Am I the only one here who couldn't really give a damn whether I'm vaccinated this year or not?  I'm not anti vax, quite the opposite, and will take whatever is offered, when it is offered, just won't be pushing my way to the front of the queue, or running around in circles in panic, like some here seem determined to do and are currently doing.  

 

I suspect a lot of animosity towards the Sinovac one is due to the four letters at the front.  From all I've read and seen, it does give a better than even chance of preventing infection, which are better odds than not getting vaccinated at all, and seems to be very effective at preventing serious effects should you still get infected after taking it, which is definitely better than not getting vaccinated at all.  As for countries allowing entry or not to those who have taken it, I couldn't give a damn about that either.  After traveling on a monthly basis for most of my professional life, I'm quite happy to remain here for a year or two, or three.  And, given the high probability that "booster" shots will be needed on a regular basis, the argument that taking the Sinovac one is pointless because you'll have to be re-vaccinated with another version later on, is a futile one, as I'll put money on everyone needing to be re-vaccinated (sugar coated by calling it a "booster" shot) later on.

[Lacessit]

I will take any jab except Sinovac. Two reasons:

The dubious value of Sinovac, and the reluctance of health authorities worldwide to approve it.

Taking up a vaccine produced by the same country that unleashed this pandemic on the world, and tried to cover it up, is rewarding bad behavior.